CDP defends Mogoeng's values

2012-03-17 21:07

Johannesburg - Liberals and atheists are keeping their eyes on Chief Justice Mogoeng Mogoeng waiting for him to do something objectionable, the President of the Christian Democratic Party said on Saturday.

Theunis Botha was reacting to a Thursday report that Mogoeng had sent an email instructing judges to attend a leadership conference by a United States evangelist.

"It would appear that the liberals and atheists are keeping their beady eyes on Mogoeng, just waiting for him to do something they can object to," said Botha in a statement.

"And why? All because he is a committed Christian and adheres to a Christian value system.

"Had he been a devout atheist adhering to a liberal value system, that is as much ‘religion’ as Christianity, he would have been able to act according to his convictions with impunity," said Botha.

He said liberals demanded fair judgements from the chief justice but then doubted him, suspicious of his Christian stance.

Mogoeng told the Business Day on Friday that he did not compel any judge to attend the course. He said the reports were doing a "disservice to our country" by taking things "out of context and to sensationalise".

According to the Mail & Guardian Online a legal academic, who did not want to be named, said the language used in the e-mail "was judicial language for 'you must go'".

Lulama Luti, Mogoeng's spokesperson said in statement on Friday: "... At a meeting of the heads of courts in Johannesburg today... the heads of courts present unanimously stated that they had not felt compelled to attend the conference."

  • Cracker - 2012-03-17 21:48

    Wonder what the response would have been if it was a Muslim associated Chief Justice and a Muslim flavored occasion.

      zaatheist - 2012-03-18 04:07

      My point exactly. All these dumb Xians crowing should just look at what a true theocratic state looks like, Saudi Arabia, Iran, North Korea ...... And Moegoe just happens to be an American Jesus fundamentalist evangelical Christian so he will hate Catholicism and all other Xian cults.

      Jimmy - 2012-03-18 21:41

      Zaathiests remarks as well as many others are far off the mark. John Maxwell is NOT repeat NOT an evangelist. I have a number of his books where their is no reference to God whatsoever. The perverted anti- christian rhetoric is sick in the extreme. He was a Methodist Pastor.What a crime!!! He is now a leadership fundi that is accepted by the religious and the non-religious alike. This is just an attack by the "unbiased" media and liberals against Mogoeng Mogoeng because they hate Christianity and we Christians are to be bullied, suppressed by these "tolerant" bullies. You are a bunch of intolerant hypocrites of the worst order. GET YOUR FACTS STRAIGHT You have revealed your utter intolerance once again!!!

  • Paul R. Gonsalves - 2012-03-17 22:01

    Atheist are so quick to exercise their rights and defend their (non) beliefs by attacking Christians for exercising their rights and defending their beliefs, and then they call Christians hypocrites.

      Fourhundredkg - 2012-03-17 23:22

      More people have been murdered and discriminated against in the name of Christ than for any other reason. Suggesting that atheists embark on similar 'crusades' is pure idiocy.

      Morné - 2012-03-17 23:29

      The reason why atheists are becoming so vociferous about their 'non-beliefs', as you put it, is because religion gets shoved down our throats at every turn. Admitting to atheism gets you ostracized from society, suddenly makes you an outsider and with a bit of luck a 'Devil Worshiper'; or worse, people trying to convert you and invite you to religious gatherings, often under false pretense. Nobody has ever knocked on my door trying to convert me to atheism. You do something good and its 'god bless you' or 'your a true Christian' - forcing us into hypocrisy just to be polite, keeping quite instead of admitting to being offended by the uncalled for conversion to a faith the you wish not to be associated with. Its a hallmark of Christianity above all other religions that it forces its believes on all and sundry. In your biased opinion Mr. Gonsalves you see the judges invitation as totally altruistic. From my point of view its a barely veiled attempt to impose his believes on his subordinates and more sinister, a move to determine who is/will be inside and outside the fold. To see true hypocrisy, please tell me that he (and you) will not hold any dissenters beliefs against him/her.

