Cosatu threatens to destroy toll booths

2012-11-28 19:18

Johannesburg - Government must stop implementation of e-tolling or face protests and the destruction of toll booths, the Congress of SA Trade Unions (Cosatu) said on Wednesday.

"I think if government doesn't listen, then people will have no choice but to go and demolish those toll-gates," said Gauteng Cosatu provincial secretary Dumisani Dakile at a press briefing.

Dakile was joined by Cosatu General Secretary Zwelinzima Vavi and President Sidumo Dlamini.

Vavi said a protest in Pretoria and Johannesburg against e-tolling on Friday was only a precursor to more mass action if the unpopular plan went ahead.

"This action on Friday is just the beginning. On the 6th of December we are not only going to march, but give the government a little dose of what to expect in March if they pass that law and try to force implementation of the e-tolls," Vavi said.

He said workers would "occupy the highways and claim them as ours".

Vavi said Gauteng was only the first province to have e-tolling, as there were also plans to roll out e-tolling in Durban and Cape Town.

He called the battle against e-tolling a "struggle between life and death" and called for South Africans outside Gauteng to protest e-tolling.

"Other provinces cannot be spectators; this is not about Gauteng. This is about South Africa," Vavi said.

He argued that e-tolling would cost the public much more than the initial cost of improving Gauteng's highways; about R70bn for R20bn in improvements.

"We are not prepared to pay over and over and over the R20bn."

Vavi said government had a "track record" of paying more for projects than was initially estimated, and pointed to the Gautrain and 2010 World Cup stadiums as examples.

  • robes.spear - 2012-11-28 19:26

    Win or lose the only loser here is South Africa. SANRAL, the Treasury and Government have lost the moral high ground through their arrogance in attempting to force what is essentially a tax on an already overtaxed public. For the first time the taxpaying public and the poor are presenting a united front against maladministration at the very least, or possibly corruption on the other side of the spectrum. Accountability and transparency are words unfamiliar to our government. As commented in the public briefings government only seems to hear the voice of violence. There should be a sign in every government office: "Beware when the average law abiding tax paying citizen revolts". History has many examples of such instances and I cannot think of a government that survived. Treasury, a once respected institution, has joined the NPA in losing substantial credibility with the public. The very credibility of the government is tainted. A government can only govern with the support of its people. As the private sector, which is the only principled source of good governance and integrity left in the country, withdraws from participation in flawed processes, and honest Joe seeks to break free from the corrupt and injust system being built around him (and through his efforts), the system will eventually crumble under its own dishonest weight.

      charlesbronson.bronson - 2012-11-28 20:16

      I will join Vavi and help burn it down! Enough is enough.

      elgh.elgh - 2012-11-28 20:37

      I am 100% against the e-toll saga, but violent behaviour and destruction will not solve this issue.

      alisha.abad.7 - 2012-11-28 20:44

      COSATU are nothing more than controlled opposition. They are a release valve for when the ruling party is under pressure. They are not a true grass roots organisation representing ordinary people, but an astro-turf front with the illusion of public representativity. At the end of the day, their bed is made up in Luthuli House and they have to prostitute themselves in it at the end of the day. Their true mandate is to re-direct media attention away from genuine dissenters, They purposefully hijack the dissenting voice and debate, only to back down at the last moment. This is the truth of the matter!

      kobus.hattingh.5 - 2012-11-28 20:52

      Let them all remain as the tombstones of the ANC and name each after the men (one def Zuma) whom would have benefitted from this sick attempt.

      smalefane - 2012-11-28 21:12

      @Leonardb1 - Cosatu is just trying to save face. Marikana was their biggest loss and they would try to do everything in their to gain back the public's trust-if they had any.

      squeegee.pilot - 2012-11-28 21:14

      Someone is looking at those gantries and saying "I wonder how much I can get for the scrap metal..."

      jesibelle.krueger - 2012-11-28 21:21

      One gang of goons against another gang of goons - sounds just like the rest of Africa. It is no different in the DRC, Sudan, Algeria, Nigeria, etc, etc. They cannot work, they can only war. It is the ethos of the stone-age and so it will remain. The USA wants invest in Africa - it will lose trillions and it will finally be dragged into the abyss - as Africa will with the entire globe. I am simply the messenger, but alas not the only one - take a look at what one of the most prolific minds in the USA is saying, The reason the ANC has to desperately find alternative sources of income for infrastructure is as a result of nearly the entire national budget being spent on the ANC's "JOBS FOR VOTES" program.

