Fugitive couple found in bullet-riddled room

2011-01-20 23:16

Sutherland - Two stun grenades exploded, and somewhere in the house a woman screamed something incomprehensible before shots rang out in the Roggeveld mountains near Sutherland on Thursday.

Moments later, the bodies of a man and a woman were found in a deserted house on the farm Hardie, about 25km outside Sutherland.

The police would not confirm whether the bodies are those of the fugitive French couple Phillippe Meniére, 60 and Agnes Jeanne Jardel, 55, but Lieutenant Colonel Hendrik Swart did say the search for the couple has been called off.

This search came to a bloody end on Thursday - after six days - but it'll probably take much longer for police to piece the whole picture together.

The two bodies were only removed from the house where they died after 20:00. Police did not wait for ballistics experts before removing the bodies, Swart said.

Initially Swart said the couple’s bodies couldn’t be removed before explosives experts from Springbok had studied the scene.

It is unlikely that the experts were at the scene before the bodies were removed.

The experts were called because of the amount of ammunition found at the scene and the possibility of the bodies being booby-trapped.

A police helicopter equipped with infrared night vision technology spotted movement around a house on the farm on Wednesday night.

On the run

The house is about 500m from the one where Meniére and Jardel have lived for the past 12 years and where they shot Student Constable Jacob Boleme, 27, killing him, and injured his colleague, Warrant Officer Glenwall du Toit, 42, last Friday.

The two have since been on the run, with an integrated police force of 85 officials, a helicopter and a plane hot on their heels.

The police identified the house as a possible hiding place. They also believed the couple had not left the 3 000ha farm.

A neighbouring farmer went to the house on Thursday morning, completely unaware of the drama which would unfold. The house is usually only used at weekends, and Jardel and Meniére probably knew this, Swart said.

The farmer saw something wasn’t quite right and quickly left the area.

About ten police officials showed up shortly after that – after 11:00 – to investigate.

They raided the house armed with R5 assault rifles and .9mm pistols.

Two stun grenades were fired after which a woman apparently screamed something incomprehensible and then shots rang out. Afterwards the bodies of a man and a woman fitting the couple's description were found.

They had bullet wounds and were in what was presumably the kitchen.

Several firearms - rifles and pistols - and a large quantity of ammunition were found in the house. Shells were scattered everywhere and the walls were pockmarked with bullet holes.

Search called off

Swart would not confirm on Thursday afternoon whether it was, indeed, the French couple, since they haven't been formally identified.

He did say the search for the two has been called off.

He also couldn’t say whether the two had committed suicide or whether the police had killed them.

It is unclear which side fired first.

Swart said these details are part of the investigation, which could take days. Ballistics tests will also have to be done to determine whose bullets killed the two.

The police are still figuring out exactly what happened last Friday. The owner of the farm, Gerhardus du Plessis, informed the police on the previous night that Meniére and Jardel may be in possession of  illegal firearms.

A warrant was obtained and the next day four police officials went to the house along with Du Plessis' sons, Jaen en Cobus.

Liziwe Mtshinga, the Northern Cape deputy provincial commissioner, said on Thursday the events are being investigated internally. She wasn't able to answer any questions such as how many police officials were armed and whether they were wearing bulletproof vests or not.

On Thursday afternoon Swart said they're struggling to trace the couple's family in France.

The police have not yet been able to confirm whether the two French citizens were members of the cult Ramtha's School of Enlightenment, as is alleged.

Swart was, however, able to confirm that Meniére had qualified as a medical doctor in France and that he worked previously at two Johannesburg hospitals.

  • GT - 2011-01-20 23:27

    Special Task Force 2 - Asterix Not a good day for anyone and condolences to the murdered policeman's family

      Howzitekse - 2011-01-21 03:02

      The whole thing is tragic. Some people are quick to resort to violence, and it has cost the life of a man who was just doing his job, and now, apparenty theirs as well.

      Lauren - 2011-01-21 08:48

      Yeah, I hate that the policeman had to die. They chose to live that strange life and a young man had to pay the ultimate price for their dodgy decisions. Life is a strange.

  • Mark - 2011-01-20 23:28

    I hope it turns out that this was done fairly, properly and justifiably. Ultimate respect must go to those guys at the front risking their lives to protect ours! Well done SAPS

  • Mr D - 2011-01-21 00:13

    Mmmm not bad.... now the cps can take on the drug lords but then again the drug lord are not 55 and 60yro ppl...

      BigPig69 - 2011-01-21 06:07

      You are so brave and all knowing, whty do you not join and do it for them? Oh wait your only brave sitting on the sideline.....

      Susannomore - 2011-01-21 07:32

      Can you not just give praise where it is due? Good on the SAPS. Don't listen to negative comments such as this...

      gmck21 - 2011-01-21 07:44

      ASS. It doesnt matter if they are 50 60 or 20 years old. THEY can still fire a gun! Well done SAPF

      thehairevent - 2011-01-21 07:51


      word-of-mout - 2011-01-21 08:30

      I wouldnt be too sure if I were you. These guys it shows they are experts. For all you know, they put two bodies/ people in the house and escaped. Bonnie and Clyde I say

      IceMan - 2011-01-21 08:39

      they dont take on the drug lords caus they being paid an incentive bonus by them to give out more parking tickets and leave them alone ;)

  • skollie - 2011-01-21 01:07

    Good for SAPS. Blow the scum to hell and gone.

      Para-gun - 2011-01-21 08:18

      Good Going guys this is exactly what SAPS is about. Now hunt down the other bastards that run around the country side killing farmer folk. You have our support.

  • skollie - 2011-01-21 01:07

    Good for SAPS. Blow the scum to hell and gone.

  • veld66 - 2011-01-21 01:10

    South African Special Task Force........considered the world s best special operations force> I wish the rest of the force was the same, but....well we don t need people who contribute to crime we hve enough already

      BigPig69 - 2011-01-21 06:05

      Used to matey.... Wake up and smell the roses

      f035monster - 2011-01-21 07:05

      Denial is not just a river in Egypt...

