6 churchgoers die in Polokwane crash

2012-02-25 21:17

Johannesburg - Six people died and nine others were injured when a bakkie overturned on the N1 highway outside Polokwane on Saturday, paramedics said.

Netcare 911 spokesperson Jeffrey Wicks said the bakkie, carrying churchgoers, veered from the carriageway and flipped onto its side before rolling repeatedly.

"The wreckage eventually came to rest and many were flung from the bin of the vehicle as the fibreglass canopy disintegrated... Paramedics arrived at the scene to find six people, some in their teens, had sustained critical injuries and sadly died as a result."

Wicks said the injured were treated on the side of the road before being taken to a nearby hospital.

  • Vuyo - 2012-02-25 21:41

    Oh! my GOD where were you .

      Maggyone - 2012-02-25 21:45

      sad in indeed.i also ask myself the same God really existing?

      Ben - 2012-02-25 22:04

      I believe He does, but so does the devil.

      Mandu Ngcobo - 2012-02-25 22:15

      Ben, isn't god supposed be infinitely more powerfull than the devil? Stopping him should be easy peasy

      Ben - 2012-02-25 22:32

      Nobody promised you an easy life. Suffering is part of it. Remember, those who have the easy life, does it to the detriment of others. Their end will be terrible. Then, He made us, so he can decide when it is time to go.

      Godfrey - 2012-02-26 04:28

      @Ben S What a sad, sad puppy you are. "Suffering" your only life away in the hope of a heavenly afterlife with Jesus. Even the dumb Romans knew better - Live a good life. If there are gods and they are just, then they will not care how devout you have been, but will welcome you based on the virtues you have lived by. If there are gods, but unjust, then you should not want to worship them. If there are no gods, then you will be gone, but will have lived a noble life that will live on in the memories of your loved ones.” — Quote by Marcus Aurelius, Roman emperor (26 April, 121 – 17 March, 180) "Their end will be terrible". You have no evidence for that. You are just saying that to scare the kiddies. Obviously you don't realize that your claim that "Their end will be terrible" is a useless statement? For one thing, it is only true if there actually is life after death. Furthermore, it is of no use for those who are still alive, because it gives us no evidence. It is simply a way of preying on people's fears. It's essentially a modified version of Pascal's Wager. The implicit threat is "you'll find out when you die, and then it will be too late, so you'd better act now." Pascal's Wager fails too, of course.

      Ben - 2012-02-26 07:37

      Godfrey. What you say then is there is nothing other than ourselves. Now you google 'who built the great pyramid'. Then work out for yourselves how the old Egyptians could have done that a thousand years before the first book of the bible was written. Also go visit Sutherland and find out how big the universe is. Come back and tell me WHERE there is no God.

      Godfrey - 2012-02-26 14:42

      @Leonard Bloch No need to shout. Read the headline to the article again. Why does it mention churchgoers if the fact they were god believers is not germane to the story? It does not say "6 people die in Polokwane crash". The writer found it necessary to make the connection so I will comment on that. Why don't you rather try to respond to the issues raised? You cannot, can you? And for that reason you would prefer we did not point out how nonsensical religious belief is.

      Godfrey - 2012-02-26 14:45

      Ben S There is no god anywhere. You seem to think there is. Wow! Where can I see this god? What does he do? When did he last do anything? Evidence please or your god is in your imagination.

      Peter-Peter - 2012-02-27 08:50

      Godfrey, good point about the title. They are like kids with imaginary friends...they ACTUALLY believe, that he is real

  • inwardk - 2012-02-25 21:55

    I don't understand why it is legal to transport people on the back of a bakkie, but all people inside the car must wear seat belts, even the passengers in the back seat. Where is the consistency?

      Ben - 2012-02-25 22:08

      This is illegal in the U.S.A. Unfortunately we are not rich and have to make do with what we have. This is sad but true.

      alansmartSnr - 2012-02-25 22:37

      Even God would not approve of overloading..Try having 16 people in a canopied bakkie and see how well you can control it. That is, to my mind, challenging God. Moral to story, pray at home!

      Godfrey - 2012-02-26 04:21

      @alansmartSnr Praying at home, up a tree, in a church or behind the wheel of an overloaded bakkie are all just as useless - as proved in this case. One hopes that someday sky fairy believers would evolve to the point where they understood that prayers don’t stop bullets, save lives, change reality, or otherwise do anything constructive for anyone.

  • Mandu Ngcobo - 2012-02-25 22:16


  • robbieyahu - 2012-02-25 23:32

    very sad all condolences to the families !!! now is not the time to tell them that their gods did nothing to save them. peace

      Godfrey - 2012-02-26 05:27

      Religion is such a mind virus that the followers can be led to believe anything and reject all that contradicts and exposes the fallibility of their beliefs.

