Religion forces science teacher to quit

2012-03-06 15:15

Cape Town - A science teacher at an upmarket Cape Town school has found herself at odds with senior staff over a desire to teach evolution in science lessons.

"I explicitly put teaching natural selection on the syllabus for the year; I made a three week slot; I came with practical experiments they could do. What I discovered was, I was the only person teaching natural selection," said a science teacher at a Cape Town high school who spoke to News24 on condition of anonymity.

The source said that the teachers in the school's science department were mainly Christian and that staff issued a reprimand over teaching the scientific concept.

"We're talking about the head of biology, we're talking about the longest standing member [of staff] who's been there for more than 25 years and we're talking about the most recent member who was trained in a Biology area.

"What he actively does in class is he poo poos the idea [of evolution], he makes kids laugh at the idea of the age of the Earth as proposed by scientists currently. He poo poos the fossil record, he gives what he believes is counter evidence to carbon dating," the teacher said.


The theory of natural selection by evolution is accepted by science as the method by which species evolved to the ecosystem on the planet today, however, evangelical religious groups in the US have lobbied that creationism is should also be taught as a competing theory in science lessons.

"Sometimes the way science is reported and transmitted to the public may cause confusion. Another thing to bear in mind is that perhaps the world isn't that simple.

"Sometimes the world is very complicated it is difficult to communicate science to the public and the result is that some people have a negative view of science and then science communicators then bend over backward to try and accommodate people while they on the other hand, they know it is E=mc², it's not E=mc² plus baby Jesus," psychohistorian Auke Slotegraaf told News24.

For the teacher, she worried that the lack of competent science education hampers the learning of school students.

"I met a Muslim Biology teacher who refused to teach evolution and I met a Christian Geography teacher who refused to teach plate tectonics.

"They [the children] have no understanding of evolution by natural selection," said the teacher.

Parents who had been made aware of the teacher's lesson plans had apparently also told their children to dismiss the teacher's lessons.

"One kid told me that his dad had already told him that he was to ignore everything that I said about evolution because it was a load of nonsense. The parents are preparing them to reject it."

Conservative attitudes have forced many in science into being on the defensive and the source said that since leaving the school, the teacher's lot has not improved.

"So now I find myself out of the frying pan into the fire."

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  • E=MC2 - 2012-03-06 14:11

    ooohhh damn, here we go: In the one corner, weighing in at 5grams (being the worm we all came from)...........EVOLUTION In the other corner, weighing... who knows how much............... THE CHRISTIANS Round ONE - DING DING DING DING

      Leroy - 2012-03-06 14:19

      who cares what anyone says, i listen to the facts and make up my own mind! Evolution is fact, if you believe otherwise please post the facts so i may see your argument :)

      E=MC2 - 2012-03-06 14:31

      exactly, who cares what anyone says...

      Mike - 2012-03-06 14:38

      He doesn't have an argument just trolls to let you know that he knows nothing about the subject

      Sharon - 2012-03-06 14:47

      Who cares ?, I care because children should not be indoctrinated with lies, i.e. Creationism, aka, Intelligent Design, just because it's written in the bible doesn't mean it's scientific fact, if the creationists want their falsehood taught then surely, at the very least, equal time should be given to Evolution which is based on scientific fact. But why stop there, surely all scientific based subjects should be thrown out, instead of Astronomy teach Astrology, and instead of Chemistry teach Alchemy, come on Christians be consistent please don't just pick and choose because it doesn't suit your mindset. I'm sure that most christians miss the good old days when they could burn someone for heresy, such as stating that the earth was round and not flat, and then that beautiful episode when they almost killed the scientist who dared to state that the Sun does NOT revolve around the Earth. Come on christian soldiers abolish any "science" which dares to defy and contradict you, burn, kill, maim all those who dare oppose your unscientific views, as you have in the past.

      E=MC2 - 2012-03-06 14:48

      ah crap - the highschooler jody.beggs returns with his childish non-stop damn the man catch phrase! You finished your homework Jody??

      E=MC2 - 2012-03-06 15:02

      & contradiction of the year goes to... JODY.BEGGS!! *applause*

      Godfrey - 2012-03-06 15:10

      @Sharon Well said. Recognise that E=MC2 is a pathetic troll with no original thoughts. Brainwashed into his beliefs he does not have the intelligence to reason, ask question and see the world as it exists. That he believes in a book that has talking animals, wizards, witches, demons, sticks turning into snakes, food falling from the sky, people walking on water, zombies flying through the air and all sorts of magical, absurd and primitive stories exposes his narrow world view.

      jody.beggs - 2012-03-06 15:16

      @Godfrey my sentiments exactly....

      E=MC2 - 2012-03-06 15:23

      jeeze Godfrey – feelings… hurt. I thought you were more intellectual than that. Just because i choose not to believe the rubbish that you believe, doesn’t make me a troll. Sharon - There's no point in arguing at the end of it all because it’s one of those conversations / fights / trash talking / I’m right & you're wrong things that is quite honestly not worth getting into with the likes of people who roam these forums. You raise your kids how you want to, & ill raise mine the way I want to. Let’s leave it at that & stop trying to convince the world that you’re right because what I do, or what you do, will have absolutely NO impact at all on our lives… think about how you’re making it sound… “ooohhh by E=MC2 choosing to believe, he’s making my life UNBEARABLE”. Come now.

      jody.beggs - 2012-03-06 15:30

      @E=MC2 try stop thumbing up your posts, its really retarded. Damn the man.

      Fredster - 2012-03-06 15:35

      I am glad that there are still parents that teaches their children the truth. This teacher should be fired

      Fredster - 2012-03-06 15:39

      godfrey, you sound like a broken record now...pls zip it

      jody.beggs - 2012-03-06 15:40

      @Fredster69 good troll.. Damn you too.

      jonathancfarrell - 2012-03-06 15:41

      Read FHM!

      jaz82 - 2012-03-06 16:16

      Sean, That is the truth, I have also read all the books etc, and the Quran is the closest to perfection and untouched by humankind since it was revealed. It is sad that us humans must always fight over beliefs, race, sexuality etc.

      Godfrey - 2012-03-06 16:20

      @jaz82 Agreed, the Koran is better than the bible. Much shorter. Also bollocks though.

      J-Man - 2012-03-06 16:20

      @ Fredster: "I am glad that there are still parents that teaches their children the truth. This teacher should be fired" - what a bunch of t*ss. Is that what your magic book teaches you? Isn't it tolerance, love thy enemy etc ?? You are the biggest hypocritical broken record on this forum.

      jaz82 - 2012-03-06 16:24

      GODfrey, dont think its nice to call peoples beliefs bollocks tho.

      Stormkaap - 2012-03-06 16:25

      So God free which part of the Quraan is bullocks.. what is your opinion.. or are you just God free..!

      robbie.crouch - 2012-03-06 16:28

      Some Christians you mean... others like me can reconcile evolutionary evidence with our faith in God, he created evolution... Once you realize that God had a plan for life on this planet it all becomes even more wonderfully obvious that He is in charge. Both at the sub atomic level and the Galactic level. Scientific discoveries just re-enforce my faith.

      Jeffrey - 2012-03-06 16:39

      If the Quran is the best religious book you have ever read then I think you have serious problems, it's full of hatred for "non-believers". Maybe you should read The God Delusion by Richard Dawkins, or The End of Faith" by Sam Harris, bring a little reality into your life.

      jaz82 - 2012-03-06 16:43

      There is a saying "he who believes in nothing, will fall for anything" . I'm not interested is Sam's books

      eric.vanvuuren - 2012-03-06 16:44

      Funny, how religions need to distort reality, to keep their sheep in line. It’s so scary too be a lion, isn't it.

      Karien - 2012-03-06 16:44

      I stopped trying to force myself to believe the bible when I decided that hell cannot exist and therefore had no fear for hypothetical damnation left to push me. No longer did I find it necessary to con myself into reading the bible out of fear and superstition. The entire story in the bible is based on the idea that we need to fear, and thus need to be saved from a place called hell, and is therefore based on irrational fear. Fear is a strong motivator though, irrational or not!

      Bardy - 2012-03-06 16:44

      The theory of natural selection has already been dissproven!!

      Jamiel - 2012-03-06 18:28

      @Leroy - " Besides all these scientific developments, no transitional forms, which were supposed to show the gradual evolution of living organisms from primitive to advanced species, have ever been found despite years of search" read further...

      Lindani - 2012-03-06 19:38

      well e=mc2 YOU should also care when you have a bunch of grown people lobbying to teach children LIES....evolution is a fact thats why it should be taught in schools there isnt an inch of evidence FOR any creation story

      Penny - 2012-03-06 20:03

      science and the unproven theory of evolution are NOT the same thing goodbye teacher

      Sunshine - 2012-03-06 22:53

      "I met a Muslim Biology teacher who refused to teach evolution and I met a Christian Geography teacher who refused to teach plate tectonics." Only religion and dictatorships are so morally corrupt and insecure as to deliberately hide evidence from enquiring minds with such painfully obvious engineering and intent. The more information you have the better chance you have of making the right decision. By all means believe in your God if you want to and by all means tell your children about it. But at least have enough conviction in your belief to let them do what they were born to do and find their own way in life. If your God is true they will find Him themselves. Faith is what it's all about, right?

      jody.beggs - 2012-03-07 00:07

      Was my post deleted because I said Bible crap ? Or because it was getting too many thumbs up ? Damn news24 editing staff.

      piet.strydom - 2012-03-07 04:58

      @Karien - You missed the point of the Bible - Jesus said, by quoting the Old Testament, "You must love God with everything you have, and you neighbour as yourself." I don't see much fear inducement in there. And Jesus said that that is the most important part of the Bible, everything else is built around it.

      Dirk - 2012-03-07 05:40

      Good- Parents should not allow their children to be force fed unproven lies and deceit by evolutionists, who often embrace these theories to re-inforce their own beliefs in atheism. Millions around the world, including scientists, reject evolution for what it is- fraud of the century. Apart from that,until they can "explain" the beginning, you dont go a inch further. Explain how a bang occurred without an explosion and if an explosion "did" occur, what exploded and what set it off. I, along with many believe in creation, and know the Creators name. He baptised me and I assure you, I know Him. There are reputable scientists who concur with me. Read "In Six Days: Why Fifty Scientists Chose to believe in Creation", 2001 and "The Genesis Files: Meet 22 Modern Day Scientists Who believe in Six Day Recent Creation", 2004. And now, sit back an view a misguided and futile attempt to discredit these people.

      Llewellyn - 2012-03-07 06:44

      Dirk, you again.. //The Genesis Files: Meet 22 Modern Day Scientists Who believe in Six Day Recent Creation", 2004. And now, sit back an view a misguided and futile attempt to discredit these people.// Only 22? Why not more? Why do you choose to believe these scientists, and not the other with actual evidence? Is it because they support your conclusion (this is my answer, let's find evidence to support it)? Is it because they are christians? Or is it because you are just too stupid to understand all of the actual evidence provided? Probably all of the above.

      Sharon - 2012-03-07 07:06

      The word "theory" is little understood outside the scientific realm, (pardon my plagiarism of wikipedia...) A scientific theory is a set of principles that explain and predict phenomena. Scientists create scientific theories with the scientific method, when they are originally proposed as hypotheses and tested for accuracy through observations and experiments. Once a hypothesis is verified, it becomes a theory. The term "theory" is a polyseme, even among scientists. While most scientists reserve the term for verifiable principles, others use it to refer to hypothetical frameworks. Colloquially, it is often used to refer to a guess. In the humanities, the concept is called a philosophical theory and is intended to explain noumena. Philosophical theories can refer to a set of principles or a set of propositions.