      Paul R. Gonsalves - 2012-03-18 00:49

      @400kg, Jesus is not an advocate of violence but love, the fact that evil men abused his name and the word of God does not mean that the message of Christ is evil. the bible says that God so loved the world that he sent his son. In fact it can be argued that 'religion' killed Christ and hung him on the cross. Don't confuse who Jesus is with the evils that some have done by abusing his name. U can hate all u want on Him 400, but fact is that He loves u.400 point out 1 evil thing that Jesus did when he walked this earth. And please don't push that lame argument that haters love to use about why God allows evil if he loves us so much. Mankind wants exclude God from everything than wanna turn around and blame him for the ills.

      Paul R. Gonsalves - 2012-03-18 01:06

      @morne, check out my response to 400kg. Heres the thing Morne, if I met u I would invite you to church, if u said No that's unfortunate but acceptable because it was an invitation and u have the right to say no. This does not mean that i forced my beliefs on you, that's why it's called an invitation. And if u came to church and did not enjoy it, u don't have to come back again, cos that's ur right. As Christians we invite others because we believe that what Christ has done is good news and that is why we share it. Morne, athiest may not be knocking on your door but this does not mean that they don't impose their views. When my child goes to school she has to learn about how man evolved from single cell organisms and in the process be indirectly told that what she believes is foolish. Morne, if her teacher should attempt to start the day with a prayer in class she runs the risk of loosing her job, for praying to God to bless the day. So who is imposing on who. Don't read about Jesus from the Internet, go to the source, dust of your bible and check out what He did, and No, this does not mean I am imposing my views,u dont have to if u don't want to. Know this Morne, u can hate on Him, but He truly loves u, and that is the message of Christ.

      zaatheist - 2012-03-18 04:09

      @Paul R. Gonsalves I see you are a member of the dead Messiah fan club And you're serious about believing these stories about a guy raising from the dead and flying up into the sky like a balloon, and you're not the least bit suspicious it's make believe? I mean, you do know that Muslims think their Muhammad flew up to heaven on a flying donkey too, right? Do you believe that? Or how about Buddha levitating? You know, lots of the gods we've invented flew all around, some as far as outer space! Some even had wings on their backs! It's really exciting. The New Testament is based on a bunch of fisherman’s tales. Of all the professions in the world, only one is more inclined to exaggeration and outright lies than fishermen, and that’s politicians.

      zaatheist - 2012-03-18 04:22

      @Paul R. Gonsalves Your grammar and spelling is atrocious and shows you as unintelligent and ill-educated, I'm offended by the sight of children forced to kneel down before a hanging tortured corpse and told to love it more than they love themselves. "Look at those nails through the hands and feet, kids. Oh how that crown of thorns must be torture. And that fearful gash in his abdomen is just ghastly, kids, isn't it? He did this for you, kids, you owe him big. Let us pray, kids. Repeat after me . . ." In my eyes this is child abuse on a massive scale. My disrespect and satire of religious belief is not accidental. I have no respect for a belief that teaches faith over logic, a paradise while others burn, and any belief for that matter that makes anything more valuable than a human being (God, Jesus, the bible, popes, bishops, etc). I think that the worst things about a belief in God is faith. Faith has zero value. It neither makes things true, or validates things that are true. It takes no courage to have faith. All that faith does is encourage ignorance. Faith is a practice that can only exist if one stays ignorant, because once somebody actually learns and studies a topic they have faith in it is no longer needs faith. It's either true or false. Faith is the mere practice of believing something hoping it's true despite what all evidence and logic says. Like leaping off a cliff without a parachute. Faith is an empty promise.

      Morné - 2012-03-18 04:43

      Mr. Gonsalves let me challenge our arguments point by point: - There is a difference if you invited me to church and my boss invited me to church. Furthermore, an invitation to church could mean anything from I'm testing your belief, I wish to change our opinion, because your wrong or I see it as a per-condition to friendship/business relationship. This might not apply to you per say, but it would be naive not to see it in a large portion of such invites. - The teaching of evolution has nothing more to do with religion than any other science; it conforms to the same methodologies as other sciences and scientific theories. My first exposure to the theory of evolution was only at University thanks to the religious bigotry that kept it out of the school curriculum (my lecturer on the subject was a devote Christian). - Personally, I have never been confronted by an atheist trying to convert me to his/her point of view. I've lost count of the number of times Christians have forced their views on me. In a multicultural society with numerous belief systems, praying to any particular god in a school setting is discriminatory; its got very little to do with atheists imposing their view. - Religion was forced on my for the first 18 years of my life. I was never given an opportunity to entertain any other views. In many ways I was brainwashed and subject to religious indoctrination. Mr. Gonsalves, please don't assume that I'm ignorant of religion, just because I'm Atheist.