  • Godfrey - 2012-02-26 05:24

    The Christian god is omnipresent and omnipotent. Which means he is everywhere at once (he even knows what each of 7 billion people are thinking at any particular moment). He sees everything, has a plan so he knows what is going to happen next, and is all powerful. So he saw his believing followers setting off in a bakkie to church where they were to going to praise, flatter, thank and beg him. He saw the bakkie was overloaded and knew that it was going to crash. He watched the bakkie overturn and allowed his 6 righteous followers be killed knowing that the surviving families would be irretrievably devastated and would grieve for the rest of their lives. And he did nothing to prevent the accident because he was too damn busy giving millionaire sports competitors an unfair advantage so they can win and become richer. There is something badly, badly wrong with a belief system that can explain this away.

      Jeeves - 2012-02-26 05:46

      Hi Godfrey. What you fail to realize is that people NEED to believe in an unseen world. They need to believe in something bigger than themselves, that they are not alone, that dragons can be slayed and there is a clear divide between good and evil. Mans greatest fear is futility - that we are alone, that there is nothing out there, that we simply are born and die. The reason that not one of the 2.2 billion Christians on this planet will never take you seriously is because you offer no alternative. All you offer is more futility and a life of criticism and skepticism. I read your comments often and would rather hang out with a Muslim, Christian or whatever religion offers me love, hope and acceptance. If there is no God and all religions are false, then all belief systems can be classified as religion. Your religion seems to be one of haughty exclusivism - A religion that ridicules the belief systems of others when they need them most. Like now, when 6 people are tragically killed in an accident. With all due respect sir, you can keep it.

      Moss Molokomme - 2012-02-26 06:41

      Godfrey there is good and evil in the world, Satan and God - Death and life. We r all gonna die. But there is hope in God - who will have All men saved in the end. You may not understand - but u will understand in time. I also don't understand everything and things like this make one to be angry @ God. My believe in Him is still steadfast.

      Ben - 2012-02-26 08:00

      Moss, I think that people make the mistake to think that He looks like us in which case He certainly cannot be everywhere at once. If one thinks of Him as a presence it becomes easier. Godfrey, this does not make me sad and I can assure you that I am a very happy person.

      Simon - 2012-02-26 09:41

      Maybe you should start believing , sometimes he test you , and people like you , stop believing , maybe have faith , 9 live were spared ... what more can I say , keep having faith . If it is your time it is your time and no one can change it , as a paramedic myself , when I save a life , it is threw the hands of God because it is not that persons time. Keep having faith , Maybe do yourself a favour , Watch the movie Faith like potatoes and then you decide for yourself

      Godfrey - 2012-02-26 14:50

      @Jeeves Atheism is not a religion. Atheism simply asserts that there is no god; it has no philosophy or doctrine. But don't worry. Atheism is an intelligence test which you may be able to do eventually. Instead of attacking me (ad hominem) why don't you try to respond to the perfectly reasonable issues I raised?

      Godfrey - 2012-02-26 14:52

      @Moss Molokomme, Simon, Ben S Are you sure the Tooth Fairy is not responsible. You are all making completely unsupported claims. Arguments are not evidence. Arguments need evidence. Arguments are what people fall back on when they have no evidence. No matter how eloquent, elaborate or simply long-winded an argument is, if it has no acceptable evidence at its foundation, then it’s just verbiage. Acceptable evidence is three-dimensional and has mass. It requires no mystical knowledge or ability, and it can be observed by anyone using at least one of the five senses. Show me the evidence, or please stop wasting my time.

      Jeeves - 2012-02-26 15:09

      @Godfrey. My point is that you are consistently attacking any belief system that is not yours - Atheism may not be a religion but it certainly is a belief system. I won't be debating belief systems with you because it is a pointless exercise with anyone. For someone to even remotely deny a belief system is almost impossible, simply too much ego and emotion involved, not to mention the amount of time taken to actually create that belief system. My challenge with you is that you consistently attack anyone who differs with your paradigms... This is in itself fanaticism.

      Godfrey - 2012-02-26 16:44

      @Jeeves Why do I attack religious belief? If the people want to believe in God then they can go right ahead. Worship him/her/it in their homes and churches. Find all the comfort they want from their faith communities, their hymns and their rituals. But while they are at it, they must consider keeping their god out of my community’s science curriculum (i.e., intelligent design/creationism). And out of the country’s medical agenda (i.e., stem cell research, abortion and contraception). And out of the country’s laws (i.e., abortion). Most atheists are happy to live and let live, But, as long as believers insist on pushing their religion into our lives, we have no choice but to push it right back. AND Because people are killed because of their belief in God. Because people kill others because of their belief in God. Because bad public policy decisions are made because people want to follow a God’s will instead of relying on common sense and decency.