      Smell - 2012-03-07 07:33

      Bollocks. There should be separation of Religion and State, as hard as it is for Believers. I happen to be a Christian and a Scientist, and I believe that Evolution was part of God's plan. I believe a lot of the Bible is written in metaphor, and that trying to interpret the entire Bible literaly is a futile endeavour - isn't that why there are so many Christian denominations all harshly judging each other? Ditto for different denominations in the Jewish (Orthodox vs. other) and Muslim (Sunni vs Shia vs Alawi vs Ismaeli) communities. People denying Evolution have a big problem, because that is what hard historical evidence and common sense are telling us. People thinking that Evolution can not be accommodated within the framework of Christianity (or other belief systems) are unbearable knuckle-draggers, and teachers like that should be choraled into the religious schools of their choosing. This nonsense has no place in secular state schools. Amen.

      willybegood - 2012-03-07 07:44

      I don't know it all... so i wont be so arrogant as to claim that what i believe in (creationism or evolution) is the absolute truth. The problem with both sides of this coin is that both parties believe they are right and the other is wrong. Religion - which one is the right one? Evolution - theories are disproven and proven and then disproven and proven, etc, etc, etc since science burst onto the scene. And every scientist firmly held the view that their theory is the truth... until another more 'probable' theory comes along. The issue is the arrogance of mankind, be he of the creationist or of the evolutionist mindset. That much is shown in the comments posted here. There is one thing that evolution and creationism have in common... both show us that we do not know it all, our understanding of the world/universe/existence/faith is limited and is constantly changing/growing/evolving. Don't be so full of it. Chances are down the line someone is wrong... or both are, or neither is. In the words of a popular song..."PEACE, LOVE, MORE TOLERANCE"

      Dirk - 2012-03-07 09:03

      Godfrey I too was brainwashed, as you are now, for more than 30 years. I know the fear, the confusion, the turmoil that you are going through. I am thankful that I was made free of that- by the redeeming blood of Jesus Christ.If He sets you free, you are free indeed.

      werner.smidt - 2012-03-07 09:42

      @Dirk The people in charge are usually the ones people go to for answers. I think a lot of religious heads are frightened at scientific knowledge, because it usurps them of their "authoritative" position. People don't go to them for answers and thus financial income starts to dwindle. There are examples of established scientists (like David Block) that all of a sudden become these evangelical creationists, but make no mistake: it's usually a result of having a type of god-complex themselves (claiming their words are the ultimate authority) and rarely because of piety. You can't "accept" (insert a better word) science contextually . . you either accept it in its entirety or not at all.

      Nic - 2012-03-07 10:09

      Sean - (March 6, 2012 14:37) You make a great start and list a whole lot of excellant questions that any religious person should really try to answer (even if only for themselves). But I'd like to challange your notions of "purity". If it wasn't for "impurity" there would be no life as we know it and that includes biological or spiritual life. We have a culture which inherits from Platonism (and therefore the puritanical) and think that "truth = the pure", but times are such that we are now beginning to appreciate (as evolutionary theory does) the role of flux and mutation in life. So there is no need to judge holy books by these notions. The Koran is pure only in that it was a revelation to one mind, but the bible's very impurity is what gives it so much appeal to us as an intersubjective library of truths. Please, get over the Platonism!

      Paul - 2012-03-07 11:34

      @ The Teacher .... you mention the "fossil record" twice in the article, but you fail to point out that it does not back up the THEORY of evolution, the fossil record has huge gaps in it and a TOTAL lack of TRANSITIONAL FOSSILS, in museums we have 100 000 000 plus fosils but NO PROVEN TRANSITIONAL FOSSILS .... WHY??????? @Delusion ... or should I say DELUSIONAL ...weak list, a few UNPROVEN fossils but mostly drawings, we can all post links that PROVE nothing, except back up our own point of view. I ask you the same question as I asked the Teacher ... out the 100's of millions of fossils on record why can't you even supply us with a decent list??? @ Sharon here are a few more words that scientist love to use ...go google them ... IF, MAY, MIGHT, COULD, PROBALY, POSSIBLY, IDICATE, ASSUME ... the list goes on and on ... THEORIES ARE THEORIES !!!

      Paul - 2012-03-07 11:47

      @jody.beggs Grow up you childish PRAT !!!

      werner.smidt - 2012-03-07 12:07

      @Paul . . you shout an awful lot. No transitional fossils? That's quite a bold statement . . (I'm way too lazy to look up actualy articles . . and I hated Zoology while I was still undergrad)

      werner.smidt - 2012-03-07 12:26

      Oh . . and Paul . . there is a big difference between theory and fallacy, so rather don't use the word "theory" in a derogatory sense (I assume this by your explicit capitalizing of the word). By your own words you, inadvertently I'm sure, also discount the "Theory of Relativity" by which an observable physical phenomenon, Gravity, is described. The theory of Evolution is not limited to fossil records. It is also governed by subtle genetic mechanics and other environmental factors. Perhaps you should educate yourself, because I think people like "Kent Hovind" have done their number on you.

      Michael - 2012-03-07 12:28

      Who cares? Those of use who have compared the track records of religion and science in explaining the material world. Religion, they sky is a firmament on which the stars are hung, the sun is below the sky and orbits the earth, The moon is the the lesser light source that the rules the night, the earth is flat. Man was created from mud and god's breath. Saying magic spells creates light.Disease is caused by demon possession. Prayer can move mountains. Witchcraft is real and you should burn old ladies. You can cram all the animal in the world onto a 300 cubit boat with all their food for a year, Above the sky are great big vaults that could hold enough water to cover the earth not to mention God's kingdom.All animals ate nothing be leaves once upon a time, Showing pictures of striped things to cattle makes their offspring striped. Donkeys can talk, unicorns are real. The earth has 4 corners where the winds are kept. The earth is fixed and rests on pillars Shall I go on?

      Chille - 2012-03-07 12:35

      @Sunshine, You hit the nail on the head regarding having enough faith in you beliefs to trust that you are making the right choice, even when confronted with information that might contradict said beliefs. If you cannot adhere to this, you need to step up your game, whether you are a believer or not.

      Paul - 2012-03-07 12:40

      @ TheSlip ... as I said we can all use Google is a little for you to ponder over. "But Dr Patterson [a senior palaeontologist and editor of a prestigious journal at the British Museum of Natural History] spoke most freely about the absence of transitional forms. Before interviewing Dr Patterson, the author read his book, Evolution, which he had written for the British Museum of Natural History. In it he had solicited comments from readers about the book’s contents. One reader wrote a letter to Dr Patterson asking why he did not put a single photograph of a transitional fossil in his book. On April 10, 1979, he replied to the author in a most candid letter as follows: ‘. . . I fully agree with your comments on the lack of direct illustration of evolutionary transitions in my book. If I knew of any, fossil or living, I would certainly have included them. You suggest that an artist should be used to visualise such transformations, but where would he get the information from? I could not, honestly, provide it, and if I were to leave it to artistic licence, would that not mislead the reader? ’I wrote the text of my book four years ago. If I were to write it now, I think the book would be rather different. Gradualism is a concept I believe in, not just because of Darwin’s authority, but because my understanding of genetics seems to demand it. Yet Gould and the American Museum people are hard to contradict when they say there are no transitional fossils."

      E=MC2 - 2012-03-07 12:59

      Paul - jody.beggs is a little sh1t stirring troll... all he's good for is splashing his "damn the man" everywhere. Ignore him...

      Dirk - 2012-03-07 13:15

      In Ps 14:1, God says through the psalmist"The fool has said in his heart- "There is no God" From what I have seen and read here, I have absolutely no reason to disagree with that Scripture. And as can be expected, the normal conglomoration of atheists, delusionists, pagans, sodomites, homosexuals,sun worshipers ect, ect have flooded this site to create the impression of widespread support for their misguided opinions. Indeed, it confirms Scripture. Those who tried to present their warped views of evolution, such as Delusion,only convinced the misguided. For them to recognize the fraud, would mean that they would have to swallow their pride and recognize that there must be a Creator. Now that would dent their pride and present them with a challenge, would it not?

      werner.smidt - 2012-03-07 13:21

      Hi, Paul First off, if you're going to quote something . . please use some sort of citation. Secondly, I chuckled a little at "for you to ponder". My dearest Paulie, unlike you, I'm not DVD-trained. Anyway, there is very little to ponder about in that piece. It is clear that the only thing you bring to the table is an offer to entertain your obtuse nature. Possibly you've wished the death/harm of scientists and how you, made expert by Kent Hovind and sites, just know better than a peer-reviewed system. Have a nice day and hopefully you won't encourage your children to pursue a scientific career.

      Paul - 2012-03-07 13:22

      @E=MC2 lol ... yes what a childish little fool he is ...and boring too, well I suppose it takes all types to make the world, every dog gets its day !!

      E=MC2 - 2012-03-07 13:54

      @paul - take his childish insults from where they come... a child. damn the man omw LOL! i cant even type that without feeling stupid!

      Mike - 2012-03-07 14:06

      Right, so heres a ball of nothing, and heres another ball of nothing, i will now make them explode and go 'bang' and it will create something as complex as the human being, which scientists are still yet to discover how the brain works with regards to memory and memory recall etc. Now that makes so much sense, and lets not forget the earth, perfectly set in its distance to the sun, rotates perfectly to create the right amount of gravity etc etc. Im not apposed to 'natural selection' as its an understandable occurance, the brightest bird in the forest gets preyed on first so the darker ones flourish, basic logic, but evolution theory remains just that, theory. one interesting point, the Bible claims God made adam out of sand, scientists have found that when the human body decomposes clompletely it leaves behind 7 different types of sand, so in essence, we are made of sand.

      Paul - 2012-03-07 14:40

      TheSlip All you bring to the tabel is a load of BS and a few insults ... but hey what ever makes your boat rock, it just goes to show your ignorance!!! As for the postings ...hey it was you who tried to show off you super Googling skills , I only posted to show you that we all have Google nowdays, so for every link you post here we all can post one to counter yours , but if you really wanted to debate the matter you'd read posts that not only support your atheitism and evolution beliefs but also the counter arguments... but no that would mean that you'd open yourself up to the chance that you might actually learn something of value. As for my and my families knowledge of science, I'll let you know that I scored a B for matric in science and my daughter won the sciense award at one of JHB's top private schools last year and she went on to score 5 distinctions in Math,Bio, Science, Acc and Eng .. I only mention this to show you intellectual athetists that we Christians are not as stupid as you think we are ...ok I'll admit it my english is quite vrot, but hey we all can't be perfect like you !! I'll leave you with a quote from the Bible ..."Knowledge and Wisdom are not the samething" As for the "citation" moan you had's a tip for you ... copy and paste any sentence in google and it will find it for you ...easy hey!! Maythe Lord open your eyes to his truth !!! Ciao.

      E=MC2 - 2012-03-07 14:55

      @Mike - spot on!

      werner.smidt - 2012-03-07 15:06

      Hi, Paul You started with the insults remember? I see your B, I see your daughters distinctions and awards . . .and I raise you a M.Sc Bioinformatics (Cum laude), TUKS academic colours and all the rest .. oh, and the fact that I'm my final PhD year. I posted a link that directed you to something concise and organized and intended to convey knowledge . You posted a lot of tl;dr to bring across (or force) a point of view (if that). You can't really say I have BS to offer when all you do is send me off to links full of anecdotal evidence. As for the copy and paste for the citation . . it shouldn't be necessary. I did search for it, in fact, but it just brought up a lot of .org sites. Giving you the benefit of the doubt, I assumed (foolishly) that you would give me the original source. Ah, and by obtuse I meant that you're being deliberately stupid (thought it's implied, but no matter). As in, you've made up your mind and just baller along and call anything BS that doesn't bow down to your caps lock. "Knowledge and Wisdom" . . that's just rich coming from you.

      Boeretroos - 2012-03-07 15:35

      Yep, in the beginning things were created, then the Creator allowed things to evolve, thus you get evolution. Evolution is thus founded on creationism. Strange how some things dont seem to change though. For instance - Julius - he could have changed long ago - into a huge brown turd !

      TheMetalWeasel - 2012-03-07 15:49

      @Leroy Evolution is fact now is it? The last I heard it was still called a THEORY. You demand facts from those who believe otherwise yet where are yours? Anyone who believes that something as infinitely complex as organic life can just sprout out of nowhere is a deluded moron of the highest order. I don't know where life came from but one thing that is obvious to me is that if it takes a team of hundreds of people to design & build a car then there's no way that life can just spring up out of nowhere. If you believe that we're nothing more than glorified pond sludge then you shouldn't have any problems believing that a car, house, boat can just will itself into existence the same way you seem to think life itself has. Yet to believe that any of these objects can spontaneously occur in nature on their own is ludicrous yet you seem to think that even a single organic cell, infinitely more complex than the most complicated device or machine we can design & build, can do just that? What in the hell is wrong with you?

      jody.beggs - 2012-03-08 10:45

      @Paul and E=MC2. You can't call someone childish and through childish insults without being a hypocrite. But being Religious you must be used to it by now. So come on E=MC2 get a proper facebook profile and come out of the closet. Or are you really just a troll ?

      Garysyd705 - 2012-03-08 12:33

      "The Roman Catholic Church did not acknowledge that the earth revolves around the Sun until the mid 1990's.

