Finality on Pretoria name by June

2012-04-12 14:16

Johannesburg - There should be finality by June on whether Tshwane would be gazetted as the new name for the city of Pretoria, Arts and Culture Minister Paul Mashatile said on Thursday.

"I don't think it will take more than two months," said Mashatile on the sidelines of the national workshop on the standardisation of geographical names.

Mashatile said that although the name Tshwane had been decided on, with the name Pretoria remaining as the name of a suburb, more consultation was needed.

"In my view there will be no harm to have one more consultation with people who have concerns," he said.

"South Africans must decide if the capital city is Pretoria or Tshwane."

The Freedom Front Plus, which is opposed to changing Pretoria's name to Tshwane, said in March it was in talks with the African National Congress over the renaming issue.

We are not killing anybody

FF+ is also opposed to renaming streets in the city.

Earlier, Mashatile said people need not fear the transformative and inclusive exercise of renaming places in South Africa.

"We are not killing anybody, we are talking changing for the better," Mashatile said.

But, people must become involved in the debates and processes of name changes and be initiators for name changes in their areas.

"We must make sure that we all agree on who we are, what we call ourselves," he said.

"If you think KwaZulu-Natal's name is something you don't like, you obviously have to go to KwaZulu-Natal and participate in a process of renaming. If it will happen - it won't come from Pretoria.

"But let's not be gripped by fear because names must mean something to people."

  • Cassandra Olivier - 2012-04-12 14:23

    They must keep the name Pretoria and use the money to build houses

      Cassandra Olivier - 2012-04-12 14:43

      @ Gigo the names they want to change them to mean nothing to me and the street names that we have mean nothing to me. What's in a name? I am just made cause they could be using the money for schools and homes for the poor. We don't have public transport thanks to the taxi drivers go overseas if you want to see real public transport

      Wimpie.Haefele - 2012-04-12 14:45

      @Sganja, most of us have never heard of 99% of the struggle heroes of the ANC, and a lot of people feel the same about the ANC struggle heroes as the ANC they feel about the NP. The bombing and killings targeting woman and children in malls is not acceptable and the people performing those action are now praised and cities and streets named after them.

      Piet - 2012-04-12 14:46

      who is Chris Hani?

      malcolm.molver - 2012-04-12 15:06

      Who is Masabalala Yengwa? Margaret Mncandi?

      Thabang - 2012-04-12 15:33

      the must be change,the issue of money doesnot hold,when names were changed by a white racist government the was no issue of money why should now money be an issue.

      Annelie - 2012-04-12 15:54

      @Trurio - I didn't complain then, because I wasn't born yet. And looking at your Facebook profile, neither were you.

      Scouter - 2012-04-12 16:10

      No need to shout @Trurio - it's generally considered to be rude......

      Randomhero6661 - 2012-04-12 16:48

      ah trurio... it appears to me that more and more illiterate human beings have found way to the internet. (see i said human beings not black or white people) you are far from black anyway, get a color chart. and see the difference, racism is an old outdated way of thinking so is the blame game...let's move on already, how we gonna change the past??? by revenge of changing names??? come on!!! this is solely meant for you, want to voice opinion and be heard do it publicly otherwise STFU and stop riding the donkey cart of the past, because you will be nothing and therefore contribute to nothing. Smart humans need to evolve not under par ones. Simple, yet ugly but so logical!

      Irene - 2012-04-12 18:12

      THABANG ~ The white racist government you refer to NEVER HAD TO CHANGE ANY NAMES. They built the roads and the buildings so no money was spent in changing any names as they actually built the structures. Now your anCancer wants to claim the roads and buildings as their own and call it by some 'struggle' hero and nobody else knows of. If they want to do that, why not build a new building or build a new road and then give it a name?

      Shirley - 2012-04-12 18:20

      @Thabang: As opposed to what-the black racist government?????

  • siyadyosiba - 2012-04-12 14:40

    Minister Pravin Gordhan allocated the budget to all ministries and the key policy strategic programmes. Arts and Culture was amongst the ministries that were allocated budget to carry foward their mandate. It is therefore in the interest of the public that Minister Mashatile uses his budget in accordance with PFMA, that is,for exactly what it was earmarked. We humbly request the Minister to do the right thing PS: "Pretorius" does not sound good in this day and age, Tshwane is.

