News24

Gay-bashing incident at top Cape varsity

2012-10-31 08:32

Cape Town - One of the Western Cape’s biggest universities has been accused of homophobia after a transgender student was beaten up at the entrance of a student residence.

A crowd gathered to watch the violent assault on Sunday while a security guard stood by, watching the incident but not doing anything, reported TimesLive.

Gay rights activist Glenton Matthyse said he had had enough of homophobic and “transphobic” behaviour on campus.

Matthyse and two other transgender students who all belonged to support group Gayla-UWC, were hurt when they tried to fight off three attackers.

Matthyse said one friend was grabbed from behind, "She fell to the ground and then [her attacker] dragged her for 2m from the entrance and began a severe physical assault." 

"His two friends pitched in and assisted in assaulting her. I tried to stop them and so did my friends. My legs were covered in blood after they were done with her. We were no match for them," said Matthyse who later added that he was now living in fear of the attackers returning.

The incident began on Saturday night at the university pub where Matthyse and friends, who were dressed in drag, used the men’s toilet and were verbally abused by patrons, who then followed them to their residence where the beating took place.

A university spokesperson, Luthando Tyhalibongo, said an investigation would we held and said the university did not condone violence or any kind of discrimination.

He said staff and security broke up the fight, and claimed Gayla UWC members insulted the guards.

Tyhalibongo claimed Matthyse and his friends were drunk and unruly, and because of this, police were unable to take statements from them.

Matthyse said he and his friends were not unruly.

"A Constable Smith, from Bellville South police station, grinned and chuckled when I tried to explain what happened.

"When I asked him about this he said it was a form of 'stress relief'."

Comments
  • johanttblom - 2012-10-31 08:54

    How is UWC a top Cape Town university? Its one of the bottom two and light years behind UCT and US the top two ....... Strange how Stellenbosch male res students are portrayed as homophobic yet if something like this were to happen to a gay res 'brother' the whole res would assault his assailants.

      wesley.bischoff - 2012-10-31 09:05

      True that... most guys at Stellenbosch are cool with gays, sure there are a few that are still stuck in the stone age, but that is few and far between.

      johanttblom - 2012-10-31 09:46

      Because bigotry is a primitive human thought process.....

      oistar.tutu.9 - 2012-10-31 11:10

      @Jaco. Your question defies belief and logic

      jaco.kriek.5 - 2012-10-31 11:26

      What people have difficulty understanding is that one can judge the act but not the person. Most religions will tell you homosexuality is a sin, but a person can always step away from it. All sins are equally sinful, but you need to step away and repent. Violent acts against any person is wrong. Making violence against homosexual a bigger thing than violence against straight people is wrong (and stating that homosexuals need to be treated differently, not equally, thus contradicting most of the arguments about equal treatment etc.)

      jaco.kriek.5 - 2012-10-31 11:41

      Wesley: Atheist and religious people cannot debate moral issues due to different bases being used. Everyone believes in God or a god.... those don't (say they don't), is their own god, thus also serving a god, him/her self.

      Moi - 2012-10-31 11:42

      "What people have difficulty understanding is that one can judge the act but not the person." Always the same old line used to justify the judgmental behaviour. You cannot judge the "act" and not the person because it is not an "act" it's who they are. It's like saying you condemn the act of murder but not the murderer???

      wesley.bischoff - 2012-10-31 12:22

      Sorry no, i do not believe in any deity. That is what atheism is, LACK of belief. I am not the only person with this lack of belief.

      rupesh.hari.7 - 2012-10-31 12:24

      Stellenbosch is one of the most progressive institutions in SA. This and Tukkies. They are well transformed. Everyone takes transformation to be a race thing. In fact, it doesn't have to be. Transformation is also about acceptance of this minority community that were treated badly by the apartheid regime. Good on US and Tukkies for being transformed in this regard.

      oistar.tutu.9 - 2012-10-31 12:25

      @Jaco. We have a problem with religion if it discriminates against gays. Religion is supposed toi teach you not to discriminate. Simple. But you are to fogged up in piety

      lorain.maseko - 2012-10-31 13:00

      @ jaco.kriek.5 - Well said

      jaco.kriek.5 - 2012-10-31 13:19

      @oistar.tutu: Religion does not change to how you want it. It is written in stone and you must adhere to it. If you are a believer but your rules changes as it suits you, you are effectively worshipping yourself. I summarise: I do not hate/judge/discriminate gays, but I wish them to repent and leave it behind, just like any person not on the right path.

      oistar.tutu.9 - 2012-10-31 13:31

      Excuse me Jaco. I have no need/desire/will or reason to repent my sexuality. Sorry boet ... I just prefer sleeping with men than with women. Much like your choice over whether you like tea or coffee.

      rikus.zietsman1967 - 2012-10-31 13:33

      Jaco, the only thing you're proving by commenting is this: http://news.yahoo.com/low-iq-conservative-beliefs-linked-prejudice-180403506.html http://thegrio.com/2012/02/01/new-study-links-racism-prejudice-and-conservatism-to-low-iq/ Please stop being such a bigot

      jaco.kriek.5 - 2012-10-31 13:48

      @Rikus: lol! Classic! :-) Luckily I know how studies work so I'm not too bothered.... even if my IQ were low, this would only mean that you are by mentioning IQ actually discriminating on people with low IQs! Shame on you! :-)

      gerrit.vanrooyen.37 - 2012-10-31 13:49

      @Rupeshhari Tell that to SASCO and the ANCYL who believe Stellenbosch is last bastion of white Afrikaner imperialism. Yes, there is racism and homophobia in Stellenbosch, but not significantly more than anywhere else in our country. SU is certainly not an institution that discourages transformation and tolerance.

      james.hurley.1401 - 2012-10-31 15:13

      @jaco whilst it may be true that atheist people and religious people cannot debate issues due to religious people clinging so parochially to what a book tells them, the fact remains that your view on 'sin' does not apply to those who do not share your beliefs. So for you to tell someone who is not religious (or at least, in my case, is agnostic and does not believe in the concept of divine retribution) that they are sinful, is irrelevant. Better keep your inability to think for yourself to yourself in future.