      Soldier Of Christ - 2013-10-01 12:12

      I am so glad to read this article. It gives me a new hope for our children. Evolution is a load of poo poo, and should not be taught, or like they say, if it is taught, then so should Creationism. Why should my child be subjected to the lies of evolution, but the atheists complain that we must not shove religion down theirs or their children's throats, yet they are forcing evolution and shoving that garbage down my childrens throats at school. I would not mind if my children actually had a choice, but in this day and age, with all of the devils tactics and lies, it's getting harder for children to know the truth about God and Jesus. I will not allow atheists to brain wash my children with their lies, when i know without a doubt that God is real.

  • Clay - 2012-03-06 14:24

    I can't believe that in the 21st century we have such closed minded people! Why can't evolution and God work together? People are the issue here...

      richard.hipkin - 2012-03-06 14:29

      Indeed, people are the problem..

      clivecorbz - 2012-03-06 15:00

      Because if you believe in God, you believe that the bible is the word of God. And the bible said that God created the animals in a day... Evolution laughs in the face of such poorly supported statements. Wafting in the middle is for those who know that evolution is true, but still have a strange belief in the rest of the bible, regardless of it being disproven, even in their eyes. Praise be to Science.

      E=MC2 - 2012-03-06 15:03

      speaking of education - homework jody!

      jody.beggs - 2012-03-06 15:17

      @E=MC2 ? What's that supposed to mean ?

      Fanie - 2012-03-06 16:21

      I wish people would stop trying to use the Bible as a science handbook - Who konws how long a day is for God? If you believe in the e=mc2 formula, and then also relativity, then one day for God at speed will be dependendt on how busy he was, ie how fast he was moving to get the job done - from His perspective a day passed, for us ...millions or billions of years Funny thing how the three of the four basic study directions : Physics, Biology, and Phillosophy ( including religion) dont get allong - the only one that keeps out of it is chemistry

      theandystokes - 2012-03-06 16:40

      @Fanie - I find it quite funny how people like yourself always interpret the bible to suit your beleif. You can basically take any verse and interperet to say what you want it to say. Quick question for you, How can there be day without a light source? In your bible the day and night were created before the sun and stars yet everyone knows you need the sun and stars to generate light... Feel free to reread that chapter and interperet it mean what you want it to mean.

      clivecorbz - 2012-03-06 16:42

      How long is a day for God... it's a day... 24 hours... What makes you believe otherwise? Is there somewhere in the bible that suggests that there's a day, and then there's a day? Cause that sounds like you're making up possibilities to fit your belief in God.

      theandystokes - 2012-03-06 16:45

      @Fanie - And another thing, surly the bible was written for humans to read and understand? If your writing a book for humans to understand, why would you write cryptic words that could mean anything? If you were writing a book that all of civilization should live by then it would be plain black and white, right and wrong, not full of grey areas which could mean anything you want it to mean. A day is a day as it was when the bible was written else it would have said something else.

      piet.strydom - 2012-03-06 16:47

      @clivecorbz. In the first place - the Bible is a religuous handbook, not a science handbook. It teaches Who created, and Why he created. There is no ways that science can tell us the answers to those questions. Secondly, more specifically to your post, there is a lot of (unfortunately acrimonuos) debate around what the word "yom" in Genesis means. To keep it short, according to the site, it has been translated as follows in the New American Standard Bible: a

      piet.strydom - 2012-03-06 16:57

      As a Christian, I firmly believe in evolution, but not in Evolutionism. Once you make religious pronounced from a scientific point of view, you are on the same shaky ground as the people making scientific pronouncements from a religious bias.

      clivecorbz - 2012-03-06 17:00

      @Piet A religion that does not stand up to science is a false religion. And why take religious guidance from a book that you argue may not be translated properly? At some stage the whole bible was written as one continuous sentence, in Greek... So either you view that it was written by human hands. In which case we should be extremely cautious to take religious views from people who believed that slaves should obey their masters or people that give their daughter up to be raped (Both of which are mentioned in the bible). Or you view it as the word of God, in which case you're kind've obliged to believe its every word, as the bible speaks quite strongly about doubting God and his word.

      piet.strydom - 2012-03-06 19:04

      Since when does a religion have to be scientifically proven? And the Bible was written in many languages over many centuries. If you have ever translated something more complicated than "I watch the match/ Ek horlosie die vuurhoutjie" you would have some appreciation for the magnitude of the translation task. The Old Testament of the Bible was written long before Greek as a language existed. You should upgrade your knowledge a bit before you join the debate. Quoting one or two stories out of context does not make you a Bible scholar.

      Lindani - 2012-03-06 19:40

      well religion cant go with evolution for the simple fact that the former relies on faith(belief without evidence) while the latter depends entirely on evidence.

      hein.huyser - 2012-03-07 07:45

      Clay, clearly you don't undertand the problem here. have you ever read the Secular Humanist's manifestation? If not, then do so and make an infvormed comment. If that is what you envisage for your kids, the God help us.

      Lauren - 2012-03-07 07:52

      @clive - 2Pe 3:8 But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day.

      clivecorbz - 2012-03-07 08:25

      @Lauren. Acknowledged... So if God created the animals in a day, and man in the next... You're saying that we evolved in 1000 years... That still falls incredibly short of all the evidence we have collected. Had a good chuckle when it was pointed out to me that God created light on the earth before he created the sun... Either the people who wrote the bible don't even know that the sun provides light. Or they believe God had a temporary mechanism to provide light that he deemed unworthy after a couple of "days".

      werner.smidt - 2012-03-07 12:10

      @clive . . .It's not really necessary to be condescending, but I do understand your need to be so.

      Matt - 2012-03-07 14:38

      @clive, let me explain. The spiritual realm, which our God operates in is completely free of time. This is difficult for us to understand as it is a completely different dimension. It would be like a 2-D object looking at a 3-D object. It just wouldn't make sense to that object, would it? Religion is lame, it is destroying my Heavenly Father. Facts are cute, the Truth is Awesome.

      Prom - 2012-03-16 09:24

      @Clay: It remains an unproven theory. Whether compatible or not. Some trollish characters however insist that it's the truth when they can't possible know that even if it was. Claiming we should believe it because they wish us too is like claiming we should believe unicorns exist because it doesn't contradict the bible. Truths are truths and lies stay lies. By lying they are doing the devil's work and proving the bible and God right making us believe it even more and believe them even less. More than that it's only this group of people that claim that God categorically can not exist. They claim to be free from religion but their constant obsession with it proves they have daily doubts. You only try so hard to convince others if you want to convince yourself!

      Prom - 2012-03-16 09:32

      @Clarve: What? Light can't exist without the sun? Now I really had a good chuckle. Light doesn't need the sun, even your own body gives off light! Please learn some science first before trying to bring science into a religious debate.

      Soldier Of Christ - 2013-10-01 14:37

      Andy Stokes... God is The Light Source! Hello! Revelations 21:23-24 says "23 The city does not need the sun or the moon to shine on it, for the glory of God gives it light, and the Lamb is its lamp. 24 The nations will walk by its light"

  • Andriette - 2012-03-06 14:26

    I am embarrased by the levels of religious intollerance and the way Christians (and other religions) bully their beliefs on other people.

      E=MC2 - 2012-03-06 14:30

      which they shouldn’t be doing.... I personally believe that Jesus is our example to follow, BUT, before you bite my head off let me continue: Not ONCE in the Bible did it talk about Jesus approaching people & force feeding the Bible to them. He went somewhere to talk & those who wanted to listen, listened... a little lesson in here for my Christian friends you think? But just remember Andriette, Christians are bullied just as much by the un-believers hey.

      John - 2012-03-06 14:45

      @Andriette. Like E said, 'I am embarrased by the levels of scientific intollerance and the way scientist (and other academics) bully their beliefs on other people.' I do not believe in evolution, but as long as evolution is taught as a viable theory then it's fine. Nothing wrong with science. The issue is when evolution is taught as fact which it is not (hence the ongoing debate).

      Martin - 2012-03-06 14:53

      what is this christianity you speak of

      clivecorbz - 2012-03-06 15:07

      But John, it is a fact. It's been observed. Theory does not mean it is not a fact. You're thinking of the term "hypothesis". Theories explain facts. The fact is evolution. The theory is "through the means of natural selection".

      Godfrey - 2012-03-06 15:12

      And they get all upset when we challenge them. We must treat their ridiculous beliefs and silly gods with respect. PAH!

      John - 2012-03-06 15:22

      @clivecorbz. Micro yes, but not macro. Not been observed. Not fact.

      Thermophage - 2012-03-06 15:24

      @ John ... Evolution IS fact. It has been proven experimentally as well. THe mechanism by which evolution occurs is the theory. People need to learn that there is a very real difference between evolution and the mechanism/s driving it.

      E=MC2 - 2012-03-06 15:26

      @Godfrey - to paraphrase; "And YOU get all upset when WE challenge YOU. WE must treat YOUR ridiculous beliefs and silly THEORIES with respect." You see how it goes both ways? Just noticed what the first 3 letters of your name are... had a good old chuckle!

      clivecorbz - 2012-03-06 15:28

      @John So you do believe in evolution? Just not in dinosaurs? Do you believe that whales have left over legs for fun? That anacondas have remnants of hips, just for a laugh? Or in the case that some birds still retain claws on their wings that match up with the fossil record of dinosaurs evolving into birds, that's just a trick by the devil? Cause then, Sir, I put it to you, that you are a crazy person.

      John - 2012-03-06 15:39

      @clivecorbz. I do not believe that: Whales have left over legs for fun. That anacondas have remnants of hips, just for a laugh. Or in the case that some birds still retain claws on their wings that match up with the fossil record of dinosaurs evolving into birds, that's just a trick by the devil. The assumptions though plausible, are not like you said observed. It fits your world view and not mine. Therfore Sir, me thinks you're preaching to the choir.

      modo - 2012-03-06 15:47

      Um, but John, those things ARE observed. Why would humans have an appendix (an organ still used by rabbits and other distant descendants) if we don't need one?? Was it put there to deceive us? Why do we have strings and strings of pseudogenes, that were directly inherited from our non-human ancestors but we no longer use? Were these feature designed by god to trick us and make us believe we evolved?

      Nic - 2012-03-06 15:55

      Not believing in evolution is on the same level is not believing the Earth revolves around the sun. It is that idiotic. "Evolution has not been observed and is therefore not true..." Seriously? Yet you believe in a invisible omnipresent man in the sky? When was he observed? Or how about that talking snake? Observed that one? Massive flood that covers the entire earth? Plenty of people observed that one? Idiots...

      Ben - 2012-03-06 16:01

      Religion is like a penis. It's fine to have one and it's fine to be proud of it, but please don't whip it out in public and start waving it around... and PLEASE don't try to shove it down my child's throat.

      Thermophage - 2012-03-06 16:10

      @ John's just one example of evolution happening under specific controlled conditions in a lab... Lookup the "lenski Experiment"...or If you dispute direct evidence then you are a lost cause and nodoy should be wasting their time trying to convince you otherwise.

      Throw - 2012-03-06 16:38

      If you believe that evolution is just a theory then you're saying you believe that domestic dogs and cats are just a theory too. Creationism isn't even a theory, it's mysticism.

      clivecorbz - 2012-03-06 16:46

      Throw. God created the toy pom for our amusement. To suggest it came from the gradual change of genetics over multiple generations can be clearly disproven. All you need to do is go to the new breed spawning portals of South China.

      Jeffrey - 2012-03-06 16:55

      @John, The Theory of Gravity is also just a scientific theory, you can easily prove it wrong by jumping off any high builing and floating freely without plunging to earth. All the scientific facts support the scientific Theory of Evolution. Now you don't have to "believe" in Evolution, but keep that belief out of the science classroom, and save it for the religious education sessions, where they can debate it and creationism 'til the cows come home, or until Jesus comes back, if you prefer.

      Throw - 2012-03-06 17:05

      @clivecorbz LOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOL

      Barry - 2012-03-07 09:34

      Religion is a belief, evolution is fact. Simple Facts versus Fiction. If a person wishes to ignore fact over a belief all well and good but that should not deny fact being taught to enquiring minds. Once a person understands evolution they are in a position to evaluate fact from fiction for themselves.

      Paula - 2012-03-07 10:45

      Spot on Andriette...Could not of said it better.Whatever happen to freedom of choice....

      Dirk - 2012-03-07 13:21

      Evolution is certainly NOT fact and there are many scientists who agree and reject the theory of evolution.