      Vernon - 2011-01-21 07:52

      One word'recces'nuff said.

      swimma - 2011-01-21 08:23

      @BigPig69 They are still considered amongst the best. Their level of training hasn't diminished over the years. Was chatting to an old ballie who left the police about a year or three back (ex koevoet, task force, did VIP etc). I made the same comment, that they probably have gone a bit soft. He reckons the task force guys are just as tough now as they were 20 years back. Our special operations units (parabats, special forces, task force) are trained to the same high levels as they always were. As for the rest of our armed forces, yes, I agree, they have gone very soft. Our armed forces are not what they used to be.

      pointblankza - 2011-01-21 08:56

      @BigPig69, I have friends who are in Special Task Force and let me assure you they are still one of the most effective units in the world.. Their training is superior, they often travel to the UK and US to go on special combat training, very harsh training. Our Special Task Force is not a unit you would like to mess with.

      The Patriot - 2011-01-21 11:01

      I'm sure the rest of the worlds SPEC Forces might argue who's best, however our boys are good without question.

      Martin - 2011-01-21 17:02

      TOTAL RUBBISH!! There is an annual special forces competition and the "Takies" fared pretty bad compared to the British SAS, German GSG9, US Delta Force etc. I actually spoke to a member of GSG9 in Germany where the competition was held a couple of years ago and he rates as, as one of the worst. Russian Spetsnaz were also rubbish due to operatives only used to follow communist orders and not thinking on there feet like athletic & intelligent Delta Force operatives. Maybe our SASTF were better on the old days but we are no match for the best of the rest!

  • Werner - 2011-01-21 02:44

    It's like an SABC 1 movie :D

  • RobertKay - 2011-01-21 04:48

    Good riddance. Cop killers deserve to be annihilated. No lengthy court cases, no long jail sentences, no expense to the State. Glad no one else was killed apart from the couple.

      AmperGatvol - 2011-01-21 07:54

      Cop killers, Farmer killers, rapists, druglords and pimps should all enjoy this kind of prompt ''police attention'', if you ask me. For what its worth, well done SAPS. Now take this commitment further and get the rubbish out of our country.

  • Peter - 2011-01-21 05:15

    Seems like a hammer was used to kill a fly( or two of them).Yes, they killed a policeman and shot another, but is a policeman's life worth more than any other civilian? Why dont they go to this amount of trouble when farmers are killed?Or elderly folk on smallholdings?

      BigPig69 - 2011-01-21 06:14

      Peter - You are such an idiot. How much do you know about where the task force is deployed? You think they sit on their arses waiting only for cops to be killed? Get a life. If you do not know what you are talking about, Shut Up!!

      f035monster - 2011-01-21 07:18

      @BigPig - You are just that. Peter is 100% correct. They hunted rabits with a .600 Overkill.

      GT - 2011-01-21 07:47

      Nonsense - 2 people armed in a rural area who have already killed a cop are not old hippies, they are killers on the run. STF can infiltrate observer, snipe and assault.... perfect for this operation. The regular cops had already been klapped.

      brianR - 2011-01-21 07:50

      Me thinks if the French couple were from Nigeria, there would have been alot more praise for the SAPS from some of the neighsayers... Job well done, SAPS

      Kyle_logan - 2011-01-21 08:21

      @Peter, remeber there are very few cops compared to civilians, if ever criminal got the idea that killing a cop would be easy and that they would get away with it we would have a lot less cops. They have to show that killing cops will no be tolerated.

      Kyle_logan - 2011-01-21 08:27

      @f035monster - I'd like to see you have to enter a room where two people are barricaded and armed and known killers.... I would love to watch you shit yourself going in.

      bikebeater - 2011-01-21 08:52

      Yes, excessive force had been used. He was linked to the foreign legion, as a DOCTOR, NOT A SOLDIER.

      pointblankza - 2011-01-21 09:10

      Peter, actually they do. If the police believe the criminals are in the area they do deploy helicopters and task force members. The problem lies in that in the majority of farm attacks the attacks are only "stumbled" upon the following day when a family member or farm worker arrives at the farm house or small holding. A basic understanding Peter, not a rambling ignoramus. I was personally involved in hunting the killers of my friend on his farm in Ixopo, there was a massive police contingent with planes and helicopters as well as the SADF in that area. Stupid comments by stupid people... argh! Please do not breed.

      GetitRight - 2011-01-21 09:11

      Well done to SAPS. Shoot a policeman doing his job.... Feel the might of THE FORCE! NO MERCY! Live by the gun die by the gun. You use small firepower we come with CANNONS. Listen up ye whingers with revolutionary talk and supremacist views.

      drowninja - 2011-01-21 10:34

      @bikebeater, do you know that he never had any military trainign? What about terrorist training or the taxi driver militant training? maybe i should coose the mafia school, or the the bank robbers? Look these people had an asernal had shot 2 cops, one was white and i have never heard of a case where 1 in farm attackers is white. The farm owner, is seems was scared enought not to take on them. And they did not call for the pollice after if they suspected farm attacks! if you ask me, these look like secret agents "Mr & Mrs Smith". Took 6 days as you die from booby traps if you rush out, or a sniper. Night gives cops advantage coz the opponent is not likely to have night vision equip and cops can cleansly see them as the sitting duck way. better a ditting duck than a standing goose. lol. Take time to check everything out as there may have been ambush or hostages in the den, you morons!!

      Petronella du Toit - 2011-01-21 11:39

      Kyle, everything you know about this couple are pure rumors. Nice publicity for us having tourist believe they can be gunned down without a trail. You don't even know if the farmer told the truth! Why on earth would a rent dispute be handled by the police? Did you see any court order evicting the couple from the property or giving the police power to remove them with force? We all morn the police being killed here, fact is that only this couple could shed some light on why this happened!

      pointblankza - 2011-01-21 11:52

      Petronella, where do I begin? THe police obtained a search warrant because the farmer saw that they had suspected illegal firearms. The police arrived on site, seized various suspected firearms, the nutjob opens fire on police and kills on and shoots the other in the back. THey then shoot out the tires of the police van and grab the guns and run.. I mean, have you been asleep for 100 years? By the way apartheid is dead and there is a black dude in charge... welcome back.

