Christian party: ANC must leave God alone

2011-05-10 12:00

Johannesburg - The Christian Democratic Party has called on the ANC not to draw parallels between voting for the governing party and carrying out God's will.

“We insist that the ANC stops this blasphemy. God is not a political gimmick,” CDP leader Theunis Botha said in a statement on Tuesday.

The party, which has councillors in the Johannesburg and Tshwane metros, felt the ANC was showing "impertinence" by comparing the Freedom Charter, a document which sets out aspirations of equality, and the Bible, a text which documents Christian history and beliefs.

This was an attempt by the ruling party to portray itself as Christian and saintly, said Botha.

He complained it was doing this at the same time as not scrapping laws which permit abortion, gambling and pornography.

The party raised such objections before, with the latest statement being in response to Energy Minister Dipuo Peters' reported comments in Mossel Bay that principles of the Freedom Charter can be found in the Bible.

  • GT - 2011-05-10 12:06

    This from a party that has Christian in its name and sells itself on having religious values. God is not a gimmick for the ANC, but you even have the cross on your posters. The irony is lost on them, so is the hypocrisy.

      Felix - 2011-05-10 12:18

      My thoughts exactly! LMAO

      JMan - 2011-05-10 12:18


      rusteemax - 2011-05-10 12:27

      Ha Ha, excellent, was thinking the same thing, well said...

      Lennox - 2011-05-10 12:32

      I think what the ACDP is trying to say is that the ANC is only using this now to get more votes(a voting gimmick), it is not a party known for having Christian values, whereas the ACDP is exactly that(not a new thing now for them to get votes).

      eyrie - 2011-05-10 12:37

      there's a difference in saying you have christian values and aspirations than saying you are foreordained by God and carrying out his will-the one says you are infallible and the other says you strive to have certain values

      YourNightmare - 2011-05-10 12:43

      the biggest con is having christian parties themselves... this is a saying that the Lord gave us the strength to defeat appartheid and gave us his blessing to rule this country forever....

      Wolraad Woltemade - 2011-05-10 12:51

      @ GT - The difference is that the party's doctrine is based on Biblical principles, and not favourable, or political correct principles - Whether you and I like it or not, there is a difference between the two! The one has laws directly contrary to the Bible, i.e. #1. Abortion laws - The helpless is not protected but the will of the parents. #2. Death penalty - He who sheds the blood of another, by man his blood must be shed. #3. Greed policies etc etc, to name but a few. The ANC is NOT a Christian Party, but a humanist party. Just because we are unconfortable with Christian laws, does'nt make it any less Christian law... The ANC is as little a Christian Party as little as the Christian Democratic Party is a Islamic or Jewish pary... Do not profess yourself to be a Christian Party if you are not, that's all what the guy is trying to say... I fully agree with this Botha dude, it is acoording to Christian law blatent blasphemy, and will be treated as such in the afterlife, finish and klaar... Let God be the judge on Earth of those whom wishes him to be their judge. For the rest, let them wait to see if there is a judgement in the afterlife or not. "WITH THEIR MOUTHS AND LIPS THEY CLAIM MY NAME, BUT THEIR HEARTS ARE FAR FROM ME." "LET THEIR FRUITS (DOCTRINE) BE THE FACTOR WHEREBY THEY ARE JUDGED." One cannot profess God's favour (any God) if God's laws is not placed above the laws based on our desire (political correct.) God's laws does'nt change!

      AmandaWhereTo - 2011-05-10 12:57

      That's a load of bull GT. I don't vote ACDP but they are saying that they have Christians values and belief systems which is derived from Christian morals, which is exactly the same as any party manifesto. Please tell me when the ACDP have ever said "they will reign until Jesus comes?" or "if you vote for the opposition you will go to hell"...? The issue is that the ANC are morally corrupt and do not harbour Christian beliefs as an organisation, so they are mocking the belief system of millions. The ACDP have not used Jesus or God in a blasphemous sense, rather they are promoting their value system to be used in government. Think about this stuff carefully before you try be clever in public. Some other fools might actually listen to your crap.

      GT - 2011-05-10 12:59

      Thanks, I will take my chances. Personally I would rather be judged on earth by a judge who rules by mans laws. You clearly prefer to be judged by the pulpit. The afterlife can wait until I am... dead.