      Mike - 2012-03-07 15:47

      @Andriette and e=mc, the Bible says 'God does not force himself on you' and any christian or church that does bully or force it is condradicting what the Bible says, Jesus said love your neighbour as you love yourself, be it non christian, Jew, Muslim, Athiest, Evolutionist etc etc, dont have to agree with any of their beleifs but we are called to show compassion and love.

      Soldier Of Christ - 2013-10-01 14:40

      Yeah, almost as bad as the atheists on NEWS24 hey Andriette. The atheists are way worse! Funny how my children have to be subjected to evolution, yet the atheists scream "Don't shove your religion down my child or my throats!" Yet my children are constantly having evolution shoved down their throats by atheists. Double Standards Much?? Hypocrite!

      Soldier Of Christ - 2013-10-01 14:45

      @ Modo... You say the appendix is useless.... ok. Try again.

      Soldier Of Christ - 2013-10-01 14:49

      @ Paula Exactly... Freedom of choice.. So my children should have the freedom of choice to either evolution or Creationism. I am not forcing my beliefs on anyone, but i will not stand here silent while atheists are disrespectful to God.. A God i believe in and worship. Atheists must also have respect if they are going to command respect. Why are schools forcing evolution on students. There should be a choice. So your question turned on you! What happened to freedom of choice? Please you tell me!

      Soldier Of Christ - 2013-10-01 15:11

      @ Ben When evolution is stopped being shoved down my kids throat, then we will stop too. Ok. Deal? Good, now take your evolution penis outta my face!

      Soldier Of Christ - 2013-10-02 10:47

      Amazing. I find proof from Livescience site, that the appendix has a reason for being there, and Modo and the rest of the peanut gallery are all mums. It's amazing how atheists and evolutionists just ignore posts that make sense or that they cannot argue against!

  • richard.hipkin - 2012-03-06 14:29

    Sigh.... Yaaaawn, bloody religion again...

      E=MC2 - 2012-03-06 14:51

      hey, its a 'hot' topic... you see what i did there <---... hot - hell hahahaha

      E=MC2 - 2012-03-06 15:29

      why the thumbs down?? i made a funny

      Endof - 2012-03-06 16:06

      E=MC2 ...the thumbs down is because you are undeniably, unmistakably, completely and utterly retarded. You are living proof that evolution is capable of producing non-beneficial, non-sensical mutations. oh and not funny either.

      NeoAcheron - 2012-03-06 16:38

      I think the problem is that evolution theory no longer applies to "modern" humans, because it seems that the stupid keeps breeding and living but the smart always "thinks" its not a great economy??? Ever watch a movie called "Idiocracy"? This is where I think Mr E=MC2 comes from...

      SaintBruce - 2012-03-06 19:12

      Yes, it's those religious folks who simply don't understand that a spiritual world exists. I mean, if they did and encountered the living God for real, then it would actually smash their theology to bits! Maybe all of you who think science and Christianity are at odds with each other should take a deep breath, they are not. Scientific discovery is wonderful and has confirmed much of what Christianity has been saying for a long time. Of course there is much about the spiritual side of life that scientific discovery has yet to find. No problem there. perhaps we should sunbject the Theory of Evolution to the test of Quantum Mathematics and see what comes out? From a mircobiological stand point, our current science is unable to explain the intense amount of information contained in the inner living cell and how the DNA was encoded in the first place! It's a toughie, but there is so much more we need to find and there are MANY theories, some have valid ideas but no one theory has got it all right. I have witnessed the power of God and seen Miracles, so you cannot say God does not exist because of Science and man's thinking...BUT, you can say man's thinking and science exists because of God! have a fun evening chaps.

      E=MC2 - 2012-03-07 13:01

      @Endof - lol! that being your argument, i guess evolution hasnt done much in terms of your sense of humour either.

      Endof - 2012-03-07 15:29

      E=MC2, my sense of humour is actually very good. You're just not funny. Humour 101: The fact that you have to explain your humour ("hey, its a 'hot' topic... you see what i did there <---... hot - hell hahahaha") is precisely what makes you not funny! But you're an idiot, so I expected that to go completely over your head.

  • Franco - 2012-03-06 14:40

    I suggest both "theories" are taught. Start of with creationism which should take about 0.35 seconds (to say goddunnit). Then spend the rest of the year (and in my case, the rest of my life) exploring fossils, plate tectonics, space-time, nuclear fission, DNA, natural selection, vestigial organs, mitochondria, black holes, dark matter etc etc. Then let the kids decide for themselves what makes more sense.

      Franco - 2012-03-06 14:41

      Teach science in the classromm, belief in the church.

      Franco - 2012-03-06 14:49

      Evolution is a theory (see definition of theory) which is supported by evidence. Creationism is a hypothesis (see definition of hypothesis) which is why thousands of different versions of it exist - all based on thousands of beliefs. What are we going to teach our kids next - that camel racing is the only true sport no other sport should be taught because camels are sacred?

      E=MC2 - 2012-03-06 14:52

      well what you just mentioned doesnt even make sense to scientists... go figure.

      Franco - 2012-03-06 14:56

      OK, OK you can probably tell that this is one of my pet hates. But I ask you with tears in my eyes - why does a god that created the universe need to be protected from a theory, a curious mind, a simple question, a valid challenge? Unless, off course, someone feels threatened ....

      jody.beggs - 2012-03-06 14:59

      @E=MC2 have you nothing better to do other than troll , Dork. Damn the religious to purgatory.

      E=MC2 - 2012-03-06 15:07

      Franco, dont forget, you're arguing with humans here... not God. God doesn’t need to defend Himself. It’s the insecurity in humans that causes the’ back against the wall’, kneejerk reaction.

      QuintSch - 2012-03-06 15:15

      I agree that we should to keep religion out of the classroom, including the religion of evolutionism.

      Franco - 2012-03-06 15:26

      Quint - you go find me ONE person that BELIEVES in evolution.

      E=MC2 - 2012-03-06 15:43

      wow jody... you're on a roll with your contradictions today hey. Was school tiring this morning?

      Ben - 2012-03-06 16:05

      "Don't Pray In Our School & I Won't Think In Your Church"

      E=MC2 - 2012-03-06 16:21

      single track minded? lol! im not the one "damn the man"ing all day long :-) you got nothing better to say?

      Henry - 2012-03-06 16:28

      Franco what does 3/4 of what you have just said got to do with evolution?

  • Glyn - 2012-03-06 14:57

    Name the school. End of problem!

      Godfrey - 2012-03-06 15:15

      Yes - my bet it is a 'faith' school. An institution for kiddie brainwashing.

  • E=MC2 - 2012-03-06 15:01

    wow, i just noticed the biased undertone in the title of the story! RELIGION made her quit... not her co-workers, or the was religion. Why doesnt she take religion to the CCMA? Does anyone else not see the controversy that news24 are creating? Gotta say, nice sh*t stirring there news24... 10/10 for that one!

      jody.beggs - 2012-03-06 15:08

      @E=MC2 nivr trolling no support for your sky daemon errr God so instead you fall back on insults. What happened to turn the other cheek and judge not lest yea be judged, or something ? You are really a poor Christian and are one of the reason why Christianity is a dieing religion. Damn the man.

      E=MC2 - 2012-03-06 15:47

      its reason's, & you spelled dying wrong. Damn the spelling

      jody.beggs - 2012-03-06 15:52

      Wow your a teacher now too ? Take the plank out of your eye before you try to take a splinter out of my eye ! Or is that to complicated for you too understand ?

      S - 2012-03-06 16:09

      Jody, earlier I said you are living proof of the regressive evolution theory. From your spelling I have observed that the regressive evolution happens a lot quicker than the other way round - your spelling regressively evolved from a few hours ago. Or are you becoming progressively scientifically chemically imbalanced? Damn these scientific observations!

      makesuthink - 2012-03-06 16:18

      @Jody Beggs since you believe in evolution you cannot say damn the man because damning is a christian belief the opposite of blessing. so with you believing in evolution you cannot be insulted if your are called an ape

      jody.beggs - 2012-03-06 16:32

      @Stirrer finally E=MC2 has a dim witted friend. Damn the man.

      S - 2012-03-06 16:52

      Jody, you would be surprised at my intelligence and what I do for a living. Specimens like yourself I usually grow in a petri dish. Damn the fool!

      Karen - 2012-03-06 17:04

      Geez, Jody seems to have a real hard-on for you, E!

      Karien - 2012-03-06 17:36

      @ Stirrer "Regressive evolution" is an erroneous oxymoron. Perhaps you mean devolution or mabe a new semantic angle on revolution?

      jody.beggs - 2012-03-06 17:38

      @makesuthink just like any other self centered bible basher you think everything revolves around you and God. Damn the man , has nothing to do with either! Tool .... Damn the man.

      jody.beggs - 2012-03-06 19:07

      @Stirrer I wouldn't be surprised by your intelligence not when I see what kind in "intelligence" lands up in top positions. Its not what you know but who ! If you are so proud of yourself , unblock your facebook profile or atleast get a proper one. Damn the man.

      E=MC2 - 2012-03-07 13:06

      @Karen - lol!! looks to be that way hey... its DEFINITELY not mutual :-) he's just childish, so i take his comments from where they come... a child.

      E=MC2 - 2012-03-07 13:09

      Oh & jody.beggs - you should see someone about that splinter in your eye... seems to be making you cranky. & please stop quoting the Bible if you dont beleive in it because all you're in actual fact doing is showing everyone that all you're trying to do is irritate me...which, ever since ive realized how much of a child you are, isnt working ;)

      jody.beggs - 2012-03-08 09:35

      @E=MC2 that's rich, then stay away from scientific debates that you don't really believe in! Religion , Christianity has , through time killed people in the name of God. If you think this is OK then carry on believe in the wholy Geebers. But I have every right to stand against the ridiculous nature of creationist and other religious retards who want to play scientist. If you believe the Bible story as fact then good on you , stay out of normal society and leave the impressionable children the F@!k alone. Telling a 5 year old if the don't believe there going to burn in hell in tantamount to child abuse! Did that happen to you ? If God where omnipotent and cared for each and every one of us , he would make a point to break the silence, like he did in the old testament. I will leave religion alone when religion learns where its place is, at church and at home! Damn the man.

  • Chris - 2012-03-06 15:03

    Does anybody know what school is this?

      Ben - 2012-03-06 15:58

      Nope...but to the teacher.... DONT DRINK THE GRAPE COOLAID IN THE STAFF ROOM!!!

  • QuintSch - 2012-03-06 15:06

    Creationists have absolutely no problem with natural selection. A chap called Ed Blythe had a paper on natural selection years before Darwin wrote his 'On the Origin of Species' a paper he even read. But you can never equate natural selection and 'molecules to man' type macro evolution. The former is science, the latter a 'faith' (religion) as history cannot be observed or tested. I would be very happy for all religious views to be removed completely from science classes—although I would make an exception for Christian schools, where all learning should acknowledge and glorify God. The issue of origins could be dealt with in religious education classes. You see, both evolutionists and creationists are pre-suppositional, as we both start from a position that cannot be proven by science. Consequently, both views are faith positions. However, we can use science to test the validity of the two views; and we can do this by asking to what extent the data (the scientific observations) are consistent with the different views of origins. There are many articles on creation websites that show that the data fit the theory of evolution very poorly, but fit the biblical account of creation and Earth history very well. See and

      QuintSch - 2012-03-06 15:09

      Cont./ So if we are going to keep religious views out of the classroom we must also not teach the evolution faith. There is an abundance of evidence that plants and animals can change and adapt to new environments. Indeed, they appear to be programmed to do so. Finches can become other species of finch; fruit flies can become other species of fruit fly etc. This is what convinces many that ‘evolution’ is true. However, this is hardly scientific evidence, that ordinary chemicals can become living cells or that such can turn into people. As I learn more and more about the serious scientific problems with evolutionary theory (see, for example, and, I become more and more convinced that the scientific community’s general acceptance of evolution has very little to do with science. Most scientists I speak to are not even aware of these problems. Those that are better informed subscribe to evolutionary beliefs because of their prior commitment to philosophical naturalism. Their starting point is that the existence of everything they observe should be explained only by natural processes. According to this reasoning, evolution must be true.

