Ex-Blue Bull was planning to be Jesus Christ

2012-02-01 18:11

Durban - Former Blue Bulls flanker Phindile Ntshongwana was admitted to hospital after he showed symptoms of psychotic paranoia, religious delusion, and aggression, the KwaZulu-Natal High Court heard on Wednesday.

Ntshongwana's mother, Phyllian Letlaka, told the court her son's first contact with mental health services was on December 15 2009, when he was admitted to Durban's RK Khan Hospital.

"He presented symptoms of psychotic paranoia; religious delusions; aggressive behaviour; manic, pressured speech; irritable mood; and low self-esteem," Letlaka said, reading from a report.

The court is trying to determine whether Ntshongwana, who was in court, is fit to stand trial after allegedly killing four people with an axe in Durban last year. He also faces charges of attempted murder, one of kidnapping, and one of rape.

Letlaka said that on July 6 2010, Ntshongwana had relapsed and was re-admitted to RK Khan Hospital.

"He displayed symptoms of manic psychotic [sic] and he was argumentative," she said.

Records from Chief Albert Luthuli Hospital state that when Ntshongwana was admitted he was in an acute confused state with possible hallucinations. He was crying and repeating that he saw his late stepfather.

On Tuesday, the court heard that Ntshongwana was diagnosed with schizophrenia and a bipolar condition in December 2009, at RK Khan Hospital.

Ntshongwana's defence attorney, Sanusha Harripersad, submitted records from RK Khan, Chief Albert Luthuli, and Valkenberg Psychiatric hospitals.

The report from Cape Town's Valkenberg Psychiatric Hospital stated that Ntshongwana's insight into his diagnosis of mental illness appeared limited and he was unable to appreciate the full impact of his condition.

Kept a woman locked in his room

State Advocate Rea Mina asked Letlaka if she was aware that her son kept a woman locked in his room for a few days.

Letlaka told the court that she had seen and spoken to a woman who had visited her son. She said that when she had asked police if she could see the woman to determine if it was the same woman her son had allegedly raped, the police refused.

She said she spoke to the woman when her son was in his room and she did not show any signs that she was kidnapped.

When asked if she had noticed changes in her son's behaviour, Letlaka said no. She was always working and her son was always locked in his room.

Letlaka told the court there were two incidents where her son displayed aggressive behaviour before he was diagnosed with mental illness.

In one incident, Ntshongwana confronted his mother after she had told him to keep the newspapers in a visible spot in the house after reading them.

"He walked up the stairs towards me as if he wanted to attack me."

Letlaka said that after Ntshongwana was arrested in April last year, he told the police he was planning to be Jesus Christ.

When Ntshongwana was taken to Westville Prison, he refused to bath, eat, and change his clothes. His mother said he did not recognise her and his father on their first visit.

"He lost his speech, was making strange sounds, moving up and down. He looked absent-minded," Letlaka said.

She said her son's condition had improved with the help of the medication.

The matter was adjourned to February 24 for further investigation.

  • Zuljin01 - 2012-02-01 18:19

    Ex Blue Blue ???? guess it should be Ex Blue Bull ?

      john.h.viljoen - 2012-02-01 18:22

      the art of proof reading is dead!

      VoiceOfReason - 2012-02-01 18:33

      I was thinking the same.

      John - 2012-02-02 06:58


  • braamc - 2012-02-01 18:21


      Bryan - 2012-02-01 20:57

      Mental Illness is no joke buddy.

  • Christelle - 2012-02-01 18:35

    Blue Blue?

  • Ryan - 2012-02-01 18:36

    aaand, how is that different to any blue bull player?

  • Godfried - 2012-02-01 18:40

    Sad story. I feel for his parents. It is not easy hang in there!

  • Sharene Streak Zamojski - 2012-02-01 19:19

    I really feel for him. He was deputy head boy at my high school when I was in matric. I remember how good he was at rugby. Very sad indeed

      Luleka Ntshongwana - 2013-05-16 15:27

      Thank you Sharene, for remembeing Joseph. May you be blessed and all that is in our name.

  • Nurse - 2012-02-01 19:36

    What is the difference between this man and someone falling over, crying out and speaking in tongues at one of those new age born again churches? Not much if you ask me!

      Godfrey - 2012-02-01 20:00

      Cmrui snogglewash flumoxingcop stradavarius slobbadam maloshovic. 'Rolls around on floor * There we go. I feel better already.

      rlong1952 - 2012-02-02 00:12

      Well here we go AGAIN. Another opportunity to bash religions. I thought we stopped that on this forum at the end of 2011, clearly I was wrong. Get a life and talk about something else for a change.