      JManAtheoi - 2012-10-31 15:51

      @jaco.kriek... "those don't (say they don't), is their own god, thus also serving a god, him/her self.".... wow you really are clueless aren't you? "just like any person not on the right path".... you mean YOUR path? I agree with JamesHurleyZA 100%.

      QuestioningFaith - 2012-10-31 16:20

      ... And, contrary to the religious imagination: the fact that someones does not affirm a diety does not mean he sees himself as a god. The difference in our sense of morality and yours is that you do right out of fear (of hell and a smiting old Testament God), we do right because we really care for our fellow humans, both friends and not. But I get it: it is unimaginable for you that people would treat each other well due to love and respect; there must be some God to watch over your actions or what? You'd just go ahead and do as you please? Seems when it comes to gay-bashing the oh-so-pious church-sitters do just as they like, already...

      johanttblom - 2012-10-31 17:32

      Jaco a different view .(Atheists I do apologise for the fairytales ;) ) I'm gay and Christian . So is my boyfriend of almost 3 years . I know I was created gay since I've lived through the denial , the self hate , the trying to change etc . Believe me it doesn't work . You just become depressed ,unbalanced , disconnected and self hate turns to hating God eventually because why isn't he changing me . So I eventually accepted myself . I came to the conclusion that the writers of the bible didn't understand sexuality ( only promiscuity ) and thus didn't actually condemn the fact that I'm gay . I met my bf , became friends , fell in love , rediscovered my relationship with God and the fruits of this relationship has only been a blessing to my life , my boyfriends life and my Christianity . I love and care for him too much for it to ever be a sin. Go think about it....

      james.hurley.1401 - 2012-10-31 17:35

      @questioning - a big YES to your second point. I've always felt frustrated with the argument, when one points out the abuses of the catholic church, christian missionaries in African countries, etc, of 'see what good the religious do'. The fact is that people are people, and ethical people will care for others while unethical people will not. The idea of doing good because a book tells you that you will be rewarded for your virtue strikes me as a hollow kind of good.

      Sunshine- - 2012-11-01 20:38

      Jaco if homosexuality is a biblical sin why did the Son of God have absolutely nothing bad to say about it?

  • PumaFred - 2012-10-31 08:55

    UWC - just say it

  • mzakes.matabata - 2012-10-31 09:00

    everyone that beats-up on gay people is gay themselves, they try to suppress the gay emotions and feelings in them by beating and insulting gay people.

      wesley.bischoff - 2012-10-31 09:28

      Mzakes.... you da man. Thank you for being a decent human being, and not a hateful closet case

      mzakes.matabata - 2012-10-31 09:56

      @vaal donkie, i suggest you brush up on your medical knowledge. I have gay family members and i love them to bits. There is no shame we are what we are so i suggest you come clean with your wife/girlfriend

      andreviljoenjoubert - 2012-10-31 10:07

      @mzakes.matabata. So true. I always say. Homophobia. The fear that gay men will treat you the way you treat woman.

      infijar.ken - 2012-10-31 11:10

      Vaal Donkie, your handle explains everything about you, you bigot. A Gay friend of mine once told me that ANY man can be turned. The easiest to turn are the hypocrites who fight the hardest. As mzakes suggests, time for you to go home and come clean. Out of the closet time for you.

      mzakes.matabata - 2012-10-31 13:50

      @eye_see_all, that you would call a normal fight if there is something like that. I kinda find it hard to imagine a gay person beating someone else because they gay. Your screen name is a Fail because clearly you don't see what's happening around you.

      tigza.mafu - 2012-10-31 15:21

      Hold on mzakes! Seems as if u recruiting straight guys to b gays. Y recruiting? Bt judging by responses frm your comments u winning joe. If I wake up tomorrow being gay I wil kill maself

      james.hurley.1401 - 2012-10-31 16:04

      @Tigza the fact that many young gay and lesbian people are bullied into killing themselves (though this is especially prevalent in America) would make me hope that people would stop pushing the tired idea that being gay is sufficient reason to kill yourself. As a gay person, I have to say that the kind of hatred I have either encountered or witnessed towards other people is the only thing that would ever have the chance of driving me to such an action, but not being gay itself. That means nothing. It's the unnecessary hatred that is frustrating and depressingly pointless.

      james.hurley.1401 - 2012-10-31 16:05

      P.s. being attracted to the same sex is an innate attribute, it isn't a military occupation (#ohnonotmorerecruitmentrhetoric)

      katlego.mahlase - 2012-10-31 16:11

      this is dumbest argument ever. by that logic then lactose intolerant ppl are secretly lovers of dairy products. FOHWTBS!

      james.hurley.1401 - 2012-10-31 17:40

      @katlego - no, that is a pretty ridiculous analogy/argument that you just made, in its own right. Lactose intolerance is biologial; homophobia is not. There have been psychological studies that show that people who are severely homophobic are more likely to have gay tendencies. You only need to look at all the US congressmen who supported anti-gay legislature and were caught with their pants down with male escorts to figure that one out. Lactose intolerance is chemical, it is unrelated to psychological desire/causes, whereas homophobia is related to the psyche. If you're going to make an analogy, at least make a useful/relevant one.

