Extent of black land ownership unknown

2012-05-25 10:58

Johannesburg - The state cannot determine the extent of agricultural land ownership by black commercial farmers, because the deeds office does not keep records based on race, Beeld reported on Friday.

Mdu Shabane, director general of rural development and land reform, told this to a parliamentary portfolio committee this week.

Shabane was taken to task by Democratic Alliance MP Athol Trollip, because of the government's ongoing assertions that only a small percentage of land was in the hands of blacks, while black people were increasingly buying land on the open market.

Shabane said that since the 1996 adoption of a Constitution with non-racial principles, the deeds office no longer kept records based on race.

The state therefore only knew how much land had been acquired by black owners as a result of the government's redistribution process, as the government kept records of the race of people land had been given to, Shabane said.

Trollip pointed out that it was impossible for the state to determine to which degree its stated goal of placing 30% of agricultural land ownership in the hands of black owners could be achieved, if private purchases by black owners were not factored in to the equation.

  • Sharon - 2012-05-25 11:06

    OK, here is the loaded question. If they cannot determine the extent of black land ownership, how can JZ stand up in parliament and quote percentages?

      Koos - 2012-05-25 11:20

      I would like to know the answer to that question.

      E=MC2 - 2012-05-25 11:23

      wow, thats a good question!!

      Eternity - 2012-05-25 11:28

      Simple answer government make up ALL data. I still have not been counted in the 2011 census and I called their helpline 4 times to organise getting countedn but kept getting told they would contact me later. Who knows what, if anything, they put down for my residence.

      Loo - 2012-05-25 11:31

      Exactly Sharon, well said. SAME then goes for % of businesses owned by blacks( Another thing that gets quoted right left and centre)

      Kala - 2012-05-25 11:35

      I can't imagine that some one with a surname like Greyling or Van der Merwe could be black. Surely you would be able to get a relatively good idea by the names on the title deeds, unless the farm is owned by a Company.

      Zambezi - 2012-05-25 11:44

      The government needs to implement a policy whereby all white farmers with land of more than 100 acres need to give up half of their land back to the government for redistribution to black people.This will sort out the land issue ...............feenish and klaar.

      Eternity - 2012-05-25 11:54

      @Zambezi And how will they even start doing this if they don't know who owns the land? if you read the article you would realise there are bigger problems here then just land reform.

      Felix - 2012-05-25 11:54

      @Zambezi or how about, we load up everyone without land and kick them into Zimbabwe? That will also work.

      Keg - 2012-05-25 11:58

      So Zambezi we need to give up half of a productive farm that provides jobs and is sustainable to someone who knows sweet jack about farming to do what with? Seen this before haven't we? What percentage of redistributed land has produced anything sustainable? I have read that majority of the re distributed farms were sold back the original owners How about giving unused land next to or near farmers and implement a mentorship/training scheme from existing farmers to help. this will never happen because it makes too much sense for the ANC and their supporters just have a "Give me, give me" attitude

      Zambezi - 2012-05-25 12:08

      All the talk of past land reform failures are just political propaganda by agents meant to keep land in the control of a few.

      Eternity - 2012-05-25 12:11

      @Zambezi and the fact that they can't even say who has what, is that propaganda too? Wake up, it's all being done wrong

      Antipoaching - 2012-05-25 12:22

      @ Zambezi Govt admits that the huge majority of land claim recipients (who got farmland) are now worse off than they ever were because their farms have failed, so, we give all this land to the landless and then??? I live in the Eastern Cape and a huge number of land recipients are dumping their farms on the open market because farming is a hard way to make a living.So must govt keep throwing money into these bottomless pits and import more and more food to feed the nation?

      sonet.vd.westhuizen - 2012-05-25 12:32

      Very convenient!!! They will never reveal the truth as they will then be exposed!! I think the government owns the majority of land in SA!

  • Azande - 2012-05-25 11:09

    Ok DG, nice joke. now be much belong to blacks? you cant say you dont know.

  • Erna - 2012-05-25 11:10

    How convenient. But pray tell, how do you than make the continuous statements that xx% of land belongs to whites?

  • Marion - 2012-05-25 11:15

    Think it is time that all white farmers/Agriforum advise the deeds office which farms they know of that belong to black farmers. Maybe that way we will at least get a reasonably accurate picture. Pathetic that the deeds office does not require race to be declared when that information is obviously pertinent to determining the true extent of land distribution.

      Sharon - 2012-05-25 11:22

      I think if the true figures can be released, the ANC will end up looking extremely stupid (again). I don't think they'd want that. As long as the people believe their lies, they are happy.

      Marion - 2012-05-25 11:29

      If anyone knows the true extent of land distribution it has to be the farmers themselves. Your point above is valid i.e. 'how can JZ stand up and quote percentages'.

      bheki.dingiswayo - 2012-05-25 12:41

      Not farm but land

  • Koos - 2012-05-25 11:19

    Ag bliksem man. Het jy nou al 'n wit Dlamini, Masilela, zuma gesien. Dom soos n plank arme donners. Enige verskoning om nie die feite te openbaar nie.