      Anthony - 2012-04-12 14:46

      what yoor limited inteligence seems to miss is that even if government allocated the money ---wasting money is wasting money ---lets rather build houses --now stop talking nonsence and wash the car

      Gerald - 2012-04-12 14:50

      Who the hell was Tshwane and what did he do for the town that was named Pretoria not Pretorius as you put it

      siyadyosiba - 2012-04-12 15:17

      @Anthony, pointing a finger is dangerous. If you not well clued up with Public Funds Management, you better keep your mouth shut and listen to those that know better. Just FYI, the resources (money included) that are being used for this name changes project were planned and budgeted for before the budget was even allocated by Godhan. The ministry saw it proper to plan for name changes hence the finance minister allocated the funds in accordance with the department plan. If you personally feel its waste, you better lock yourself in your small farm and cry a river because SA government (ANC constituency) do not share the same view you have, and name change is going ahead with and without your approval.

      Mark - 2012-04-12 15:31

      Siyadyosiba. You sound governmental. Are you a Civil Servant? The funds might have been made available, but that is not the point. The Council has not asked actual ratePAYERS of Pretoria to vote on this name-change. They know they will lose.

      siyadyosiba - 2012-04-12 19:18

      @Rustic, I was a public servant. The point I am making is that, movement of funds from one portfolio to another is against PFMA especially funds that were initially earmarked for a specific function. People whom are saying, the name change funds should be moved elsewhere ie housing, education etc, is not going happen simply because few people are against the name change initiative, besides it would be unlawful to do so. Housing, Education and other ministries were allocated their budgets. If there is a shortage of funds in those ministries, the process is to request additional funding from National Treasury. So, people should stop fooling themselves.

      Anne-Marie - 2012-04-12 20:17

      @siyadyosiba Since when have the government cared about using funds accurately??? They have still not accounted for the hundreds of millions of rands of irregular expenditure which showed on the public funds 2011 audit. On another note, people from all around the world know Pretoria as Pretoria. You might change the name to Tshwane, but they will still be asking for directions to Pretoria when they visit :-)

      siyadyosiba - 2012-04-12 20:37

      @Anne, yes I agree there is widespread irregular practises within the ranks of government but I do not think that should be an an excuse for doing more of it. The people who will ask for directions will eventually be fine. It takes one or two requests for directions, the third time u are ok.

  • Charl - 2012-04-12 14:40

    If anyone wants to know the origin of street names and places in Pretoria follow this link:

  • Piet - 2012-04-12 14:46

    Change it to Tswane, the name no longer represents Pretoria. Vandalised Schubart flats, Scummy side, failing municipality, unmaintained infrastructure....

      Frank - 2012-04-12 16:17

      exactly piet.same goes for joburg and durban,just change those names too and be done with it.what were once beautiful world-class cities are now nothing but high rise townships,an absolute disgrace.a typical african name for a typical african city,very fitting.

  • Melanie - 2012-04-12 14:53 right due! let them call it something else. Pretoria used to be a beautiful clean place. Lets then refer to Pretoria as the place it used to be...the new name can represent the piece of crap it has become.

      Scouter - 2012-04-12 16:16

      @Trurio - you are shouting again and that is extremely rude. For the second time - or do you have learning difficulties?

      Randomhero6661 - 2012-04-12 16:51

      oi caps is just above shift and no that is not your car gear...

      Shirley - 2012-04-12 18:22

      Tshwane represents where people live in shacks along the road or sleep on cardboard!

  • vuyo.zuccherro.gqwaru - 2012-04-12 14:53

    The ANC changing street names, city names and airports is just a move to show they are are running the show, I mean, I don't see anything wrong with the old names, in fact I detest the new ones. These name changes are just unnecessary expenses that will fall on the tax payers, while government could be using those taxes to improve the infrastructures that need improving and build new ones. Another thing, we get that these people participated in the struggle but to name everything after them? Like hello? They were not forced to fight in the struggle, I'm sure they were thanked and their families got tenders, now why do we have to be stuck with things like Manto Tshabalala-Msimang avenue?