      vaaldonkie.visagie - 2012-11-02 10:10

      I would never have a gay guy watching my back.

      james.hurley.1401 - 2012-11-03 13:08

      @Donkie - well that's good because no gay guy would ever want to

  • sthembiso.jali.50 - 2012-10-31 09:08

    that's just terrible. why beating up gays mara ? they are same like the rest of other human kind.

      wesley.bischoff - 2012-10-31 09:18

      Thank you Sthembiso :)

      lorain.maseko - 2012-10-31 10:25

      @ wesley.bischoff -1500 animal gay species? LMAO where did you get that? Fumanekile is right it's unatural.

      sthembiso.jali.50 - 2012-10-31 10:36

      @ fumanekile - u make it sounds like its their fault 2 be gay. what if it was ur child ?

      oistar.tutu.9 - 2012-10-31 10:58

      lorain. Its not right to be a racist, a sexist, a bigot etc etc etc. I think your god will punish you more for being a bigot than he will punish any gay people. slug

      wesley.bischoff - 2012-10-31 11:02

      It's called fact. Penguins, dolphins, lions to name but a few. http://www.news-medical.net/news/2006/10/23/20718.aspx http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_animals_displaying_homosexual_behavior http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/15750604/ns/technology_and_science-science/t/gay-animals-out-closet/ http://www.sciforums.com/showthread.php?59966-1500-Animals-are-Homosexuals-Gay-Animals-Come-Out-of-Closet

      LanfearM - 2012-10-31 11:23

      @ fumanekile & lorain - do some research of your own and you will quickly find these statistics. It is true, biological researchers have observed homosexual behaviour in more than 1500 different animal species. It is NOT unnatural. FYI, I as a woman will CHOOSE if I want a child or not! Over population is a major issue in our country and the world, and you just want to breed more and more humans? For WHAT? So that the whole human race can starve together when we have killed all other life on the planet? Use your brains for a change and think for yourselves!

      surfing.sam.9 - 2012-10-31 11:30

      Wesley a lot of research to prove that you could be gay, could one maybe be confused?

      lorain.maseko - 2012-10-31 11:35

      @ Lanfear I didnt say people must just breed,ofcourse it's a choice,truth be told though some of them like to shove their sexual preferences into our personal space and that is just wrong, why did they go to a straight pub and go into a men's toilet dressed in drag?

      Moi - 2012-10-31 11:45

      "why did they go to a straight pub and go into a men's toilet dressed in drag?" A straight pub?? really?

      LanfearM - 2012-10-31 12:05

      @ lorain.maseko - do you know what you sound like? That argument has been used in older days to justify segregated bars and restaurants. So gays must stick to gay bars? Segregation all over again. Our hetrosexuality is shoved into their faces daily, for their whole lives from birth to death. So one night you see a couple of cross-dressed gay guys in a "hetero pub" in they deserve to be beaten? Perhaps it wasnn't gay bashing per se, and just another bar fight, true, yet the fact that police laughed at it [just like a lot of them do when a woman reports rape!] and the security just looked on, is unaceptable.

      brad.ken.18 - 2012-10-31 12:11

      @fumanekile.ralane - not human is murdering 90 year old people, set them on fire with petrol, raping babies to rid themselves of AIDS and so the list goes on. That's CLEARLY YOUR category!

      bryan.torien - 2012-10-31 12:19

      @ fumanekile, if you born a girl in long term you must give birth??? Good grief no, you've been given that ability for when you decide you want to be a parent (some are not so lucky by the way) you don't just give birth good grief no! Far too many people just giving birth left right and centre and most doing it for Allpay if you know what I mean. Lorrain, why did they go to a straight club? Really, is that seriously a question? Now they are being told where they can go? Won't be long with that kind of thinking before they're denied a seat on the bus or the first class carriages on the train either. Remember that??? Ophou vir jou soos 'n KONTant Tjek hou!

      james.hurley.1401 - 2012-10-31 15:18

      @lorain.maseko - you clearly don't understand what 'transgender' means. It's not the same thing as drag, and even if it were, I fail to see how dressing in drag warrants violence. As far as christian pseudo-morality goes, translated into biblical terms, beating up someone for what they wear is a miniskirt for an eye, high-heeled shoes for a tooth. Whatever.

      Billy - 2012-11-01 10:23

      people should never justify their actions by the behaviour of animals. they are animals.. animals have incest and eat their young for example. not a good idea to say its ok to be gay because animals do it.

      LanfearM - 2012-11-01 11:26

      @ billy - we homo sapiens are animals too. Primates to be exact. We have evolved intelligent brains, that can see the effects of interbreeding in a too close bloodline, that is why we don't condone incest. As to eating their young, they only do that when there is famine you idiot. In older times humans didn't eat their young in hard times, but they did leave them outside to die because they couldn't afford to feed another mouth. The argument of "animals do it too" is because so many people who are against gays, continue to say it is "unnatural", while it is in reality not unnatural at all.

