Demonising Israel not helping - SAJBD

2011-11-16 19:35

Cape Town - Demonising Israel makes no contribution to the Middle East peace process, SA Jewish Board of Deputies national chairperson Mary Kluk said on Wednesday.

"As Jewish South Africans, we long for a day when the people in Israel and Palestine can resolve their differences through meaningful dialogue so that they can live in peace side by side with secure borders," Kluk said.

She was addressing a symposium on the Middle East conflict hosted by Parliament's international relations and co-operation portfolio committee.

Kluk said: "We have seen the miracle of transformation in our own country and we know that situations that seem hopeless and desperate can indeed change and can result in parties coming together."

South Africans knew this process was not simple.

It came through the hard work of parties sitting around a table, trying to understand each other's insecurities and anxieties.

The challenge was for both sides to see the situation from the perspective of the other partner in the negotiation, Kluk said.

To overcome these obstacles, the parties themselves needed to work through painful and difficult issues so that they could constructively develop solutions.

"So the many initiatives that are constantly arising to demonise Israel make no constructive contribution to the peace process," Kluk said.

"They in no way encourage the parties to come to the table to work towards a negotiated settlement. All they do is polarise the two sides drawing a wedge between them that makes dialogue harder and harder to embark on."

Boycotts, sanctions, pseudo-legal tribunals, and apartheid and nazi comparisons did nothing more than detract from the critical objective which was to bring the parties together to find a solution for transformation.

"We should never be seen to impose solutions on another conflict," Kluk said.

"This has been our government's foreign affairs and international relations and co-operation policy since our democracy."

Kluk called on government to encourage the parties to work together towards building a sustainable peace in which the two-state solution was completed with a viable Palestinian state existing side by side with the Jewish state as its neighbour.

  • Chris - 2011-11-16 19:57

    Israel does not long for peace in the middle east, as a continuation of the status quo ensures justification for the illegal settlement expansions, military aid by the West etc. However, the situation will resolve itself sooner or later anyhow, all one has to do is look at the birth rates of Jewish people, and Israeli / Palestinians...similarly to the Apartheid government this is not a fight the Zionists will win in the long run. I wonder if there will be additions to the Samson Option (google it) to include neighborhoods which are majority Palestinians with Israeli citizenship.

      Dirk - 2011-11-16 20:22

      Israel has flourished against the odds. They have fought wars outnumbered thousands to 1 and supernaturally came out as victors. Clearly, you dont know Israel or its history

      BA - 2011-11-16 20:35

      Are you trying to imply that Israel can be equated with an apartheid state? Because if you are you that is a blatant, ugly libel.

      Barry - 2011-11-16 20:37

      @Dirk. Israel has flourished because the USA wanted it so. The USA is quite soon, in fact already, shown its concern about Israel and it most popular PM, Ben. How long is Israel going to chastise their neighbors ?

      Montagu - 2011-11-16 20:38

      @Dirk: "supernaturally"??? Cmon, dont be naive. We all know the superpower USA is propping the tiny state

      BA - 2011-11-16 20:42

      Montagu and Barry. Firstly, Israel has not always enjoyed US support, and survived without it. But in any event, you sound disappointed that the US supports Israel and that it survives and thrives. Would you rather see the destruction of Israel? Is that what you long for? The death of the Jews?

      Dirk - 2011-11-16 20:49

      With that remark, you have just revealed you ignorance. Not that I needed confirmation

      Chris - 2011-11-16 20:54

      @BA. Israel is an apartheid state without a doubt, as a matter of fact they perfected Apartheid, as they are still managing to avoid condemnation due to the powerful jewish lobby in the USA. As I stated before, Israel's Samson policy provides for genocide of people of a specific faith in their region, even if the a country such as China should threaten their existence. For people who suffered so greatly under Adolf Hitler, they sure took a lot of pages from his idealogical book. Regardless, I look forward to Iran obtaining nuclear weapons to balance out the mad zionist dog, this is the true path to peace in the middle east, someone who can stand up to the bullying of Israel. Mutually Assured Destruction assured peace in the cold war, I see no reason why it shouldn't work again. Again, when was the last time Iran attacked any other soverign country, considering Israel's recent incursion into Lebanon I think this is an important point. Iran has received lots of bad press by media controlled by pro zionist factions mostly in the USA, but really, when have they actually attacked anyone? I trust Iran more with nuclear weapons than Israel, again, the Samson option showcases the absolute madness of the state of Israel....which other country in the world actually has a plan for the genocide of an entire religious faction since Nazi Germany?