      QuintSch - 2012-03-06 15:10

      Cont 2./ Many of the founders of modern science were creationists, some of whom made clear that the inspiration for their work came from their belief in creation. Galileo wrote that ‘the book of nature is a book written by the hand of God in the language of mathematics’3 and referred to the divine Creator as a ‘craftsman’ and an ‘architect’, concepts which inspired him to conduct experiments so as to learn about God’s creation. Believing the human mind also to be the work of this Creator, he confidently pursued his research in the expectation that the mind created by God was capable of understanding at least some of the rest of his creation. According to Galileo, it was this Christian belief that the principles of the universe were fathomable that led Copernicus to postulate the simple theory that the earth revolved around the sun. 4 For Robert Boyle, ‘the doctrine and belief in the Creator represented the very foundation of sound reasoning about the world’, and Newton ‘most explicitly endorsed the notion of a Creation once and for all as the only sound framework of natural philosophy. ’5 In an essay written for the Royal Society, John Maynard Keynes wrote of Newton that ‘he regarded the universe as a cryptogram set by the Almighty.’6 According to Robert Hooke, the pioneer of microscopy, the more we magnify objects, ‘the more we discover the imperfections of our senses, and the omnipotency and infinite perfections of the great Creator’.

      QuintSch - 2012-03-06 15:12

      And finally ... The creation/evolution debate is not about one science v. another, but about one faith v. another, one ‘world-view’ or ideology v. another. Supporters of creationism and the intelligent design movement want alternatives to evolution taught in school science classes because, otherwise, the youngsters will only hear one view—the naturalistic view that the secularists want imposed upon children through the education system.

      Franco - 2012-03-06 15:19

      Quint - there is no such thing as an evolutionist. That is just you needing to categorise people into beliefs. No scientist believes in evolution. Do you believe in gravity? That's also a theory with gaps. I don't believe in your god the same way that you don't believe in hundreds of other gods. I understand evolution and you either do or you dont - its got nothing to do with belief.

      modo - 2012-03-06 15:24

      Firstly, creationists these days DO have a problem with natural selection. In most cases they are complete denialists. Secondly, your post is littered with untruths. The websites you have listed are extremely unscientific and notoriously dishonest. They peddle lies and misinformation, and the fact you have cited them as your evidence removes every ounce of credibility from you argument. You say: "However, this is hardly scientific evidence, that ordinary chemicals can become living cells or that such can turn into people." The origins of life, and assembly of chemicals into DNA has NOTHING to do with evolution. The fact is people such as you can easily deny evolution because you know absolutely nothing about it! You have probably never heard about the overwhelming evidence for evolution that exists in genetics, comparative anatomy, geographical distribution of species, human aided artificial selection, observed specification and pretty much every field of earth and life science. It is for this reason that there is a hugely overwhelming consensus in the scientific community that evolution is a fact. You first mistake is trusting non-scientific BS such and answers in genesis. There is a reason sites like this have garnered zero respect from the scientific, historic and academic communities.

      Godfrey - 2012-03-06 15:26

      Enough copy/paste. How about some original thoughts. There is no such word as 'evolutionist' so that exposes your position. The kind of arguments you paste here (pasted from creationist web sites) come from people who've done no kind of thorough study of evolution. Pasting it here just makes you look willfully ignorant. Following your absence of logic, you're have to seriously claim that the dinosaurs lived during bible times. yeah, right. So when the Greeks, Eqyptians and Romans were running their empires, there were dinosaurs? Funny, in all their records they never said anything about dinosaurs. I think I understand where you're coming from now, and it isn't a smart place. It's a silly place. And it's the same place that your human god named Jesus comes from. Funny that too, The Romans never recorded anything about the magic man in the dress.

      modo - 2012-03-06 15:30

      Every scientist you mentioned was alive long before the theory of natural selection was even postulated. They had no choice in their beliefs. Most of them lived in a time would unbelief would even be punished. Evolution is not a faith based claim. It is evidence based. And the evidence that supports it is vast and has never been refuted. It is an extremely falsifiable theory, all it would take is ONE fossil found in the wrong strata, ONE sequence of DNA that bears no resemblance to a related species, ONE species that is found in the wrong geographical location is the world. But, unsurprisingly, this has never happened.

      modo - 2012-03-06 15:34

      The only way to treat Creationists, who have absolutely nothing to back up their bogus claims, is with disdain and mockery. "The Discovery Institute announced that over 700 scientists had expressed support for intelligent design as of February 8, 2007. This prompted the National Center for Science Education to produce a 'light-hearted' petition called "Project Steve" in support of evolution. Only scientists named 'Steve' or some variation (such as Stephen, Stephanie, and Stefan) are eligible to sign the petition. It is intended to be a 'tongue-in-cheek parody' of the lists of alleged 'scientists' supposedly supporting creationist principles that creationist organizations produce. The petition demonstrates that there are more scientists who accept evolution with a name like 'Steve' alone (over 1100) than there are in total who support intelligent design."

      Nathan - 2012-03-06 16:03

      Science presents facts, all religion has is its faith, ad hominem attacks and logical fallacies.

      Jeffrey - 2012-03-06 17:08

      "I would make an exception for Christian schools, where all learning should acknowledge and glorify God." You would glorify a "God' that "created" this mess of a world, and created thousands of species just so they could go extinct. If you think that Humankind is a wonder of "creation" then I would want no part in glorifying such a misanthrope as your "God".

      Gloria - 2012-03-07 17:12

      @Jeffrey - Humans messed up the earth, not God.

  • Albie - 2012-03-06 15:26

    No one will ever be able to proof that evolution is fact. It will always be a matter of believe. I Choose God, not blindly, but because of the evidence I see in nature as well as the personal relationship I have with Him.

      Franco - 2012-03-06 15:33

      Albie - you too can go out there and find ONE person that BELIEVES in evolution. All you will find is those who don't.

      jody.beggs - 2012-03-06 15:37

      @Albie No one will ever be able to proof that religion is fact. It will always be a matter of believe. I Choose rational though, not blindly, but because of the evidence I see in nature as well as the peer reviewed scientific articles. Damn the man. And in this case its E=MC2.

      johan.lombaard - 2012-03-06 16:23

      @jody.beggs The proof for God's existence and the truth of His Word is all around us. If you choose not to believe in the evidence, He will provide a final proof when He comes back to earth for the final judgement. The problem is that everyone will believe in His existence on that day, but some will fall down in fear, knowing that their opportunity for repentance has passed.

      Throw - 2012-03-06 17:02

      @johan.lombaard Your version of your religion is an affront to all humanity. How disgusting of you to sit there telling us that there is evidence all around us of your imaginary friend and then go on to tell us that when we are "forced to know" (in some undisclosed amount of time) that it is too late and that because of our lack of gullibility we will perish or be tormented forever. Don't pretend not to revel in our "future torture" you sick %#&*.

      clivecorbz - 2012-03-06 17:13

      @Johan You are a fool to the chemicals in your brain. You feel "God coming into your heart". I feel serotonin being released. Giving me a euphoric high. I felt it when gave my life to Jesus, luckily he doesn't exist, so I could just take it back. And I felt it when I fell in love, and when I saw my an amazing live band (not a gift from God, they're atheist too). You need to question your evidence free convictions, cause I assure you that people of other faiths feel just as strongly as you. Evidence is key. REAL EVIDENCE. EVIDENCE!!!!

      Jeffrey - 2012-03-06 17:15

      Say "Hi' to God for me Albie, and ask him why he can't get the Stormers to win the Super Rugby championship. Are they not praying hard enough? Also glad you see God in nature, e.g. tsunamis, earthquakes, tornadoes, avalanches that kill tens of thousands of innocent people going about their business. He sure is some character this God of yours.

      jerry.pres - 2012-03-07 06:11

      @albie God of Old Testament is arguably most unpleasant character in all fiction. Jealous and proud of it, a petty, unjust, unforgiving control freak, bloodthirsty, homophobic, racist, genocidal, megalomaniacal, capriciously malevolent bully. I am glad for you and your personal relationship with this mass murderer. I am just wondering, why you not worship other mass murderers like Hitler or Stalin. Your God is on top of the list all of them. Only he wiped out 99.99% of population.Your Bible is full of stories killing innocent people. All of the stories are absurd from a historical standpoint; they could not happen the way they are told in the Bible. But what is more damming is their unspeakable cruelty and immorality. If the killing described in the Bible actually happened, that God is not the kind of the God that believers pretend Him to be.

      E=MC2 - 2012-03-07 13:11

      @jody.beggs - hahahaha!! So im the man hey? damn you're childish:)!!

      Fredster - 2012-03-07 15:10

      100% Albie

      Grant - 2012-03-07 20:40

      //No one will ever be able to proof that evolution is fact. It will always be a matter of believe// It's been proven multiple times, try to keep up lad. //but because of the evidence I see in nature // Some people do this for a living, they are called biologists, and have shown evolution to be true.

  • GaryWatson - 2012-03-06 15:33

    what school is it? i'd take my kid out of that school. that's institutionalised child abuse.

      hein.huyser - 2012-03-07 08:05

      Non matter can never produce living matter = your science. Prove me wrong and ì will believe you. Something dead can never produce something that lives. If you believe that then you have biblical faith, if you see the error in your thinking, well, go get some biblical faith then, but you can not believe in both.

      Endof - 2012-03-07 09:56

      Actually Hein, every atom in your body was produced in a star (proven fact), so yes, a non-living thing is ultimately what made a living thing!

      E=MC2 - 2012-03-07 13:13

      no dof - just because we have the same matter in our make-up doesnt prove we were made in a star. & Gary - institutionalised child abuse?? you're one of those dont spank your children types hey?

      Endof - 2012-03-07 14:56

      Like I said earlier E=MC2, you're retarded.

      Karien - 2012-03-08 03:12

      E=MC2, uhm, do you spank your kids? Careful, it is now a CRIMINAL OFFENSE and officially CHILD ABUSE according to the actual LAW as opposed to Exodus Fiction!

  • davorg - 2012-03-06 15:33

    The fact that other teachers and parents are christian isn't the issue here. Most christians happily accept evolution as a fact. The Catholic church and the Anglican communion both accept evolution. It's only weird fringe churches that cling on to unscientific nonsense.

      Franco - 2012-03-06 15:37

      how can they accept a theory that fundamentaly contradicts everything they believe?

      Godfrey - 2012-03-06 15:54

      @Franco Force of evidence. They are clever enough to realise that the evidence for evolution is overwhelming and contradicts the biblical accounts of creation. To maintain some form of credibility they now postulate that evolution happened abut that their god set it in motion. Their next problem will come when scientists create life or life is found elsewhere in the universe. So they will just move the goal posts again to keep their businesses intact.

      richard.hipkin - 2012-03-06 16:04

      The Catholic church most certainly does not accept evolution, they at the forefront of creationism and intelligent design. At the Vatican they have a team dedicated in disproving evolution... poor fellows. They study it yes, they acknowledge it yes but they certainly do not accept it..

      Vaal-Donkie - 2012-03-06 16:05

      Please cite the verse that states there is no life anywhere else in the universe.

      Godfrey - 2012-03-06 16:25

      @Vaal-Donkie No sure who you are addressing about which book?

      Jeffrey - 2012-03-06 17:18

      @Franco, Because deep down they know that their "God" is a creation of the human mind. They have no facts to disprove evolution.

      Anwar - 2012-03-07 11:05

      @GodFrey "Their next problem will come when scientists create life or life is found elsewhere in the universe. " Maybe you'll find life in the universe( it is most definitely a possibility) , "Their next problem will come when scientists create life" Two people can create a new life all the time.. its not something explicilty reserved for science to discove.. Find a female partner guy and give her a good shag and 9 months later .. what do you have..

  • Marlene - 2012-03-06 15:36

    You know, I was going to comment (and I know I am doing just that:) ), but I am so tired of this subject now. You will never get christians (or believers of another religion) to admit they may be wrong, yet science is open for research to be re-tested and any proof leading to another, newer understanding of our world, is open for debate and generally accepted if proven true. It is not just discarded because it doesn't fit with our beliefs.

      Vaal-Donkie - 2012-03-06 16:14

      I say this article is fake.

      S - 2012-03-06 16:15

      Marlene, do you see the irony in your post? You are doing exactly what you accuse Christians etc to be doing, i.e. closing your mind to the alternative. Hypocrite.

      Godfrey - 2012-03-06 16:27

      Stirrer Read it again. She says exactly the opposite. Moron.

      S - 2012-03-06 16:48

      "You will never get christians (or believers of another religion) to admit they may be wrong" - Proof. You are not open to the view of religious people.

      Marlene - 2012-03-06 22:45

      @Stirrer I never stated anything about my belief in the above post. But, now that u bring it up... I have always maintained that I am open to the existence of a god, any god, if proof can be provided that such a god exists. I have never seen, or been referred to, any non-biased material(during many years of research), that proves the existence of god. Just as I can't believe in a scientific theory that has yet to be formulated, tested and proven, I can't believe in a god that has not yet been proven. By the way, which god should we believe in. There are so many... And I believe u like to live up to your name.