  • evidence.dumba - 2012-10-31 09:21

    Is it proper for a gay lady to use men's toilet? By the way I do not beleive in the use of violence to settle a misunderstanding.

      stirrer.stirrer - 2012-10-31 11:09

      A toilet's plumbing matches the "plumbing" of whoever uses it. So if you are a gay man, use the men's toilet, etc. I think the problem here was because the gays were in drag, so the clothing didn't match the plumbing, so there was quite a bit of provocation involved.

      rupesh.hari.7 - 2012-10-31 12:27

      stirrer, how is it provocation when some dresses differently.

      wesley.bischoff - 2012-10-31 13:26

      So now a certain individual cannot express him/herself freely, just because some bigotted people MIGHT have an issue with it? Clearly some of you think the sun shines out your a$$es.

  • oistar.tutu.9 - 2012-10-31 09:31

    UWC also is infamous for its racism, mostly black on white

  • mshiniboys - 2012-10-31 09:38

    Hehehehehe i dont wana get involved :)

  • badbooysen - 2012-10-31 09:52

    WOW, amazing how a simple bar-fight turned into a discrimination against gays. I think this is poor journalism, it aims to confuse rather than inform. Typical modern day propaganda. The commentary is even more sickening, and portrays remnants of the previous regime. It is unfortunate that this kind of ignorance, still prevails.

  • sihlangu.hokweni - 2012-10-31 10:03

    I CAN'T UNDERSTAND NOR ACCEPT HATE BASED ON SEXUAL ORIENTATION.Isn't this a RAINBOW Nation?

      Odicito - 2012-10-31 15:43

      Its bizarre dude! I watched a bunch of TV ads here in the US of politicians trying to convince the public to vote against gay marriage. And I thought WHY?? Why does it bother them so much? Why would you go all out to stop people from living their life the way their WANT while they don't harm anyone? Inconceivable.

  • desmond.s.leaner - 2012-10-31 10:11

    Even if the individuals were drunk and unruly - hitting them with Campus Control looking on and police giggling is not funny. I would advise the attacked to go to Legal Aid!

  • bongani.mahlangu.923724 - 2012-10-31 10:12

    How can a woman use a men's toilet. Mxm this is disgusting. Boy is a boy n a girl is a girl.

      gail.hayesbean - 2012-10-31 19:49

      A man who is transgender looks like anyother man in the physical sense however as an individual this man feels like a woman and reacts like a woman and likes feminine dress etc. If this individual is attired as a woman in a public place and requires to use the bathroom they have a real problem because if they are found in the Ladies room by real women they could be arrested on suspicion of entering under false pretences so that they ca molest straight women. Men who are homophobic see transgender men as aberrations who are taking the p--s out of real menand casting doubt on their masculinity. These homophobic tyes appoint themselves as judge jury and executioner out of fear and ignorance of a fellow human's unasked for difference in sexuality Why would any sane person deliberately attempt to attract censure and loathing. All they want is to be treated as human beings with feelings. They are not asking you to be like them or recruiting you as a partner.In a sense they differently abled in the cruelest way. Of course alcohol is bound to bring out the worst in a certain type of person who thrives on violence but everyone is equal before the law and the fact that the law stood by and condoned what was happening is just wrong. This is no different from police standing by and doing nothing when a cripple is being assaulted.

      merven.halo - 2012-11-01 08:25

      Then these people must decide if they want to be seen as women or men. If they want to be seen as women, they must use the woman's toilet. If they want to be seen as men, they should dress accordingly and use the man's toilet. Anyway, women toilets are all enclosed where mens toilets normally got a open cribs. I for sure do not want to piss in front of the opposite sex and clearly these dudes see themselves as the 'opposite sex' by dressing as such.

  • diana.gill.18 - 2012-10-31 10:13

    Something is not feeling right here and definitely it will be much more info to reveal.. I do not believe that someone would want to beat those "strangers" only because they were cross-dressed and for sure homosexuals are not harmless butterflies at all. There's a big possibility that they have started a violent fight themselves to later complain and accuse everyone of homophobia.

      wesley.bischoff - 2012-10-31 10:22

      Well i got punched in the face by a total stranger, that ran away. So yes, there are cowardly people like that out in the world. Do not underestimate people's hatred, which is fuelled by ignorance and fear.

      jonathanlee.oosthuizen - 2012-10-31 10:25

      Yet another straight person that believes ppl that are gay are animals. Straight ppl always abuse gay ppl. But gay ppl didn't ask to be gay. Its a part of life. The same like you were made a woman but not asked to be one. I'm not trying to be nasty. Its just that there are more things to worry about. And in fact gay people are the most anti racist and loveable persons u can get.

      diana.gill.18 - 2012-10-31 10:34

      Still doesnt make any sense that someone can be assaulted just for wearing inappropriate outfit. Moreover the gay boys and girls like to make big fat victims out of themselves and look for attention whatever it takes. I do not justify the staff reaction in a case if everything has happened the way the article describes, but unfortunately it has been proven for so many times that the innocent victim of some incident reported on the news.24 page later on turns to be a guilty part.

      diana.gill.18 - 2012-10-31 10:41

      @jonathanlee I do not say that the gay people are animals or you should exterminate or project any kind of violence onto them. I am just plain and honest that i do not understand the attraction in between two individuals of the same sex and do not find it right or natural.

      oistar.tutu.9 - 2012-10-31 11:03

      It does not make sense Diana. But then look at some of the phobic comments above. Although it does not make sense, it still exists. Blacks do seem to be particularly homophobic, unfortunatly

      wesley.bischoff - 2012-10-31 11:37

      ^ That comment is so stupid. We are born gay, just like you are born straight. It is religion/culture/tradition/ignorance that causes people to be bigotted and hateful toward a group of people.