      Alan - 2011-11-16 20:55

      Chris, what would you like them to do? Let Hamas and Hezbollah bomb them and launch rocket attacks? The Israeli military attacks are based on intelligence reports - and no, I'm not talking about reacting to riots. Ever heard of Masada, where the Jews comitted suicide rather than fall into Roman hands? Every individual that enters the armed forces in Israel takes an oath that there will never be another Masada. They will not lie down and die. Their very existence is due to the fact that they can identify a threat and act against it and if someone strikes them they go in and root them out -ever heard of the 6 day war where Israel struck first against enemies massing on all sides ready to invade? It is unfortunate that Hamas operatives run and hide in Palestinian residential areas. I believe that Jews or Palestinians in general want to get on with their lives in peace - look at the gulf war where Sadam Hussein tried to provoke Israel into attacking Irak by hitting settlements with skuds. Palestinians sheltered Jews in their homes. Before the declaration of the state of Israel in 1948 Jews and Palestinians lived side by side. The Arab world swore to not rest until Israel was destroyed. I don't believe that the state should have been formed in hindsight as it just provoked the situation, but Israel warmongers? I strongly disagree.

      Barry - 2011-11-16 20:55

      @Dirk.. BA is not ignorant. He is misguided, as you are I think

      Chris - 2011-11-16 20:57

      @Dirk. Thousands to one? Really? It seems I do not know Israel or it's Histroy, please enlighten me with sources to support this statement....and with sources I mean facts, not magical stories about David & Goliath etc. Humour me..

      BA - 2011-11-16 21:07

      Chris posted before that Hitler is his hero. That says it all, doesn't it? If I could meet you face-to-face Chris, I'd teach you respect for the Jews, believe you me.

      Chris - 2011-11-16 21:08

      @Alan. The self defence crap went out the window with the Shalita massacres, Palestinians are exercising their right to defend themselves as best they can against Zionist genocide and oppression. Israel needs to stop blocking a Palestinian state, stop stealing land, stop chopping down olive trees, stop illegal settlements, stop blockading aid shipments, stop banning imports of things such as coriander to Palestine....Israel is the root of all strife in the middle east, and as they benefit from this conflict, no peace will ever be achieved until they are reigned in. Don't talk to me about the evil palestinian terrorists, give me a well sourced count of civilian deaths on either side for the last 60 years, because it's pretty much onesided. As I said, a simple google of Israeli massacres against Palestinians provides a lot of answers.

      Dirk - 2011-11-16 21:15

      Israel has been on the edge of collapse. They were thinking of a govt in exile when the then PM Golda Meir phoned Richard Nixon for arms(they PAY) Henry Kissinger, a Jew said"let them burn", but Nixon, seen by many as the most anti-semitic president ever, a Quaker, relented. There is a lot more to that story, but that was a miracle

      Dirk - 2011-11-16 21:22

      You are obviously a child. During the 6 day war, Israel was attacked by Syria from the north , Jordan from the East and Egypt from the south. Just the Egyptians outnumbered them 4000:1, but the Israelis literally chased them out of their boots. Thousand upon thousands of army boots were lying all along the Suez Canal as they ran. Funny and very pleasing. You must be a victim of recent SA school history

      Chris - 2011-11-16 21:26

      @Henno. Threatening physical violence over the Internet is highly entertaining to me. BA has not managed to respond constructively to a single argument aimed his way, with his standard response being Arrrgghhhh, jew-hater! I hope he isn't the best the Jewish Internet Defence Force has on offer....

      BA - 2011-11-16 21:26

      Ha ha ha, hey Chris and Henno. Jew-baiting is such a good laugh. But I can promise you now that I am no coward and you are big talkers behind your computer screens. If we were face to face, you'd be snivelling little boys. You can say or think what you want. We Jews are not going anywhere. We will fight for our homeland and for our right to exist. Say what you want, I know that we are strong and we will never be destroyed. The true God has judged you and the time will come when you will be sorry. so carry on laughing, clowns. Israel and the Jews will live and flourish forever.