      Mulciber - 2011-05-10 13:16

      There is a difference between the two parties. The one says it FOLLOWS God, the other one says it IS God.

      Crazy Ivan - 2011-05-10 13:20

      Your free to have your beliefs GT but I would still question if they will be the same at your deathbed...things always change when the finality of death is on ones doorstep, dont just burn a bridge until your 100% sure.

      Matt - 2011-05-10 13:22

      @ Wolraad - if I could find you on FB, I'd send a friend request

      paulmandlankosi - 2011-05-10 14:30

      To correct you guys, it's not the ACDP here, it is CDP. These are two different parties.

      BoerByChoice - 2011-05-10 17:29

      @GT, ok so by your logic God can be part of our lives just not in politics? How ironic considering politics is what decides the rules by which we must live by. What is hypocrytical is when people who profess to be christians (millions in SA) vote for non christian paries like the DA! Amazing how we are christian 364 days a year, except voting day, then we do not mind voting for secular parties like the DA or ANC.

  • bafana.skosana - 2011-05-10 12:15

    God is for all of us, no one owns him, everyone has a right to talk about him/her,

      eyrie - 2011-05-10 12:39

      noone has the right to claim ownership which is what the ANC are doing

      Wolraad Woltemade - 2011-05-10 12:54

      The God of the ANC (the party, not a individual here and there within the party) is not the God of the Bible, otherwise Biblical laws would've governed the principles of the Party!

      Matt - 2011-05-10 12:57

      @ Bafana - I agree, God belongs to all of us. But the ANC is doing very evil things and then claiming Jesus supports them. This is total blasphemy, which is the 1 unforgivable sin as per the Bible (Matt 12:30-31)

      Damask - 2011-05-10 13:37

      yay for Matt and Wolraad :)

      Matt - 2011-05-10 14:24

      Yay back Damask :-)

  • x - 2011-05-10 12:16

    God belongs exclusively to the ADCP clearly!

      Wolraad Woltemade - 2011-05-10 12:57

      You MISS the point! The ANC is using "the name of God" in a disrespectfull manner for their own advantage... This is blasphemy. You can't pull God out when it suits you... God (or Christ) is never mentioned or honoured in the ANC's policies, nor the DA's for that matter - That's all, you cannot profess yourself to be a Christian Party if your values are not based on Christian laws... It is only common sense!

      x - 2011-05-10 13:09

      When it comes to religion common sense goes out the window.

      Valis - 2011-05-10 13:58

      No Wolraad Woltemade, YOU are missing the point. The whole thing is moot, there are no gods, no invisible beings that can do magic, it's all delusional.

      Matt - 2011-05-10 14:25

      @ Valis - but you're wrong. We have this concept called "millions/billions of years". With that, the scientifically impossible magically becomes fact.

  • ActNow - 2011-05-10 12:18

    ANC must leave all of us alone, Pleeeaaasseeeee!

      marguerite - 2011-05-10 17:29

      thats hillarious..hehe

  • Gorilla - 2011-05-10 12:21

    Just a thought, but does the Christian Party have any rights to "God" that they can ask this of anyone?

      Wolraad Woltemade - 2011-05-10 12:59

      Everybody has rights to ask of God - Not everybody has the right to profess their laws to be governed by God's will if it is not based on God's laws! IT IS COMMON SENSE!

      AmandaWhereTo - 2011-05-10 13:03

      They have a right to not have their beliefs needlessly mocked in public by the highest office in the land. The same office that is meant to promote public harmony and tolerance. JZ is not a Christian matey. Even if he was, that would contravene Christian values. And according to the Bible, it was "God" who asked this of people, not the ACDP. You should read stuff more.

      Gorilla - 2011-05-10 13:18

      This is what is wrong with christians, they think that their views are paramount and that everyone else are beneath them. Common sense you say? I think that it your beliefs are far from sensible.

      Steve Wonderboy - 2011-05-10 13:31

      I'm just waiting for Zuma to announce that they are bigger than Jesus.

      AmandaWhereTo - 2011-05-10 13:38

      So by asking people not to mock their religion you think Christians think that "their views are paramount"...? There's another lesson in the Bible about taking the log out of your eye before taking out the speck in your brother's. You're forcing your points on everyone else. Believing in nothing is still a belief, sorry to say. And yes, beliefs such as "love your neighbor", "do unto others", "do not murder", and generally fear judgement for a morally corrupt life, are TOTALLY far from sensible...

