Govt only listens to violence - claim

2012-11-16 07:23

Johannesburg - The government came under fire at an e-tolls hearing in Johannesburg on Thursday, with the public accusing it of paying attention only when there is violence.

"You are using scare tactics to get us to agree to e-tolls. Government never takes people seriously except when tyres are burnt and cars stoned," a resident told representatives of the department of transport and the SA National Roads Agency Limited [Sanral] at the public hearing in Sunninghill.

Last month, the government and Sanral announced new tariffs for the e-tolling of Gauteng's freeways.

The announcement, made on October 26, marked the beginning of a 30-day public consultation process, after which Transport Minister Ben Martins would have a fortnight to "apply his mind", followed by another fortnight to gazette the final tariffs.

This means e-tolls could come into effect four days before Christmas.

"You are going to see gantries on fire and highways stoned because you do not listen," another resident told the hearing.

Residents said they would do everything they could to oppose the e-tolls.

"We will protest, revolt and even sleep on the freeways to show our anger."

National Treasury representative Marissa Moore said there was a R150bn backlog on road maintenance, and that the government had borrowed money to invest in and implement e-tolls.

"The system is meant to lessen congestion on the freeways by charging a fee for usage.

"The aim is to get people into the public road system," she said.

  • nicolas.gombert.16 - 2012-11-16 07:35

    Indeed! If you have preached and practised violence since 1976, it IS the ONLY language you will understand. Remember Winnie with her "tyres, petrol and matches we will rule the townships"? Why are taxis excluded from paying toll fees? Because that is exactly what is going to happen and government is too scared of them to make them pay toll fees.

      Alan - 2012-11-16 10:05

      Actually most of the taxis are owned by Government Employees and they don't want to pay the toll fees either.

      Montagnes.Bleues - 2012-11-16 10:07

      winnie? Bad Smell already about this ANC story and worse in the eToll story where citizens pay 15 times over for something they already paid for. ANC priced itself out of the market by 40,000% years ago. BUT it's in line with teh equally Smelly luxury ANC jet story by the "Black Hole" Lice, Ticks and Fleas we believe Sisulu and Almost touches the ANC story of 'Data Capturers' earning R700.00 per hour -

      rob.gunning.1 - 2012-11-16 13:59

      I agree 100% about the taxi comment. Government only listens to violence. When you try to use the correct channels your concerns fall on deaf ears.

  • andre.c.79 - 2012-11-16 07:36

    Next I'm going to have a toll to go to the bathroom.

      Msika - 2012-11-16 07:48

      You already do. This Govt makes us pay for everything these days. You pay the municipality for taking a crap.

      peter.j.cock - 2012-11-16 09:40

      And they want smokers to get a liscence?????

      kenpeg.dawson - 2012-11-16 12:44

      They will toll you per 100g

  • sheamus.drager - 2012-11-16 07:37

    "The system is meant to lessen congestion on the freeways by charging a fee for usage. "The aim is to get people into the public road system," she said. So by this definition: once they finish building my shiny new Olympic size swimming pool, I'm going to go and swim in the fish pond. You do not build a new highway, so that people DON'T drive on it. FFS. This is all about making money. The debt will be paid off in a few years and then it's pure gravy train.

      Jenny - 2012-11-16 08:23

      Lol - and these people actually think that everyone is going to beleive this crap!

      omge.klits - 2012-11-16 08:36

      sheamus - please stop using the term "freeways" - they have now been stolen by government. Any sharp disaffected litigators around that want to "ask" government to replace the previous freeways built by the public, which Government has now unilaterally removed.????

      BigChiefPlumbPudding - 2012-11-16 09:55

      No logic in their argument at all - usually the case when there is foul play at hand.

  • Dean - 2012-11-16 07:37

    This might be taken the wrong way, but I almost cannot wait for the e-tolls to be implemented... Why? Because I can't wait to see them suffer trying to collect the fees. The non-compliance will be biblical. They're refusing to listen to the people.

      nosiphom.mazibuko - 2012-11-16 08:29

      If we all do what is right, i.e no e-tags. The only reason they want us to buy e-tags and entice us with discounts is to be able to collect. If you have an e-tag, you have a problem. If you do not have an e-tag, they have a problem - they mudt look for you and find you! Such a system works only if people voluntee to pay, if you do not volonteer, the problem is theirs - hence they are pleading with thos coming from other provinces to pleas buy day passes - because if they dont' SANRAL has the job of collecting from them - using more money ythatn they will get if the person indeed decides to pay at last. Same with the AARTO rubbish - 50% discount if you pay in 30 days, so rush and pay.

  • jabumokoena.c.7 - 2012-11-16 07:38

    Banana land Gwavamend .

  • Msika - 2012-11-16 07:43


  • lostwithinsanity - 2012-11-16 07:43

    I'll support the burning and physical destruction of the e-toll system... Watch your backs SANRAL and Expect us.

  • altus.kirsten - 2012-11-16 07:44

    All cultures will unite against government. Zuma will have a glimpse of things to come. Start stocking that bunker.