      Andres - 2012-04-12 15:31

      Shame Bluzulu: Have to resort to calling him names because he has a different opinion.

      siyadyosiba - 2012-04-12 19:58

      I'm sure your dad/mom are not proud to be your parents. Totally clueless. Shame, teething problem.

      vuyo.zuccherro.gqwaru - 2012-04-13 07:22

      Well, it's a good thing they gave birth to someone who has a fully functioning brain (ME), who does not buy all the rubbish th government is selling us. By your comment I'm guessing you are an ANC member/supporter, because with ANC people, no one is entitled to have an opinion, except ANC people. So my friend, do enjoy your tenders, make sure you go shopping at the new mall, it's on the corner of Tony Yengeni Drive and Jackie Selebi road -pukes-

  • Paulo - 2012-04-12 15:01

    I know, why dont all the people who have a rates account (thats not in arrears) vote on the name change-if its Tshwane then so be it. a part of still can't help but think to myself, if you're so intent on a name instead of re-naming just build a place and call it what you want.-what a chop

      Cassandra Olivier - 2012-04-12 16:25

      My family will be voting that the name stay Pretoria we believe the money can be used more constructive even my friends who are non white said the name change is a waste of money

  • KReddy - 2012-04-12 15:02

    Do they know what havoc this causes to our land administration systems that are in place? Records at the deeds and surveyor generals offices will have to be amended to incorporate these changes, town planning applications will be chucked out with no errors on them just for the change of a name, development will be held back, so many IT systems will have to be adapted. \r\n\r\nTshwane is the municipality name that covers Pretoria, so what is the problem? As far as I know, the people that reside in an area must be the ones to initiate name changes and it must have valid reasons to do so. There's legislation wrt this. \r\n\r\n\r\nSigh.

      bluzulu - 2012-04-12 15:17

      And your Point? All good things take time and effort. We do not want to drive down a street or live in cities named after perpetrators of crimes against Humanity Mr. Reddy.

      bluzulu - 2012-04-12 15:25

      If the names stay the same , If and when you have kids and they ask you why is our city named Pretoria you can explain to them WHAT this character did to receive this recognition for their infamous deeds( Do you actually know why names are chosen or just bury your head in the sand cos' if you are aware of the unscrupulous deeds perpetrated by these dropkicks , you would have a different view)......even kids know this is NOT ON.

      KReddy - 2012-04-12 17:50

      I can see your point to a certain extent but I don't want to tell my kids that the name came from fresh air. Rather, I would want them to fully understand the atrocities of the past, in general, not because of a street or city name. History can't be wiped out no matter what is done.\r\n\r\nFyi, I'm a land surveyor in government employ and I am fully aware of the disasters that name changes come with. Where did the name pretoria come from if I may ask you?

      bluzulu - 2012-04-12 18:05

      Ah Mr. Reddy, You illustrate ignorance beyond belief. The name Tshwane does not come from fresh air, as a South African you should know that before this area was called Pretoria the Indigenous name was Tshwane. This is the history you should relay to your kids mate.

      KReddy - 2012-04-12 18:27

      You are too quick to judge people. I'm not your friend, mate or buddy. As I said, I'm a land surveyor very well equipped with the history of south africa, more than u know. So please, don't throw out that I am ignorant. \r\n\r\nJust so you know, the world is becoming one big global community. Worry about china who are coming, than the past.

      bluzulu - 2012-04-12 19:27

      ""I can see your point to a certain extent but I don't want to tell my kids that the name came from fresh air"" Here is the example of your ignorance , didn't judge. The evidence is your words above. I educated you on it's origins, Thought I was doing you a favour nevertheless I am A Civil Engineer charged with upgrading the National Ports infrastructure currently and if many of the posters here where actually involved in the actual mechanisms that turns the wheels of Industry and growth in RSA, they would not be so negative about this country's future. We will never forget the struggle and it will forever be thought to our kids to ensure that the crimes against humanity are never repeated. You see the main point here is We cannot give recognition to INFAMOUS people. Do yourself a favour and visit the world and see how they have evolved from colonization. Visit Germany and see how much of Hitler is publically displayed....NONE. you will only find this Fascist in a Museum where he and the Apartheid names belong . Names must revert to the original names . This is going on all round the world. As far as calling you mate that the way I deal with people however as a distressed/impatient/selfish RSA member of the public, This is an alien format to you.

  • bluzulu - 2012-04-12 15:05

    Embrace the change....Tswaneeeeee....sounds RSA to me and others. Why must Mr. Andries Pretorius receive recognition for his misdeeds? Places change ....names change...damnit even the weather changes embrace the new RSA as Africans, not scorn it as Europeans cos yous are not Europeans Yous are Africans first.