      Matt - 2011-05-10 14:30

      @ Amanda - too right, and atheists fail to realise this (or try their hardest to forget). They deny the existence of God with religious conviction. They try to convince everyone they can that God does not exist, with religious zeal. They use evolution/big bang as the explanation for everything, and "it's a fact". Without these theories, they cannot be atheists. Evolution has become the religious doctrine of atheists. They have to BELIEVE it to be true, just like those of religion believe in God. When you try to argue with an atheist on his own turf, often the response boils down to the concept of "I'm smart, you're dumb". Whether you embrace it or run for it, you cannot escape religion. Sorry guys :-)

  • Gollywogman - 2011-05-10 12:29

    Erm... Guys, this isn't difficult to understand. The CDP is a party that seeks to lead according to Biblical principles, submitting and depending on God. Their accusation against the ANC isn't that they may not do the same. The ANC are erroneously and blasphemously using creative Biblical ties to promote their political agenda. They don't care about the Bible, nor are their comparisons to the Bible anywhere near correct. THAT's the accusation! If the ANC really did trust in God and the Bible, that would be GREAT! Please understand what's going on in these articles before calling the wrong set of people a bunch of hypocrites.

      Matt - 2011-05-10 12:52

      This comment summarises the whole issue 100% - can't really add to this! Good show

      Wolraad Woltemade - 2011-05-10 13:02

      The ANC is in effect proclaiming to be representatives of Biblical law, when in fact they are not - Seems like people are not very understanding of what they are trying to do... They are trying to mislead the people! In the old Testament this would have been called false Prophet... (Similar to what is mentioned in revelations!) It's blatent Blasphemy - Wolf in Sheep clothing, something like that. Sugar coated words lacking substance!

      GT - 2011-05-10 13:15

      You want free speech but would deny it as soon as it encroaches on your space. Typical. Don't you have a horse to go and drown?

      Matt - 2011-05-10 13:17

      @ Wolraad - what I don't get though is that the ANC send people to churches to spout this nonsense, and not once do you hear of a member of the congregation standing up and shouting "Charlatan!". They should.

      Steve Wonderboy - 2011-05-10 13:35

      @Matt what do you expect from ignorant weaklings? In South Africa people are too used to seeing bad things happen and doing nothing. That is why they find it amazing when someone actually takes a stand. Come across this problem all the time but I refuse to be silenced.

      Matt - 2011-05-10 13:39

      @ Steve - true I guess... glad you refuse to be silenced. I have the same attitude and boy do atheists get irritated by me. But I'm OK with that :-)

  • Bloodbane - 2011-05-10 12:40

    you all seem to be missing the point. first off, there is no god so that point is mute. however what they are saying is stop saying you'll god to hell if you dont vote ANC stop saying god choose zuma and the ANC and stop saying the ANC will lead to jesus returns... no other party including the christian party has ever said anything like that.. ANC is guilty people into vote for them and gulible idiots are falling for it

      Matt - 2011-05-10 12:55

      @ Bloodbane - most of your comment is spot on. But... "you all seem to be missing the point. first off, there is no god so that point is mute" And you say this with such authority! Not speaking on behalf of the 80-90% of citizens who believe in one, that's for sure... suppose you knew 50% of everything, would it be possible that God is in the 50% that you don't know about?

      AmandaWhereTo - 2011-05-10 13:07

      "There is no god so that point is mute" - You have no proof, so your point is mute. (unless you somehow understand everything in the universe, like: what existed before time? Or: What is the universe expanding into?) But the rest of what you say has moral merit ;)

      Vaal Donkie - 2011-05-10 13:08

      There is also no spoon.

      Matt - 2011-05-10 13:29

      @ GT - thanks for the comment but neither Amanda or I are called Christ. Christians believe "in the beginning, God" and atheists believe "in the beginning, dirt...". Both are not provable. That's why I love the creation v evolution debate, because many things can be shown or proven with the Bible, the book atheists mock as a fairytals story. Still, the issue here today is the misuse of God for political purposes.

