81% against Pretoria name change

2013-04-14 14:41

Pretoria - The civil rights organisation AfriForum has been informed confidentially that 81% of the participants in the public participation process of the Tshwane Metro Council regarding the changing of Pretoria's name supported the retention of the name as it is.

Only 19% indicated that the name of Pretoria should be changed to Tshwane. The process took place at the end of last year, after the Minister of Arts and Culture, Paul Mashatile, ordered the Metro Council to follow the public participation process and submit a report on the matter to his office.

According to Kallie Kriel, CEO of AfriForum, the legal team for his organisation has already started the process in terms of the Act on the Promotion to Access of Information (Nr 2 of 2000) to demand that the Council and the Minister make the report on the public participation process available to AfriForum.

"AfriForum wants to ensure that the overwhelming support for the retention of Pretoria's name cannot be swept under the rug when the minister makes his decision on the name change," Kriel added.

Kriel said the overwhelming support for Pretoria's name indicates that efforts to change the name of the city are driven by a small group of political ideologists who promote their own agendas at the cost of public opinion.

According to Kriel the support is especially noteworthy if one takes into account the attempts of Metro Council to manipulate the public participation process in order to inflate the support for the proposed name change.

"Not even tactics such as postponing the public meetings where very few supporters of the name change showed up, and the use of intimidation strategies and biased chairpersons at the meetings, could undermine the overwhelming support for Pretoria's name," Kriel said.

Kriel said that the minister will not be able to ignore the overwhelming support for retaining Pretoria's name and the procedural errors made since 2005 during the process to have the name changed, when he makes his decision.

"The legal team for AfriForum is ready to fight any decision in the courts to have Pretoria's name changed," Kriel concluded.

  • Chris Fourie-Lipman - 2013-04-14 14:49

    Do not forget, you are dealing with arrogant ANC officials, sadly the name change will happen, just like the e-toll system!!!

      Dewald P Montgomery - 2013-04-14 15:27

      True that. Only those who do not feel the pinch BY the ANC would propagate things like this. Yet, come the next short supply of electricity, water, etc. they will sing and dance with their ANC t-shirts and "protest" by burning tyres, throwing stones and destroying other people's property.

      NickvanGraan - 2013-04-14 15:36

      81% against the name change is exactly what will make them change it. The more people they can cheese off the better, just to show you who's boss.

      Tums Down - 2013-04-14 16:43

      Haha. Change the name to zumaville.

      Ronald - 2013-04-14 22:33

      DeAndre, it was actually 81% of participants in the public participation process of the Tshwane Metro Council regarding the changing of Pretoria's name that voted, not a survey by Afriforum. Read before commenting. It's not rocket science.

      Dewald P Montgomery - 2013-04-15 06:45

      No, the ANC COUNCIL did the survey in BLACK TOWNSHIPS where they knew there would hardly be WHITE people, whether racist or liberal. Read the news. Back THEN Afriforum already complained about the PLACES these meetings were held.

      Helio Alvaro De Abreu - 2013-04-15 07:44

      DeAndre Sosa - get the facts before making a fool of yourserlf in public. If you want to have the name changed, please volunteer to pay my portion of the money for the change. I think the money could be better spent on poverty, education and HEALTH CARE and reducing the metro debts rather than on the tenders for those in the ANC.

      Dewald P Montgomery - 2013-04-15 10:02

      Perspective: My comment about the "survey" was in response to DeAndre, whose comment now magically appears BELOW my response.

  • Grace Moremi - 2013-04-14 15:04


  • Nokukhanya Ngcongo - 2013-04-14 15:06

    The names of cities & streets shud reflect SA society! We need to avoid having cities & streets being named after people so tht wen a new political party comes in2 power we Dnt hv 2 go thru the process of name change again!

  • maringaxp - 2013-04-14 15:15

    go do nd ask ppl in soshanguve. mamelodi. phelindaba. 99% tshwane

      Mantsho Tlali - 2013-04-14 16:02

      God, terrible spelling

      Dewald P Montgomery - 2013-04-15 14:12

      First of all, Pelindaba isn't IN Pretoria. Second, Soshanguve and Mamelodi were once independent municipalities. They were JOINED to Pretoria because the ANC has this moronic idea that making things bigger (and thereby destroying the municipalities controlled by any other party) and joining non-functioning and bankrupt municipalities (where people sing and dance to protest about bad service delivery) to functioning municipalities (particularly if controlled by an opposition party) and replacing opposition councillors by ANC councillors (which already made those municipalities non-functioning due to focusing on everything BUT service delivery) will magically make things work. As is happening in Midvaal at the moment. As happended when Bronkhorst and Cullinan were joined to Tshwane two years ago. As is the reason why the ANC wants to join the EC and NC back into one with the WC. SO. WHY SHOULD PEOPLE WHO DON'T ACTUALLY LIVE IN THE ACTUAL MUNICIPALITY HAVE A SAY? AND WHY SHOULD PEOPLE WHO WON'T ACTUALLY PAY FOR THE CHANGE, HAVE A SAY? (While people still live in townships named STINKWATER and BLOCK C311?)