      lorain.maseko - 2012-10-31 11:39

      @ diana.gill.18 you are so right and because the word homophobic is thrown around so loosely they tend to over step their boundires knowing that if someone retaliates then that word can be thrown at them, i have gay friends but they resepct themselves and others hence none of them have ever been in a conflict of any sort

      oistar.tutu.9 - 2012-10-31 12:31

      @ lorain. seeing your comments over the last few days I have decided that I would not like you no matter what the colour of your skin. But seems that you have been a victim of racism in the past, one would think you would be twice as careful to be a bully of someone else's characteristics.

      oistar.tutu.9 - 2012-10-31 12:39

      And Diana. I have never enjoyed playing rugby. I don't like watching rugby. But that does not make me sit around discriminating against rugby players because I am intelligent enough to realise that other people have different likes and dislikes than I do. If your ouitlook on life is so narrowed that you think that we must all think the same as you then you are hopelessly wrong. It is time you altered your little pea-brained perception then.

      lorain.maseko - 2012-10-31 12:50

      @ oistar.tutu.9 I can completely live with you disliking me.

      andrez.kolesky - 2012-10-31 12:56

      @oistar. "I have never enjoyed playing rugby" Does that exclude couch rugby ??

      oistar.tutu.9 - 2012-10-31 13:34

      @ Andrez. Huh?

      andrez.kolesky - 2012-10-31 13:52

      @oista Duh !!

      diana.gill.18 - 2012-10-31 14:39

      @oistar this is my perception and i am quite happy with it and moreover i feel absolute free to speak my mind without enforcing my point of view on anyone. If you are happy to be a gay, please be that and grin from ear to ear, in no case i am going to demonstrate against people like you or call to break violence. What amazes me is how you react to any disagreement by jumping out of your pants and trying to bring yourselves forward as the best thing ever living on earth. Grow some balls, at least.

      james.hurley.1401 - 2012-10-31 15:24

      @diana - this is a very toned down version of the vile rubbish you have spewed on other threads, namely: 'Why shouldn't those qu''rs [sic] rights supporters from the EU create some kind of a safe house and welcome all the abused and despised to stay there and be sheltered for life?' - the very fact you think there should be a bantustan for gay people shows how 'enlightened' you are. Your pretense at rational understanding and unimpeachable neutrality here is disproven by your bigoted rhetoric elsewhere.

      diana.gill.18 - 2012-10-31 15:49

      Molly james its a sign of a bad taste (or insecurity?)to like your own so to say comments and yes i am signing under each of my previous words and do not pretend i have never said this. BTW what about the racist video of De La Rey?

      oistar.tutu.9 - 2012-10-31 15:59

      But Dina, you contradict yourself. Now you are saying that you are free to voice your opinion and you are not going to demonstarte against people like me. But, you have demonstrated against people like me (read your comments above). If it is a free world where you may voice your opinion, why is it not a free world for us where when we voice our sexuality, we get shot down. Double standards.

      james.hurley.1401 - 2012-10-31 16:00

      @Diana neither Molly nor James are my names, but keep trying to put me down with the infantile name-calling that is so typical of people of your stunted maturity level. I find it funny you have to make an irrelevant comment about the amount of likes my comments received - last time i checked most of your comments have more downward thumbs than upwards. Says a lot about the relatability of your inane, inept comments.

      oistar.tutu.9 - 2012-10-31 16:08

      well said James

      james.hurley.1401 - 2012-10-31 17:44

      @oistar - likewise. This woman is vile - have a look at the post on Ukranian gay rights (she's from Ukraine originally) - there you can see her ugly bigotry in all its censoriousness - that is, if she hasn't deleted the base rhetoric out of shame yet.

      merven.halo - 2012-11-01 08:30

      "And in fact gay people are the most anti racist and loveable persons u can get." Ever been to a gay club in Pretoria as a straight couple? Clearly not. You are not allowed to kiss or hold your straight girl, funny how the gays shout for equal rights but in their clubs there is no such thing.

      james.hurley.1401 - 2012-11-01 13:04

      @Merven what a load of rubbish - in my few experiences of gay clubs (i last went clubbing a few years ago though) I have never seen any straight people 'not allowed' to do whatever they please. Please explain to me in what way you were 'not allowed' - did someone physically prevent you? If so that was a rubbish club and is not a reflection of gay people in general. Must I start making generalizations about so-called 'coloured' people based on my experience in one joint? No.

      merven.halo - 2012-11-01 14:28

      @ JamesHurleyZa - the bouncer walked up to us and told us that straight behaviour is not allowed in the club. It happened at a club in the Moot and also at Stardust.

      james.hurley.1401 - 2012-11-01 14:39

      @Merven - well next time specify that this happened at two (might I add extremely tacky) clubs. Cape Town's clubs have never had anything like that. I personally don't club because I find it boring in general. I think there will always be clubs that have stupid policies - don't go to those clubs (and if I were you, make a complaint with the management - these things don't change themselves).

      james.hurley.1401 - 2012-11-01 14:44

      @Merven - furthermore I am pretty sure if I kissed a guy in a 'straight' club (of which there are far more than gay clubs) I'd probably receive a similar reception - I don't agree with either policy. But also, if I did receive hostility, I'm sure many straight people would say I was 'flaunting' my sexuality and 'shoving it down people's throats'. So maybe also, what you can learn from your experience, is how ludicrous it is to be made to feel that an ordinary expression of affection is forbidden and unwelcome.