      Bloodbane - 2011-05-10 13:32

      @Matt - ofcourse I say it with authority, wouldnt if I said it in a way that sounded unsure..... AmandaWhereTo time is a man made concept, universe is expanding into nothing, nothing that becomes something... there is also no proof that god exists :)

      Bloodbane - 2011-05-10 13:39

      @Matt, but what was there before the beginning, how did the beginning come to begin.. Love this debate aswell.

      Damask - 2011-05-10 13:40

      @Matt and Amanda please ignore GT, just pray for him. @Bloodbane, while I disagree with your comment, you mean "moot" not "mute". If you want to be taken seriously, please construct your comments in a logical way and remove all grammatical and spelling errors.

      AmandaWhereTo - 2011-05-10 13:44

      You have no proof, you tool. And where did I say that Christians have proof as well? Please point it out. Hmmm, it's not there is it... I'm agnostic you cretin. Google it. I'm saying you can't prove anything either way, so saying that there is no God is mute.

      Matt - 2011-05-10 13:44

      @ Bloodbane - "time is a man made concept" Funny you should say that, because "time" is the one thing atheists require to make their theories sound vaguely plausible. Without "loads of time" it all sounds like a fairytale - a princess kissing a frog to become a prince + millions of years = suddenly science. And from a Biblical point of view, time is mentioned in the third word of the Bible already. "universe is expanding into nothing, nothing that becomes something" And how did nothing become something? How did a situation of nothing, not even 1 molecule, suddenly turn into the dot/nebula that caused the Big Bang?

      AmandaWhereTo - 2011-05-10 13:47

      Sorry, 'moot'. You've given me some stupid.

      Bloodbane - 2011-05-10 13:54

      @Damask yes profesor (damn dont think I spelt that right) funny how spelling and grammar have no real meaning other than when someone cant discount your argument and needs to find something to say.... well done. @AmandaWhereTo - Ah I'm so impressed you figured out what google is, no are you being like this to make mommy or daddy upset, did you learn about agnostics yesterday and are now trying to look clue... good for you Matt, the only sensible one here so far, didnt say evolution has all the answer, what I like about it is at least they are looking for the answer's instead of just saying "god did it" same question how did nothing create god, or was he there all the "time" problem is humans need a begining and an end.... we'll get the answer's one day :)

      AmandaWhereTo - 2011-05-10 13:57

      Ye, what Matt said...

      AmandaWhereTo - 2011-05-10 14:05

      Bloodbane, you completely missed the point of absolutely everything I was saying. Congrats. Your misinterpretation is truly colossal, and quite frankly, impressive. I'm saying that people who say there is no God are have no proof. Likewise, Christians can't prove the existence of God either. I was refuting the point made by GT, and agreeing with your debate, numbnut. Yes I know how to use Google, I've got 2 degrees in the field which says I can. I also have about 6 courses in Philosophy which dealt with precisely this type of argument, and how to interpret philosophical, religeous and sociological issues. So thanks for condescending in the wrong direction.

      Matt - 2011-05-10 14:18

      @ Bloodbane. That's the thing. One can blindly say "God did it". Personally, I'm a Yorkshireman and one thing about my original culture is "we tell it like it is". The last thing we do is blindly accept anything :-) and I grew up in Holland, where NOBODY blindly accepts anything - every little thing becomes a national debate! Other atheists, please block your ears for a second :-) Bloodbane, if you never watched or knew about this one, watch some Hovind - you'd be stunned. Atheists love to hate him, but he definitely gives proof for many things mentioned in the Bible, besides totally dispelling evolution. Stuff is a bit hard to get in SA, but heck it's copyright-free so go to and go mad Like, here's one for you. There are 6 types of evolution. Micro-evolution aka Divergent Evolution is true, no argument. This means, a kind produces after its own kind, as the Bible says. So a dog (canine) can produce a variety of dogs down the line, but is still a dog (canine). But man coming from ape, via soup and rock, nope. Macro, Organic (aka abiogenesis), Stellar, Chemical and Cosmic Evolution are 100% unproven and scientifically impossible. To bridge a kind producing a kind, and a kind producing a different kind, you require 1) "millions of years", 2) magic, 3) a vivid imagination.