      Tsepo Mdlalose - 2013-04-15 15:11

      @maringaxp, 99% are also uneducated. Like you, see!

  • Jacques Krouse - 2013-04-14 15:28

    Then 81% only had an opinion... cANCer will probably go ahead with this anyway, irrespective of what the public say!

  • Roy Chambal - 2013-04-14 15:41

    I never believe in statistics or any survey anyway especially in such controversial up country such SA where people will twist everything to suit them for Headlines making - People will go to Orange farm, Soweto, Kwamashu, etc and conduct survey on on FFP or Helen Zille, as much as they can conduct a survey in Ventersdorp on IFP or ANC, dammit you know the outcome of that don't you??? but if this statistics are anywhere near true then im worried, SA still have too much to do in terms of educating its people mainly the young who are trapped in Liquor, Drugs and dreaming of high life that they did not work for instead of studying their History and heritage in finding out where SA comes from, because if you do not know where you come from i dare u will not know where to. I thought that this name has long been changed kanti what is the issue now??? Pretoria must GO hello Tshwane please, is not about racism is about Freedom, u dnt want to refer your City by the names of your colony that u battle so many years and defeated but i guarantee if DA, IFP, COPE had to be in power tomorrow they would not change names back to old days

      Logic - 2013-04-15 02:09

      other people have rights as well you do realise this, i suppose rights and ethics is all foreign to africa though

  • Lunga - 2013-04-14 15:45

    Seems AfriForum suffers from Short-term memory. Last I heard, the names Pretoria and Tshwane were to be used side by side. Aye caramba.

      Jacyjay's Letsoalo - 2013-04-14 16:07

      @ Lunga, there was a public participation process launched last year for people to decide on the name. Tshwane is the Municipality and Pretoria is the City or Capital City so this right wing organisation merely seeks to retain the name

      Dewald P Montgomery - 2013-04-15 14:14

      Actually, the ANC suffers from short term memory. Because ONE OF THE PEACE AGREEMENTS SIGNED BETWEEN THE NP AND THE ANC WAS NEVER TO CHANGE NAMES WHICH ARE NOT OFFENSIVE, AND NEVER AGAIN TO NAME STREETS, BUILDINGS, AIRPORTS, DAMS, RIVERS AND MOUNTAINS AFTER POLITICANS. You do know what happens if one party breaks his side of an agreement? The agreement becomes NULL AND VOID.

      Chris Noko - 2013-07-01 17:55

      @dewald you are NULL and VOID. You want us to continue using that repulsive name and the repulsive street names your grandfather and forefathers enacted come on man you guys are free to go back to Europe if you even remember where your criminal forefathers came from. One thing you must know is that slowly but surely change is happening be it for the worst for a once shielded white minority it will happen. Whether Afriforum, Dutch forum or whatever organisation you establish resists it, it will still happen it is the way of the world.

  • Baloo Rottie - 2013-04-14 15:48

    I spent some time in Pretoria very recently after an absence of twenty years. In my humble opinion that dump that exists now does not deserve to be called Pretoria. The streets and pavements are in a disgusting state. The STOP signs at many intersections have not been painted for many years. There is litter and neglect in the CBD. I support and encourage a name change; the shyte hole that now exists should be named after some high ranking ANC politician. They're one of a kind!

      Bless Boswell - 2013-04-14 16:30

      Yes, I agree with you. Each and every landmark, street etc that has been renamed is now a disgrace and does not glorify the person whose name it bears. Seen the Helen Joseph lately? I think she would die of shame.

      Dewald P Montgomery - 2013-04-15 06:48

      EXACTLY. The new names fit those who they are named after. Pretoria was once a nice, clean city, with beautiful gardens, sidewalks, working street lights, no rubbish in the streets, no posters on poles, etc. Solomon Mahlangu Street is 'n perfect name for Hans Strydjom Street. I mean uncle Hans would turn in his grave if he saw what that street looks like today. (I do see they're tarring the potholes, though, since the election is coming up next year...)

      Sam Masuku - 2013-04-15 07:37

      I thought I was the only one who noticed how horrible Pretoria CBD looks. Broken and uneven pavements, penis posters and all that rubbish in a capital city of South Africa. Probably that's how Tshwane wanted it to look

  • Mantsho Tlali - 2013-04-14 15:49

    What is this, ANC Time in power is Limited, soon they are going,l am against this name changing, while we still dont have good service delivery where l live, no good roads, no playgrounds, no libraries and Parks and intertainment Area, my place is old and looks terrible under ANC Mafia. Why should l vote for this thugs next Really???