  • johanttblom - 2012-10-31 10:22

    BTW news24 transsexual or crossdressers doesn't equate to gay and gay doesn't equate to trans/crossdressing . The one is a identity/gender/fetish classification (you get straight men who cross dress and men who identify as woman that are attracted to woman - complicated I know) where as the other is a sexual orientation.

      thurlo.cicero - 2012-10-31 11:37

      As true as it may be, it is the only minority group that accepts them. The Gay liberation movement speaks of LGBTIQ people, and thus make it technically correct. Also psychology deals with this under the banner: core gender identity - which is generally the 3rd stage and is the deep inner feeling a person has about whether s/he is male or female. The first stage deals with sexual orientation, the second - behaviour.

      johanttblom - 2012-10-31 17:06

      It still isn't the same thing . Being gay means you are attracted to men and you are a male ( don't know whether this extends to woman that identify as men and attracted to men ) . Gay = homosexuality( same sex attraction ) and is only a subset in the LGBTI rights movement and though it might be dealt with in the same sections in literature that will never make it the same thing.

  • Antipoaching - 2012-10-31 10:24

    The spokesman is not so good at "spin", he comes across as almost condoning the incident but not because of sexuality rather because in the opinion of campus security the victims were "unruly". A statement along the lines that "investigation ongoing, condemn violence and intolerance from any source" may have been a better idea....

  • tashagqadu - 2012-10-31 11:14

    gays are just confused beings, why use a male toilet when you are dressed in drag?

      kerri.barlow.5 - 2012-10-31 11:25

      Would you allow a woman dressed as a man to use the mens toilet? We should stop asserting gender onto people based on their sex.

      vaaldonkie.visagie - 2012-10-31 12:43

      "We should stop asserting gender onto people based on their sex." ...

      kerri.barlow.5 - 2012-10-31 13:41

      Yes Vaaldonkie and?

      vaaldonkie.visagie - 2012-10-31 14:33

      When you can pee standing up, I will admit that your gender is male.

      kerri.barlow.5 - 2012-10-31 14:43

      Your sex entails the physical attributes that make you either male or female. Gender is how you choose you explore and define your identity along the lines of sex. Seriously? This is first year stuff.

      tigza.mafu - 2012-10-31 15:05

      Where do these gays pee? In a male restrooms or females? I'm nt dt informed regarding d sexual identity of dese people. Do they belong to our group \males\ of females? They definately confuses me.

      kerri.barlow.5 - 2012-10-31 15:22

      In most gay clubs I've been to the toilets are unisex. Why must they be forced to choose. This is the problem when limit our understanding of what makes us male or female. People are not clear cut and neither are their identities. Neither should society be.

      james.hurley.1401 - 2012-10-31 15:32

      @kerri I like your open-mindedness and ability to think unclouded by irrational fear of gender difference. As for Vaal.Donkie - women can actually pee standing up; a device was developed which a woman may insert and use, for convenience' sake, to urinate standing up. Now you'll probably say this is unnatural - it's no more unnatural than other man-made devices which provide convenience, such as prescription glasses and food processors.

      kerri.barlow.5 - 2012-10-31 16:00

      Thanks James. I can thank a year of anthropology for that :) I really enjoy the subject of identity. Vaaldonkie kind of sounds like my oupa. Stuck in his ways, luckily that's not how society works.

      vaaldonkie.visagie - 2012-11-01 09:31

      The irony being that the more homo's in society, the less it works.

      james.hurley.1401 - 2012-11-01 13:11

      @donkie as you have zero hard evidence/proof for that fact, I will laugh it off as I do all your trivial comments. Are you like that idiotic pastor in the States who recently blamed Hurricane Sandy on gays? What a laugh.

      Sunshine- - 2012-11-01 21:26

      I'm with James and Kerri on this. I'm straight so it was strange at first but I've been to enough nightclubs with unisex toilets to know that once you get used to it no one really gives a f*ck. You need the toilet. Get on with it! Re sex and gender, sex is your body, gender is your brain. How anyone else can tell you what your mind feels is right for you is down to their arrogance, ignorance and insecurity.

      vaaldonkie.visagie - 2012-11-02 10:09

      How about the decadent roman empire where buttseks was the norm.

      james.hurley.1401 - 2012-11-03 13:12

      @donkie - once again you reveal your lack of historical knowledge. In the Roman Empire it was not 'the norm' but considered a rite of passage for men to take on young men to 'instruct' in love. To me its a peculiar way of organizing social structures, but this was a societal practice and encompassed far more than just sex - in fact the sexual aspect did not always feature. What you call 'buttsecks' will never be the norm, but a surprising number of hetero people I know have spoken about giving it a try so your equation of 'buttseks' with homosexuality is also wrong.

  • mtakayi - 2012-10-31 11:21

    We as Democratic Allliance Students Organisation (DASO) UWC will investigate the matter and release a statement soon.

      wesley.bischoff - 2012-10-31 11:38

      Viva DASO! Viva!

  • kerri.barlow.5 - 2012-10-31 11:22

    Disgusting behaviour for students. Who some one chooses to love is none of anyone else's business neither is how someone chooses to dress. You don't have to agree with it but you have no right to assault them. The world is changing and every time it does its met with violence.

  • francois.v.eeden.3 - 2012-10-31 11:30

    lol at UWC top cpt uni...and Ravensmead High top high school....

