Cops to stick to their guns

2012-04-26 22:12

Pretoria - The disarming of police officers declared incompetent to handle firearms has been halted, police management said on Thursday.

Acting national police commissioner Lieutenant General Nhlanhla Mkhwanazi said officers who had already been disarmed would get their weapons back.

"The status quo will prevail until a proper plan and guideline implementation is communicated to all provinces and divisions."

The SA Police Service decided to disarm 27 000 members found to be unfit to handle firearms. The move was opposed by the SA Police Union.

It successfully interdicted SAPS from disarming officers, but some had already had their guns taken away.

Mkhwanazi said, citing the department's figures, that a total of 129 713 members had undergone proficiency training. Out of that figure 27 400 officers were not competent.

"However out of this 27 400, 20 864 did not fail, but have just not completed their training. They would have either completed legal principles only, or use of firearms only."

A member needed to complete both the legal theory and training in the use of firearms to be declared fully competent. He said the 6 536 officers who had failed the test would undergo remedial training and be re-assessed.

"The unit standard requires members to be competent in three firearms, handgun, shotgun, and assault rifle. Within those members that were declared not yet competent some of them are competent in one, but not all firearms," Mkhwanazi said.

  • Sharon - 2012-04-26 23:03

    no no no they can't have their guns back! Too many innocent people have died already because these dips don't know how to use a firearm. This is insane.

      Erich - 2012-04-27 13:09

      Yes, and the 'innocent people' include the wives, girl friends and children od some of these insane cops.

      Denise - 2012-04-28 11:31

      Mkhwanazi, appointed by Zuma in October, has now become the 3rd police commissioner in a row to face serious allegations of improper conduct & abuse of power. Disgraced former commissioner Jackie Selebi is serving 15 yrs in jail. General Bheki Cele – appointed by Zuma in 2009 – is now suspended, implicated in the police’s R1.7 billion office leasing scandal. The Mkhwanazi investigation is in response to the DA’s claim that the general was an “accomplice to a murder case” & had obstructed justice by “failing to co-operate in the (resulting) investigation”. He allegedly also failed “to investigate the misappropriation of millions of rands” from the police’s controversial crime intelligence division (CID) slush fund. Kohler Barnard claims to be in possession of nine affidavits from police officers who attended a meeting addressed by Mkhwanazi on March 5. There he is alleged to have told fellow officers that he once witnessed a suspect being shot & killed by the police, but that such incidents were not always reported. In one sworn affidavit, an unidentified police officer alleges Mkhwanazi was also involved in a shooting incident, where an innocent person was killed. He was requested to make a statement, but refused. The slush fund allegations relate to an internal police investigation which found that crime intelligence boss, Lieutenant-General Richard Mdluli, may have plundered the police’s secret fund of up to R5 million for his & his family’s benefit.

  • Jayson - 2012-04-26 23:15

    I'm sorry,,, I don't get this. As a ex Saps member I can't comprehend that they have decided to disarm 27 000 members. That means that before the decided to disarm these people,,,,we had 27 000 incompetent police members serving and protecting us???? WTF.

      Sharon - 2012-04-27 06:43

      Correction, Jayson - we still have 27 400 incompetent police officers serving and protecting us. They are getting their guns back!

      Jayson - 2012-04-27 07:02

      So true Sharon. Giving one incompetent member back his gun is really bad news. Thanks for pointing out my 400 mistake.

      Sharon - 2012-04-27 07:15

      :-) I didn't even notice the 400 thing! It's the fact that they are getting the guns back that I am hysterical about.

      goyougoodthing - 2012-04-27 10:24

      They don't serve and protect us. They serve themselves and protect their bribes.

  • Denise - 2012-04-26 23:16

    Over 7000 police firearms went out on the streets over the last three years. Even more concerning is that these firearms inevitably fall into the wrong hands and are used in criminal activities. As police firearms are lost and stolen (read - sold to criminals) and then replaced at great cost, with seemingly no action from police management to prevent this, the police are unwittingly fuelling the illegal arms trade.