      Kyle_logan - 2011-01-21 12:14

      @Petronella du Toit to add to what pointblankza said, they had infrared camera on the site in question the day before and I persume before and during the raid. IE cops where using the technology at their deisposal in order to confirm these where the people they where looking for. I'm sure there is alot more that they did before entering that has not been included in this report. Since they where spotted wednesday night and police raided on thursday it's safe to say more was done to verifie who was inside before they raided.... seriously people it's not that hard to fill in the gaps if you think about logically... I suppose having knowlage of police tactics alos helps but a quick search of the internet can fill you in if you need.

      brianR - 2011-01-21 13:39

      oh, and Petronella... It's TRIAL... The police were on their TRAIL, to get them to TRIAL...

      Petronella du Toit - 2011-01-21 14:21

      @Pointblank, maybe you are right but please I can not be sober and think of any another crimminal in his right mind who refuse rent when hiding illegal firearms and on top of it go hide around the corner in a place where more evidence can be found? How many crimminal cases can be traced back to these arms? What happened to police dogs? etc..

      Petronella du Toit - 2011-01-21 14:24

      @BrainR - please forgive my spelling as I forgive your name, I am sure you know what I say regardless.

      nhla.prv - 2011-01-24 07:50

      I am so glad they got blown away ! One never knows what they were breeding seeing that they were almost pensioners..Good riddance .Well done SAPS.Condolences to the family of the murdered cop

  • Peter - 2011-01-21 05:15

    Seems like a hammer was used to kill a fly( or two of them).Yes, they killed a policeman and shot another, but is a policeman's life worth more than any other civilian? Why dont they go to this amount of trouble when farmers are killed?Or elderly folk on smallholdings?

      tse-tse fly - 2011-01-21 06:13

      I hope the killed a correct fly

      pointblankza - 2011-01-21 09:12

      Peter, actually they do. If the police believe the criminals are in the area they do deploy helicopters and task force members. The problem lies in that in the majority of farm attacks the attacks are only "stumbled" upon the following day when a family member or farm worker arrives at the farm house or small holding. A basic understanding Peter, not a rambling ignoramus. I was personally involved in hunting the killers of my friend on his farm in Ixopo, there was a massive police contingent with planes and helicopters as well as the SADF in that area. Stupid comments by stupid people... argh! Please do not breed.

      masterjane007 - 2011-01-21 09:35

      For once the police do a damn good job and all you can do is moan. God Himself wil descent upon earth and still you will find something to moan about, won't you? Yes, more work like this need to be done but maybe we can give the police the credit they deserve and then they will feel up to the task. You'll be surprised at how kind words can make people work harder.

      The Patriot - 2011-01-21 11:15

      Farm killings are a different ballgame. The killers of farmers have no known address, identity etc. Not correct to compare this incident to farm attacks. Constructive criticism is okay but in context.

  • kevin.vandyk - 2011-01-21 05:33

    There are many questions to be answered here. How can 2 citizens of another country be living in SA and not be contributing in anyway. Were they here legally. There is something suspicious about this farmer and his family who seem to be well connected to this couple for many years before all of a sudden turning them to the police and sending some poor constable in to face potential cult maniacs. They have nothing, so have they been living for free. More to this story.

      Picasso - 2011-01-21 07:18

      If he worked at two Jhb hospitals they must have been here legally.

      drowninja - 2011-01-21 07:51

      If you ask me, using my CIA movies extrapolation, it my be that the guys were part of a secret agent contact cell. One of them had a medics credential and that automatically lowers any suspicion of a potential treath. Look at it this way, if you had K hecters of land and an elderly couple who are likely not geting SA state grant and have been living and payin their rent for the past 12 years and are now retired. i would not have such people pay rent in my farm!!! Maybe the couple were providing service in other ways we do not know. What matters is that the guy had guts to report these people, braved thier possible weapons supplier or the actual owner who may be a too poweful foreign death squad, drug cartel, assasins supplier or terrorist group!!! So far I have not heard that the couple were operatin on their own and not likely. So these may have been deep agents or controllers of the agents!!!

      kevin.vandyk - 2011-01-21 09:24

      picasso, wasn't aware he had worked here. missed that article. however, can't say i would be happy with a couple of nutters running around my farm and my children openly interacting with them.

      Wonderboy - 2011-01-21 10:13

      They also had SA citizenship. The farmer wanted the house back for his son and they would not leave. That is what started the whole thing.

      pointblankza - 2011-01-21 12:11

      No Wonderboy, they never paid the rent and were being evicted. I hardly think shooting dead a cop and another one in the back was as a result of a farmer wanting them out..

      Picasso - 2011-01-21 13:42

      Lol, Kevin it is at the bottom of the article ;-) "Swart was, however, able to confirm that Meniére had qualified as a medical doctor in France and that he worked previously at two Johannesburg hospitals."

  • Alaska13 - 2011-01-21 05:48

    Not only had they killed one policeman and injured another, they lived surrounded by an arsenal of weaponry and ammunition. Yes of course we would like to see the same kind of vigour used against common criminals but these guys were not your average criminals. Their age makes no difference to their ability to accumulate and apparently utilise this stuff and if they wanted to be treated like elderly hippies, they should have behaved like elderly hippies. Remember this arsenal with the 'hippies' in charge is very close to the SA Astronomical Observatory and also SALT, the largest optical telescope in the southern hemisphere which has been built by several different countries.

      Janine - 2011-01-21 07:00

      Well said.

      brinkcobus - 2011-01-21 07:42

      Alaska, where did you find the list of weapons in their arsenal? I could not find any reference to specific weapons other than a hunting rifle. If that constitutes an arsenal, which you see as a threat to SALT, then you should still be very worried. Most farmers in the Karoo own a number of firearms. Does it mean you would like them branded and their "arsenal" confiscated too?

      Susannomore - 2011-01-21 07:42

      Too many factors for some people to consider. Reading all these facts together also boggles the brain and then they have no justifcation for blaming the police for killing the killers. Good point about the telescope!