      chris.potgieter.73 - 2012-11-29 06:07

      Spot on comment and the truth will only infuriate the new 'base' at Luthuli House. The question is whether we will see if the Powers that Be at Luthuli House has the cajones to now say to Cosatu that enough is enough and remove membership status from the likes of Vavi and Dlamini? They, together with the seemingly corrupt ANC current leadership, will be seen by future historians as the root cause of our country becoming just another failed state.

      jeremy002 - 2012-11-29 06:55

      @ alish.abad.7 - as you rightly point out, their bed is made up in Luthuli House, so the more division there is within, the better for thinking South africans who agree that the ANC is beyond redemption now and must be replaced with something that will pull the country out of trouble.

      andre.vandeventer.16 - 2012-11-29 07:16

      At first my blood started to boil when I read this. My immediate reaction was that they always take pride in their statement that they "fought for a free and democratic SA". You get the government that you vote for. But then I got thinking. The entire E-Tol system is unfair, costly and being implemented for the wrong reasons, and the government is just forcing it's will on the already over taxed population. Democracy is not working here. Therefore, Cosatu, please be my guest and demolish the toll gates!

      flysouth - 2012-11-29 07:45

      I am 100% solid with Cosatu on this issue - there can be no backing-off in the fight against these tolls, and if it is necessary then yes - destroy the gantries, cameras etc, since our government will remain deaf until they see destruction. This government has effectively declared war against the populace by their obdurate determination to go ahead despite massive opposition, and in war, moderation is imbecilic.

      heathway.master - 2012-11-29 09:27

      Demonstrators can burn and kill truck drivers, damage private vehicles, burn police vehicles, kill policemen, trash the city centre etc, and this Government turns a complete blind eye. But oh my, let anyone threaten their sacred e-toll CASH COW, and immediate Government threats of arrest come into play. What a bunch of useless hypocrites. SANRAL has completely and totally ignored any Government budgets, and their debt has miraculously soared, in a couple of months, from 20 billion to a staggering 75 billion, and they are now in such financial dwang, causing wild panic in their ranks. Any bets what final costs will escalate to. They now claim the public was fully informed of the costs involved, and were ecstatic at paying toll fees originally set at R1000 or more, for non-e-tag holders. The public were also fully informed that non e-tag holders would be penalized at having to pay more than triple the rate of e-tag holders, and that tolling would be introduced Nationally, and would last forever. The motorist was also fully informed that legislation to be passed, would result in payment defaulters appearing in court. After hearing all this, the motorist voted unanimously for the system. SANRAL, you may believe your blatant lies and bulls**t, but the public won’t, so let all of you get stuffed, and catch some terrible terminal disease. The economy may well be threatened, but not through the public’s doing, so take responsibility yourselves.

      tert.lepa - 2012-11-30 19:23

      Whats up with this destruction mentality from these blacks in COSATO. If they dont get what they want they want to brake things down.

  • ryvon30 - 2012-11-28 19:27

    hahahaha, how awesome would that be.....

      junaid.vanderwalt - 2012-11-28 19:36

      This is one strike worth supporting.

      mressop - 2012-11-28 20:05

      LMAO remember when they choon 'neh, we'll sort out the Cosatu okes." How? "Corruption, brah. Don't charge the [biggest road (ab)users for this dailight rapery] taxis.". Then they giggled gallantly. over a beer or something

      mark.a.fysh - 2012-11-28 23:33

      Well, yes, I would get a peverse pleasure in seeing Cosatu destroy these infamous toll-gantries. What though, is going to stop them from taking on their next project; burning white farms? I am very wary of this Movement, who are friends of convenience.

      richard.hipkin - 2012-11-29 11:08

      COSATU practised on the wine farms..

  • jandreleroux - 2012-11-28 19:28

    Do I smell some discord in the formerly very comfy union?