      DuToitCoetzee - 2012-04-12 15:33

      What 'misdeeds"? Where was he born? Did he perhaps settled in an area and build/start the city? .......or did he 1st bulldoze all buildings down and than started the settlement? Stop using cheapskate politics to change everything hoping the people will vote for you instead of what they deserve. Food & Jobs. I am African and that is what MY people now need!!!!

      Mark - 2012-04-12 15:39

      Actually, RSA sounds like a Boer name, Bluzulu - and I see you agree.

      Press - 2012-04-12 16:01

      Could we have a picture of the mighty chief Tshwane together with an explanation why this individual unifies all South Africans and why he is regarded as worthy to carry the name of our capital, please.

      bluzulu - 2012-04-12 18:09

      RSA should be called MSANZI in the future.

      bluzulu - 2012-04-12 20:11

      @ Press, Black cultures do not name everything after Warriors. Nature and Environmental criteria where utilized in most names. Lets use Tshwane as an example...."Tshwane" comes from the Setswana word "tshwana" meaning "black cow".

      Sanele - 2012-04-13 10:13

      But he's the founder of the city!!! Be a little more open-minded man come on. You think like a Zimbabwean, and not a South African.

  • Goggiedol - 2012-04-12 15:16

    its pointless changing the street names nobody is gonna them anyway its just a waste of money...

  • Phumi - 2012-04-12 15:25

    In a democratic country those who are in the majority get to rule. If FF++ have a problem with that then they should be regarded as enemies of democracy and nothing more. We do not need lengthy and expensive consultations on this issue what we need is a referendum. If the minorities are not happy they are free to campaing and win by more than two thirds at the polls then do whatever they like with this country. We cannot be held hostage by them and our constitution must not be used as tool to be a stumbling block to progress!

      bluzulu - 2012-04-12 15:27

      Why pander till June , Just call it Tshwane tomorrow.

      Karl - 2012-04-12 15:30

      They must remove all apartheit names...we dont need to honour those cruel leaders.

      Piet - 2012-04-12 15:31

      Yes change it! It is no longer Pretoria. It is a Filthy Zest pool! Viva Tswane!

      Mark - 2012-04-12 15:45

      Yes, Bluzulu and it will be as a myth like the fellow who wandered around these parts when he wasn't dodging Zulu raiding parties.

      bluzulu - 2012-04-12 18:07


      Irene - 2012-04-12 18:18

      Karl ~ And nor do we need to honour your 'struggle heroes'. Sies!

      Bless Boswell - 2012-04-13 13:47

      Phumi do you really see it as progress when the government does not look after its people and spends money on window dressing??

  • Jabu - 2012-04-12 15:53

    Botha once said, pretoria has been made with a white mind for a white man. Please change that white name

  • Mark - 2012-04-12 15:53

    I so often want to comment on News24 but hate this new FB authentication deal - can't believe the effort of posting anon. The ANC seems to totally miss the successful cases of naming/renaming. Why can't things operate like the former Eastern Boulevard in Cape Town - now Nelson Mandela Boulevard. If they (ANC) build/upgrade/contribute something new then - and here is a really novel idea - they get to name it. If, like the Cape Town airport, a name is particularly bad then it's more incentive to upgrade and say: this new shiny, sparkly bit is: [Insert AND name here] and that old crappy bit is still called whatever. And here is the really great bit - if they do a good job people will be happy to forget the old names. ye, ye, I know, wishful thinking

  • basie.pretorius - 2012-04-12 15:55

    There are so many comments here that reflects the stupidity of the writers and people who dont know their ass from trheir elbow when it comes to history Pretorius came from the south into a barren landnand did something to DEVELOP this land whatever it took but the fools in power did F**kall to develop anything apart from stealing and looting and murdering innocent people

  • WessBergg - 2012-04-12 15:55

    Only when you take all of the street children of South Africa off the street, can we talk name changes, because these kids don't care which street they are freezing to death on.

  • paballo.ditshego - 2012-04-12 16:01

    The name will change to Tshwane and that is it. Truth of the matter that all that you see today and claim to be your afrikaner heritage was built using cheap african labour, the workers who died underground in the mines of Joburg leaving families destitute and without father figures, and yet you people are going on about your lives without any conscience, only thing you know to do is complain and post racist comments on this forum at the comfort of your beautiful homes which are the fruits of a system that marginalised and oppressed the majority in their own land. Viva Tshwane Viva. Go to hell FF .