      Denise - 2012-04-27 00:55

      Lets play Bad Cop, Worse Cop... The National Firearms Forum (NFF) says that government documents indicate that 200,000 government-owned weapons have gone missing. A spokesman for the Department of Safety and Security admitted that from 1990 to 1999, 14,636 firearms issued to police officers were stolen or "lost". Our police service is severely dysfunctional. The Mail & Guardian reported that during a 17-month period 340 officers were charged with helping prisoners escape; 195 with armed robbery; over 7,000 with assault; 306 with corruption; 291 with fraud; 332 with murder; 16 with operating a brothel; 149 with rape; 171 with robbery; 1,550 with theft; and 130 with stealing cars. Which begs the question, is crime out of control or are the police out of control? Cops incompetent to drive light motor vehicles - 5,733 police officers do not have valid driving licences. These include 3,338 inspectors, 1,712 sergeants, and as many as 280 captains. Non-drivers include 620 members of the detective service and 67 from crime intelligence - 4,984 members of the visible policing units can not drive - 17 superintendents cannot either. The words from DR Alban keeps popping in I my head "Hello Africa Tell Me, How are You Doing?"

      seanpresherhughes_1 - 2012-04-27 01:30

      Too many firearms are beeing sold on the black market if you ask me!

  • gwvickers - 2012-04-26 23:45

    I agree, take those who are not fit to use fire arms, but to those who qualify yes, we always try to be like the American SWAT, and believe me we can, just need that extra mile

      Jayson - 2012-04-27 00:14

      Gwvickers. I really don't know what you on about?? But if you are referring to our TASK force. These guys are specialized in what they do. No questions asked. the american SWAT teams are good in there field. But our guys are just as good,,if not better. Please don't refer to them as fat cops sitting behind a charge office desk,,, and taking statements. I know you meant good with you comment. I've met a few guys from miami Swat. Its all a big show. Thanks to movies. Our guys are the best

      gwvickers - 2012-04-27 08:49

      @jayson, in my message did I one refer to fat people, no, secondly I have also met guys from swat, think you misleading my comment, and watching to much movies, there is a program on DSTV about SWAT activity maybe you should watch, nobody said our task team is incompetent

  • Nikki Bodenstein - 2012-04-27 00:50

    Ja they had to pause that idea after they realized they'd all be without guns.

  • seanpresherhughes_1 - 2012-04-27 01:22

    This is what happens when you take people off the street corners and think you can recruit them to become police officers!!! No profile checks or proper background checks or even psychological evaluation shows you how desperate this goverment is! How can I trust any policeman - one would not be able to rely on any competance here - mostly illiterate bunch recruited as police officers!

  • Fourhundredkg - 2012-04-27 01:27

    Another retard national police commissioner. One in jail, another on his way and the third re-arming incompetents. Can I also get a firearm before I have gotten around to qualifying. We've got to get rid of these idiots faster before they kill us all.

      Stewart - 2012-04-27 02:51

      How do we get rid off them?

  • lwethu.maqetuka - 2012-04-27 01:43


  • Stewart - 2012-04-27 02:29

    Third world twats

  • njdejager - 2012-04-27 02:34

    Incompetent but no problem for our clever leaders WTF? Typical..... we all look like idiots again to the whole world.

  • Mart - 2012-04-27 02:57

    CONSPIRACY THEORY - Appoint suspect 'policemen' to the most senior posts in the SAPS to compliment argueably the world's most corrupt police force, arm incompetent officers as you would 'child soldiers', delay important decisions relating to the tenuous stability in the country (a powder keg looking for a spark)......something is cooking in the bowels of this 'kleptocracy !' (My apologies and gratitude to those conscientous and hard working policemen and women without whom chaos would reign.)

      Stewart - 2012-04-27 03:06

      Chaos already reigns.

  • raymond.kok3 - 2012-04-27 03:09

    so what does the training in the so called police college do you are suppose to be ready and able to be a policeman when you leave thats why there are so much murder suicides these days by cops .