      Morné - 2012-03-18 04:51

      - Furthermore, Atheists cannot hate god; even suggesting that it is so, is bitterly ironic and counter intuitive. (I would however admit to somewot of a dislike of religious fanatics).

      Paul R. Gonsalves - 2012-03-18 13:57

      @Morne, I agree, I,m totally against religious indoctrination and nobody should be forced to serve God.believe it or not Jesus Christ himself was against religious indoctrination. I will share my beliefs with as many as i can cos what Jesus did for us is good news and because He has commissioned us to tell the world, but I will not and cannot force u to believe what I do. It's unfortunate that you chose to be an atheist though:(. Morne we will have to disagree and wait and see. I hope that one day you will encounter the 'real' Jesus, He is wonderful.

      Morné - 2012-03-18 17:53

      Thanks for the kind wishes Mr.Gonsalves. Its unfortunate that you persist in your unfounded dogma. I hope that some day you will think beyond your narrow minded views and see reality for what it is. It is wonderful.

  • Paul R. Gonsalves - 2012-03-17 22:09

    For the Very Few but highly vocal atheist in case u didn't know it but the overwhelming majority of South Africans are religious. And so what if the meeting was led by some one who believed in God, I did not know that this was illegal. Christians are constantly attacked for sharing their beliefs but when atheist share their (non) beliefs it's acceptable. There is a God, believe it or not, accept Him or ridicule Him, there is a God.

      Cracker - 2012-03-17 22:52

      Please, just inform us which of the many manifestations of gods are you referring to? My personal interest in the religious issues is that I do not want the religion of WHOEVER to be imposed on me and the only way to counter that is to point out the lies underlying religion. It is a constant battle for the sake of freedom of thought and personal choice. You see, if religion is allowed to contaminate the minds of others it becomes with each annexed mind a bigger threat to those who do not subscribe to religion or its particular version. Religionists are AT THIS VERY MOMENT fighting and killing each other in the belief that their own brand is the be-all-and-end-all. Are you lot so blind that you can't see it? Yet you will come to my door and to my government and insist that your particular religion and god is the right one and worthy of worship. What the is wrong with you lot? Don't interfere with for example the right to die and the silly little sex escapades of others you don't like but make such a huge, silly issue of as if a god who may have been responsible - according to you - for the creation of (but one of many perhaps) a universe, which has been expanding for something like 13 BILLION years at a speed the equivalent of about 3 times around the earth every second. See the silliness? But believe it if you like, but if you can be that silly don't impose your other silly beliefs on the rest of us. THAT is the reason for my and many others distaste of religion

      Paul R. Gonsalves - 2012-03-17 23:20

      @cracker. You highlight the intolerance of religious orders yet u make it clear that you do not tolerate the viewpoints of others. U say that the only way to defend your (non) belief system,that u so passionately believe to be true, is by showing a lack of tolerance and disrespect toward the beliefs of others. You call it 'your Government' as if citizens who believe in God somehow automatically loose their rights. You demand and insist that others don't shove their beliefs down you throat but you sound like an atheist evangelist. You make ridiculous generalizations to support your extreme views about extremist. You need Jesus brother, whether u know it or not, cos u sound angry and bitter. The word for today is L.O.V.E, embrace it bro. Don't hate me cos I love God, we are all 'gambling on something,my bet is on Jesus and what He said was true, urs is on evolution and the fact that there's 'nothing out there, in due time we'll see who's right. I leave u with this thought:The bible says that only a fool says in his heart there is no God. I don't expect an intelligent response from u, just more cussing an rambling.