  • kerri.barlow.5 - 2012-10-31 11:36

    @paulus Please expand? What makes a girl a girl? What's makes a boy a boy? How do you define that? Would you like to go back to the days of women in the kitchen and men at work? When certain jobs were only for certain genders? How about you rather open your mind and try understand a person and who they are instead of making conform to your world view of who everyone should be act and dress and love

  • Moi - 2012-10-31 11:39

    Disgusting. Hope that girl is ok and makes a full recovery.

      james.hurley.1401 - 2012-10-31 15:33

      I also hope that girl is ok.

      mawandewonderman.mkuba - 2012-11-01 06:24

      Hope so too coz if she dies, hell is waiting 4 her/him/her/him whatever

      james.hurley.1401 - 2012-11-01 13:12

      @mawande I think, if there is a hell (which I highly doubt), it is waiting for hate-filled people who inflict violence on others, not people whose gender identity is different to their anatomical sex.

      kenny.bianco.7 - 2012-11-01 17:10

      @James you call Mawande a hater whereas you hate your own gender?

      james.hurley.1401 - 2012-11-01 18:39

      @kenny You clearly cannot read. Not only did I not call mawanewonderman a hater, I also nowhere stated that I hate my own gender. I said that hell, I would think, would be reserved for people who inflict suffering, not people who do not conform to gender norms (which does not inflict suffering). Do not try detract from the issue by putting words in my mouth. Any fool can see I did not call mawande a hater. Grow up.

  • thunder.clap.587 - 2012-10-31 11:42

    What,they left it alive...?

      lorain.maseko - 2012-10-31 12:34

      That's just twisted

      james.hurley.1401 - 2012-10-31 15:34

      and this from the person spewing empty christian rhetoric on other threads. Leave it to christians to wish death on people. Sad. Pathetic actually.

  • alicia.kalilharvey - 2012-10-31 12:11

    Amazing how a hate crime has now turned to even more hate on the comments!!! When will we all want change together??? #justsaying

  • charlene.patel.7 - 2012-10-31 12:48

    disgusting...we ALL have rights.

      wesley.bischoff - 2012-10-31 13:33

      Apparently, some people think they have more rights than others, or that their rights are more important than others.

      art5SA - 2012-10-31 21:04

      Wesley... especially the "RELIGOUS" ones... "It is written in STONE..." ROFLMAO! (Pardon the pun)

  • amanda.strydom - 2012-10-31 13:22

    Again a poor article by News24 - only 4 paragraphs into the article does one figure out it's University of the Western Cape - by reference to the 'support group Gayla-UWC'. Seriously News24 - employ some proper journalists, or don't bother.

      vaaldonkie.visagie - 2012-10-31 14:34

      They fired all their journalists at the end of last year as a "cost-cutting measure".

      oistar.tutu.9 - 2012-10-31 16:09

      Agree with you Amanda. News24 does spew out some of the worst journalism

  • somikazi.pita - 2012-10-31 18:18

    Lol...@ Constable Smith \stress relief\!

  • donald.perumal - 2012-10-31 19:21

    Hey SA :Some people are Gay -get over it!

      mawandewonderman.mkuba - 2012-11-01 06:20

      You must be gay

      james.hurley.1401 - 2012-11-01 13:16

      @mawandewonderman - so what? I am gay but I will stand up and speak out about abuse against a person for their orientation, gender identity, 'race' or any other thing that doesn't affect anyone else's lives. Imagine it's apartheid. Imagine a white person (eg Father Trevor Huddleston) speaks out against the treatment of black people. Do people turn around and say 'you must be black!'? No, they don't. Because human decency is human decency; you don't have to be gay to believe in the fair treatment of gay people, just as you don't have to be black to believe in the fair treatment of black people.

  • ian.lowe.5458 - 2012-10-31 19:29

    Sick

  • ceba.mlandu - 2012-10-31 21:36

    next time throw in a punch

  • jacqueline.engelbrecht.54 - 2012-10-31 21:58

    I am a Christian and I can honestly say I am ashamed of the bigotry on here disguised as Christian values. Its hypocritical to choose which parts of the Bible you want to throw at others, while you hide behind your sanctimonious lily-white sin free lives. If you do not know what transgender is, educated yourself instead of sounding like a complete idiot, to the people referring to the 'straight' bar, think back a few years and remember the whites only or blacks only segregation. Pot meet kettle! I am honestly starting to prefer LGBT individuals to the poisonous straight-haters out there.

      www.hephzibah.wapsite.me - 2012-10-31 22:03

      How are you a christian?Because of your parents? I'm afraid it does'nt work that way.Start reading the Bible a bit will you ?Nobody is born a Christian.

      www.hephzibah.wapsite.me - 2012-10-31 22:11

      You say you're a christian but you don't seem to know the Bible. Very strange. Read the Bible a bit will you if you call yourself a Christian and see what GOD thinks of the matter.

      www.hephzibah.wapsite.me - 2012-10-31 22:11

      You say you're a christian but you don't seem to know the Bible. Very strange. Read the Bible a bit will you if you call yourself a Christian and see what GOD thinks of the matter.

      jacqueline.engelbrecht.54 - 2012-11-01 09:53

      How can you judge whether I know the Bible or not? I did not quote any Bible references, I commented on the hypocricy. Nor did I say I was born a Christian, but that I am a Christian. You might want to get the facts before you start spouting your agenda.

      james.hurley.1401 - 2012-11-01 13:18

      @Hephzibah - the bible is not the word of God, it is what people believe God to have said, and furthermore, much of it was put in according to the politics of various councils which decided what to include and exclude. It is so agenda-motivated, it's no wonder that hypocritical christians bleat on about a 'gay agenda' when christianity is one big agenda-ridden joke from start to finish.

      Sunshine- - 2012-11-01 21:21

      Hephzibah, How about you read the Bible and show us where the Son of God said homosexuality is a sin. Jesus didn't say it, neither should anyone who believes in what he said.