  • paballo.ditshego - 2012-04-12 16:01

    The name will change to Tshwane and that is it. Truth of the matter that all that you see today and claim to be your afrikaner heritage was built using cheap african labour, the workers who died underground in the mines of Joburg leaving families destitute and without father figures, and yet you people are going on about your lives without any conscience, only thing you know to do is complain and post racist comments on this forum at the comfort of your beautiful homes which are the fruits of a system that marginalised and oppressed the majority in their own land. Viva Tshwane Viva. Go to hell FF .

      Mark - 2012-04-12 16:15

      Paballo. Oh you mean like the Pyramids?

      sabongam - 2012-04-12 16:24

      @ Paballo - I couldn't have said it better myself. And all those ignorant racist bigots know it's the truth...And the truth does hurt that's why you'll get is insults and complaints about how bad the government is... Show me one country that has a perfect government. Even the USA whom everyone(except the Islamic countries) praises also has its share of problems. Its the Scandanavian countries which seem much better off but you can't really compare SA with Sweden or Denmark now can you?

      Wim - 2012-04-12 18:10

      You live in a dream world. The Castle in Cape Town is the oldest building in the country. Did blacks build that? Look north of the border and show one structure build by your kind. But then, you are a nation of consumers, not builders. Better get your begging bowl ready for he white mans food aid. The time is near.

      Wim - 2012-04-12 18:16

      @sabongam. No, SA can't be compared to Scandinavia because the SA built up by the kin of the Scandinavians was overrun by blacks. That is why SA is becoming more like an open sewer every day. But your kind like it that way, don't you?

      bluzulu - 2012-04-12 18:18

      Ups to you Paballo. Well written mate.

  • Scouter - 2012-04-12 16:25

    Let it be known as Tshwane since it no longer resembles the old Pretoria which was clean, pretty and extremely efficient. Rather keep Pretoria associated with everything that the ANC is not. They can take the name away but they can't steal the memory.

      chris.debeer1 - 2012-04-12 18:23

      Agree 100% went to Hatfield after 20 years the other day what a shock!!!! Grapevine no more nothing left PLEASE Change the name to represent the NEW AZANIA!

      siyadyosiba - 2012-04-12 20:01

      @scouter, i can feel your pain, sorry bro. Change brings changes.

      Bless Boswell - 2012-04-13 13:13

      That is so true - and it's true of most instances where there have been name changes. Have you been to the Helen Joseph hospital lately? It's a disgrace. The Charlotte Maxeke hospital too, is a disgrace. I don't think Chris Hani would feel very honoured to have Bara named after him - so perhaps we should not fight the name changes so hard - if the government wants to squander even more funds on non- essential cosmetic puffery, let them. It's not going to improve the lot of the poor, it's not going to obliterate the past and its definitely not going to win them any more seats in the next election.

  • KReddy - 2012-04-12 17:53

    There are due processes that need to be followed to change names, not because a political party wants to. Then again, I forget that most ppl of a particular party that work in offices of power and decision making dance to one tune and cannot think for themselves unless its for some backdoor money making.

  • Jacques - 2012-04-12 18:06

    Gve your opinion about Pretoria's name change at and see who agrees with you!

      siyadyosiba - 2012-04-12 20:04

      Went there, it looks like people want this name change. Thanks for the referal, my support for name change is even stronger.

      Akili - 2012-04-13 14:06

      @siyadyosiba, not only Pretoria should change, all these towns with white apartheid SA names should be changed to a more meaningful Black African names.

  • Sanele - 2012-04-13 09:52

    I really dont understand why they are changing the name of such a beautiful city, more so to 'Tshwane'. This name, in my opionion, is meaningless as Pretoria is a multi-cultural city. Tshwana people are not the only ones who stay in Pretoria, hence, the name to me has no real significant meaning. Anyway, why dont they change the name of all the cities in the country since they are so keen on change. Its a pity the ANC wants to change everything in this country except for crime and poverty. Why dont they pay more attention to changing the crime and poverty situation, the real problems in this country. I honestly think this name change is a waste of time and money, and it adds no value to our country. I am really disappointed.

      Akili - 2012-04-13 14:00

      Sanele hamba esikoleni, you sound like you need more education to understand the reason behind name changes.