      IceBlaster - 2011-01-21 08:28

      @Brinkcobus. "Several firearms - rifles and pistols - and a large quantity of ammunition were found in the house." and Alaska13 didn't make any reference to specific weapons like you say.

      masterjane007 - 2011-01-21 09:44

      Cobus Brink, if you actually followed this story over the last week, you would have read the reports of what the police found in the house the frogs were staying. Is it necessary for you to get agressive and argumentative when you do not know the facts? Go read all the previous news reports and you will see what a little arsenal these loonies had built themselves. Please do not compare loony frogs with innocent, hard-working Karoo farmers! There is one hell of a difference between murderous crazy people and innocent farmers! You seem like you were part of their cult.

      Wonderboy - 2011-01-21 10:17

      brinkcobus has a point, rifles and pistols and thousands of rounds of ammunition is not a threat to the telescope. Half the arsenal was collected from the police who came to investigate.

      pointblankza - 2011-01-21 12:42

      Wonderboy, tell that to the people who were killed on a plane hijack by terrorists armed with nail scissors...

  • Olavin - 2011-01-21 05:49

    Sounds like a setup.

  • boomboomdoom - 2011-01-21 05:59

    A whole task force with tons of arms & ammo to take out 2 eldery people. Well done policeforce, you are heroes.

      Mikemcc - 2011-01-21 09:29

      So does a gun prove to be less lethal because it is in the hands of a proven ELDERLY killer? The cops did what they had to.

      pointblankza - 2011-01-21 12:12

      Ja boomboomdoom, 2 cop killers with rifles and handguns on the run.... good riddance I say.

  • Hermann - 2011-01-21 06:14

    Well done boyz by taking out the only people in a very flat area of 3000ha. Mr Cele will be very proud of you.Now hit those murderers in the urban areas.

      brianR - 2011-01-21 08:13

      Earth isnt flat, Hermann... I think that proved that years ago

      Spyker - 2011-01-21 11:06

      brianR - but his head is...

      brianR - 2011-01-21 13:42

      i forgot that makes everything look flat

      Hermann - 2011-01-21 18:16

      Ever been to Sutherland ? Why dont you google the area,if you dont know how,get someone to help. Flat head, eish, it is a burden....gotta carry pisspots like yourself on my head through a flat Sutherland landscape as I need my hands to prevent me from tripping over those huge boulders and gagga comments ! Have a lekka weekend.

  • Nico - 2011-01-21 06:32

    85 Officials and a plane and a helicopter....

      Lekabisto - 2011-01-21 08:04

      I thought I was the only one that noticed that, I mean you would swear they were going after a cyborg super spy or James Bond.......LOL

      Johnny - 2011-01-21 08:16

      ...the whole SA Army and Police forces involved...?? ....He he he he he he ...!!!!

      drowninja - 2011-01-21 08:20

      lol. Nico and herman, does it not look like these were "Mr& Mrs Smiths"? I mean he had Kungfu or Samurai/Ninja training, Asernal of weapons and they Shot a young cop who went there with fore knowledge of possible elegal fire arms and his companion, the farm owner was scared to evict them and had to call the SA death squard to remove the guys!!! Let me tell you, the guys who raided the farm are likely quasi police quasi inteligence division in the army cos i know only they are sent for a kill. And you have to know that it kills to under estimate!!! Learn from the dead cop and the one who got shor. Over do it you only loose the Tax payers money under do, you loose some of your squad and tax payers money

  • coolwaynie - 2011-01-21 06:33

    This must have cost the South African taxpayers a few millon Rant. The Special Task Force for two old farts? This could have been easily handled by the Intervention Unit (former Reaction Unit). Embarrassing.

      Will99 - 2011-01-21 07:01

      Like you would have taken care of them on your own...

      gemini76 - 2011-01-21 07:43

      Will99 you an idiot!!!

      Johnny - 2011-01-21 08:19

      ...Chuck Norris or Rambo would have done a better job....!! .....He he he he he..!! ....Took the Army and Police force 6 days to caught them...???

      jeronimo - 2011-01-21 08:57

      @coolwaynie. I'm 57 years old. Come and call me an old fart to my face. I'll dismantle you.

      coolwaynie - 2011-01-21 10:19

      jeronimo my good lady...I do not strike women. Are you in Durban? We could meet up and discuss this. You are very old hey.

      pointblankza - 2011-01-21 12:14

      Is this the metally challenged section?

  • Dan - 2011-01-21 06:35

    Police searching or hunting them down for 6 days. The couple hiding in a house a mere 500m from the house they were staying in. Don't you find it strange? Want to tell me the police never considered looking 500m from the initial crime scene? Weird story and a very weird couple. I think will see more of these sick end-of-the-world idiots doing even more stupid things over the next 2 years. After that, I don't know what they will believe in next. Real pity that adults can be brainwashed so easily. These cults are worse than the NG Kerk.

      Picasso - 2011-01-21 07:21

      After 2012 the dooms sayers will acknowledge that they've read the codes wrong, it is actually 2021!

      AmperGatvol - 2011-01-21 08:04

      Beats me...why go on a killing spree when you believe that the world is coming to an end in 2012? I'm offcourse referring to the doomsday cults. Just ride the year out, fools, everyone's gonna be dead anyway. Crazy

      taf.jizz - 2011-01-21 13:09

      Dan you prove what i always say. The zombies (oops!! meant masses) complain of gutter journalism but gobble this poo poo without blinking. How on earth could they have missed a hideout so close for 6 days with all the fire power at their disposal. Me thinks they were shitting in their pants. Explains why the overKILL.

  • Stephen - 2011-01-21 06:43

    Bon Voyage.............

  • Will99 - 2011-01-21 07:00

    Well done!!!

  • adendorff.johan - 2011-01-21 07:02

    The amount of resources they used seems excessive, but hopefully this will deter others to do the same. I appreciate the SAPS attitude these days, obviously there are still a lot of officers with the wrong one, but 5 years back I did not see anything good in the force. I think we need to give them support, if we as the honest public don't do this the crime in this country will only get worse unfortunately.

  • Ixian - 2011-01-21 07:03

    You white, whiny men. All you can do is be negative. I am white man and ashamed by your continual negativity and racisism. Change starts with you. You think the arsehole NATS that ran this country were not corrupt themselves? Making laws that made black people second and third class citizens? Your forefathers are part of the reason why this country is in the state it is in. So get a life and make a contribution to the benefit of the country and stop acting like a whiny old white racist.

      landyzel - 2011-01-21 07:22

      fair enough, but that was almost 20 years ago!!! how long should we suffer for something that our forefathers did? don't you think it's a bit rediculous that we, and maybe YOUR children will still suffer under these circumstances? what are you going to do if your daughter gets raped, or your parent murdered, and nothing gets done about it?