  • peter.norma - 2012-11-28 19:31

    I am not in favour of E-tolls, but surely threatening publicly to occupy public roads and destroy property is against the law? Where are the so-called leaders of this country to stand up to these thugs and put a stop to this lawlessness?

      piet.motsoeneng - 2012-11-28 19:40

      I agree, this is totally out of order. It will set a precedent for all other strikes. If Cosatu does this and is not brought to book, then our country is going down the drain. I am also against e-toll but this is not on.

      makarapakaplan - 2012-11-28 19:51

      If this isn't done the country will go down the drain quicker. So it is a necessary evil!! Govt doesn't understand anything less!!! Viva we will burn them!!!

      surfing.sam.9 - 2012-11-28 19:56

      I agree 100%, how can we condemn on one article that cosatu talks about violence against farmers and in this support them against e-tolls. Are we to thick to realize it or are cosatu working with a plan???

      Desilusionada - 2012-11-28 19:57

      vavi, Is that before or after the farms and the mines will be destroyed? Ever heard or passive resistance?........

      jay.kganyago.5 - 2012-11-29 03:29

      In this case the law defends highway robbers. So what then?

      Clive.D.Buckley - 2012-11-29 07:18

      I do not normally support violence BUT when there is no longer any other option open to us, when all legal avenues have been closed, then I am in full support of this action... sometimes the only way to deal with the school bully, is to punch him in the face!

  • logical007 - 2012-11-28 19:31

    As much as I'm against e-tolling .... here again Cosatu threatens to destroy toll booths.... Is this all this country knows how to do in a strike? Destroy, Burn Kill Stone!!!! And wonder why police want to shoot with live ammunition? come on Cosatu you have two hands in the gravy train of corruption with ANC... stop destroying SA and putting SA at a stand still every second week with your stupid demands on wages and strikes

      brian.exmachina - 2012-11-28 21:25

      It's because that's all that the government listens to. They've made it perfectly clear that they have no interest in having a civil debate about the matter. People said as much in the public sessions as well.

      dinesh.chetty.77 - 2012-11-30 13:18

      @Logical007. When someone treats you immorally and implements laws that an unjustice, then you d onot need to respect their unjustice laws. You have the moral high ground to burn it down.

  • sthembiso.jali.50 - 2012-11-28 19:35

    yha lets go for it. destroy the damn thing..

  • beverly.young3 - 2012-11-28 19:40

    I'm there just call me..........

  • Gorden Norman - 2012-11-28 19:41

    Yeah and while you at it burn the anc offices as well no wait burn all the political party's offices they are all crooks

  • altus.kirsten - 2012-11-28 19:42

    Something where the whole if SA will unite against. This is a worthy cause.

  • classwar.trotsky - 2012-11-28 19:42

    Good. The Working Class must organise. Destroy this tool of downright enforced theft ambush-capitalism.

  • godfrey.welman - 2012-11-28 19:42

    Go Vavi have our support.

  • ceba.mlandu - 2012-11-28 19:44

    Ya okes just bomb them

  • peter.woods.142 - 2012-11-28 19:46

    You go boy!!!! And while you at it , march to nkandla and destroy that too ! Fool !

  • rohin.jadin - 2012-11-28 19:46

    cosatu has lost my support with this claim. This is one cause I'm willing to march against - but if I join them and they proceed to damage property, it will make me no better than those municipal workers that go on the rampage and destroy public property. Saddened. I had hope for Vavi making a positive difference.

      brian.exmachina - 2012-11-28 21:29

      As much as I agree with your sentiments, I must point out that there is a difference in destroying infrastructure that provides a service and is meant to better a community (schools, libraries, traffic lights, trains, etc) and destroying infrastructure meant to exploit that does not provide a service or better the community. Their threat should be seen as a threat against corruption and the obviously illogical and impractical e-toll system; the collective threat of people forced with their backs to the wall. Sometimes, when everything has failed, all people have left to do is to physically stand up for themselves.

      juannepierre - 2012-11-29 06:10

      @Brian yeah, but if they remain up and we, the people, win this then those things will be a reminder to the government that we are not sheep, and will remind us that we can make a difference without behaving like zoo animals. Remaining in tact may prove more of a symbol of fighting against corruption, one which we can tell kids about in generations to come when they look up and ask, "what's that?"

      brian.exmachina - 2012-11-29 07:08

      Let me ask you something juannepierre. Did you attend the court case? Did you go on any of the marches? Did you donate money to OUTA? Did you attend the public e-toll sessions? I don't think you did, because if you did and you actually heard the government talking you'd know that they have no intention of giving anybody the opportunity of making "a difference without behaving like zoo animals". In all cases they told the public to stop complaining and accept the fact that tolls are here to stay. They even tried to convince us that we would in fact be saving money by spending money. As far as legal recourse goes we literally have the judgement of this OUTA case left. If the judge goes against us e-tolls is coming. The last 2 years of fighting against this system will have been for nothing, and dreaming sweet dreams of a government that listens will be over. What do you suggest then? Get tagged?