      Cracker - 2012-03-17 23:35

      @ Paul... I am intolerant of religion. Suppress it? No but if for example I am forced to start attending their rituals or they start making laws that infringe on my liberties I will go as far as to kill them. I trust you understand that my comment refers to religion in all its various forms. You take your religion and practise it away from me and leave the ruling of the country to the persons who support freedoms of choice. You and the many other types of religions around - and some of them will kill you just for the pleasure of it because you may not agree with them - stay out of our choices of freedom. I cannot imagine why I should be tolerant to leanings and beliefs that are out to restrict my freedoms. It includes leanings and belief systems like communism - also in its various manifestations. Atheism is not a religion or even a belief system. It lacks a god and rituals you find in religion. It is so elementary that it hardly needs further elaboration. All I and many others ask is for freedom to live the way we - and ALL THE OTHERS around us - were naturally born into and to make up our minds what we like or would want to see and enjoy, and of course read. What is so difficult about it? I can tell you now that I have recently again looked at the evidence surrounding Jesus. You Christians are such liars! Jesus told the whole world he would return during the first century. Black on white in the bible. Have you noticed the preachers of all kinds avoid those texts?

      Cracker - 2012-03-17 23:51

      O yes, Paul, I see you think I ramble. No, I don't. What I say I can always back up with evidence. Now, you asked for it. Here goes. People must just google the following and make up their own minds, something you, Paul, must still learn to do. Bible contradictions in creation? Jesus predicted a First-Century Return 60 Prophecies of Jesus Debunked Just read the above. They don't manufacture the bases for their views. It is all there for anyone with a bible handy to check. THEN we talk again. Preachers of all kinds have been skirting the verses in the bible that state that Jesus would return during the first century. We were never told about those verses while at school or attending Sunday and the other church orchestrated happenings. NEVER. WHY NOT? Google and be educated. And you Paul have the audacity to try to patronize me?

      Alex - 2012-03-18 00:49

      @Paul. Cracker demonstrates the same level of intolerance towards differing beliefs as you do. For someone who clearly regards himself as a good Christian, someone who believes that only God may pass judgement, you are awfully judgmental of others. I believe this is the hypocrisy that angers most people when confronted by "bible bashers" (This is a general statement). Your reference and conclusion regarding the "my" government statement is entirely infantile. No where is it suggested that Christians should LOSE their rights based on their beliefs. This persecution complex and matyrdom, demonstrated by many Christians and highlighted by articles such as this and other media reports, is another behavior that angers people. Religion is a man-made institution, the church was established to function as a form of government. (please do not confuse my reference to religion here as a reference to God - my beliefs are none of your business and I will not enter into a discussion about them). The Anglican church was formed so a king of England could divorce his wife, the content of the bible was determined by man. (again do not confuse this reference as a comment on the truth of the content but rather a comment on man's influence on religion) Extremism of any kind is only ever dangerous.

      Marie - 2012-03-18 01:33

      People see God everyday, they just don't recognize Him.

      zaatheist - 2012-03-18 05:11

      @Marie Ag shame! So you have been brainwashed to believe in an invisible Sky Fairy who grants wishes. It is all pure delusion. Did you know your god hates women. He really hates them and considers then unclean and inferior. "No wickedness comes anywhere near the wickedness of a woman..... Sin began with a woman and thanks to her we all must die"; (Ecclesiasticus 25:19,24) When a woman has her regular flow of blood, the impurity of her monthly period will last seven days, and anyone who touches her will be unclean till evening. Anything she lies on during her period will be unclean, and anything she sits on will be unclean. Whoever touches her bed must wash his clothes and bathe with water, and he will be unclean till evening. Whoever touches anything she sits on must wash his clothes and bathe with water, and he will be unclean till evening. Whether it is the bed or anything she was sitting on, when anyone touches it, he will be unclean till evening. - [Leviticus 15:19-20] Let your women keep silence in the churches: for it is not permitted unto them to speak; but they are commanded to be under obedience as also saith the law. And if they will learn any thing, let them ask their husbands at home: for it is a shame for women to speak in the church. (Corinthians 14:34-36)