  • newelld - 2012-03-06 15:40

    I really wanna know what school this is...

  • Craig - 2012-03-06 15:40

    Oh dear, suffer the children!

  • gvangreunen - 2012-03-06 15:41

    I certainly don't believe we (well not all of us anyway) evolved from apes, but there is certainly enough factual evidence to prove that creatures have evolved over the millennia. It amazes me how evolution is labelled a "theory" as if there are no facts backing it up, yet the opponents to this theory i.e. chistians believe in a doctrine based on no hard facts itself. In fact the book their theory is based on warns against questioning it's religion for fear of being found lacking. Having said that, evolution does not disprove their religion at all. Do they not understand that God must have created all we know by some method i.e. Big Bang, evolution etc.?

      modo - 2012-03-06 15:50

      Go read up about our second chromosome. Might make you reconsider your first sentence. It's not as if there is no evidence for these theories, they are supported by masses and masses of corroborating evidence.

      Chris.House.Za - 2012-03-06 17:03

      We didn't evolve *from* Apes. We shared common ancestors with the other Great Apes (the most recent divergence between 6 and 8 million years ago). The Apes you're thinking about have had millions of years to evolve along their own fairly unique trajectory. This is a critical difference. Much confusion here is due to the contrasting definition of 'theory' in the public domain and scientific community. In the scientific community, a theory attempts to explain some aspect of reality and is supported by by empirical observations. These observations are also not facts. As Modo rightly points out.. there is a wealth of supporting evidence for evolution (especially human evolution). This consists of genetic, biological, and fossil evidence. The much debated dating of many fossils is done by way of accepted scientific techniques refined over many decades.

      Jeffrey - 2012-03-06 17:21

      Nowhere does evolution claim we evolved from apes, it claims primates evolved from a common ancestor.

      Phoenix - 2012-03-06 22:14

      Oh the theory thing again. Theory in science does not mean hypothesis! It means that in the ENTIRE body of human knowledge, no evidence exists that the theory is NOT true. Theory of gravity. That is true don't you think???? Theory is NOT some unproven idea! If you think evolution states that humans come from apes you clearly do not understand what it is.

  • Franco - 2012-03-06 15:41

    It must be very confusing for believers to hear an atheist repeadedly claim to not believe in evolution.

      Godfrey - 2012-03-06 15:57

      He cannot be an atheist then if he believes in some form of supernatural invisible entity.

  • frank.ford7 - 2012-03-06 15:47 Do we have to choose?

      jody.beggs - 2012-03-06 15:53

      yes one is fact and the other is fiction. Its as simple as that. Damn the man.

      Throw - 2012-03-06 17:15

      @jody.beggs Ah, thank you. I hate this "can't religion and science get along" rubbish. They can't and for far too long religion has overstepped its mark.

      Karien - 2012-03-06 18:27

      The entire field of religion is too broad a subject to discuss here as not all religions are based on belief in a god just to start with. The christian bible however is specific enough to serve as a tartget. The bible and evolution theory are irrevocably mutually exclusive and utterly contradictory to one another. Who knows if there actually is a God? I would contend though that the biblical version of the potential creator out there is nonsensical at best.

      hein.huyser - 2012-03-07 08:07

      Of coarse one must choose. I chose the one who said that non living matter can never produce living matter

      EttieneC - 2012-03-07 09:28

      Wow. Thanks Karien. Finally a comment that makes sense.

  • James - 2012-03-06 15:47

    Evolution isnt science its a religion.

      David - 2012-03-06 16:02

      James...don't talk cr@p...there isn't one scientist teaching evolution who builds a building to worship evolution and to take your money so that he can run his are possessed by a meme...a very powerful meme which is controlling you and you don't even know it....

      Vaal-Donkie - 2012-03-06 16:06

      David is channeling Daniel Dennet. "thinking for himself".

      David - 2012-03-06 16:12

      @ vaak-donkie ....why don't u go jump in the Mozambique channel...

      Vaal-Donkie - 2012-03-06 16:17

      Because I can think for myself and recognise that it is a bad idea. Also, I live a very happy and fulfilling life.

      wesleywt - 2012-03-06 16:25

      Evolution has proof. Therefore not a religion.

      Throw - 2012-03-06 17:18

      @wesleywt - Exactly. @Vaal-Donkie - Stop fooling yourself. Your religion is oppressive and restrictive so telling us you live a fulfilling life is like breaking your back and telling me how fast you can run.

      Lindani - 2012-03-06 19:44

      james you have joined the exclusive list of people who dont know what the word religion means

      Phoenix - 2012-03-06 22:15

      Oh please. Keep telling yourself that.

      curbylee1 - 2012-03-07 10:37

      James, I agree. Buildings does not define religion. The heart and thought of a human does. Just like Atheism is a religion, for they believe "There's no God" and as long as you believe in something strong enough it becomes a religion to you. Therefore Christianity isn't a religion but a lifestyle..check out " Why I hate religion and loves Jesus" on Youtube...

      Leon - 2012-03-07 10:49

      wesleyw what proof !!? What exactly do fossils prove ? Why the lack of prevalance of missing link fossils. Neither of these theories have any real proof.

      wesleywt - 2012-03-07 15:16

      Leon...its not only fossils (which definitively proves evolution), also genetic evidence and observation of the distribution of similar species many many more. Believing evolution is false is a sign of ignorance.

      Grant - 2012-03-07 20:38

      //Evolution isnt science its a religion// Your opinion without evidence is an opinion, a wrong one.

  • Ben - 2012-03-06 15:49

    "HOLY" CRAP.... I didn't know our schools were still this backwards...Goes to show... Gotta make sure whats happening in schools before you sent your kids there...

      Tracy - 2012-03-07 08:59

      ai Ben! Lekker lag ek vir jou comments!

      Ben - 2012-03-07 11:43

      I aim to please. ;P

  • Elton - 2012-03-06 15:50

    Absolutely unbelievable. The so-called science teachers must be fired. Where did they get their education? There is nothing wrong with having your own believes, but when you teach children of your believes - where you are a teacher - it is a sin.

      jody.beggs - 2012-03-06 15:54

      Are you sure about that ?

      Karen - 2012-03-06 16:40

      Of course he's sure - it's in the book of Elton chapter 4 verse 20 :)

      Karen - 2012-03-06 17:06

      Oh my goodness, does anyone know what a JOKE is?

      Jeffrey - 2012-03-06 17:23

      What is "sin"?

      jody.beggs - 2012-03-06 17:44

      @Karen jokes make people laugh not think , WTF ? Damn the man.

      E=MC2 - 2012-03-07 13:16

      @Karen - evolution did'nt do much for some peoples sense of humours unfortunately.... sssshhhhh hang on.... i can hear a DAMN THE MAN on the way wwwahahahahaha

      Gloria - 2012-03-07 17:25

      @E=MC2 - You wont hear it now,, Jody's mom called him to go do homework :)

      lana.vdwesthuizen - 2012-03-08 20:15 why do you teach my children your Christian belief at school? We are not Christian and yet they have to sing Christian songs, attend assemblies where the Christian Bible gets read and preached. So please enlighten me who is doing the sinning here?

      lana.vdwesthuizen - 2012-03-08 20:17

      ohhh I forgot...they even have "Godsdiens" as a subject!!!!

  • Ben - 2012-03-06 15:52

    As in the case of State... Religion should be kept away from schools. Should be kept to home and church. For a law you can just use the smoking law template... same thing...

  • David - 2012-03-06 15:58

    When people say evolution is just a theory.... YES IT IS...a theory just like the theory of gravity and proven....if you are a Creationist, evangelical or right wing christian then jump off the top of a tall building and see what 'just a theory' will do.....You know the World has gone mad when a Christian geography teacher doesn't teach plate tectonics....

      Throw - 2012-03-06 17:25

      EVOLUTION IS NOT A THEORY! What is so hard to understand that. It is a FACT as it has FACTUAL EVIDENCE. NATURAL SELECTION is a THEORY within evolution. So is a little known theory called neoteny. EVOLUTION = FACT NATURAL SELECTION = THEORY PEOPLE WHO SAY OTHERWISE = LIES

      Phoenix - 2012-03-06 22:17

      Theory in science means that there exist NO evidence whatsoever that the theory is not correct. It is NOT the same as how the word theory is used by lay people.

      hein.huyser - 2012-03-07 08:12

      David, maybe you will understand things if I explain it in the language I used when I taught bmy kids on this subject. Science have proven over and over that something that is dead can never produce or bring forth something that is alive. never. therefore the religion of evolution have duped a lot of people and don't be one. My std 2 laaitie understood it and refuted his science teacher in frfont of the class. So will I do to you if we could have a 1on1.

      Franco - 2012-03-07 11:21

      Hein - is an egg alive ?????

      Samantha - 2012-03-07 12:44

      @ Phoenix - well then you could say the same thing about the "theory" of God. There is no evidence whatsoever that proves he DOESN'T exist. Therefore God must be real?

      Mark - 2012-03-08 08:15

      tHROW, That's BS. There can be no absolute (i.e. fact) in science. That would violate a cornerstone of the scientific method, namely falsifiability. Evolution is a well supported THEORY, which can be falsified at any time.

      Elton - 2012-03-08 10:00

      Throw, in science, a hypothesis is an unproven idea for a certain problem. It is elevated to a theory once it is proven beyond reasonable doubt. The word 'theory' has a completely different meaning in science as in everyday life. In lay terms, a 'theory of something' in science is where that something has been proven to exists, but how it works needs to be studied. The 'theory of gravity' is a good example. It doesn't mean that gravity doesn't exists, it means science wants to learn how gravity work. There are thousands upon thousands of scientific proof for evolution published in scientific papers, and not one diss-proving it. For a scientist, to get even one paper published can take years of research. It is extremely hard to get a paper published, and once it is, it is scrutinized by the entire scientific community. Scientists love to find mistakes. A scientist who can disprove evolution, get his paper published and have it pass all the peer reviews will get a noble piece prize. The same would go if a scientist disproofs gravity. So, if anybody here has any proof that evolution is false, please contact me. We can write a scientific paper and become famous!

  • Adam - 2012-03-06 15:58

    We have nothing to fear but faith itself.

  • clayton.currer - 2012-03-06 16:00

    God created through evolution. Where is the problem?

      Fanie - 2012-03-06 16:23

      Bells for you my good man

      eheesen - 2012-03-06 16:23

      Wrong. God didn't create through evolution. He created through His spoken Word. He formed man and animal out of the earth, each according to it's kind in 1 day. Go read your Bible. Death became a reality AFTER the fall of mankind. Noah's flood (go read how he tell about how the flood started and where all the water came from, then think about the catastrophe of the Japan flood and the impact of it on Japan alone). Don't fall for the evolution lie. God did create His creation to be adaptable with it's kind, this is the only scientific fact.

      jody.beggs - 2012-03-06 16:33

      @clayton.currer creation fail

      Karen - 2012-03-06 16:43

      None of us were there so we have no way of being sure. Creation was "told" to us through a book. There is evidence of creation and there is evidence of evolution. If there was complete evidence for one or the other then we wouldn't have arguments like the above. We would accept it like the earth is round (and not flat) and like gravity is a proven theory...

      jody.beggs - 2012-03-06 17:29

      @Karen evidence for creation , please elaborate if you can ? Damn the man.

      Throw - 2012-03-06 17:30

      @eheesen - Thanks for turning the fringe christians into atheists with your crazy talk. @Karen - there is no evidence for creationism and christians used to kill people for believing the world was round.

      clayton.currer - 2012-03-06 17:52

      The old testament was inspired some 3000 years ago. If God had to explain evolution to the people of the time, they would not have understood. He did indeed speak and evolution was the result. Evolution (if properly understood) is ingenious. Only an ingenious God could have come up with it.

      jody.beggs - 2012-03-06 19:20

      @clayton.currer so God , omnipotent creator of all , could not explain to the people of the time about evolution! Creator of heaven , animals and humans but failed to teach them how to listen , so he make up a simplified false story ? God I love your God , where do I sign up ? Damn the man.

      EttieneC - 2012-03-07 09:35

      eheesen, Karen. Frodo really did save Middle Earth... No really. There is a book that says so.

  • Vaal-Donkie - 2012-03-06 16:02

    "The theory of natural selection by evolution" LOL. Two Fanta's to the first person to tell me why I laughed at this.

      Grant - 2012-03-06 16:20

      Evolution is a well known authour, whose work, "the theory of natural selection" was a best seller!