  • craig.decks - 2012-11-28 19:46

    LOL Priceless . .zoomer wanted things done the 'african way' He got it .. I shall be sure to be there with a zoom lens taking pics .. This will be better then the movie of the year .. hahahahaaa !

  • makarapakaplan - 2012-11-28 19:47

    Lekker!!!! I'm ready let go, down with SCAMRAL. Tsek jou moers!!!

  • lacrimose.wolf - 2012-11-28 19:51

    COSATU can never again claim that wanton destruction of property is the work of rogue elements. We all knew where these unwanted tendencies originated but finally they have openly admitted that the only way they know how to solve problems is through destruction. We can never hope to achieve the ideals of a democratic and Constitutional society whilst this attitude remains. For e-tolls specifically, there are other ways if the courts fail us. Do not sign up and refuse to pay. Act like a taxi driver and drive on the pavement :), have mass stay-aways. Blockade the road if you must (peacefully) but do not go down the destructive route. It will only be met with force and people will die

      mzwandile.sazona.3 - 2012-11-28 20:13

      I support your view Lacrmose.wolf

      piet.motsoeneng - 2012-11-28 20:36

      Spot on!!!

      dave.elmore.5 - 2012-11-28 20:50


  • thabo.manganye - 2012-11-28 19:54

    Viva comrades the economic freedom war must be fought till the government sees reason, why not divert the 250million for Nkandla to develop the roads, I know it will not be much but it will make a difference or use that to pay for the toll fees for the gauteng poor people. What is the use of paying tax if tje money is not being used to develop the country. Tax money should cover all those road developments. Damn SARS recorded high tax returns and you still want to take the little we left with to feed your already rich friends... Eish

      fussed.anderson - 2012-11-28 20:43

      You must remember 80% of that is just for Gov wages??????

      thabo.manganye - 2012-11-28 21:05

      And what happens to the 20%? Use it to pay lobola ?

  • frank.m.khumalo - 2012-11-28 19:57

    Protests laced with a bit of violence is the only language understood by Gvt. You will blog for million years on News24 no one will listen to you. Cosatu knows very well the language understood by gvt and how to deal with gvt as they are allies. Action is the really remedy to this madness. Let's stop blogging and take to the highways dismantle those installations, they are illegal.

      makarapakaplan - 2012-11-28 20:09

      Frank you right man!!!!

  • henry.vanderburpenfart - 2012-11-28 20:04

    I see an emerging market for Guy Fawkes masks.

  • alan.yates.18007 - 2012-11-28 20:06

    Cosatu says that the government of SA must stop the implementation of e-tolling..........but Cosatu, together with the ANC and the SACP, IS the government of SA. 'When thieves fall out....'

  • alexander721 - 2012-11-28 20:07

    with the story/investigation that was released in the weekend argus, it seems cosatu is going about this all usual.

  • piet.motsoeneng - 2012-11-28 20:07

    The March, I will support. Destroying the booths I dont support. If we support this then we should not have a problem with people who destroy farmer's property in De Doorns, mines destryed, schools destroyed when teachers are on strike and so on. While we fight for justice we should not loose sight of the bigger picture. South Africa will eventually be the biggest looser.

  • JohnDough - 2012-11-28 20:11

    I have an angle grinder that they can use.

      johnwilliam.roberts - 2012-11-28 20:26


      Cpho Addwin Featherbird - 2012-11-28 20:51

      Y dnt u go use it since ur againts e-tolling? U just wana comment and get fat on that bed while da blacks do all da work??

      JohnDough - 2012-11-28 21:12

      @ Cpho Addwin Featherbird - Shame, did you miss the gravy train 'cos of your low IQ?

  • pjg313 - 2012-11-28 20:13

    Violence would appear to be the black man's answer to EVERYTHING! And it would appear that it is the only language the Government (being black) understands. Once again...not a racist. Just reflecting.