      cathy.eksteen - 2012-03-18 10:40

      Doesn't mean because they don't believe in God, that they don't believe or are children of the devil Paul. You see I'm a Christian, but through having family who played many roles of the Pastor and his wife, lied, judges, stole and manipulated whilst walking with the Bible under the arm. I don't blame people for saying that they are atheist because I myself don't believe in the faith of Cristianity anymore. I think you are rather judgemental to say that such a big percentage are Christians - had there been more of the right messages coming across from Christians and actions maybe more education about life, we would not have so much crime.. But unforunately it's all about money and manipulation. Catholics are much bigger in numbers and you know what they don't force anything onto people, they are most humble.

      Khutso Rele Mokgosi - 2012-03-18 11:57

      every knee shall bow and every tongue shall confess that Jesus is Lord!

      Paul R. Gonsalves - 2012-03-18 13:30

      Hi Cathy. I am sorry to hear that u had been disappointed by Christians in the past. Cathy the bible says we should not lean on the arm of the flesh bcos it will fail us. There r so many Christians who have wandered from their faith because people have disappointed them. This is why it is important not to put your faith in man but in God. As Christians we are followers of Christ and that is where ur focused should be. If u go to a church and ur not comfortable or happy with the leader then leave the church, but don't abandon your beliefs. Also you cannot say you are a Christian but then say you don't belief in Christianity anymore and become sympathetic towards an atheistic view. This is not a judgement but makes logical sense. I hope you find your way back. dont allow yourself to be influenced by atheist, there is a God, they just don't know it yet.

  • Thozi - 2012-03-17 22:21

    My interest in the Chief Justice is in the Court only. Finish and klaar! So far, I, who had doubted his credibility and integrity when appointed, am impressed with his perpofmance. Until otherwise, I'm proud to have him as my Chief Justice.

      Cracker - 2012-03-17 22:36

      @ Are you on his staff? Or can you give details of his written judgments? I am not attacking the CJ but at the same time one can't just let cheap propaganda rule our thinking processes.

      thozi - 2012-03-17 22:51

      @ Cracker No, I'm not even connected to the Justice Department in anyway - was merely expressing my personal opinion about the CJ like others. Don't have a lot of his judgements, but remember he ruled against the State when he stated that a person can sue the Minister of Police following a misdemeanour committed by an off-duty police official. He read the unanimous written judgement.

      Cracker - 2012-03-17 23:14

      @ Thozi That was not a pro- or anti-government judgment. It was at most a neutral judgment and the fact that the rest of judges agreed with it confirms it was not controversial. It was a run-of-the-mill judgment. But does it really affect the religion issue? OK. If you feel that way, fine. But then why create the impression that the issue in question here has been solved or is solvable by a judgment that was so uncontroversial from both a political and religious perspective?

      thozi - 2012-03-18 00:37

      @Cracker I carry the belief that a legal decision is only good if it's based purely on a set of facts placed before the courts. If such a decision is pro or anti government, it should only be a coicidence and not in anyway, as a result of a political influence. At the moment, being an optimist (about an unencumbered judiciary) I want to give the CJ some suport, until he proves me wrong, like e.g. associating himself with Justice Hlope's alleged statement to the Justices.

      thozi - 2012-03-18 00:45

      @ Cracker Oh, about the liberals and atheists and different religions, I don't really know a lot about those since I'm not able to prove any of the theories. But I am a Chritian but respect other religions equally.

      Cracker - 2012-03-18 01:03

      @ thozi I hate to break the news to you but the other religions do NOT respect your particular religion.