      Matt - 2011-05-10 15:24

      Bloodbane's gone quiet - hope he/she is on that site getting documentaries to watch :-)

      Bloodbane - 2011-05-10 15:35

      @AmandaWhereTo - yes I reallised I missed the point but hey when you on a roll just continue with it :), just seeing how far I could push your buttons. I get bored easily. Matt, sorry actually lost the site, was busy with poloy donkey and zizzo snr on another topic, plus I actually have a job that sometimes gets in the way. I'll have a look at his stuff, but if it's anything like what I've seen before it the same old "you can't prove it there fore it isnt true, but the stuff I can't prove is better than yours so believe me" still it allways amuses me seeing what crap other people fall for...(sorry cant resist taking a stick and poking the wasps nest just to see what happens) Bottom line is we all have our own beliefs and no one will change that... mines just right :)

      ocon777 - 2011-05-10 16:01

      depends what your view of God is and how you understand God. Some people just refuse to understand. But I agree with part 2 of your argument.

      Matt - 2011-05-10 16:03

      @ Bloodbane - welcome back :-) was having a laugh myself on the "Afrikaans music isn't selling" story. "plus I actually have a job that sometimes gets in the way. " LOL me too "I'll have a look at his stuff, but if it's anything like what I've seen before it the same old "you can't prove it there fore it isnt true, but the stuff I can't prove is better than yours so believe me" Trust me - these shows are way beyond that :-) When I first saw them, I was a brand-new Christian but very much into evolution. Before then, I was a staunch atheist. This dude was a former science teacher and gives loads of science, but also throws in jokes to keep it fun. The main ones on the site are Creation Seminars; careful with getting them as they're something like 500mb each :-) but well worth it and better than importing them on DVD at R300 each

  • WiseOwl2 - 2011-05-10 12:42

    ANC = GOD ?

      Matt - 2011-05-10 12:48

      Apparently... JZ decides if you go to heaven or hell. wondering if he decides the fate too of his many wives and mistresses... I could be wrong - are you Fallon?

      Wolraad Woltemade - 2011-05-10 13:10

      I'll rather take my chances behind Christ - Not very trusting of Zuma's abbility in this regard... Sorry, just my opinion.

      Matt - 2011-05-10 13:15

      @ Wolraad - amen! btw is the ACDP worth voting for? I ask because I don't know who to vote for. DA has great delivery but supports for abortion and "unconventional marriage" and I can't give my vote to a party supporting those 2 things. But I can't get hold of the ACDP to ask them. I asked the FF+ the same thing, as they claim "Christian values" - no response, so I gather they don't want my vote then

      IandI - 2011-05-10 13:18

      Maybe JZ should promise his male supporters that if they vote ANC and go to heaven, they will have 72 concubines and a coupla state tenders waiting for them. Throw in a luxury german limo and even communists will want to go to ANC heaven.

      Margaret2 - 2011-05-10 15:10

      @ Matt, Both the ACDP and the Freedom Front are against abortion and homosexuality based on Biblical principles. This info is on their websites.

      Matt - 2011-05-10 15:30

      Thanks Margaret! I did have a look on their sites, but hey I have glasses for a reason ;-) Now, which of the two to consider...

      BoerByChoice - 2011-05-10 17:37

      @matt - it seems nowadays the ANC decides our fate, and who live and dies in SA. So I guess having power over life and death has gone to Zuma's head.

  • ji - 2011-05-10 12:45

    what do the un-crowned animals know about God anyway .

  • Sho Fukamachi - 2011-05-10 12:50

    If we all take up arms, and aim directly at each corrupt ANC member, this country, and the world, will be a better place. These monsters should not be allowed to live among the rest of society.

      YourNightmare - 2011-05-10 13:15

      so why dont you? please just give us an excuse thats all we want

      Gatvol - 2011-05-10 13:27

      Are there enough guns around?

      Bloodbane - 2011-05-10 13:33

      @YourNightmare - tell me where and when, you and me, or if you scared bring the rest of the criminal ANC with you.... we'll settle this and the world will be rid of you once and for all......

      Steve Wonderboy - 2011-05-10 13:42

      @YourMildlyAnnoyingSnooze If we were to do that you guys would be running around like headless chickens. To be honest most people black or white couldn't give a rats ass about politicians.

      DieBaas - 2011-05-10 14:05

      @yournightmare(pfft) BITCH PLEASE!! you will be the first one showing your white heels you tit.

      Matt - 2011-05-10 14:09

      Is it just me, or are we doing just fine with racial integration and mutual respect, till the ANC comes along and plays various race cards?