      Ixian - 2011-01-21 07:36

      It's going to take a lot longer than twenty years to sort out the crap the NATS did. Black kids that suffered under bantu education are in their 30's and 40's and mostly unemployable in decent jobs. So when you have a hungry family at home and you can't feed them what do you do? And that is where most of the crime comes from in this country.

      landyzel - 2011-01-21 07:55

      I agree, but the point is, the police did a good job with these people, why don't they do the same for the rest of the people that live in this country? why does a police officer have to die, before action is taken? The problem is, the crime is at this point because nothing is done about it. If the police can handle other people, that does crime in our country, the same way they did these two French people, then we won't have so much crime!

      Big Apple - 2011-01-21 08:33

      Ixian ... seems like you had a dream about this response and stick it into the first article you opened today ... let wait and see what you dream about tomorrow

      Mudskipper - 2011-01-21 08:40

      A simplistic analysis. As if integration back then would have been easier! Probably a lot more complicated. Afrikaners were reacting to what they had experienced at the hands of the British. As countries (and their institutions go), South Africa was relatively new and still in a process of reconciliation. But of course you're a genius and had you been there, you would have put everything right and paid for everyone's education. What a charitable and nice guy!

      Sailor - 2011-01-21 08:48

      Right on Ixian. Landyzel, you are either under 5 years of age or plain stupid. From 1652, Blacks have been oppressed and molded into what they are today. Your 20 years talks to your narrow minded perspective that is shared by many of your colour. It is going to take a number of generations to sort out the mess your forefathers created. And remember, most of the things you complain about have always been there but since they were not benefiting Blacks, it was quite right to have them in place eg affirmative action. One word - Hypocrites!!!!

      landyzel - 2011-01-21 10:24

      you know what Sailor, first of all, I'm not saying that what happened to your forefathers years ago was right! all I'm saying is that people should pay for their crime, suffer the consequenses!!! whether you are pink, blue, black, green or white... it does not matter!!! everybody is locked in their homes at night, terrified that they might be murdered, why, because nothing is done about it when it happens!!! I was only trying to say that this type of action should be repeated, and counted for every single person in SA, because currently it's not!!! by the way, the way this country is today, is not solving the appartheid years, we are suppose to live as one nation. What's this my colour, your colour bull? If you want to see things set straight in this country, why don't you start looking at other coloured people as a part of your nation? Please don't insult my intelligence, if you can't even understand what my message is about!

      Wonderboy - 2011-01-21 10:27

      What we all seem to forget is that the majority of black kids were educated in the homelands under their own governments with financial support given by the previous South African government. If the education there was bad it was only because it was self inflicted. I also agree that the country is in this state because of our white forefathers, Economically stronger than Egypt, Tunisia, Algeria, Libya and Morocco all put together.

      Petronella du Toit - 2011-01-21 10:53

      Time to wake up Ixian, the rest of Africa did not have Apartheid yet the situation is 1000 times worse than here. It's estimated that during the last 100 years, more that 30 million Congolese were killed due to conflict mines - We are the only country able to host and feed Africa's refugees today. Why do you think that is? Which country in the WORLD was ever capable of hosting at least 6 million UNDOCUMENTED refugees and another 5 million registered! Crime in our country is not the doing of the poor local black created by Apartheid, but rather the poor created by bad African leadership in total. We see 47,000 murders anually in this country today which exclude those dying from starvation, ill treatment, road accidents and other preventable situations. Compare that to the turbulent strife of the apartheid years of warfare, conflict, terrorism, riots and repression when a 7000 murder rate caused the world to freak out! How many Black Leaders in African countries were not sometime during their lives trained'/ educated / Crowned in foreign countries ? And how many of them can show digestable fruits today? Why the ANC slogan - first liberation then eduction during Apartheids years? Will you get in a taxi with no capable driver, or into an airplain with no capable pilot?

      4daluvofSA - 2011-01-21 14:16

      @landyzel, where have you people been leaving? Now all of a sudden people are complaining about leaving in locked homes with fences? I was raised in a locked home, and never wondered the streets at knight especially the dangerous places. DO you want to sleep with the windows and dorrs opened at night? is that how it was 20 years ago? If that was the case than damn you guys were leaving the good life, no wonder everyone is complaining now.

      Sailor - 2011-01-21 16:01

      Landzel - i do not have a problem with your colour, just your patronising comments. If you want one nation then you have to acknowledge the wrongs of the past and be part of the solution if not the actual solution. Stop talking down the country as if misgovernance started when the ANC took over. If you belong in SA body and soul, then start behaving like a patriotic South African who sees beyond colour and shares the blame of what is going wrong.

      Thabz - 2011-01-21 16:03

      Axian and all, please tell me what race has to do with this particular story, y'all are dumb asses!!!!!!

      Sailor - 2011-01-21 16:09

      Thabz- read all the comments and you will probably understand

  • sakkie - 2011-01-21 07:06

    High 5 to SAPS...! great job boy's, dont care how many it took to get them garlic lovers, job done ! Justice served....fairly I hope !

      Petronella du Toit - 2011-01-21 11:14

      Job done? Let see 1)executed without a trail? 2) rent dispute handled by the police and later special forces? 3)a couple illegal.. of which one employed by a hospital? 4)gunned down in a house not far from the one they fled? 5) this inspite of night vision, dogs, airfarce and other lethal weapon forces -- Nice to cover-up yes...cover-up for the reason why two cops were realy shot in which one lost his live.

      Kyle_logan - 2011-01-21 12:16

      rent dispute? police where called because of illegal weapons, and they had search warrants.....