      Vaal-Donkie - 2012-03-06 17:30

      LOL @ Grant. But seriously, it's the theory of evolution by natural selection, not the other way around. Epic fail by News24.

  • Grant - 2012-03-06 16:04

    Separation of church and state......

  • Eric Maseko - 2012-03-06 16:05

    @ Clayton, did God CREAT the universe & it's inhabitants through evolution or through Jesus Christ (power or force which is gravity upholding the worlds together)? Point of correction since the bible is full of true science not the sudo scient the

  • Robin - 2012-03-06 16:05

    Evolution is a scientific fact; creation is a religious belief. QED

      neil.hamman - 2012-03-06 16:10

      Prove it

      David - 2012-03-06 16:18

      @ neil...there are many many books on the subject written by qualified scientists....just open and read...

      wesleywt - 2012-03-06 16:26

      @neil already done.

      Tamuka - 2012-03-06 16:37

      Evolution is not a fact, its a theory. It cannot be proven. Its not like 1 + 1 = 2. The reason why people argue about it is because no body has lived that long to prove through experience that humanity and animals went through the various stages of development.

      neil.hamman - 2012-03-06 16:47

      I have read up about it. Interesting but not convincingly so. Evolution is selective when it comes to the use of the second law of thermodynamics, informatics and microbiology. These are all scientific fields yet they do not support the theory of evolution. Variation in a kind is fine but not creation of a species. Evolution that teaches reproduction from one kind to another is a process that is not known to science. Your right answer should of been its a theory.. so therefor I cant prove it. Have a nice one

      Throw - 2012-03-06 18:05

      @neil.hamman - Our own sun violates the laws of thermodynamics. It's isn't a complete scientific theory. Please try explain complete fossil records with your "expert" knowledge.

      mbossenger - 2012-03-06 18:25

      Neil - there is no problem with the 2nd law of thermodynamics. You cannot treat the earth as a closed system as there is an outside energy source (sun).

  • Bomb - 2012-03-06 16:08

    Everyone should believe what they want, be it evolution or creationism. I believe we as human beings are anyway still too stupid to comprehend all around us and how evolution and religion actually fits together in the creation puzzle. Good thing is though, the day we die, all questions are answered. If you wanna believe there is nothing after death, you have nothing to worry about and can continue to live your life like you want and hope that is how it turns out. If however there is SOMETHING after death, there surely must be consequences for how you lived your life. So its everyone's own right to make that decision. Just be prepared for the answer when you leave this life, if in fact there is an answer. Use it, don't use it.......PS: I believe in a higher Being, where it all started. It doesn't necessarily mean I believe the bible, but then again, maybe I do......then again maybe I don't.

      Jeffrey - 2012-03-06 17:28

      Your argument is known as Pascal's Wager.

      jody.beggs - 2012-03-06 17:33

      So you believe just in case and not whole heartedly , I'm so proud of you ! Damn the man.

      Phoenix - 2012-03-06 22:27

      It is like cosmic insurance! Yay!

      E=MC2 - 2012-03-07 13:21

      another troll by jody.beggs - you cant even agree to dissagree can you.

      jody.beggs - 2012-03-08 09:39

      @E=MC2 did someone say troll ? Damn the man.

  • Shaun - 2012-03-06 16:09

    I must say, God is amazing... So many people speak out against Him in utter ignorance and yet He still chooses to love all of you... Wish I could say the same of the idiots who write these stories so that they can insight feuds between the two belief structures... Live and let live, if that science teacher is at a Christian school, then they will teach Creationism as opposed to Evolution. THERE IS PROOF OF NEITHER!!! Both are taken on faith...

      eheesen - 2012-03-06 16:18

      I agree with you.

      Throw - 2012-03-06 18:07


      mbossenger - 2012-03-06 18:24

      "THERE IS PROOF OF NEITHER" - but only evidence for one (hint: not for creationism)

      Lauren - 2012-03-07 08:33

      Ok...i did NOT wanted to get involved in this argument....BUT if I choose as school for my child, and I choose it based on OUR religeon, and some science teacher of whatever comes and tells my child otherwise, i will be upset.....I chose a Christian School for my child to attend....They teach Creationism....That is what WE BELIEVE IN (our choice our descision end of story). Just as YOU who do NOT believe in God choose NOT TO believe in Him, I am choosing not to believe in Evolution....I CHOOSE IT! I DECIDE WHAT I BELIEVE IN! RESPECT THAT its MY decision....

      Almero - 2012-03-07 08:51

      @Lauren: Guess the child never gets a choice in this either. No examination of the evidence and then deciding. Sounds more like indoctrination than education then, doesn't it? But hey, that is the good biblical way! Thank goodness for laws of you would still have 'heathens' up on pyres.

      Llewellyn - 2012-03-07 09:16

      LOL You are the ignorant one. And stupid to boot.

  • Greg - 2012-03-06 16:10

    You guys are all noobs. The truth is that an ancient alien species came to earth and bio engineered us into what we are today. We are no more than an advanced bio technology, some "things" creation. You may call it god, I like to call it an Extra terrestrial. :P

      Eric Maseko - 2012-03-06 16:14

      Greg, you are such a joke & insult to other human beings! Go out & return where u came from.... u bloody alien!

      Vaal-Donkie - 2012-03-06 16:17

      Actually, Richard Dawkins seems to entertain that theory. he calls it "panspermia".

      Throw - 2012-03-06 17:38

      @Vaal-Donkie - What Greg says is actually very plausible. Your ignorance blinds you. You should be feeling jealous coz his statement has evidence.

      jody.beggs - 2012-03-06 17:51

      LOL , far more convincing than any religion out there and a way lot more evidence. Damn the man.

      Vaal-Donkie - 2012-03-07 08:46

      I didn't say anything other than that Richard Dawkins agrees.

      Llewellyn - 2012-03-07 09:20

      I would rather go for thealiendidit than goddidit. That would explain my mother-in-law.

      Vaal-Donkie - 2012-03-07 10:13

      Fair enough.

  • Eric Maseko - 2012-03-06 16:11

    world was created through Jesus & later on Re-Created through him again, yes there was some power (as some call it the big bang ordeal) behind it. In actual truth that power was God's son & He still upholds the world together even to date! I love TRUE science because it manifests God's power not the sudo invented to deceive & brainwash our school children

      Throw - 2012-03-06 17:39

      Do you like to lie for Jesus? And people actually laugh at Greg's statement above...

      jody.beggs - 2012-03-06 17:53

      Wow really , I'm convinced I'll join your church today , where is it ? Damn the man.

      mbossenger - 2012-03-06 18:23

      Why did he have to recreate the world - couldn't he get is right first time? After all, he is omniscient, or is he just a dud architect?

      Llewellyn - 2012-03-07 09:27

      Where do you get this stuff from? Jesus did this before he was born, did it again before he was born, then later was born, then died, then wants to come again to go again... I am confused. Does he use science or magic to do everything? My God...

  • J-Man - 2012-03-06 16:14

    These religious folk need to wake the F**k up. If my children are at a school and this happens, I'm taking them out pronto. I want my children to be taught facts, not fairy tales. They are a joke. Pathetic.

      Sene - 2012-03-06 16:56

      Ag shame

      J-Man - 2012-03-07 08:40


      Sharon - 2012-03-07 10:44

      CHILDREN SHOULD NOT BE TAUGHT THAT WISHFUL THINKING (PRAYING, FAITH) WILL RESOLVE PROBLEMS. Nonreligious, faithless people resolve issues through reason and logic. The Religious have a deep faith that issues will be resolved with wishful thinking, also known as praying. Who would you rather have at the controls of a aircraft, nuclear power station, etc ?. a person who applies reason and logic to resolve emergencies and problems that arise, or a person who prays for solutions ?.

      J-Man - 2012-03-07 16:17

      100% correct Sharon. I find it the funniest thing ever.. People closing their eyes, folding their hands, looking down..and talking to some "being in the sky", and thinking he/she/it "hears them".....(and will make their sports team win...)although they never get an answer or anything....funny funny. BTW.. Where exactly in the sky is this god fellow? "Up in heaven?" Last time anyone checked "up" is never-ending...and in Space..."Up" doesn't even good luck.

  • Vaal-Donkie - 2012-03-06 16:14

    If I can just get everyone's attention for a second: isn't it strange that the school's name is withheld? Usually when something controversial happens at a school, the school's name is displayed. Like for instance when One teacher shot the other at my old high school, Welkom Gimnasium. I think this story was faked to generate drama. Just think back to what the hottest topic was this past week or so, and all of a sudden, we have a stereotypical anti-evolution story from an unnamed school that could have been plucked straight from Richard Dawkins' website. And at any rate, I know many of these "upmarket Christian schools", They are anything but conservative "young earthers". Oh, and one more thing, the theory of Evolution would be taught in the biology class, not the science class (where one is taught physics and chemistry).

      Godfrey - 2012-03-06 16:31

      Don't know why you got the thumbs down for a reasonable statement.

      Jeffrey - 2012-03-06 17:35

      You went to Welkom Gimnasium? No wonder you believe in the Sky Fairy.

      Vaal-Donkie - 2012-03-07 08:45


  • wesleywt - 2012-03-06 16:14

    Ah... preparing the next generation of stupid people.

  • Ali - 2012-03-06 16:14

    Evolution is a THEORY, not a FACT, Leroy!

      J-Man - 2012-03-06 16:23

      And what is religion?? Not even a theory..its a made up story, ALI.

      wesleywt - 2012-03-06 16:29

      @Ali The scientific meaning of a theory is different from your meaning. In science a theory is an explanation. For example evolution explains how species came about. A theory in everyday language and not science means "a guess". For example Jake and Jill went up the hill. I have a theory they went to get some water. Here the meaning of theory is the same as a guess.

      tian.versfeld - 2012-03-06 17:37

      @ Blinding. You are confusing Evolution with Natural Selection. Evolution is not a fact. Natural Selection is.

      Jeffrey - 2012-03-06 17:39

      It's a scientific theory, which means it is supported by scientific facts. I have a theory that all people who are from the Free State are morons, unfortunately I don't have the facts to prove that theory, but I believe it all the same. Just as religious people believe in the Theory of Creation, but they have no facts to back up the theory. See the difference between a scientific theory and a useless theory now?

      Franco - 2012-03-07 12:43

      Ali - you don't even realise how much you support evolution by making such a statement. Try looking up the definition of words before you use them.

  • elaine.swart - 2012-03-06 16:15

    I will not allow any school to give my child an inadequate science foundation and if that means taking on all the Christians single-handedly, so be it. Luckily at 5 year old she already has a very firm grasp of evolution, plate tectonics and the fossil record, and I will continue to build on this. I just find it pathetic that a child would have to stand up for science in a science class against religious fanaticism. Cause that's what is going to happen.

      Almero - 2012-03-07 08:57

      It is pathetic on the one side, but a shining light on the other. As long as there are people like your kid, the world has hope.

      jeffdanielp - 2012-03-07 14:38

      Wise words "if that means taking on all the Christians single-handedly" influcenced by foolish minds. Popularity soars because most Christians tend to ignore ignorant utterances. Does not look like you studied maths beacuse "all the Christians" is an unknown factor to you.

      pat.torngren - 2012-03-07 18:36

      Well said Elaine!

  • Jan - 2012-03-06 16:15

    I see the same foul mannered people are joining the anti-creation lobby. If your scientists are so good at establishing fact why is it that they cannot take matter and create life as we know it? Why is it that they cannot control the forces of nature and change the direction of wind or stop a tornado? Why can they not build mountains? They cannot even influence the cosmic rythims. The day your scientists can do all these things, perhaps their 'facts' would be valid. Yes, creatures adapt or evolve to changes in their environment. Until then, hold your foul tongues in respect for the God that created all these things. God doesn't need to prove Himself to those that he created.

      wesleywt - 2012-03-06 16:30

      You are not even wrong to warrant a reply.

      David - 2012-03-06 16:56

      can you or your pastor/whatever create a mountain...? actually one better...ask God to come down and create one quickly....must be a piece of pie...if he/she/it exists that is...

      Throw - 2012-03-06 17:44

      That is the most nonsensical rubbish I have read on this thread. I'm not going to show you how stupid your statement was because I find it evidence that you lack any coherent logic

      Llewellyn - 2012-03-07 09:37

      If your god is as good as you say he is, why does he not answer prayers, stop tornados and tsunamis and 9/11's killing good god fearing people. As for mountains, you should see the mine dumps where I work, they look like mountains...