      Alex - 2012-03-18 01:14

      Law, morality and religion rarely coincide. Why do the CDP feel the need to defend the objectivity of someone and ability to perform their required duties when it is not being questioned? The Chief Justice is required to apply the law, without the influence of his personal beliefs. Why suggest a potential reaction to a sitution that may never happen? Why suggest that at some point his objectivity and ability to perform his duties may be questioned and that there may be a reason to potentially question his objectivity in the future? Are they trying to create questions regarding his objectivity? Or just trying to remain relevant?

      thozi - 2012-03-18 11:08

      @ Cracker I'm aware of that and consider it a pity really. I'll continue with my respect nonetheless, hoping it will rub off. I shudder to imagine what the world would be like when we all start hating others just because they are different from us, in beliefs, ideology, race, religion, social status, gender, etc

  • Theo - 2012-03-17 23:04


  • Paul R. Gonsalves - 2012-03-18 01:27

    @Alex, lol, just cos u don't like what I say, or disagree with my views does not make me a 'bad' judgmental Christian. Alex can I recommend that you read my response to Cracker again, with an open mind, then read ur response ( pretend I wrote what u said) then tell me which of the two sounds more hypocritical to you. Or do u subscribe to the culture of holding Christians accountable to their beliefs but u r somehow exonerated. The days that we should not try and remove a split from your neighbors eye when u have a log in your own. I not an advocate of religion and its man made traditions, I believe in a personal relationship with a Living God. I am not a bible bashing religious fanatic, I am a fallable Christian, saved by the blood of Jesus. Beliefs are note like votes, why would you keep something so important a secret thats wrong to share. And besides I am not ashamed of the Gospel of Jesus Christ because it is carries the power of God that l

      zaatheist - 2012-03-18 04:26

      You write and spell like a 12 year old.  What type of Christian are you?  A Hansie Cronje, Joost van der Westhuizen, Ray McCauley, prosperity gospel (check my designer shades), Christian;?  A Benny Hinn fraud faith healer (no amputees allowed), Christian?  A Pope, hates gays, condoms, abortion, birth control and reports of clergy child abuse, Christian?  A Joseph Smith, I found the gold tablets and Jesus visited America, Christian?  A Glossolalia, cmtru wiggwagg snogerumpus slobberdam molosovic, tongue slobbering, rolling on the floor, Christian?  A Jim Jones, have some Kool-Aid, Christian?  A David Koresh, what a lovely little daughter you have, Christian?  A Sun Myung Moon, the moonie messiah, Christian?  A Seventh Day Adventist, Kellogg's Corn Flakes on Saturday, Christian.  A Jehovah's Witless, sorry no blood transfusions and you are not one of the lucky 144000, Christian?  A sex obsessed member of The Family type Christian?  A Christian Scientist, we don't do doctors but pray even if kiddies die, Christian?  A gun toting, rapture ready. American Jesus, the world is going to end this year, again, Christian?  An Aryan National, neo-nazi, we hate Jews and people with dark skins and Jesus was a white man, Christian?  An anti-science, anti-knowledge, the world is only 6000 years old, Christian?  None of the above but a true ™, whatever that means, Christian?  Understand my confusion? It helps to know where you are coming from.

      Alex - 2012-03-18 05:24

      @Paul. I dont think premature posting is the reason for your general lack of grammar. I never stated that you were a bad Christian nor a bible basher. However you do appear to be judgmental. If you would like I can point out the various judgements you made that lead me to this conclusion. Also it is foolish to make assumptions regarding my beliefs. My beliefs are personal, I do not keep them a secret, and are not ashamed of them either. However I choose not to discuss them with individuals who are unable/unwilling to listen and respect them. People should not be held accountable for their beliefs but for their actions. I hope you are able to recognize the difference.

  • Paul R. Gonsalves - 2012-03-18 01:34

    @Alex, my message was posted prematurely so please excuse some of the grammar but I think u get the just of it.

  • zaatheist - 2012-03-18 04:59

    "All because he is a committed Christian and adheres to a Christian value system". And what value system would that be then? If someone cannot differentiate right from wrong without God, or the Bible, or religion, then there's something very wrong with the individual. Stealing is wrong. Killing is wrong. Molesting children is wrong. Most other rational people know this without being told so by religion. A child knows he's being deceptive when he lies without ever even having heard of the bible. There is no substantive evidence for an omnipotent father-figure deity as postulated by the Christian/Jewish/Islamic tradition. So without religion can there be morality? Certainly, because true moral behavior is based upon simple self-interest. The guiding ethic is to truly act in your own best interest. That would mean treating all people fairly, honestly and, as it says in the Hippocratic Oath, "Cause no harm." Religions invent all other "sins" to increase their control over people. Picking morals from religion is like picking out food from the trash. Sure, you’ll find something edible, and maybe even tasty, but it’ll be tainted with the horrid smell of the rest of the junk. Why not just get your food fresh from nature where it came from in the first place.