  • herman.kramer.988 - 2012-11-16 07:46

    That's not an accusation, that's the truth!

  • vicki.malatse - 2012-11-16 07:48

    As SA we need to stand together as white,black,green,blue and orange.This is a test for the working and middle class.Let's show this idiots we are the goverment,we've been bullied for too long now by few individuals#united we stand

      BigChiefPlumbPudding - 2012-11-16 10:26

      100%. Whatever your personal political belief may be, at some point government must start to understand we are not their subjects. They do not rule over us they are supposed to serve us. A democratic government is not supposed to act like they're ruling over their Kingdom. It's absolutely unacceptable.

  • canna.discussions - 2012-11-16 07:49

    Its sad that violence is the first and seemingly only answer. At some point democratic maturity needs to occur.

      tw2066 - 2012-11-16 12:16

      Huh? Thumbs down for your comment? Why? Your comment makes good sense...must be the ANC cadres who don't want to become mature??

  • ben.pieters.9 - 2012-11-16 07:50

    An aspect which has received little attention, is the complete lack of response from the JHB and Tswane Metro's on the matter of e-tolling. A significant increase of vehicles using residential areas to drive thru in order to by-pass the toll roads, will definitely increase the cost of maintenance and road traffic management tasks for these Metro's, which the ratepayers ultimately will have to pay for.

  • Michael Olivier - 2012-11-16 07:50

    as easy as 1,2,3 people,so buy one taxi and register it on the system and drive it to work and back again,finish en klaar...if that is a way forward to by pass the system,y not...

      thabiso.modiga - 2012-11-16 08:07

      Based on the cost versus benefit principle, buying a taxi doesn't seem like a great idea. I do however see where you are coming from. Personally I don't have a problem being a citizen that obeys the laws of our country but I do have a problem with the level of corruption that is plaguing our government. We often hear how much sars has exceeded their revenues in collecting taxes, such should be used to pay for the debt incurred to build and maintain freeways. SANRAL could have used that \R200 million\ used to fund a certain project that shall remain nameless!

  • sthembiso.jali.50 - 2012-11-16 07:51

    I told yha. The sooner we blow up those e-toll structures the better.

      kenpeg.dawson - 2012-11-16 08:39

      Anybody got some buddies in Ventersdorp who can assist in this task.

  • werner.dippenaar.77 - 2012-11-16 07:53

    burn the streets, burn the buildings, burn everything, it is about time the ape school learns.

      jannie.beirowski - 2012-11-16 08:23

      Dont't try to convince the government by burning roads and buildings, because then the e-toll structure will still be there. Burn the e-toll structure, then they cannot implement the charges. Then we don't have to convince anyone, won't lose workdays while toi-toiing for weeks on end or be at risk to be shot for a long period. KIS - Keep it simple.

      Michael - 2012-11-16 12:17

      Stop with the goddamn ape thing already??

  • nico.mulder.395 - 2012-11-16 07:58

    This is were the Nation will come together and say enough is enough. Sabotage and burn these gates, don't give in to these goverment thugs.

      charlesbronson.bronson - 2012-11-16 08:09

      I will be there!!!

      steve.ritchie.739 - 2012-11-16 11:05

      Bring in Chuck Norris

  • matthews.magodiela - 2012-11-16 08:00

    It seems we were better off in egypt. ANC Government is doing nothing to improve the lives of South African People. The only things they are concerned about is to pocket our hard earned money for their own families. Doesn't care about an average working class who are already frustrated about the income inequality that already exist, high fuel prices and high food prices. The poor are going to be negatively affected as the e-toll payment is going to be shifted to the ordinary passengers who are struggling to reach their end meets. I think it would be great if the public hearing can also allow people to post their opinion through free sms to allow all citizens to participate.

      charlesbronson.bronson - 2012-11-16 08:10

      This useless government does not know what is waiting for them when we unite!!!

  • charmaine.mcdonald2 - 2012-11-16 08:10

    The comments below says it all. Our government only wants to make money

  • thomas.more.946179 - 2012-11-16 08:10

    I read all these people comments and get worried. The government is pushing the public in a corner who can't afford this luxury any more, we all know the most dangerous animal is the one that is cornered and threatened. People voice their opinions and concerns and government is just pushing them in a tighter corner. Once the middle class had enough and stands together the dam wall will burst and government wont be able to stop this, because people will then realise and believe in themselves and in the power they actually have.

  • ricardo.fredericks.1 - 2012-11-16 08:12

    An accurate view of the public. E Toll's are NOT going to happen in Gauteng or on any national roads for that matter. This article clearly states why and im all for it. It's time Government listens or feels!

  • andre.mostert - 2012-11-16 08:13

    mmmm f(*&^(*& you i WONT PAY

  • tristan.laggerway - 2012-11-16 08:13

    We should start an e-toll system that targets the idiots in government. If you are stupid and you lack intelligence then you should be tolled. We can call it stupidity-toll, the government will probably have to take out another loan to pay off the debt they make for themselves. That would make more sense then this.