      Jeeves - 2012-02-26 21:08

      @Godfrey Where you and I differ greatly is in our understanding of belief systems which one might call 'religion'. Take God out of the picture for a moment and look at the human factor. Humans are the ones who latch onto different belief systems and then act out their interpretation of that belief system. Most Deity based belief systems carry with them strong moral rails which (in my opinion) have helped stem the tide of barbarism and lay down modern law as we understand it. The 10 commandments being one major influencor of world-wide law (including communist nations). Having a deity attached to commands like that really gives them extra punch. All belief systems evolve though. Thus additives will emerge and opinions plus rituals will be added as dogma. God/Allah whoever is not to blame for these additions and neither is the concept of Deity based religion itself. The culprit is the arrogance of man, who will corrupt the purest thing in his pursuit for power. The Jews were not persecuted for their belief system, they were persecuted for their power base and foothold in the German and Russian economies. When moderate Muslims or Christians are persecuted it is usually by fanatics who would use any angle at their disposal to grab (and hold onto) power. Religion is just another version of tribes of old. We used to wipe each other out if tribes differed, this still goes on across the world today. Continued in next panel.

      Jeeves - 2012-02-26 21:23

      @Godfrey continued. In response to your concerns about religions meddling in law etc. With all due respect, who are you to dictate who may and may not express their views regarding laws that affect them directly? They happen to turn to the Bible or Koran for moral guidance whereas you might refer to philosophers or mentors of your own. All logic and fact is subjective, totally at the mercy of perception. Perception changes as information evolves. You call it evolution, they call it revelation. In the end we all have an opinion to express and the beauty of democracy is that both evolutionists and creationists can agree on certain laws which is kind of a fail-safe system. My friend is an Atheist Anarchist who would have 20 wives and 30 concubine underage prostitutes if we did not have moral laws in place to stop him. My other friend is a hard-line Pentecostal Christian who believes any other Christians who do not share his thoughts are going to hell. I think he would actually stone me to death if it were not for laws that state we are all entitled to our own belief systems. Then: Abortion is not a simple matter, it never will be. We will be debating it until medical technology arrives at a place where we can conclusively put both sides of the fence to rest. Some things can not simply be swept under the carpet! And this thinking can be applied to every sphere of differing belief systems. There will always be the moderates and the fanatics in any tribe. It is inescapable!

      Godfrey - 2012-02-27 04:29

      @Jeeves "With all due respect, who are you to dictate who may and may not express their views regarding laws that affect them directly? " I'm sorry but religion IS a joke when you think about it. There's obviously no god, as there is no Apollo, no Thor, no Vishnu, no Rama, no Wodan. no Isis, no gods at all. And an afterlife is also a joke too, about wishful thinking and fear of dying. Believing in gods was very common among our primitive ancestors who didn't know any better. We KNOW better - and laugh at the fools who still believe in gods like they're hypnotized. They have no interest in the truth otherwise they'd be at least a bit sceptical, but they're not. They're so certain. You just have to giggle. The truth is more important than any religion; that's why we cannot help laughing at it, because it brushes truth and enquiry aside - in favour of ancient superstitions. So I say so. Because you want to impose that creepy world view on the rest of society and return us to the dark ages. Sorry, religion does not get a free ride any more.

  • Simon - 2012-02-26 09:35

    God does exist, But at the end of the day you need to do your part . 15 persons in a bakkie , of which 6 killed and 9 injured , come on guys , if you go into war without firearm and armour , do you think you will survive , you need to do your part and think before you act.

      Godfrey - 2012-02-26 15:04

      Then what is your god for if he does not provide such protection? It has occurred to me that in the Bible, the character of God is always telling people what to do and complaining about various things. One of his biggest issues is that the Hebrews don’t love him enough. In the New Testament Jesus whines about how people don’t love God enough. So I have just got to know: why does this god never do anything? Why is this god such a whiny wimp?

  • Milton Chinogwenya - 2012-02-26 09:51

    I dont like the article headline. How can you write '6 churchgoers...'. In christianity churchgoers are those who attend church for the sake of just attending and not for worshiping.

      Godfrey - 2012-02-26 15:05

      That explains it then. The were not true™ Christians so god allowed them to be killed.

  • Chris - 2012-02-26 21:45

    This was a realy bad accident!!

  • Sam - 2012-02-28 20:36

    this church let me keep quiet

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