      Chris - 2011-11-16 21:31

      @BA. Live and flourish forever...or until Iranians have their own Nukes, and their own Samson option, then not so much forever I guess. And Iran is soooo close to it too! And the best part is that the much of the machinery employed to enrich Uranium is from Siemens, a german company. Don't believe me, have a look at the networks the Stuxnet virus was supposed to attack, all made in germany! Everyone is out to get you, the german nazis, the iranian anti-semites, the ANC terrorists...the whole world is wrong, and you are the only ones able to see the light it seems! I am very glad to have my computer screen right here to hide from your righteous zionist wrath, literally trembling in my Kampfstiefel here.

      Chris - 2011-11-16 21:37

      @Dirk. Just the Egyptians, at a ratio of 4000 to 1 yes? So for every 1000 Israelis involved in the conflict, Egypt fielded 4,000,000? And yet Israel won....against insurmountable odds such as this. I am in awe at the fighting prowess of the zionists....and more-so, at your mathematical skills....colour me impressed!

      Alan - 2011-11-16 21:53

      @BA I'm not arguing with Chris. @Chris You obviously don't read very well. I didn't say self defence, at least I've read what I wrote again I don't think I did. Israel launch retaliatory and preemptive strikes based on early intelligence - exactly how long do you think they would survive if they didn't? Do you honestly think that they would strike with such ferocity if there was no threat? As for the Shatila massacres, not Shalitah, they were accused of not stopping it. Please show me where it states that they actually participated and where it states that they were actually aware that the attack was going to happen. I'm not anti Palestinian by any means, in fact I feel for the Palestinian people as much as I feel for the Israelis. So maybe you need to take a deep breath and calm down. BTW, did you really post Hitler as a hero?

      Chris - 2011-11-16 21:55

      @Henno. Although it is hilarious, there are sources (Israeli even) to support the notion of people being employed as shills to argue against any criticism of Israel on the Internet, ie, Jewish Internet Defense Force. I suspect that I have run into some of them before, and can say with some certainty BA isn't part of them, considering him not being able to form any sort of argument....and seemingly it also being past his bedtime now as he has become very quiet of a sudden.

      Chris - 2011-11-16 22:31

      @Alan. Fair enough, your points taken. I do however think that when debating the current problems in the middle east, one needs to set a certain time period applicable to modern Israel / Palestine. What happened in ancient times has no impact and arguably very little relevance in an argument about modern Israel. To answer your questions of whether Israel's existence was threatened at any point in her own existance, necessitating a pre-emptive strike, I would answer a sound No. Israel is backed by the USA, and there was, and still is exactly zero (existential) threat against them due to this arrangement. The fact of Israel comitting incredible acts of violence against Palestinian civilians is also beyond doubt if one just looks at the civilian cost of lives in the very recent Operation Cast Lead. Regardless, I'd like to ask you what reason Israel has to actually allow peace, a two party solution with Palestine? What is their benefit exactly, outside of 20 garage shop rockets noy being fired every few months. I can tell yoy what the downsides will be though! No more control over Palestinian infrastructre, or their VAT funds, or Airspace.....and no more illegal settlements once clear country lines are drawn. Israel has much more to lose than to gain from peace in the middle east. And they will do anything to keep themselves in the pound seat.

      Dirk - 2011-11-17 06:20

      Chris and Henno is so blatantly misguided and ignorant I can only believe that they either benefit materially from these terrorist states, or they have very misleading names. The ignorance, some would say stupidity, are at levels so extreme, it would be difficult to ascribe it to a human being.

  • Goliat - 2011-11-16 20:25

    Ms Kluk must think the rest of us are complete idiots. Insofar as Israel is being "demonised" its being done by the Nethanyahu governement, its attitude to Gaza and the West Bank, and particularly by the Zionist Settlers, who are stealing Palestine before our eyes in broad daylight. "[Critcs of apartheid in Israel] in no way encourage the parties to come to the table to work towards a negotiated settlement" ...? "All they do is polarise the two sides drawing a wedge between them that makes dialogue harder and harder to embark on" ...? What nonsense. Say that to Settlers and the Israeli government, or whatever you conceive to be "your" Government.