      Stewart - 2012-04-27 03:13

      Idiots training more idiots.

  • David - 2012-04-27 03:54

    those useless cops they commit suicide

  • Grace - 2012-04-27 06:06

    27000 incompetent people walking around ARMED and IN UNIFORM... Amd we supposed to feel safe??? What a JOKE!

  • Darren Pitt - 2012-04-27 06:09

    How will policeman defend us if they cant even handle their firearms? It is a huge risk.

  • Gregory - 2012-04-27 06:37

    R5 assault rifle can fire at 600-750 rounds a minute, do we really need these in hands of incompetent trigger happy policemen.

  • Gerald Jordaan - 2012-04-27 06:44

    ja well no fine!Another fine mess we have! Not only can't they read & write 27k are stupid when it comes to firearms!EISH!

  • Grace - 2012-04-27 07:37

    We are not allowed to drive a car until we have gone through the training, PASSED both a written and practical examination and possess a LEGAL license. Surely the same should apply to the cops and their firearms?

  • Danny - 2012-04-27 08:24

    What part of "the law states that if you do not have a competency certificate you may not be in possesion of a firearm" do they not understand?? Here is a perfect example of the SAPS breaking the law tha they are meant to uphold. Not only they should not be armed after-hours, they may not be in possesion of firearms at all! if a person is unable to pass this simple exam, he should be dismissed and make space for somoenone who is.

  • Steven Pretorius - 2012-04-27 08:31

    I used to be a police officer in SA for close to 15 years. I am now a police officer in Australia. I can tell you that in Australia we HAVE to re- qualify once a year for firearms, taser, and first aid. It is all done individually, and if you fail ANY of the three, you do not go out on the road until you are competent. To be honest, I did perhaps 5 shooting practices in South Africa in 15 years, and 4 in 4 years in Australia.

      George - 2012-04-27 10:18

      Steven I was a fire arme officer in the Thames valley Police in England and we had to qualify on all weapons we used and also attend fire arms trining six times a year and tactics training,oficer safety training as well and if you could notpass those it was back on the streets and on normal police duties. There are to many guns being held by incompetant officers in Africa and the sooner the people in authority realise this the better for all.

  • Mike Purchase - 2012-04-27 09:13

    What is wrong with there people i used a shotgun on the farm at 12 years old with no training you have to be super dof not to be able to use a firearm properly.In my opinion its just an excuse to arm criminals.

  • Thys - 2012-04-27 09:40

    While we are at ir; why dont we give drivers licence to all at the lotto ciosk, doesnt matter if they can drive or not....

  • George - 2012-04-27 10:25

    As an ex fire arms officer in the British Police Force to become a fire arms officer you had to apply yo the fire armes department, pass an interview, then pass a five week fire arms course and then pass regular qualification shoots and training sessions through out the year every year. Fail these and you were sent back to normal police duties. It seems that over here just about every police officer can carry a gun with little or no experience at all. No wonder they kill them selves and in some cases inocent people.

  • Stanton - 2012-04-27 10:43

    At least we can sue now if an innocent member of the public is injured as a result of a firearm that was issued to policeman/woman who was not found competent in the 1st place to handle it! WHY DONT WE JUST GET RID OF ALL THE FIREARMS! It's probably the number 1 weapon of choice to commit gruesome crimes we all read about everyday. One less firearm in circulation could lead to one less rape/murder/cash in transit heist etc.

      Mike Purchase - 2012-04-27 10:54

      I agree stanton.

      Grace - 2012-04-27 11:03

      Stanton this is SA.... The docket against the cop would be lost and the evidence would disappear

  • Koos - 2012-04-27 11:17

    So let me get this straight: Incompetent police officers are allowed to have fire arms but most law abiding citizens have been disarmed and even worse, some competent law abiding citizens have be refused the option of owning a firearm. Incompetent people mostly loyal to the government are being armed but law abiding citizens are systematically being disarmed..... should we start to worry?

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