      Angela Banda - 2013-04-15 08:10

      Kikiki , you guys are desparate ne , you even open up profiles with black names . Kikikikiki , I think join the party for this is just the beginning of the ANC. Its not going any where. You think people will forget apartheid because you talk against the ANC . They remember they were once told they were not equal . Heeee , very sorry . Bitterness want help , join the party !!

  • Jacyjay's Letsoalo - 2013-04-14 16:10

    That's good, maybe the ANC will build a new town and call it Tshwane, how abt that? This is just a waste of money and resources. I have asked many old people abt this man called Tshwane and his Role in our history and I get just sketchy stories. So keep the name, Pitoria Maboneng

  • Leslie Erasmus - 2013-04-14 16:13

    Pretoria was a magnificent beautiful city,what it has become since the ANC came to power deserves the name Tswane

  • simon.selahla - 2013-04-14 16:34

    Haw!! They want 2 change everything!!

  • Stewart Croucamp - 2013-04-14 16:38

    Pretoria was a beautiful city. The disgusting state that it is in now deserves to be called Tshwane.

      Clive Cellarius - 2013-04-17 10:00

      I think the original name was Tswene! He, he, he,he!

  • Ncube Tseke - 2013-04-14 16:39

    We urge our government to stop wasting monies on names change and use that monies for service deliveries, as that will also be costly to businesses in the region because of that, for example if a company has already spent 200 000 rands or more on stationary having printed the name of Pretoria on it and other names that have been changed to their documents how much will those companies affected by that gonna used to change those names on their documents and stationary like receipt books and so forth? so let the municipality build new roads and buildings and then name them by freedom fighters rather than wasting millions changing that.

  • konfab - 2013-04-14 16:39

    aww what a pity... Tshwane Boys High has such a nice ring to it :p On a more serious note: I wonder who would get the tender for the vast amount of renaming of all the databases, records etc?. Oh wait, we already know...

      Dewald P Montgomery - 2013-04-15 06:49

      I can just imagine what they will be calling Meisies Hoër...

  • patrick.masseyhicks - 2013-04-14 17:10

    Public opinion means nothing to them. They'll do it anyway

      Dewald P Montgomery - 2013-04-15 06:49

      Yeah. We've seen them in action on e-toll.

  • Tumelo Motloung - 2013-04-14 17:15

    Changing names is just a waste of money,but this is South Africa,who cares,the money is there no matter how little it is, spend it to the last cent.

  • Joalane Mareletse - 2013-04-14 18:22

    whats the point really? nxt time they wil want to change johannesburg.

      Cecil Wright - 2013-04-14 19:31

      They have already changed Johannesburg. It is now like a slum. Filth all over the place

  • Ivan Beers - 2013-04-14 19:05

    STOP changing names of popular places to names which the majority cannot pronounce !

      Adepoju Mosebo - 2013-04-14 20:33

      I dnt think u are in da majority, @Beers!!!! Try to learn to pronounce african words, baba.

      Morne de Swardt - 2013-04-14 22:06

      hahaha thats true I like Youre Comment :D

      Dewald P Montgomery - 2013-04-15 06:50

      Neither are YOU Mosebo. You're NINE DISTINCT AFRICAN CULTURES concocted into believing you're a majority. But you're not. You're made to BELIEVE you are. That's WHY there is tribalism and factionalism in the ANC. Wake up!

  • Cecil Wright - 2013-04-14 19:29

    That's more than enough to make the change. This is the dumb, arrogant ANC a**holes we are talking about. Name changes are far more important than correcting the service delivery problems

  • Adepoju Mosebo - 2013-04-14 20:30

    What's in a name? It was Tshwane before da Voortrekkers arrived! Change the bloody name asap!

      Morne de Swardt - 2013-04-14 22:05

      yeah Yeah yeah whatever Pretoria sounds way beter and P.S. Change your name because its hard toe speak it out

      Ricus Wessels - 2013-04-15 01:37

      Tell all homeless, jobless, schoolless and hungry people that you want the government to spend R1.5 billion on a name change.. If you willing to do that you have no soal, and in my appinion people like you should not even have a say.. As you will lead your own children of a cliff.. If I look at the howl story of apartheid I wonder if the old government brought that in to get rich or to protect them selfs from people with your mentality.

      Dewald P Montgomery - 2013-04-15 06:52

      No. The rightful people lived in the area called WONDERBOOMPOORT. Pretorius didn't settle THERE. He settled in the crater (yes, the collapsed volcano). Those people were raided by Mzilikazi (the Nguni invaders back in the day). They asked Pretorius and his people to HELP them, which he did. THOSE are the raids the ANC makes you believe were against black people in GENERAL. Which isn't true. Regardless, what Pretorius and his people found were kraals built with tree branches and stones, not a city.