      EttieneC - 2012-03-07 09:43

      Jan Jan die brandweer man!!! You make me LOL!!!

  • eheesen - 2012-03-06 16:17

    Sorry, but I too won't allow my children to be indoctrinated by the lies of evolution, that is macro evolution per se. There is no proof of macro evolution. The fossil record is more in accordance with Noah's flood, which is rejected by modern scientists. I am not against science, but I am against presumptions of a certain group of scientists who, influenced by Darwin's theory of natural selection, teach the rest of the world macro evolution is a fact. I don't know why a Christian geography teacher won't teach about the tectonic plates, but macro evolution is nonsense. Adaptation of species in a kind in response of the environment is scientific. All thumbs up for a school and it's community who stand up for their faith and what the Bible teaches us!

      David - 2012-03-06 16:58

      macro evolution is micro evolution but over a much longer period...Darwin is Great!

      Hugo - 2012-03-06 17:27

      David huh?

      Throw - 2012-03-06 17:46

      "I am against presumptions of a certain group of scientists" should read "I'm against the scientific community as a whole"

      TheJaydedKing - 2012-03-06 18:09

      Eheesen - I applaud your ability to retain your faith in a time when clearly every piece of evidence points against it. That said once you have removed your head from the sand you may notice that the two do not need to be mutually exclusive, evolution does not deny the existence of god it merely details his methodology.

      timothy.spring - 2012-03-06 18:11

      Pity that speciation has been observed. That's macroevolution, right? Here you go - section 5.0 is where the juicy bits are:

      mbossenger - 2012-03-06 18:20

      Macro evolution is evolution above the level of species i.e. speciation and has been observed in both plants and animals.

  • Rob - 2012-03-06 16:18

    Education should be about equiping kids to deal with the world and do their best to understanding. Extremists exist in that world, the kids need to know how to recognise them (even if their parents are included) so that they have a reasonable chance to avoid the dogma that extremists (of all types) often use to support (even enforce) their perspectives. Let's hope that all and every student that is exposed to this finds a way to learn about both sides of this contentious issue so that they are able to form opinions based on argument and evidence. As for the teachers and parents trying to blinker their children, they should be ashamed of their bigotted positions.

      Throw - 2012-03-06 17:49

      "Let's hope that all and every student that is exposed to this finds a way to learn about both sides of this contentious issue so that they are able to form opinions based on argument and evidence." It isn't even contentious because there isn't evidence for creationism, just a non-logical argument. Screw tolerance. GET RELIGION OUT OF SCHOOLS!

      jody.beggs - 2012-03-06 17:58

      Throw for President but damn the man anyway !

      Lizette - 2012-03-07 11:25

      agree whole-heartedly with Throw, religion does not belong in schools. Christianity is not the only religion in South Africa and should not get preference over any other faith. Evolution is a scientific theory that should be taught in all Biology classes.

      Mark - 2012-03-08 08:22

      Throw, Screw tolerance., yes? Then let's replace Ghadaffi ( I know he's dead) with Mugabe. It's a change right??

  • neil.hamman - 2012-03-06 16:18

    "Religion" did not force anybody to quite. People did. Im raising my kids to believe in GOD, like I do. "If" Im wrong I was at least able to bring up good kids, but if your wrong? What do you thinks going to happen then?

      Rob - 2012-03-06 16:26

      Why are kids that believe in God going to be "good", plenty of "bad" people out there who belive in God too...

      neil.hamman - 2012-03-06 16:52

      i wonder where the concept of morality comes from... how do you know right from wrong? The legal system perhaps? Your parents? Their parents? Perhaps it came from the "concept" of religion.

      Jeffrey - 2012-03-06 17:44

      The jails are full of God-fearing people of all religions. I fail to see what religion has to do with living a moral life.

      Throw - 2012-03-06 17:56

      @neil.hamman - Well morality didn't come from religion. Religion dictates laws. Morality is something that needs to be intrinsically understood though metaphysical exploration. Using religion as a moral framework is like photocopying the Mona Lisa and telling people you're an artist.

      jody.beggs - 2012-03-06 18:03

      Morality can't exist when you can just repent your sin's and do it again. Repenting is an easy way out for Christian sinners! I bet none of the Christian folk reading this pass on the second commandment ? Damn the man.

      TheJaydedKing - 2012-03-06 18:13

      I think the problem you are facing is due to the fact that the nature of your God is derived from the bible, thus your ending line would effectively have the rest of us in hell. For some of us we believe in God but simply not the bible description of him, you see for many of us its the bible not God that we reject.

      Mark - 2012-03-08 08:52

      Jody, What is atheism's answer to repentance?

      jody.beggs - 2012-03-08 09:57

      @Mark Theres no such thing, your conscience tell you right from wrong. People without a conscience are more like animals. But there is no right or wrong , those are human creations. All we can hope for is that more people can develop a conscience and try and control the animals. Not pray to something and hope he hears us! Didn't Jesus say you could pray for anything and you will get it ? My favorite saying is, "God helps those who help themselves." So why do we need God ? Damn the man.

      Mark - 2012-03-08 10:02

      Jody, Then why does it matter which roue an individual follow to perceive right and wrong? Say I 'control the animal' with my faith, and you do it with logic, why am I by default wrong?

      jody.beggs - 2012-03-08 11:04

      @Mark 1. Because of the crap its caused in the passed. 2. It can be interpreted anyway you want it to be. 3. The money collected doesn't help the congregation only the top knobs in the highest positions. 4. Because science and a proper education have made it obsolete. 5. Because its a lie or sorry 80% accurate and helpful in today's society. 6. Because its sexist , woman are lessor to the male counterparts. 7. It advocates Murder by stoning of * and doesn't punish rapist's or incest. 8. God Kills babies. 9. God destroys whole cities. 10. God demanded animal and human sacrifices. 11. God is intolerant of other religions. 12. God is not real. * [gays , non-believers , witches and warlocks , rape survivors ] i.e. normal people Pick one. Damn the man. PS if any of these are false please feel free to comment

      Mark - 2012-03-08 11:21

      Jody, I am disregarding points 8-12, as it is contradictory. To follow your logic: We can nuke the hell out of Germany because they started two world wars? Or Russia should be decimated because of the negative effects of communism? Or we should wipe Nigeria and Brazil from the face of the earth because it's the collective drug capital of the world? You see, generalisation will bring us nowhere.

      jody.beggs - 2012-03-08 12:26

      @Mark humans can kill babies , yes , but if you follow a God that does what does that really say about you , the follower ? I should have had it in passed tense because there is no evidence of it happening now anyway , God hasn't "acted out" and destroyed crap since the old testament. Your missing the point but at least agree with points 1 to 8 . Damn the man.

      ZingZang - 2012-03-09 13:05

      Neil, I personally knew Mr Lotter in the article I quote below. He was a good man. He raised Christian children, or so he thought . . . I hope you can guarantee your kids will be better than this, because religion is not your guarantee.

  • davidrexcampos - 2012-03-06 16:20

    I think the author of this article should do some research on creationism before writing a piece on it. It seems obvious to me. Something I noticed about this article is that its incorrect to say that creationists don't believe in natural selection . Natural selection is used as a means to explain evolution but its not an exclusive idea to evolution . If you've got 6 white cats and 2 black cats and then you kill all the white cats then the genes for white cats will be gone and there will only be black cats left . That proves absolutely nothing . We as creationists obviously believe that natural selection is a fact where we differ is in the interpretation and conclusion of that fact .

      TheJaydedKing - 2012-03-06 18:46

      David - sadly it would appear that your education has been influenced by creationists. your description of cats is mind numbingly off point, your understanding of both natural selection and evolution are horribly impaired and appear to be poorly formed. with ease you somehow manage to unhinge two scientific concepts from on another whilst ignoring the blatantly screamingly obvious links. you then somehow attempt to hold hostage components that are suitable to your vision of reality. That said once you have removed your head from the sand you may notice that the two do not need to be mutually exclusive, evolution does not deny the existence of god it merely details his methodology.

  • Greg - 2012-03-06 16:21

    My question is this... Why does evolution have to disprove religion? Why can't evolution be a product of what God has done on the earth? Is it not amazing enough for you?? in my opinion setting off a chain reaction that would cause millions of years of evolution taking us from single celled organisms to the dominant species on the planet pretty amazing. That everything you see and feel came from the smallest possible thing. Why does only one HAVE to be correct?

      tian.versfeld - 2012-03-06 18:23

      Actually the Bible says nothing about the earth being flat. I don't know why you make this statement, perhaps because the media somehow put that idea into your head. The Bible actually suggests in more than one place that the earth is round. And it's interesting that the Flat Earth Society was founded by an evolutionist...

      Karien - 2012-03-06 19:36

      I shall state once again, why say religion when you are referring to only one, namely biblical christianity. The entire field of religion is far too broad to discuss here, well, if you intend to keep any kind of logical and factual accuracy. Stay on the relevant topic and refer to the bible or christianity, both of which I find strongly contradictory to contemporary science.

      Mark - 2012-03-08 08:54

      Karien, I tend to agree with you. But Christianity was never - in my opinion - meant to challenge science. Are you a theist, then?

      Karien - 2012-03-08 14:11

      Hi Mark, well, technically I guess I'm spiritually agnostic according to what I have found, learned and experienced. I like objectivity and openness to all possibilities, and I also find it essential not to get caught up in over-believing anything too much (if you know what I mean) as that invariably leads to a place where one might deny things out of emotion... things that might actually be true whether one likes it or not.

  • Chad - 2012-03-06 16:23

    Those who would legislate against the teaching of evolution should also legislate against gravity, electricity and the unreasonable velocity of light, and also should introduce a clause to prevent the use of the telescope, the microscope and the spectroscope or any other instrument [...] used for the discovery of truth. - Luther Burbank

      Anwar - 2012-03-07 11:27

      Sorry.. Gravity has nothing to do with evolution, neither does elecrticity, or velocity of light thats all physics.. We are talking about life and its origin What a retarded statement to regurgitate People seem to have the wrong idea, religion doesnot reject science. we are at a dispute only when evolution is concerned nothing more nothing less.

      Unfound - 2012-03-07 13:51

      @Anwar- Evolution says nothing about the ORIGIN, it speaks about the DIVERSITY of life. The orgin of life is a seperate science called ABIOGENESIS.

  • Rob - 2012-03-06 16:24

    Religon generally screws everything up, regardless of which one you pick... Teach everything and let the kids make up their own minds - Oh, wait, this is South Africa - never going to happen, too many biggoted individuals out there of all colours, religons etc...

  • Scott - 2012-03-06 16:24

    Dear Religionists Do all, do nothing or you're a lier and a hypocrite...

  • hc12345 - 2012-03-06 16:26

    You need more faith to believe in evolution than to believe that Almighty God is the creator of everything. Nothing cannot create anything.Does not matter what Scientist "create" they use something that has been created. Nothing X Nothing + Nothing

      NickvanderLeek - 2012-03-06 16:34

      you need to read more

      jody.beggs - 2012-03-06 16:40

      Its broken logic like this that fool religots into believing in the holy geebers. Damn the man.

      Jeffrey - 2012-03-06 17:51

      So where did "God" come from? I fail to see what is "Almighty" about this "God" of yours, if he/she/it created this world, quite frankly I could have done a lot better myself. If he/she/it "created" it in six days that could possibly count as some form of proof that your "God" exists, as the world has all the evidence of it being a rush-job. A sort of afterthought to creating the rest of the universe perhaps?

      Anwar - 2012-03-07 12:04

      "if he/she/it created this world, quite frankly I could have done a lot better myself" Go ahead give it a try.. lets see what you come up with Hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha

  • bushruna - 2012-03-06 16:26

    If we all came from adam and eve does that mean we are all the result of thier inbred children and those children had children, no thanks I choose evolution

      Godfrey - 2012-03-06 16:33

      he inbreds are the people who believe the Adam and Eve horse .......

      Fredster - 2012-03-07 15:14

      None is as blind as the one who does not want to see

      Wendy - 2012-03-07 20:04

      Janine, incest only became an issue after quite a long time of the degenerative effects of sin.

      lana.vdwesthuizen - 2012-03-09 15:53

      I don't understand your thinking...though I am not a Christian when I read the passages about Adam & Eve it does not state that they were the ONLY people on earth, just that they were the FIRST. Eishh....

  • Clive.D.Buckley - 2012-03-06 16:26

    What this school is doing (and the parents) is tantamount to child abuse. If I had the funds, I would lay a civil suit against this school. Absolutely disgusting.

      Hugo - 2012-03-06 17:30

      pity you dont :)