      john.duplessis2 - 2012-03-18 06:25

      Just a suggestion to you and others that share your values - read the book 'A Rebuttal to Thomas Paine' written in 1796 by Rev. Richard Watson, Bishop of Landaff in London. It is a point-by-point, blow-by-blow response to Thomas Paine’s anti-Christian tract The Age of Reason. You see, people like you have been in existance forever... your arguments are not new or even half as intelligent as that of one Thomas Paine.

      zaatheist - 2012-03-18 19:36

      @John Why would I bother? Provide some evidence that would make it worth while. You all shy away from my request for evidence because you have none. SO I am not going to bother reading a book about ---------- nothing!

      john.duplessis2 - 2012-03-19 09:24 that because you have no faith, mate? Why get so uptight about...nothing? You read this blog which is also...really, nothing. EDUCATE is the word and reading will do that for you.

  • hc12345 - 2012-03-18 05:07

    If the judge had said let us kill more babies and give gays more rights no one would have blinked an eye. As long as you play into the hands of the liberals you are OK.

  • poaul - 2012-03-18 07:51

    The issue here is not one of what the Moegoe believes, that is his own private matter. The issue here is that we are a secular country. That means that there is a clear separation between church and state. Thus, we can't have government bodies pushing a religious agenda of any sort. This is as much to protect all other religions as it is to defend liberals and atheists. Now what exactly is wrong with that approach?

  • Burtfred - 2012-03-18 08:16

    The Chief Justice should be a judge, not a priest.

  • Emile Myburgh - 2012-03-18 08:53

    Far more ominous than his Christian values, is the fact that he has so far been silent in the attacks on the independence of the judiciary from the executive. He is clearly not suitable for the job as CJ, and that is why Zuma appointed him, he needs a subservient judiciary to tighten the ANC authoritarian grip on power.

      Michael Savage - 2012-03-18 09:02

      Indeed, this side show only serves to distract

  • Michael Savage - 2012-03-18 09:00

    Cracker said it earlier and I feel that I should repeat it. If the CJ was a Muslim and "asked" all judges to attend a muslim event, how would Christians feel about this? Or what if the event was hosted by the church of Satan? Christians would naturally be angered by being forced to attend such events that went against their beliefs. So a secular society is not a non-religious society, it is a multi religious society where no single religious agenda is allowed to be pushed above another. Daily prayer in schools is also not allowed for the same reason. People who say that prayer should be allowed are assuming that the prayer will be made to their god. If your kids were being forced to pray to another god every morning, would you still endorse this practice?

  • Paul R. Gonsalves - 2012-03-18 13:45

    @Alex my 'general lack of grammar'. That's just mean Alex:(. Alex would i be judgmental if I accused you of judging me for being judgmental, silly, isn't it. Alex please share your beliefs I am will to listen. Oh yeah, Jesus loves you Alex. :)

      Alex - 2012-03-18 15:17

      @Paul, it's not mean, it's fact. I'm glad you are willing to listen, although I would appreciate it more if you demonstrated the ability to listen. Does your disdain towards the beliefs of Atheists extend to the other religions practiced?

      Paul R. Gonsalves - 2012-03-18 15:34

      @Alex, lol,.... at least u admitting that Atheism is a religion, I pray that God will reveal Himself 2 u, take care

      Alex - 2012-03-18 19:36

      Lol Paul, you really are a fool. I did not admit that atheism is a religion but it is a belief system. Not all beliefs are related to religion. And so very self-righteous.

      zaatheist - 2012-03-18 19:38

      @Paul Jesus might love you but I am his favourite. I see you duck all my challenges. Evidence please. You believe in a book that has talking animals, wizards, witches, demons, sticks turning into snakes, food falling from the sky, people walking on water, zombies flying through the air and all sorts of magical, absurd and primitive stories. I have no reason to take you seriously.

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