      Bless Boswell - 2012-04-14 09:11

      Akile: answer this question - for example - you are hungry and don't have a job - you used to work for a medical supply company in Pretoria. This company won a tender to supply gauteng hospitals with medical equipment. The government did not pay your company's accounts, and so the business closed and you lost your job. Now, that same government want to change the street names in Pretoria, using money that could be used to feed you and your family - how do you feel about that? Are changes to the street names going to put food in your and your kids tummies and keep you warm? These comments about changing street names have not been made to anger you, but to point out how senseless it is at this time. We are in the middle of a very severe recession. Petrol is at an all time high - pockets are empty. Would you rather have new street names or a full tummy?

  • Sanele - 2012-04-13 09:55

    I really dont understand why they are changing the name of such a beautiful city, more so to 'Tshwane'. This name, in my opionion, is meaningless as Pretoria is a multi-cultural city. Tshwana people are not the only ones who stay in Pretoria, hence, the name to me has no real significant meaning. Anyway, why dont they change the name of all the cities in the country since they are so keen on change. Its a pity the ANC wants to change everything in this country except for crime and poverty. Why dont they pay more attention to changing the crime and poverty situation, the real problems in this country. I honestly think this name change is a waste of time and money, and it adds no value to our country. I am really disappointed.

  • Bless Boswell - 2012-04-13 13:05

    So you guys want to change the names even though right now there are jobless and hungry people who may have to resort to violence just to survive? my opinion of you has just plummeted. Does a name change provide a full belly and warmth? Think of the less fortunate before you think of your ideals. Perhaps those that are pushing the hardest have the most to gain financially from the name changes?

      Akili - 2012-04-13 14:16

      That joblessness and impoverishment was designed by the same people who named these cities and towns. No matter how you want to cote it, apartheid is responsible for all the suffering experienced by black people today. If you look on the SA map on google, you will think SA is somewhere in Europe and the language spoken is only Afrikaans.

      Bless Boswell - 2012-04-13 14:51

      You're blaming everything on the previous government? Ok then that means that the ANC have been totally unable to rectify the problems caused by the previous monster government. The punitive BEE measures the RFP levies etc etc, have done nothing to alleviate the problems. The current government has admitted its levels of corruption and incompetence - and 18 years later that is still the fault of the former government? That's just a cop out. We all know the current government is incompetent and too arrogant to see the error of their ways. That they blame their failure to govern effectively is entirely their problem and their fault. They do not put the people first - so they have betrayed their people - and the masses are too brainwashed to know better.

  • Bless Boswell - 2012-04-13 15:09

    By the way Paballo, have you given any thought to the fact that not all whites are afrikaners? A great many are not. A great many speak very little Afrikaans. A great many do not like Afrikaners? Why are we all painted with the same brush? Must we believe all blacks to be the same ( though we know they are not) many black people barely tolerate other blacks from different tribes. So why not cut the white people some slack? We are not all wealthy, well educated and live in fabulous houses and own big expensive cars. Some of us are battling, and have always battled. I would not want it any different.

      Bless Boswell - 2012-04-14 09:00

      No Tienie, not at all - what I was trying to establish is whether black people see all whites as being the same. The British did harsh things to the Afrikaners and the blacks. The Afrikaners in turn did some harsh things to the Brits and the blacks and the blacks did harsh thinks to the Afrikaners and the Brits. We as white people know the differences between us, but do black people? There are still today Afrikaners who do not like the Brits and vice versa. But to answer your question more directly, I do not think the blacks will care whether the white people they are going to kill come from holland, England, France, Germany or Russia - white is white and as such is the hated enemy. The fact that the individual had nothing to do with apartheid is of no consequence to them.

  • Gieljam - 2012-04-13 19:26

    As an ex electrician I have a good idea of what transforming is . a Transformer should be at least 98% effective , if possible even better to be really useful for its purpose other wise it costs you money in losses .The saving on the one sided and undemocratic transforming of artifacts or well known things just for the sake of saying we are now in charge is around 0% and could only be described as miss forming or ill informing or diss informing you choose .it can't enrich the poor and only gives some back hander more money, which constitutes a disaster given that a lot of money is wasted at the expense of all. Only trying to impress who ever and doing the poor ( and the true tax payers irrespective of their back ground ) even more harm. There was not one brick on another what to say a building when the people you are trying to dissown came here to built up this country to a level found no where in Africa.

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