      Goliat - 2011-11-16 23:17

      What's happened to the loonie-Zionist BA's comment here, which I quite miss, because it says so exactly what the issue is here ...? He said earlier (but it's now vanished) in response to my opinion above: "I see on your profile you speak German. That figures you nazi pig."

      Goliat - 2011-11-16 23:58

      Thanks, BA (you coward for removing your racist observation)! That makes it very clear. What must an Arabic-speaker make of you and your kind ...?

      Goliat - 2011-11-17 00:15

      Or maybe someone from Liebermann-Zionist-Settler-HQ just phoned you and told you to stop being an ass. Your kind does the most damage to fascist causes, always.

  • Goliat - 2011-11-16 20:29

    Come on! Where are the hasbara hordes that are supposed to descend on those of us here who dismiss Ms Kluk trash ...?

      Barry - 2011-11-16 20:58

      @BA. Don't worry about Goliat..

      BA - 2011-11-16 21:00

      Barry - for once I respect your comments. I'll stop calling you a Jew hater. But see what we fight against?

      Chris - 2011-11-16 21:00

      @BA. Because anyone critizing Israel is Anti-semitic yes? You sound like Jimmy Manyi, any criticism of black people = racist, nevermind the facts. I speak german, and am therefore clearly qualified to say that Israel is a fascit country just like germany was.

      Dirk - 2011-11-16 21:01

      Rush outside for fresh air

      Barry - 2011-11-16 21:16

      @BA..Yes You think that the majority on the other side are like Goliat. They are not. They are just human.

      Goliat - 2011-11-16 21:36

      Zionist, Settler, fascist, apartheid Israel no longer needs enemies. It's its own worst enemy. See what we're up against?

      Barry - 2011-11-16 21:44

      @Goliat.. It is a pity you were born with fingers. Bless you.

  • tony_soprano - 2011-11-16 20:52

    Israel had been conducting an undercover war against Iran for decades now which to do with Iran's nuclear weapons programme.And it appears to be intensifying by the minute. Last weekend 17 people got killed at a military base near Tehran,the explanation given was that it was an explosion of some sort caused by munitions exploding whilst being moved or that liquid fuel used by the Shahab caught fire or that a test launch went wrong or something like that.It could also have been Israel or the Americans that blew it all up,who knows hey! The thing is that this area housed several Iranian missiles,including the Shahab 3 missiles in particular,which as we know are capable of reaching Israel.Whatever the cause for the explosion was,one thing is certain in that it killed a Brigadier General in the Iranian Revolutionary Guard who was very closely involved in Iran's alleged attempt to aquire nuclear weapons. Was it sabotage by Israel?Who knows!There is no proof for that,however it does fit the bill of a long pattern of covert warfare between these foes in the Middle East. Just last year 4 Iranian nuclear scientists were killed in what looks like a professional assassination attempt.The story goes how two men on a motorcycle drew up along side a car carrying a scientist.A bomb was stuck to the driver's car window at head height.Fereidoun Abbasi-Davani died as the motorcycle sped off through the Tehran traffic. Also in 2010 we saw the worlds most infamous computer attack.

      BA - 2011-11-16 20:58

      utter rubbish.

      tony_soprano - 2011-11-16 21:03

      The Stuxnet virus wormed its way into Iran's Natanz enrichment plant causing centrifuges to crash and delaying Iran's attempts to stockpile enriched uranium. Last month another virus appeared known as the Duqu 'cyber weapon'.It was said to be trying to gather information from the Iranian nuclear sites in order to allow a future cyber attack similar to Stuxnet. The Iranians admitted they had been targeted.What has not been acknowledged or proven,are the rumours that Israeli and British intelligence have been involved in ensuring that parts supplied to the Iran nuclear industry were either faulty and designed to cause damage to the users. Another mysterious incident involving Mohsen Rezai who is a senior Iranian politician and a possible contender for the Presidency.Rezai's son,Ahmed,was found dead in a hotel room in Dubai.Local media reported that they found a slit wrist and so it had to be suicide,yet the Iranians claimed he died of an electric shock. Suicide seems plausible and the son was not known to be an integral part of Iran's nuclear drive,but so is murder.Mohsen Rezai is wanted by Interpol in connection with the bombing of a Jewish cultural centre in Argentina in 1994 which killed 85 people. The fact that it has become an Argentinian incident brings us to the fact that it's not all one way traffic.Tehran denies any involvement in the killings,but the attack in Argentina resulted in Interpol issuing Red Notices for 6 Iranians they want to question.