  • chris.holloway.5 - 2012-11-28 20:13

    I will gladly help disassemble the gantries...gladly!!!

  • george.pito - 2012-11-28 20:13

    That is the only language they understand in the ANC so go for it.

  • george.pito - 2012-11-28 20:16

    By the way the same thing happened in Germany with etolling

      FinalJustice - 2012-11-28 20:23

      More info plz?

      lacrimose.wolf - 2012-11-28 22:03

      Be careful what information you give out. E-tolls in Germany are based on satellite technology and is valid for vehicles with a *weight over 12 tonnes*. In fact *most* European toll roads are only tolled when a vehicle is over a certain weight.

      lacrimose.wolf - 2012-11-28 22:11

      German e-tolls - Note they are based on the *weight* of the vehicle.

  • jane.warrington2 - 2012-11-28 20:16

    This is civil disobedience. Whatever you may think, destruction of property is not the answer. We need to withhold our payments not only from tolling but from government taxes in general to make our point. Who is paying for all the infrastructure? Us. Take back our power! DO NOT PAY TAXES - and deny the ANC the right to misuse your money

      linda.duits - 2012-11-29 08:33

      Please explain how we do not pay taxes? I work for a company, I am not self employed so my tax gets taken off automatically.I pay tax on petrol,food and everything else so how do you withhold tax?

  • Riaan Cloete - 2012-11-28 20:19

    Well they are supporting Zuma and now they want the Government to listen? duh! Zuma is the Government!

  • rian.dejager.3 - 2012-11-28 20:20

    COSATU = V-I-O-L-E-N-S-E breaking stuff also costs money...

  • mshiniboys - 2012-11-28 20:21

    Im not for vandalism so please do not destroy them they would rather stay unused.

  • jimmy.kawa.1 - 2012-11-28 20:21

    and the masses all want something for nothing. if they don't get what they want with 'negotiations', they loot, burn, destroy. why is there this savage mentality?

  • johnwilliam.roberts - 2012-11-28 20:23


  • jeanpierre.dumont - 2012-11-28 20:24

    Cosatu representing the poor - rubbish. The poor are not affected by tolling whatsoever. In fact mini-bus taxis and buses are exempt from paying tolls altogether so there will no affect on taxi and bus tickets. Cosatu are only getting involved because they have nothing better to do - remember they like to break things and cause any kind of disruption they can. I personally dont get what all the fuss is about. There are only 6m tax payers in SA looking after 50m people. Its not reasonable for government to fund massive infrastructure projects from such a small tax base. The Gauteng Freeway Improvement Project has delivered world class freeways to residents of Gauteng. Imagine the outcry if those road works were not completed? This kind of tolling is common place across the world - London, Melbourne and cities in the US have all implemented pay per use tolling. There is no conspiracy theory here - money has been spent, infrastructure has been delivered and somebody needs to pay for it. 6m tax payers money servicing basic needs of our population does not stretch this far.

      lacrimose.wolf - 2012-11-28 20:37

      Yes e-tolling has been successfully implemented in many places. However the profit is returned to the community that the road(s) serve and a significant portion of the profits are ploughed back into the roads of that community. According to the last accounting we were allowed to see, there would be no profit at all, just a massive debt that spiralled from R6.5billion to R71.billion(!) and nearly all the money they gather will leave the country.

      Thebigguyjim - 2012-11-29 06:15

      Then end up in corrupt ANC politicians overseas bank accounts.

      andrew.newman.98837 - 2012-11-29 09:58

      "The Gauteng Freeway Improvement Project has delivered world class freeways..." Do you not understand the word Freeway. Is it right when someone tells you its free and then demands you pay after the fact?

      mike.bundy.73 - 2012-11-29 10:32

      Erm Andrew: "freeway" means no stop signs or traffic lights. The way is free of interruption, not free of charge.

      gski700902 - 2012-11-29 12:10

      You state "The poor are not affected by tolling whatsoever". You think? So, when the price of goods transported by road (think about this carefully) rises, and every retailer passes those costs onto the consumer, you still think it's not going to cost anyone (never mind the poor)? I find it extremely unreasonable that 6m are expected to cough for 50m. How many of the 6m have unlimited income to continue coughing up more and more money whenever the ruling party decides to 'tenderpreneur' yet another project? Yes, tolling is commonplace in other parts of the world. Pause and consider though the vast difference between 3rd world Africa and 1st world Europe or the Americas. You don't get what all the fuss is about? Aren't you fortunate that none of the socio-economical issues in SA have no meaning for you.