      Aphiwe - 2012-05-25 14:27

      My friends surname is Jacobs and she and the rest of her family as as black as u never will be...

  • Nigel - 2012-05-25 11:20

    I'm always amazed at their obsession with Land. When they get it, through legal or illegal means, it just stands there. If it was a working farm it's barren within a year. Look at the massive Tea plantation near Tzaneen just as one of many examples. If it's open 'unworked' land, it just stays like that. So what do they want all this land for?

      E=MC2 - 2012-05-25 11:27

      thats the problem... they're all about land land land, but when they get the land, they have no idea what to do with it!

      Harry - 2012-05-25 11:35

      They just want it all and will never stop, just like in Zim - thereafter they ask for food, because their "economic freedom" lasted only for a short while.

  • E=MC2 - 2012-05-25 11:23

    another check next to the "I have no idea what Im doing" box on the ANC's list of things they cant do! All this hoorah about passing land ownership onto Blacks & they didnt even have anything in place to track it. NICE!

      Peter-Peter - 2012-05-25 11:30

      one word....'greed'

      Eternity - 2012-05-25 11:58

      I really do hope people are waking up with all of this and demand a better government

  • Hermann - 2012-05-25 11:25

    Good for the Deeds Office, they see us all as South Africans and not as African colour schemes.

  • eyesears.handsfeet - 2012-05-25 11:25

    The deeds office does not have to keep records of race. Just count the bleddy deeds and you have your number + private black owned and for the private black owned number consult the banks for data. Not a mystery at all. But on the other hand, it seems that this may once again be used as a de-lay tactic of the state because they either really don't know what the truth are and they are trying to figure out, because of continues claims that are being made by the anc and cronies, or they really do know and once again trying to bs the people for another, "feel sorry for me" election campaign in stoking the fires and keeping them well and alive.

  • henkvdwatt - 2012-05-25 11:26

    Come on the deeds office got ID nr`s and ID`s are linked to race at home affairs. What about Transkei and all the tribal land that is in the government’s name?

      Marion - 2012-05-25 11:31

      @Watt - never thought about the id link. Good point.

  • billyboy6 - 2012-05-25 11:27

    Hurrah for the Deeds Office that follows the constitution. About the only government department that does. Now its time to drop the quota and target set by cabinet. There is lots of land available in the open market. Rather use the Development Bank and Land Bank to help black farmers to acquire land using commercially viable applications

  • Hermann - 2012-05-25 11:29

    I quote from the news item "Shabane said that since the 1996 adoption of a Constitution with non-racial principles, the deeds office no longer kept records based on race." Huh? What about BEE, the Labour Equity Act and continuation of affirmative action? Surely that contradicts what Shabane referred to.

  • edandchris - 2012-05-25 11:32

    Who employs these idiots???????????????

      William - 2012-05-25 11:52

      We do? Time to put them on notice

  • djgmaestro - 2012-05-25 11:41

    Jus come out with it, We all know blacks have zilch/ nada/ nothing in that regard.

      Felix - 2012-05-25 11:58

      Weird, thanks for the info. There are a few farmers where I live that need to be informed that they are no longer black.

  • balysteriousy.wakasivireon - 2012-05-25 11:48

    Maybe the State should expropriate land without compassion & eradicate the willing seller, willing buyer approach then the 30% of agricultural land ownership by blacks can be reached within a term of five years.

      Marion - 2012-05-25 11:58

      Hi Juju - thought you'd been gagged. Don't you mean without compensation?

      Sharon - 2012-05-25 11:59

      Farm murders fall into the "without compassion" category. Maybe you meant "without compensation", or was that not a typo to begin with???

      balysteriousy.wakasivireon - 2012-05-25 12:19

      @ Marion dont push it, thieves who wants compensation. as for Juju watch out for his return(Blacks will rejoice for the return of a beast)

      Bless Boswell - 2012-05-25 12:47

      Well that really puts it into perspective!

  • Victor - 2012-05-25 12:20

    Surely the land has to be registered in someones name ? How stupid do they think people are !!! So What they are saying is that they will give land to anyone without taking down any details, then I would also like a couple of hundred hectres of land in keimoes as I would also like to do a bit of farming ?????

  • Gerda - 2012-05-25 12:22

    BS........ and what about census we ALL had to complete..........

  • Falcovrod - 2012-05-25 12:43

    O my word, they can not determine this.....well, i am sure there are loads of black farmers, with surnames such as van der merwe, roux, du toit, roos, davel, etc.......F@#$% you tell me they can not see that.....nonsense, they are hiding the true figures just to continue with the land distribution!

  • Tax - 2012-05-25 13:36

    Just tell us how much land King Goodwill owns to begin with...

  • Aphiwe - 2012-05-25 14:25

    Notice how he always uses percentages of the LAND GIVEN BACK THROUGH THE PROCESS OF REDISTRIBUTION not the number of people that have received land. E.g If they claim 70% of land then we can say that of that 70% only 5% has been redistributed. You guys are'nt really bright are you...

  • Zion - 2012-05-26 08:12

    One of the greatest contradictions of our time. surely a surname should suffice. At least 90% of the Black names could be counted as Black Farmers.

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