  • Matt - 2011-05-10 12:50

    I've actually been considering a vote for the ACDP next week, but for the love of God I cannot get hold of them to ask questions about their manifesto - "Christian values" is way too vague for my liking. Yeah, the ACDP are right though - ANC must stop misusing God to win votes with people. ACDP have always said they astrive for Christian values and hold God paramount; that's not misuse because they don't say that thay ARE God or have celestial powers, unlike the ANC where JZ is one step away from claiming just that.

  • Gollywogman - 2011-05-10 12:59

    Just to point out everyone... It's the CDP led by Theunis Botha spoken about here; not the ACDP which is led by Kenneth Meshoe.

      Matt - 2011-05-10 13:12

      Thanks for clearing that up - I was wondering where the A went to! so there are 2 parties with similar names? Darn that's confusing!

  • Robert Manthe - 2011-05-10 13:02

    I want to start a political party, called KORP. Knights of the Old Republic Party. We believe in the protection of the weak, the ideals of Federation, fighting corruption, economical transparency, resisting the dark forces with well trained Jedi and promoting fair trade among the alliances. I just need to speak to my mate Yoda on how to set it up. BRB.

      Matt - 2011-05-10 13:13

      Just make sure the voters can spell, or else they may vote for COPE by mistake :-)

      Brad - 2011-05-10 13:17

      Lol! Considering how much of a joke SA Politics really is, your idea isn't all that far-fetched... I'll vote for KORP. N I'll get the Ninja Turtles to supply you with Nunchucks and head-bands. Kowabunga dude!!!

      Matt - 2011-05-10 15:31

      @ Brad - sorry, the Ninja Turtles are taken already. Look closely at JZ...

      Noctis - 2011-05-10 20:00

      May the force be with.

  • idontknow - 2011-05-10 13:25


      Matt - 2011-05-10 13:33

      They don't claim to.

      Bloodbane - 2011-05-10 13:35

      god doesnt exist... and if he did ANC would be going downstairs, not up

      Matt - 2011-05-10 13:36

      God loves the ANC? No, I don't think that God would approve of a party that condones the murder of unborn babies, or uses racism to divide those whom God created equal and in His image. Nor do I believe God would support a party that aligns with the Communist Mänifestö (for some reason every time I mention the CM, comments get deleted) which is 100% the opposite of Bible teaching. Nor would God give backing to a leader who openly has affairs, fathers illegitimate children and is unrepentant. Nor would God ever give one jot of support to a hate-mongerer like Juju.

  • Wolraad Woltemade - 2011-05-10 13:27

    Geezzzz!!!!!!!!!! The above arguments are OFF TARGET! Whether there is a God or not is not the issue here! The issue here is that the ANC profess their Policies are representing Christian Biblical laws, when it is not, that is it, nothing more, nothing less! They are trying to persuade people that they represent their God's laws - GT you are deliberately trying to misconstrue your intentions - Amanda, wipe the dust off your feet, this guy already made his mind on his believe system up, he is messing with you trying to disrepute the objective here!

      Matt - 2011-05-10 13:48

      @ Wolraad - this often happens on - there are atheists out there who HAVE to tell the world that 1) there is no God and 2) the Bible is made up, at the very first opportunity. Even on an article about ID fraud! Sounds like religious zeal to me. They probably won't change their views and by all means they're allowed to religiously believe that religion is bad... but heck we can't sit here and let them insult our Lord either.

      Bloodbane - 2011-05-10 13:59

      it called bordem, and yes I know I'm the one who started this with my comment "there is no god" but honestly I was just bored and through it would spice up the topic!?

      Matt - 2011-05-10 14:03

      @ Bloodbane - hmm but then there are keen debaters like myself - last one caused over 600 comments on 1 article, lasted 2 days - lovely! Quote attributed to a Russian astronaut (atheist): Either there IS a God, or there isn't. Both possibilities are frightening. True - if there IS a God, He created us, then He must obviously have some rules and we need to to learn what they are, and carry them out. If there ISN'T a God, we're hurtling through space at 66,000 miles an hour and nobody is in charge!

  • Da@Ismile - 2011-05-10 13:31

    True Christians should not be the part of any political organisation, so say the Bible “WE ARE NOT THE PART OF THIS WORLD”. Whether ANC, DA or PAC is doing it right or not it is not their problem, they should stay away from politics. I hope they are waiting for their own Government, the one that they are praying for: Our father who is in haven, Your kingdom come.............................................