      Petronella du Toit - 2011-01-21 13:13

      Kyle, I noticed the illegal arms story yes. Also the neat picture which causing more doubt. How many robberies and murders can be traced back to all these "out of the box" weapons? When did they manage to buy it or did they took it with them when fleeing on foot with police short on their hills? Did they perhaps also rent this second property to store illegal weapons from another farmer whom they did not pay? Dont you think its strange to have an illegal weapon arsenal and not paying rent? Any person in sober mind knows that the only thing that seems to have taken time here was not to track the couple but to frame them. To stage anything of this nature takes time, specially the kind of weaponary showcased here. Something is seriously wrong here!

      Kyle_logan - 2011-01-21 13:39

      yes there are unanswered questions, but I've seen stranger... you'd be amazed at what people do and think it's normal/right

      brianR - 2011-01-21 13:45

      Petronella, i think you should be taken in for questioning

      Petronella du Toit - 2011-01-21 14:55

      @brainR, do you try to threaten me perhaps? If so, let me give you some advice - I am not French, I am not a Medic, I am not from the Foreign Frensh Legion, but I sure am alerted with your remarks.

      brianR - 2011-01-21 15:18

      petro, no offence, but i see the whole story differently... yes, i do believe a trial would have been better, but if they barricaded themselves in a house they werent intending to surrender...

  • Christo - 2011-01-21 07:09

    How enlightened can you be if you are so afraid of dying and you believe the world is going to end in 2012 and you need a bunker and guns to survive. Must be some of JZ Knight's quiters hiding out on bunker hill.If I was so afraid of dying or the end of time I would rather join a Church. Au revoir,Mon Ami, Au revoir Ma amie, sorry about ow army,but you lived by the sword!

  • f035monster - 2011-01-21 07:10

    They should be called the South African Special Geriatrics Force...

  • ebdg3000 - 2011-01-21 07:15

    "The two have since been on the run, with an integrated police force of 85 officials, a helicopter and a plane hot on their heels....The house is about 500m from the one where Meniére and Jardel have lived for the past 12 ...The police identified the house as a possible hiding place ...A neighbouring farmer went to the house on Thursday morning...saw something wasn’t quite right and quickly left...About ten police officials showed up shortly after that. Sounds like a fiasco - pathetic, hot on their heels and it takes them a week to cover 500m ???!!!! Dogs, spotter a/c, choppers with night vision, etc. I'd say the cops are lucky it wasn't a proper cult with many members - I don't think they would've coped (the Waco affair in USA comes to mind).

  • princess.arlene - 2011-01-21 07:15

    Their Armageddon arrived, a year too soon by their belief that it would be 2012. They were victims of the cult to which they belonged. What a sadness.

  • goyougoodthing - 2011-01-21 07:16

    Interesting reporting, it sounded, at first, like an intro to a short story.

      coolwaynie - 2011-01-21 07:36

      Get back to keo.

  • Meyer - 2011-01-21 07:31

    We need "die Ruiter in swart", "die wit tier" or maybe Rocco De wet to sort out this country... ; )

      Spyker - 2011-01-21 16:42

      Ja Meyer Perdryer Terblanche, Wose manne wud sort dem kabouters ouwt..!! Just a pitty “to sort out this country” we first have to get rid of the “wit en swart comic strip” named AA.

  • Liquidsun - 2011-01-21 07:34

    "The house is about 500m from the one where Meniére and Jardel have lived for the past 12 years " Am i the only one that has noticed that manpower has been wasted on this search. Come on people. Perhaps not such a great day

  • Liquidsun - 2011-01-21 07:36

    "The house is about 500m from the one where Meniére and Jardel have lived for the past 12 years " Am i the only one that has noticed that manpower has been wasted on this search. Come on people. Perhaps not such a great day

      pointblankza - 2011-01-21 11:38

      I think one needs to understand everything first. Firstly, the terrian in that region is exceptionally dangerous. There are rocky outcrops which make it perfect for them to hide and also shoot from. Secondly, as much as there are rocky outcrops there are also wide open spaces - a dangerous situation for trackers and police alike. THe helicopters and planes don't just look for them they also ensure the area is safe for the police to proceed. Come on man surely you can think logically and weigh up both side, surely you not so imbalanced that you can only see one minute aspect of a situation??

  • Anton - 2011-01-21 07:39

    Perfect end to this!! Do bot fkk around in Africa people!!

  • ludlowdj - 2011-01-21 07:39

    You are all going to hate me, but were these people even given a chance to surrender or where they just killed because they had killed a policeman? Where they even armed when they were shot? I doubt it, more than likely killed while having breakfast. To the SAP sort out the corruption in your ranks, if you want to be respected, you have to earn that respect, if you act outside the bounds of the law, don't cry when suddenly realize your uniform isn't going to protect you. A criminal in uniform is still just a criminal.

      nikimbeko - 2011-01-21 08:23

      my sentiments do we truly know that they were members of a cult? Something is fishy here, how come they were never given a chance?

      Mikemcc - 2011-01-21 09:39

      @ludlowdj, do you have any proof that they weren't armed at the time? It would be a reasonable assumption that they were armed and prepared to fight given their past actions. One does not storm into a building holding known killers, armed with pepper spray only to come up against a rifle.

      pointblankza - 2011-01-21 11:13

      Oh my goodness, ludlowdj they had already killed one policeman and injured another. They had an assortment of handguns and high powered rifles, they were nutters who shot at police. When the police stormed and killed the two under fire they were discovered to be heavily armed... Please read and keep reading you missing a whole bunch of facts.

      Petronella du Toit - 2011-01-21 12:40

      @Mikemcc, the only reasonable assuption is that they feared the corruption element within the police forces and act in self defence. Police are not suppose to handle any sort of rent dispute! @Pointblank, they shot the policemen yes and all sure want to see justice being done. Justice includes a fair trail. How many crimminals go around dressed in Police Uniforms, using police weapons? If I am on an isolated farm being confronted with this strange situation, I may have done the same! Nobody can tell me that all this murders can happen with such ease if the victims were not caught by some sort of surprise involving a trustworthy entity.

      pointblankza - 2011-01-21 14:35

      Petronella, I suppose once you've walked a mile in South African policemans shoes, like I did for over 4 years, you will know what happens in situations like this. Don't forget you only getting your infomration from poorly written articles and news updates. You are not on the ground, you are not there you have no idea what transpired. I tend to think I'm a little more knowledgable then you as an ex-policeman and soldier (during the 80's), so I can almost imagine what is going on down on the ground. We have a policeman dead another seriously wounded, we have 2 murderers who have barricaded themselves in a farmhouse and armed. You don't know if they tried the peaceful approach because nowhere has it been mentioned, so to ASSUME that the cops used excessive force is unjustifible and thumb-sucking. This was not a rent dispute, and we have mentioned that before. I don't know if you even following the story or you just reading headlines, but you sound woefully ignorant on the entire proceedings. Like I said, welcome back, apartheid has ended and the blacks are in charge!