  • trevor.pietersen.3 - 2012-11-28 20:29 THEY...terrorists.....HAVE THEY BOMBS to? not that I want tolgates

  • FinalJustice - 2012-11-28 20:35

    Maybe these booths can be put to good use in order to monitor unlicensed or stolen vehicles etc. And bear as resemblance to the day the peoples of SA said 'NO MORE'!

      piet.motsoeneng - 2012-11-28 20:42

      Well said!

  • Earl O Tool - 2012-11-28 20:38

    i would not destroy the booths, i would memorialize it as one of the many great achievements the ANC is doing, to bring on the more important changes needed for SA. already i have to learn the new street names in pretoria. perhaps they could somehow find away to decorate the booths with christmas lights. that would look nice and they can use 10mil of the countries money

  • rupert.badenhorst.5 - 2012-11-28 20:40

    Thank goodness. At last someone standing up for whats right for the people and not the government. Keep it up Cosatu. Show them that they should appoint people that can actually handle the finances in a ministry and stop looking at ways to get more money from the taxpayer. The Free State agrees.

  • dave.elmore.5 - 2012-11-28 20:42

    I'm tired of all these agendas from Cosatu, you can't be an alliance partner on the one hand and threaten destruction on the other, what games are on now? Anyone who supports the destuction of property in this manner is no better than those who have done spin the past. Don't register and delay payment for as long as possible, but destroy, no guys come on

  • frisco.raswiswi - 2012-11-28 20:44

    why taking long Mr Vavi,lets go 4 it fully armed of cause.

  • marina.poniatowska - 2012-11-28 20:45

    So who will pay for the reconstruction? Don't be idiots.

  • Abba Gti Shabas - 2012-11-28 20:46

    dnt u gt tired vavi nd ur frnds?wen it cums 2 strike u no ders wrkers,hw many ppl r jobles bcos of unions?u take our money every mnth nd wat d we gt 4rm union xcept u tel wrkers 2 strike 4 wrk no pay,d u thnk abt our kds?y dnt u use ur brains nd fix ds 4 da 1st tym on ur own?80 percent of wrkers dnt even hv drivers licence,nd u want dem 2 luz jobs jus 4u?nt dstroy us,take ur family 2 stike

      marina.poniatowska - 2012-11-28 22:00

      I have no idea what you are saying. Are all the vowels on your keyboard broken?

      linda.duits - 2012-11-29 08:34

      What are you trying to say?

  • Mandy Casey - 2012-11-28 20:47

    Everyone should join in unity to protest these e-tolls, the time is now.

  • anele.cweya - 2012-11-28 20:47

    After destroying it contact me on 082 THANK YOU I see lot of copper and metal there I can make fortune,gorvemnt loss, my gain

  • amanda.matthews.14811 - 2012-11-28 20:51

    Oh my word - thanks for the entertainment tonight everyone. You have seriously cracked me up laughing. Eish.

  • thembinkosi.jozie - 2012-11-28 20:51

    Now destruction of property and blocking of hiways is okay when it suits u but when its mineworkers and farmworkers they must be killed where are the Marikana police now?

  • Malose-Nyatlo - 2012-11-28 20:52

    Sounds like Marikana!

  • annette.vorster.54 - 2012-11-28 20:53

    Their forte is wrecking and destruction! No surprise there! He probably helped carting in stones when Me Zille wanted to visit Cosatu house! Oh dear Mr Spear, the tail is wagging the dog! . . . .John Vorster

  • david.louw - 2012-11-28 20:58

    If they strike & cause damage to public property that we, the tax payer, is paying for then they need to be met will the full force of the police, etc. Don't be so damn stupid & want to damage more property. I know it's very tough for them to act civilized. I wander what the world thinks of this mentallity. I'm quite saddened to say I live in South Afruca...

      jo.vankatwijk - 2012-11-28 21:34

      "The World" doesn't care about SA. They can't even find it on a map.

      lacrimose.wolf - 2012-11-28 22:24

      @Twolips - the 'world' will care because they are the ones getting 500% of toll revenue. None of it will stay in ZA