      tony_soprano - 2011-11-16 21:10

      Iran does have a long reach.It can activate cells all over the world instantly and they have very strong connections in Gaza,and a proxy army in Lebanon in the shape of Hezbollah. The Americans had suffered hundreds of losses in Lebanon in the 1980's and at the hands of Iran.Iran was seen to be a part in almost all of those losses. More recently the Americans alleged that the Iranian concocted a wild plot to assassinate the Saudi Ambassador in Washington DC.And also this week the Bahrain government says it has uncovered an Iranian led plan to murder some of its own politicians.Again Iran says both claims are ludicrous. This is an ongoing war of spies,secrets and lies.We won't know all there is to know about the secrets,and we won't always know which are to be believed.What is clear is that Israel and Iran war of nerves with seems to escalate. .

      Barry - 2011-11-16 21:14

      @BA...Agreed RUBBISH !

      Dirk - 2011-11-16 21:26

      If Israel did attack Iran, a terrorist state with a terrorist president, it will be fully justified

      Barry - 2011-11-16 21:40

      @Dirk OH Come on !! Ben is THE terrorist of note world wide. Surely you know that. Even Obama knows that. Even the French PM.

      Dirk - 2011-11-17 06:11

      What is absolutely frightening here, is the gross ignorance expressed. Ahmadinejad, the terrorist president of Iran, when the Shah was overrun, was as a student, directly involved in the taking of American hostages. That by any definition, is terrorism. Now I see that Israel is accused of apartheid. That is ignorance in the extreme. Arab Israelis have more rights in Israel than they would in any arab state. Arabs can freely make themselves available for election to the Knesset( parliament)and many are members. Do not distort reality to support a misguided prejudice.

      Barry - 2011-11-17 08:50

      @Dirk.. I feel sorry for you. You read what Henno says above. Change WILL happen to Israel quicker than you think. If Israel does not wake up to this fact, they will not be prepared for a peaceful change. I prefer that change is peaceful unlike yourself. You cannot wait to get that extra glass of human blood to drink can you ?

  • Rita - 2011-11-17 00:26

    South-African jews all worked against apartheid in SA, in Israel they want it upheld. Can't have it both ways, Israeli apartheid has to go.

      Goliat - 2011-11-17 01:52

      I absolutely agree, Rita, that Israeli apartheid has to go. In fact, what prevails now in Palestine is what South African apartheid had hoped to be when it grew up: unquestioned force and authority against "terrorism," with international support. But did all SA Jews "work against apartheid" ...? Maybe. But not if you ask someone like Ronnie Kasrils, actually. The Israeli state sold the G4 cannon to the SA Apartheid state (as a new book has just confirmed). Probably also the SA atom bombs, as has been alleged for years. And Mossad and the old SA Security establishment had close ties. There's a difference between SA "Jews" - many of them patriotic, courageous South Africans who fought fearlessly against apartheid - and the Israeli state and its collaborators with apartheid, both here and there.

      Dirk - 2011-11-17 06:46

      Goliat- You must not take a slow drive to the doctor- you must call emergency services( if it still works in SA) to rush you to casualty- straight to ICU

      Barry - 2011-11-17 08:51

      @Dirk. I suggest you go with Goliat to the hospital. You both need help.

  • Joseph - 2012-05-20 01:03

    This woman is talking absolute rubbish. The stumbling block to peace is the continued building of settlements in occupied territory by the Zionists, the continued air raids and bombardments of Gaza, the continued violation of he rights of the Palestinian people just to name a few. The whole world recognises that Palestine is occupied. The Zionists do not want peace. They want to continue to kill innocent people

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