      Petronella du Toit - 2011-01-21 16:40

      @Pointblank, I can understand it must be a nerve wrecking situation yes. Also a killer to try motivate investment and trade in such environment. How on earth will we ever be able to survive if things continue like this?

  • hangone - 2011-01-21 07:40

    I have a buddy in the Special Task Force, and I went to a passing out exhibition where they did some house, bus and plane hostage situation drills, parachuting, running and shooting etc. They have some amazing skills. Only 8 new members made it for the year. From what I saw that day, they only do shoot to kill, take no chances. Otherwise the enemy pulls a stunt where those police men got shot.

      coolwaynie - 2011-01-21 07:56

      I have the video of the BBC crew that filmed these guys way back in 1999. Impressive of note! In saying that this was some weird shit. What made these two old people so sought after that required such overkill.

      Kyle_logan - 2011-01-21 08:31

      @coolwaynie they shot two cops, and had lot of illegal weapons

      LogicBomb - 2011-01-21 10:26

      @coolwaynie did you get the vid off the net? If so, please give me the URL?

      Wonderboy - 2011-01-21 10:33

      @coolwaynie, can you please stop calling them "OLD" people. Wait until you pass the thirty mark and you will soon see that old people are at least 50 years older than you.

      coolwaynie - 2011-01-21 14:54

      Bru if you want to see some of the actual footage, go to a 'certain site that shows videos'..'You' know the one...and type in Special Task Force. The one clip shows a STF team intercepting a bunch of useless's in the middle of robbing a COIN security vehicle...the ensuing shootout is awesome.

  • rethan - 2011-01-21 07:45

    yeah why don't they do the same for farm murders? Anyway well done SAPS, we don;t need criminals or murderers in this country.

      Petronella du Toit - 2011-01-21 11:18

      Well now we will never know if they were indeed crimminals, will we?There was no trail of any sort to confirm the stories.

      pointblankza - 2011-01-21 11:29

      Um Petronella, go tell that to the family of the policeman they killed. I'm sure they'll probably punch your teeth out. Oh when will the stupidity of some people end??

      Petronella du Toit - 2011-01-21 13:50

      @pointblank, dont you pretend I have no feelings towards the family. I am sure they also wants to know the truth and that justice be served.

      pointblankza - 2011-01-21 14:41

      A cop murdered and another attempted, they also tried to run over the other two.. these people were not worried about whether the cops were corrupt they were whack jobs and got whacked... Sorry, there is no other explanation, you cannot try justify these old nutters actions, ever.

  • ludlowdj - 2011-01-21 07:45

    Trevor, stop trying to turn this into a political statement, Staal is correct on most counts, and for the record, with 50 million South Africans in the country of who only 7,5 million pay tax's you had better damn well hope we "whites" don't decide to pack up and emigrate, because if we do the ANC and ultimately the country will lose approx 90% of its tax payers, lets see how quickly this country turns into just another poor African country then.Time to drop this "Entitlement Attitude" and quick, the Colonists are the ones paying financially for what you have.

      Sailor - 2011-01-21 10:19

      Times have changed and your numbers are incorrect. 99% of the tax is derives from either the natural resources or incidental services thereof not to mention VAT. I am not sure how much you personally pay but it is not enough to feed a pigeon. Please leave and go and rent out a hostel room in the UK and be comfortable and happy. SA will not miss your tax remittances at all. You can ask those that think like you to share the hostel room.

      nuclear - 2011-01-21 12:06

      Ludlow - when you drop your entitled attitude then you can ask others to do so too!

      Mabhuti - 2011-01-22 04:25

      You just speaking out of your ass. Where is the evidence that suggest that 90% of the tax payers are white? I am sick and tired of some of the white peoples attitudes, its totally uncalled for.Its always the same threats "We (whites)will pack up and live cause things aren't looking good" God dammit do something about about!! I mean aren't you South Africans?

  • WPWW - 2011-01-21 07:47

    Yes well done, totally outgunned them and all that. Just police killing survivalists is always suspicious in my eyes, the regime just can't afford to have anyone living off the grid, I think the pigs were only too eager to be assasins for the regime.

      GT - 2011-01-21 07:51

      People living off the grid don't kill cops

      beetlecrusher - 2011-01-21 08:09

      I am gobsmacked at the negative comments against the SAPS.

      Kyle_logan - 2011-01-21 08:33

      @WPWW I really wish idiots like you would spend just one day facing what the cops face.... BTW these people had alot of illegal weapons shot two cops.... if they had been your family member shot dead would you be so quick to blame the cops??

      pointblankza - 2011-01-21 11:17

      Survivalists? HAHAHAA!! Damn nutjobs man, dangerous nutjobs who took on our police members and lost.. Good riddance!

      WPWW - 2011-01-21 11:41

      Perhaps I was a bit harsh to the cops, People off the grid get harassed by govt agents,(see waco, ruby ridge killings) We need more clarity on these illegal gun charges, and why the farmer called the cops in the first place, there have been quite a few in the news recently and most of them are bullshit charges made just to harass white guys who are looking after themselves, albeit through having weapons for self defense. Also point you are not a nutjob if you can live off the grid for 12 years like the news suggests, you try it before you criticize. I'll eat my words if i'm wrong but this story just makes me feel like something is amiss, perhaps I am just looking for a conspiracy where there is none?

  • DeltaSly - 2011-01-21 07:47

    Well done to the SAP. Good work I say. Although a bit concerned it took them 6 days to find them hiding in another house only 500m from their original lodging. Surely if the tracking teams, as mentioned in a previous article, had begun a 360 degree tracking from the original house they would have moved a bit faster than 500m in six days and then only having them found with IR from a chopper...? Or is that just me being confused...?