      Scouter - 2012-02-02 07:44

      The way I see it Godfrey is that nothing I say would convince you and that is fine - you have every right to doubt and I respect that. Faith in God is very much a matter of personal conviction & therefore common decency should dictate that you should not contemptiously dismiss those who are comfortable in their beliefs. All I can say is that I am comfortable in my faith and therefore if you are right then I have nothing to lose, in any event. However, if my belief in God is correct then I have everything to gain in both this world and the next. My experience in my life so far seems to support this assertion. Please, for the sake of your own peace of mind desist from trashing out of hand the faith of others - you are only belittling yourself - nobody else.

      Scouter - 2012-02-02 08:55

      @jon - my apologies if it offended you. I was only copying it to include it relevant to this particulat thread - not everyone reads all the earlier comment.

  • Leon - 2012-02-01 19:42

    Ex-Blue Bull was planning to be Jesus Christ, so does all of the current ones

      Godfrey - 2012-02-01 20:01

      Yeah, but then it is all bull anyway.

      Scouter - 2012-02-02 07:59

      @Godfrey - on that score I agree with you at least. Anyone claiming to be 'the next Jesus Christ', in terms of Christian doctrine that is, needs to reconsider their biblical exegesis.

      Scouter - 2012-02-02 08:51

      @jon - yes, according to the scripture at least. No one will be in any doubt about the second coming, apparently. But hey, that's just according to the Christian Gospel of course - I'm not suggesting you have to believe it.

      Godfrey - 2012-02-02 10:14

      @Jon Scouter is a professional (I make my money peddling god) Xian. Criticism of religion puts his lifestyle at risk.

      Scouter - 2012-02-02 10:45

      @Godfrey - I do not believe I am the one feeling threatened right now. Your insecurity is beginning to show through, through your consistent jumping to conclusions and blurting out ill conceived apologetics - yet again.

      Scouter - 2012-02-02 11:15

      @Godfrey - the Scriptures tell us that blaspeming the Holy Spirit is the one unforgivable sin. Please stop your games - it might, and I stress the word might, be your undoing one day. Despite what you might think, not all Christians wish to see such an outcome for you.

      Godfrey - 2012-02-02 12:05

      Scouter - you are so sure of yourself but you keep - A) Avoiding providing evidence; B) Feeling forced to have to respond obliquely to me on every occasion. You have no evidence - admit it. And you are an income generating god peddler, arn't you?

      Scouter - 2012-02-02 13:20

      @Godfrey - I am not a 'God peddler' but one who takes your ridicule of my faith quite seriously. You will note that I have never trashed yours. You have much still to learn - one of which is exegesis, both on a secular and esoteric level. I am not a preacher just by the way - just a believer. Sorry, cant help that.

  • Boer - 2012-02-01 19:53

    lot of blue bull players committing murder these days...

  • JamesBotha1 - 2012-02-01 20:21

    Test him for drugs!!!!!!

  • The-Azanian - 2012-02-01 20:46

    nonsense, im sure the world wouldnt been the same if jesus was black. aah poor guy he should have known better and stick to rugby. jesus.

      Godfrey - 2012-02-02 06:07

      SO what colour was this Jesus fictional hero supposed to be? We know American Jesus is white. Jawellnofine!

      Scouter - 2012-02-02 08:39

      @Godfrey - Jesus fictional? I don't think so chap - the Roman chroniclers' writings don't seem to suggest He was a fictional character. I think in your enthusiasm you are confusing the man of history with the conjecture about his deity.

      Scouter - 2012-02-02 10:51

      @Godfrey(I assume that is a euphanism for being free of God?)- I do not believe I have ducked the issue at all. In fact, I said to you that I cannot provide any evidence that I believe would serve to convince you about the existence of God. However I'm happy he does exist which I am not tryng to force on you - I'm merely pointing out to you that others have their own cause to believe and that you should stop trashing that God given right. I'm comfortable in my belief - learn to live with yours.

      Scouter - 2012-02-02 12:26

      @Godfrey - "Are you believe in a god without evidence". It might surprise you to learn that I once shared your scepticism. Then I decided to diligently investigate the evidence that exists - intellectualism turned to faith with proper academic investigation. Suggest you embark on the same route - rather than hold forth on ill conceived perceptions.

      Scouter - 2012-02-02 12:46

      @Godfrey - "You have been asked so many times but you continue to duck the issue". You asked me once and I replied, by your own admission. Keep up to speed Godfrey/Free of God

      Scouter - 2012-02-02 15:51

      Godfrey(Free of god)- "Are you believe in a god without evidence. Why do you still not believe in Santa, the Tooth Fairy and the Easter Bunny" No - Because non of them represent experience - Christ does, however, for me at least. Call me naive if you will. Get over your anger.