  • Wolraad Woltemade - 2011-05-10 13:32

    Howsit Matt - Personally I am hesitant of Christianity in Politics, as humans tend to make stuff corrupt to suit their own selfish needs as you know... But I guess it depends - Al three of them is better to vote for than to vote for the "devil" I suppose... LOL. Personally - if you are serious about Christian values , and Christian values only, in governement, then al three of them is good - All three represent Christian Law in their creed... (Not Greed, LOL) That does'nt make them Christians though, it only makes them Governemnt officials who practice Christian laws above Human will. Thats all! :)

      Bloodbane - 2011-05-10 13:44

      but then you come down to what is christian law and which version of christianity??? botten line is there is no law other than man made law. IF (and this is a big if) there was a god his views have not been imprtant in making any of these so call christian laws. they are all man made to suit spesific times and groups of people. spereration of church and state should remain paramount and there should be no religion in politics.

      Matt - 2011-05-10 13:52

      Howzit back! Politics and faith - what about King David :-) but look, even when a country tried to be Christian, it failed - comes down to humans and the love of money. The USA was founded on the idea that the State cannot influence the Church, but the Church could influence the State. Today, they have the 501c3 law which dictate that if churches don't preach whatever the US government prescribes, they lose their tax-free status. I suspect SA has something similar because some ministers have some very unbiblical responses to taxing questions...

      Matt - 2011-05-10 13:58

      @ Bloodbane. Man-made laws, such as: do not kill; do not commit adultery; do not lie (perjury) - hmm now where did those come from? Exodus, methinks In a world without God, where there is survival of the fittest and natural selection, how do you develop morals? If the naturalist process is for the stronger to survive at the expense of the weaker, what evolutionary process made the difference between "survival of the fittest" and "do not kill"? Or, in an environment where the stronger species need to procreate to ensure the stronger species carries on, at what stage did we change from "breed away" to "do not commit adultery"? And, if we are allegedly 3-million years on this earth, how did we develop morals, as well as the intelligence to build entire nations, whereas the "older" crocodile still sits in the river waiting for its next meat? (with the exception of the NP being led by die Groot Krokodil, lol)

      x - 2011-05-10 14:58

      Yes Matt atheists have no morals. Err.. hang on... considering the state of the world maybe it is the other way around?

      Matt - 2011-05-10 15:15

      @ X - I didn't say that atheists have no morals. Of course they do. I merely asked where they got their morals from. As humanism teaches that 1) we must be God because there is no god, 2) there are no absolutes (question - are you absolutely sure), I think that's a fair question. Answer? either: 1) they just use the age-old morals that came from religion in the first place; 2) they decide for themselves what is right and wrong - this is the thinking which is why we have so many problems in the world - the perpetrator decides at the time that the evil they're about to commit is right in his/her own eyes.

  • Jeff - 2011-05-10 13:50

    "principles of the Freedom Charter can be found in the Bible." ... but then, most principles of apartheid can be found in the bible too.

      Noctis - 2011-05-10 20:11

      On the contrary, most priciples of apartheid can be traced to Social Darwinism,of which Darwin himself was a practitioner. I recommend Mein Kampf for a nauseating read (and some insight) if you are able to get an english translation. I am rather curious though, whereabout in the Bible can most of these principles of apartheid be found?

  • Valis - 2011-05-10 13:55

    Oh please, they're both delusional. Believing there's an invisible man living in the sky that can do magic, sheer lunacy!

      Matt - 2011-05-10 14:07

      20 billion years ago, nothing exploded. 4.6 billion years ago the earth was formed. 3.9 billion years ago it cooled down. It rained on the rocks for millions of years and the rock turned to primordial soup. The soup came alive, and after loads of evolution apes turned into humans. Now THAT is lunacy sir.

      Anthothiyahu - 2011-05-10 14:08

      And the housefly said,"There is no such thing as a human being!"

      Steve Wonderboy - 2011-05-10 14:23

      @Matt could not have said it better myself.