  • factsforlive - 2011-01-21 07:49

    Wow! What an overkill. 85 Police officers vs "Oupa & Ouma' Can we now expect the same for farm attackers and murderers or can they only see in white?

      pointblankza - 2011-01-21 11:18

      Yawn, boring. Try be original.

      randrdunbar - 2011-01-21 11:40

      Well stated!

  • DeltaSly - 2011-01-21 07:52

    Well done to the TF. However - in a previous article it stated that they would begin tracking the couple in a 360 degree track from the original homestead. How, therefore, 6 days later are they found in a house 500m away from the orginal - and that by an IR chopper... Surely a decent tracker can cover 500m in less than 6 days...? Or is it just me...?

      pointblankza - 2011-01-21 11:18

      It's just you, have you seen the terrain in that area? No? THen educate yourself first.

      taf.jizz - 2011-01-21 13:19

      Like has happened in the past News24 publish this sensational stories and sit back to look at their money counter. When all facts come to light we'l bang our heads against a wall in shame for being taken for a ride one more time.

  • Hugh - 2011-01-21 07:58

    A 6 day man hunt and all they did was move 500m. Now we know have a pretty good idea wahy so many criminals get away.

  • jiamalunga - 2011-01-21 07:59

    Amazing that this sort of fire power is needed to bring down two people. This has the same ring to it when the Mighty SANDF was kept busy for days by a couple of snipers in Lesotho. I would love to see LMG's deployed when it comes to cash in transit robbers, who most of the time is armed to the teeth with assualt rifles. This to me does not makes sense. This has to show incompetency on the traing of special forces for the police. Instead of Having a good SWAT team they deployed a whole platoon of soldiers, which to the sound of it fired indescremantly at the house. Out of the force of 85 they do not even know who was armed. What a joke? They are going to take days to piece it all together! LOL! What will happen if a force of 60 well trained people start to cause problems in good old SA? The whole force seems would not be able to stop them! Just have to laugh when you take the SWAT duty list into account, especially: "Resolving high-risk situations with a minimum loss of life, injury, or property damage "

      Kyle_logan - 2011-01-21 08:36

      I seriously think you need to learn to read and understand what you read... 10 police entered the house... they did not suround and start shooting... whats the point in trying to explain idiots like you have probably never even seen a real gun..

      pointblankza - 2011-01-21 11:19

      Stupid people commenting today...

  • Willow2 - 2011-01-21 08:02

    People,people,people! ! ! ? ? ? Why are you / we attacking each other.We have, in this country, a common enemy. There are short comings (and may be more than we are aware of) in the SAPS force but that does not give any person the right to attack the other one's personality and to become abusive.

  • green_goblin - 2011-01-21 08:04

    I was a bit confused reading this story as in one statement "they were not sure if the they had commited suicide or been shot by the police" but earlier in the story they say that "when the stun grenades went off, a woman shouted somthing incomprehensible". If someone was dead and was still able to shout I think I woudl be seriously worried!!

      Kyle_logan - 2011-01-21 08:41

      police use stun granades when they enter, woman shouts and shooting is heard... so women shouts and possibly shoots herself or her husband then her selv or vice versa, police hear shots and open fire... now it could be woman and man open fire on the cops or they commited suiced either way cops them return fire, remember this all goes down in a matter of seconds, after that they have to piece together what happened. it's really not that hard to understand

  • jiamalunga - 2011-01-21 08:07

    Amazing that this sort of fire power is needed to bring down two people. This has the same ring to it when the Mighty SANDF was kept busy for days by a couple of snipers in Lesotho. I would love to see LMG's deployed when it comes to cash in transit robbers, who most of the time is armed to the teeth with assualt rifles. This to me does not makes sense. This has to show incompetency on the traing of special forces for the police. Instead of Having a good SWAT team they deployed a whole platoon of soldiers, which to the sound of it fired indescremantly at the house. Out of the force of 85 they do not even know who was armed. What a joke? They are going to take days to piece it all together! LOL! What will happen if a force of 60 well trained people start to cause problems in good old SA? The whole force seems would not be able to stop them! Just have to laugh when you take the SWAT duty list into account, especially: "Resolving high-risk situations with a minimum loss of life, injury, or property damage "

      Johnny - 2011-01-21 08:21

      Bravary medals for the SA Army and Police forces...???

  • bekie - 2011-01-21 08:07

    Take the farm owner in for questioning? He might provide vital clues. How can one keep fugitives for 12 years knowing fully that they might have illegal fire arms? I suspect this is a deal went wrong between the farmer and the two french nationals.

      Mikemcc - 2011-01-21 09:43

      They were not fugitives for 12 years.

  • - 2011-01-21 08:12

    Looking at the photo alongside the story makes it look like 'overkill' [like they are about to take on an army!]. But, yes, well done to the SAPS-the french couple sounded somewhat deranged and who knows what they could have ended up doing...

  • Han Solo - 2011-01-21 08:33

    This whole sounds fishy to me. Keep your distance though chewie..... but don't LOOK like you're keeping your distance.

  • IceMan - 2011-01-21 08:38

    might have just shot a missile at them, they were dead in the eyes of the SAPS the day they ran off after the killing.

      randrdunbar - 2011-01-21 11:45

      Yes,good point.By the way where were the tanks?

  • Weepee - 2011-01-21 08:39

    Let me get this this straight. The fugatives were holed up in an abandoned house 500 metres from where they lived! It then took special forces (70 plus air support)5 days to find them (well not really because a neighbour found them) and then the special forces run around high fiving are finally killing a 65 year old man and his 55 year old wife. Am I missing something here? Lets hope we never we never have a serious terrorist threat.

      pointblankza - 2011-01-21 11:20

      Oh the stupidity on here today is classic.

      Mariska - 2011-01-23 08:21

      Yes Weepee, you are missing a lot. Go play with your toys and leave the comments to grown-ups. Do all of the people commenting about the 500 metres really think that the couple went straight to the other farmhouse? Of course not! The knew the farm and surely had other places where they could hide for some time. They only went to the other house when the police was not searching anymore.