  • Erich - 2012-02-01 21:20

    I always experienced Loftus as life threatening if you enter it wearing the wrong colours.

  • Eric Schollar - 2012-02-01 21:41

    He probably really meant he was going to be Naas

      ian.willow - 2012-02-20 18:12

      Naas to who?

  • Scouter - 2012-02-01 22:46

    Steroids, I reckon.

  • Andries - 2012-02-02 01:21

    Hospital? Court? What is this article about?

      Andries - 2012-02-02 01:24

      Is this about the whole team? Or Malema? Jub-Jub? I am getting lost in all these funny reports about funny people.

  • Mel - 2012-02-02 02:41

    Wish he killed himself before he got the chance to kill others.

  • LindiBleu - 2012-02-02 07:57

    this is one of the hardest things for me, and I think those that knew him, to deal with. hearing this diagnosis, and remembering the rugby legend he was in high school, is epic. I remember how he would stand up for us when we had to deal with racism in a school where we were outnumbered, and some white boys would be a bit overzealous in their attention. and now to be reduced to this. what he did was wrong. there was no excuse. he should have taken his medication, but most mentally ill people are not capable of understanding how important their medication is. I dont want to say I support him because I would be condoning his actions, but he is in my prayers, as are his victims' families - but I will rather hold on to the memory I have of Big Joe, not the sad spectacle that he is now.

      Luleka Ntshongwana - 2013-05-16 15:23

      I'm only seeing this post for the first time and I'm moved. That there is somebody out there who is not afraid to have known Joseph. May God bless you and all that is in your name.

  • Jayne - 2012-02-02 09:19

    Mental illness is such a huge problem in this world that we live in! The problem especially with Bi polar is that the sufferer feels better after taking the meds and stops them for that reason. Many violent acts have been perpetrated by bi polar sufferers off meds, this needs to be addressed as a serious issue.Perhaps a family member needs to be appointed as a witness to the daily use of the meds and the psychiatrist should be notified when the sufferer stops meds so that they can be monitored????? I speak from personal experience and do not mean to generalise or offend.

  • Scouter - 2012-02-02 11:48

    @Godfrey - you still here? Come on chap - I'm sure you have much still to share. I personally always respect the opinion of others as much my right and yours to challenge it. You seem to be pretty good at it - and that is not to say that you are wrong.

      Godfrey - 2012-02-02 12:13

      You have no evidence - you are either exceptionally block headed or you derive your income from pedding BS. Debating religious nuts on the topic of the existence of a god is rather like trying to play chess with a pigeon — it knocks the pieces over, craps on the board, and flies back to its flock to claim victory. I note you have never denied you make you bread peddling go so you sure ain't going to make an admission you are selling snake oil. BTW - How much money do you make out of the god nonsense.

      Scouter - 2012-02-02 12:29

      Seems you are running out of sensible argument Godfrey - I don't believe you are free of God for one moment.

      Scouter - 2012-02-02 13:11

      @Godfrey - naturally I head a massive charismatic congregation, drive a Porche, have not one, but two mistresses(often together on any one night) amongst my followers and really have a blessed life all round and the ability to influence world political leaders, thanks to my warped Christian belief. That's what you would like to belive, in any argument. No - sorry to disappoint I'm just a basic community worker.

  • Scouter - 2012-02-02 12:49

    Come on Godfrey - your silence is letting your argument down

      Scouter - 2012-02-02 12:59

      @Godfrey. Just by the way - copying insulting 'googled' quotes does your cause no good what so ever. Apply a little bit of decorum in your postings and actually bother to take a little time out to study the subject you love to trash.

  • Scouter - 2012-02-02 13:55

    I guess Godfrey has given up - let's hope it is for good although I somehow doubt it.

  • Scouter - 2012-02-02 14:41

    Sorry to repeat my self @Jon but I am still waiting a reply from the Guru; You are confusing issues, yet again Godfrey. Let me get this clear - are you against all religion or just a specific faith? Do you believe in any higher power than yourself is what I think I am asking you? You die and that is it? Back to dust.

      Scouter - 2012-02-02 16:20

      @Godfrey(Free of God) - to quote you, I'm "waiting"....... or is the god that is you, found to be wanting a sensible reply?

  • Scouter - 2012-02-02 17:47

    @Godfrey - by the way, what do you do for the good of humanity other than sit on a keyboard spouting ignorance? I know what I do, but I guess you would find it demeaning.

  • Luleka Ntshongwana - 2013-05-16 15:29

    No matter what the world says about you, you are my brother and I love you even more.

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