      Matt - 2011-05-10 14:35

      Thanks Steve. I'm still waiting for an atheist to tell me I don't understand evolution or big-bang. They're a bit slow today ;-)

      Matt - 2011-05-10 14:37

      @ Anthothiyahu - so simple, yet so clear. Great one brother! *and after denying the human, the fly got swotted*

      x - 2011-05-10 14:59

      Oh please not this debate again...

      Matt - 2011-05-10 15:20

      @ X - lol! Simple. If there is a story that touches people of religion, and atheists didn't immediately jump at the chance to preach the gospel of godlessness, some of us wouldn't keep responding in defense. But if they keep mocking people of religion along the line of "there is no god", "fairytales", well then somewhere along the line you can expect a response can't you... and as God/Jesus/Bible would be the "fairytale" attacks of choice for the atheist, "rock-soup-ape-you" is the "fairytale" response.

  • Boer-Nation - 2011-05-10 14:12

    The fact of the matter is that neither the DA nor the ANC have put the Christian God as their foundation for policies/laws/strategies or used Him as their measuring staff. Neither can say they are accountable to His will, but rather the political parties tend to reflect the will of the people of the country - a reflection of their true political persuasion and affiliation. Just read their manifestos and policies… if they were truly Christian (and had any form of reverence for God) they would mention Him by name. They would clearly give Him glory and unashamedly take a stance on morality and ethics – they do not!!!! So it should be to no-one’s surprise that corruption, rape, murder, theft and moral decay of our society is taking place… the Devil is clearly having an influence here… he’s laughing at the souls he is reaping. So who are really the fools? Is it the political clowns who say one thing but do another… or is it the voter’s who: claim to know better, claim to want better, and claim to have moral fibre. Don’t blame the cat for not barking if you think feeding it dog food would change it. If your political party is more focussed on earthly principles than Godliness then giving them your Christian vote is not going to change it. Actions speak louder than words… for both political parties and voters.

      Wolraad Woltemade - 2011-05-10 14:23


      Matt - 2011-05-10 14:39

      @ Boer Nation - brilliant! We see this in America - both parties are ALWAYS carrying on with "GOD bless America". Do they know which God they mean though? Nope - they don't call Him by name. (besides the fact both parties have some greatly anti-Christian policies, and there's a history of presidents and candidates being involved in the Masonic Lodge - Masons have to reach the 33rd Degree before learning their god is Lucifer)

  • springbokke - 2011-05-10 14:14

    The only readable thing was from Matt...thanks matt......... All I can say is that politics is such and evil #$&^%$% thing, come ..speak on some thing Super rugby

      Matt - 2011-05-10 14:23

      *blush* you're welcome! Trivia - sports is used as a tool to divert people's attention from critical issues - part of Karl Marx's "10 wäys to överthrow a stäte". That said, wow Liverpool were awesome last night :-)

  • I <3 SA - 2011-05-10 14:26

    For goodness sake! Can we all just please keep politics and religion seperate: its not related at all! But funny though too see that the ANC is now using all of the other parties political manifesto's in conjunction with the Freedom Charter :-)

      Wolraad Woltemade - 2011-05-10 14:44

      For some people Religion, or rather, doing the will of their respective gods is reflected in every aspect of their lives... It is therefore not a qualified statement, as for some - God should be pleased in all aspects of their personal lives... Just a thought.

      I <3 SA - 2011-05-10 20:40

      it is a qualified statement as we live in a hybrid nation with who knows how many religions, if we all practised the same religion then surely you can maybe string religion and politics together, but we don't

  • fannyadams - 2011-05-10 14:37

    There is only ONE (1) God and that is our Heavenly Father who already knows the outcome of these elections. He is the only Judge here. To all you guys out there that do not believe in my Heavenly Father - I'm praying for you.

      Matt - 2011-05-10 14:41

      @ fannyadams - amen!

  • DebbyLou - 2011-05-10 15:31

    Christianity and politics do not belong together! One cannot talk these two things in the same room or breath! Politics is all about lies and stealing and corruption - religion is not!

  • ian.d.samson - 2011-05-10 17:13

    Blasphemy alright! Some people are more willing to listen to the ANC and the Freedom Charter than they are to God's Word! Just proves end-times apostasy!

      paulmandlankosi - 2011-05-10 18:04

      Now you believe in fairy tales

  • maxmashabane - 2011-05-10 17:52

    Let's stop using the word of God for political campains.

  • Gatvol-White - 2011-05-10 19:07


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