  • rupert.beukes.1 - 2012-11-01 05:42

    And Mr.Ms.???Matthyse and friends were quiet and did nothing to provoke anybody......YAH RIGHT!!! logic dictates otherwise

  • brendon.nel.7 - 2012-11-01 05:53

    Its clearly a matter of he said she said. No wait...she/he said he said. Or is it he/she said.... Oh hell who know. Its just weird.

  • mawandewonderman.mkuba - 2012-11-01 06:16

    Why dnt hormosexuals get it... They are sick humans who need help.

      james.hurley.1401 - 2012-11-01 13:19

      I am in perfectly good health and don't need your help. Especially as it would be incompetent, judging by your empathy as well as your spelling.

      marius.j.rensburg.3 - 2012-11-01 18:00

      us "hormosexuals" are just doing just fine but thanks for your concern. As a black person I would have thought you understood discrimination well, or do you just play that card when it suits you...?

      Sunshine- - 2012-11-01 21:11

      Haha, I wonder how many straight people's lives have been saved over the years by the donated blood of LGBT people? I could happen to you tomorrow wonderman.

  • enlightened.bowman - 2012-11-01 07:33

    eeehh? Jaco the inquisitor!! What would you suggest as a deterrent: re introduction of the pear of anguish?

  • nqubeko.dube.9 - 2012-11-01 08:07

    No matter what; homophobia and racism wil neva end.Ignorant ppl wil always b in favour to these kinds of discriminati0ns and continue throwing misleadin notions to gain support. We cant say we live in a democratic country when such incidents take place.its quite sad.

      james.hurley.1401 - 2012-11-01 13:26

      heke! uyathetha inyani

  • gavin.allchurch1 - 2012-11-01 08:23

    Unfortunately society will generally always be intolerant to a certain degree. Those that stand out will attract aggression. I find it strange that "educated " or "trying to be educated " folk are so intolerant.However, bear in mind that those who do exhibit this violent behaviour have a degree of uncertainty in their own mind of their sexuality. The few people that I know who are gay are pretty decent people with the same daily problems that everybody else has.....only maturity brings this perspective.... so, you will never change this reaction from the young... its an insecurity issue...

  • Chris - 2012-11-01 09:16

    University culture is awful in South Africa, nuke cats in KZN, wreck campuses, the list is endless..............

  • melinda.botha.75 - 2012-11-01 09:28

    NO ONE CAN JUDGE THAT'S GOD'S WORK

      Sunshine- - 2012-11-01 21:13

      Tell that to the Christians.

  • Billy - 2012-11-01 10:24

    yea.. the whole story please...?

  • rohann.olivier.1 - 2012-11-01 10:39

    What I don't understand is the article says they attacked HER but the incident occured after the visited the MENS toilets.

  • Khetha Hlophe - 2012-11-01 10:57

    A lot has been taken away from us (males) includes,emancipation of women,gender equlity, clothes etc. Now our toilets too,no ways that's the onlything we still own exclusively.\r\nStop provoking us pls

      LanfearM - 2012-11-01 11:41

      What has been taken away from you? Because women are emancipated and can now get an education, have a career, choose when and who to marry, choose if and when they want children, wear what they like, and make their own decisions? Because of this you think that a "lot has been taken away from you males"? What exactly was taken from you Khetha? The "right" to beat your wife? The "right" to order her around and tell her how to live? The "right" to rape her [or any other woman for that matter] when you are in the mood for sex? The "right" to deny her an education, a career, a life of her choosing? I have been in pubs and restaurants that have unisex toilets these days. Nothing wrong with it. Stop provoking you? Now that is threat if ever I heard one. So women [and gays by default] should stop provoking you by having equal rights to you? You are taking away from yourself with your attitude, nobody else is doing it but you.

      nervern - 2012-11-01 21:09

      Damn dude if u are a student at udubs pls kill urself...! Ur vrek duh really

  • jason.simpson.714655 - 2012-11-01 18:57

    Any violence is unacceptable. Although sometimes queens can be a little overwhelming. Everyone needs to check there behaviour a bit when in a public space. Maybe a gay-card being pulled here. The queens got drunk and acted like trash and some okes got annoyed and smacked them around a bit?

      fanie.gerber1972 - 2012-11-01 19:55

      I agree with your analysis

      james.hurley.1401 - 2012-11-01 20:59

      'The queens got drunk and acted like trash and some okes got annoyed and smacked them around a bit' - this is at odds with your 'any violence is unacceptable'; you minimize the issue by making it sound like an innocuous bit of fun. I've seen a lot more trashed 'okes' than I've seen trashed 'queens', but I don't see any gay people beating Them up, no matter how obnoxious they are being.

      jason.simpson.714655 - 2012-11-02 08:55

      @james. My point is guys get beaten up in clubs all the time. It is unacceptable. It may have had nothing to do with them being gay. Maybe they were just really annoying.

      james.hurley.1401 - 2012-11-02 10:11

      @jason what you fail to understand is that 'guys getting beaten up all the time' IS often for drunk and aggressive behaviour, whereas gay people getting beaten up for being gay is common. In Limpopo province recently a guy was decapitated because he was considered too effeminate. You're right, it may certainly have nothing to do with the people being gay, as the article said that the person attacked was transgendered - this is not the same thing as being gay, so your labeling the person a 'queen' is erroneous.

  • bjambaya1 - 2012-11-02 09:14

    l was there when the insult started and the bouncer and the owner of the pub tried to protected them.

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