      Sam Masuku - 2013-04-15 07:30

      Mr. Tshwane do you know what are the costs of name change? Do you really think we need that? Is this a democracy or a plan to fullfil one's agenda? Its not just about a name change!

  • werner.luitingh - 2013-04-14 21:37

    how do you know, they had no alphabet before they arrived?

  • Bart Onderweegs - 2013-04-15 00:21

    The ANC slogan "a better life for all" should change for next years elections: "A better name for all". That's all they can do, change names. How prosperous can we get?

  • Sam Masuku - 2013-04-15 03:43

    Next time you vote for the anc you'll all have your surnames changed and etolls errected on your driveways. They'll probably want to change the name South Africa to some dead chief of long ago. Go anc you have it your way all the time robbing defenceless year after year with your greed and selfishness

  • Dina Makeke - 2013-04-15 07:01

    It is not really important to change Pretoria's name coz you've already changed the street names.,next time you'll be wanting to change the Province's name.

  • Sibongiseni Ndlangalavu - 2013-04-15 07:34

    change it.this is our time we are the majority party.those people who are against it should just shut the hell up.tshwane is the name we want.whites think they still run this country bloody agent

      Sam Masuku - 2013-04-15 08:26

      Oh is it about white people, or is it about doing the right thing? What about the state Pretoria is in, the pavements, penis posters all over the show? Oh and what about the buildings in schoeman street run by nigerians for prostitution by south african young girls? Have you thought about that dear? Come I tell you! I went to sunnyside police station to findout about this and you what they told me? They said to me there's nothing they can do especially if bribery is involved. Come on! there's a lot Pretoria needs than just a useless name name change. Next time they will errect a tollgate right infront of your driveway, and I'm sure you'll go for it.

      Annelene Meterki Minnie - 2013-04-15 10:42

      I'm with sam on this one...not because i'm white, but when people care more about stupid stuff like a name change instead of people dying of hunger then you know they are ignorant twats like yourself.but you don't care, because you don't have to worry about a damn thing, because it's your time to get everything on a silver don't even know the history about this apparent tshwane guy, yet you would rather prefer that name because you believe Pretoria is an APARTHEID name and anything remotely related to apartheid (even a name) can kill you.

      Sam Masuku - 2013-04-15 15:41

      Thank you Ann, you said it so well dear... Come get a crate of bells

  • Deon van Tonder - 2013-04-15 07:39

    Now what happened to the ANC slogan > The people shall govern"? 81% says they do not want name changes, now what is the mayhs to this. Cabinet says, everyone do?

      Dewald P Montgomery - 2013-04-15 10:08

      The "people" referred to are the type of people who don't generally pay taxes or not to the extent that others do in order to carry the financial burden of pathetic management decisions, didn't pass matric, drink blood and muti before they do crime or protest because it will make them invisible apparently (like those fools at Marikana who did what that "wichdoctor" said), who rape babies believing it will heal AIDS, who shower after having sex with HIV positive girls, who marry twenty women, who believe there's nothing wrong to receive gifts in exchange for political favours, who think history is one sided, who doesn't believe a government should be accountable but should continue to blame the past until kingdom comes (if it comes at all), and who thinks it's okay to breed thirty children even if you can't afford them because you somehow "believe" they represent your wealth and strength, who pray to non existent ancestor spirits, and who torture live animals in ceremonies while doing so. THANK GOODNESS THOUSANDS OF YOUNG SOUTH AFRICANS ARE BREAKING AWAY FROM THIS THINKING.

  • Peter Neil - 2013-04-15 10:15

    sooooooo...lets see how democratic we really are now. Watch this space ppl.

  • AsGodIsMyWitness - 2013-04-18 09:30

    The ANC will find a way to alter these statistics in favour of what *they* want - a name change.

  • Chris Noko - 2013-07-01 17:36

    Change is eminent. I hear our adapted white community talking about history, what history? Is it the history that you glorify at the painful expense of the African people. We cannot protect a legacy born of Hatred no matter the cost. You speak with such disrespect that i wonder why you continue to live in this country. I however support the comments of the cancerous ANC, civil war would have been the only remedy for SA. I wonder what kind of kids you are raising and honestly i hope you are planning on giving them up fo adoption

  • Longile Bongani - 2013-09-26 21:32

    so lets call a spade a spade shall we. Pretoria, like every westernized and "civilized" city in South Africa was planned, masterminded, created and paid for by white people and therefore quite obviously deserves the name it was given by white people. Because black people have seen these wonderful cities and moved in in there millions and then bred by their tens of millions, gives them absolutely no right whatsoever to claim these places as there own. Finished and klaar

  • Andy Sim - 2013-10-04 16:52

    Can I point out to the SA Gov that Pretoria is known world wide and 90% will not have a clue where "Tshwane" is.

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