  • chiepner - 2012-11-16 08:15

    Okay - I live in Springs. I need to go to a client in JHB. The public transport I can take is either the train or a taxi. Now trains has got a weird way of just being totally unreliable and even traveling on them sometimes can be very dangerous as sometimes we have criminal elements lurking around them waiting to prey on the general public. Taxis will take long as from here to JHB they will stop almost every 200 meter picking and droping commuters. That said - its a dangerous manner of transport as most of these vehicles are basicly coffins on wheels. So my options are limited. I need to see my client at 9 this morning. So I am forced to climb into my car and take the road. N17 is faster with 2 toll gates lurking - the N12 now has a handfull of gantries waiting to tax me. So - if government wants to force me to use public transport I kind of have a problem with that because good reliable public transport does not exist where I am. Which means that argument of installing Gantries between Springs & JHB just does not hold water. Which also means that in the future I will have to start thinking of charging my clients a call out fee to cover all these extra costs the e-toll system will put on me. This will eventually not be possible as my clients will rather use someone who does not impose such a fee on them. I will lose work, which inturn means I would have to cut my workforce to try and keep costs down. So e tolls would put strain on my already taxed to death bussiness.

      chiepner - 2012-11-16 08:27

      So in short - e tolls puts strain on small and meduim enterprises. It will have the effect of pushing the cost of living up, it would also mean we can assume that if this comes into effect we will see strikes in the municipal, mining and agricultural sectors again because even with recent salary adjustments the majority of these workers will just be forced to again part with their hard earned money to a bottomless unaccountable system which will in less that 2 years time double the rates of tolls that is for sure. So instead of lifting the economy our government decided to supress it. All becuase of some greedy minister or politician or even higher up like our esteemed uncorrupted President has got a hand in this entire thing. The ANC has become extremely arrogant in their manner of thinking and needs to see all these instability (no Mr Pres the country is not stable at the moment) as n precurser to bigger things to come. If the people of this country keeps on coming second to the intrest of one party and the elite few on top I am afraid sooner or later we might even witness JZ's Nkandla being burned to the ground. This is not impossible because more and more people are starting to become listless, the youth are getting fed up and sooner or later will rise against the tyranny of the current self obsessed vain so called leaders. PEOPLE first ANC. Peoples always needs to come first before profits or underhand corruption or this might just be the signal of your imminent downfall

      nosiphom.mazibuko - 2012-11-16 08:31

      Let them try to collect from you - don't buy and e-tag!

      tw2066 - 2012-11-16 12:18

      Don't worry about seeing clients, the BBBEE codes will kill the economy anyway.

  • warwick.railton.7 - 2012-11-16 08:15

    If you can't beat them.............join them. Burn sanral to the ground.

  • marc.a.webb.14 - 2012-11-16 08:18

    Not going to happen SCAMRAL I simply will not pay to drive on roads that have been paid for over and over and line the pockets of the corrupt...The biggest mistake the SCAMRAL/CANCER alliance has made is to fleece our pockets.More and more people simply cannot keep up with the cost of services and they are not provided ie; local muncipalities where the upkeep of the town/city is simply not done drive through Brakpan,Boksburg and one can see the decay.The bottom line is we demand to see our taxes being put to use for their intent purpose of upkeep and service and not flash cars over the top functions.

  • paul.malherbe.7 - 2012-11-16 08:18

    one thing that never ceases to amaze me is the amount of ignorant folks out there that still think(hoping) this regime is serious about addressing crime, violence and the likes. Can someone out there please tell by which method did the current regime plan to "liberate" this country? Answer: VIOLENCE! It's in their genes, look at the rest of this continent, they r unable to SIT AROUND A TABLE AND PEACEFULLY DISCUSS MATTERS. SO WHY WOULD THIS REGIME TAKE NOTICE of THE MASSES REVERTING TO VIOLENCE?

  • breinlekkasie.dodelikegif - 2012-11-16 08:21

    Strip the damn things and sell the parts to help the poor.

      kenpeg.dawson - 2012-11-16 08:41

      By the way what is the going price on scrap metal.

  • kasper.mbayi2 - 2012-11-16 08:22

    The violence is the best sound to deaf ears of this cruel government.

  • denton.estment - 2012-11-16 08:26

    The report that there is a backlog of R150bn on road maintanance. The perenial question: What happens to the tax on petrol that is supposed to be ringfenced for roads????? Whos back pocket has it gone to?????

      kevan.stuart - 2012-11-16 13:13

      Apparently most of the tax on petrol goes to propping up the Road Accident Fund. "The RAF provides compulsory cover to all users of South African roads, citizens and foreigners, against injuries sustained or death arising from accidents involving motor vehicles within the borders of South Africa." ( But I doubt it.

  • francois.grobler - 2012-11-16 08:28

    I'm moving to Durban so I wont get to fight this corrupt system with my fellow Joburgers. Please don't back down don't let them walk all over you! Good luck - I am with you.

      flysouth - 2012-11-16 08:46

      Not so - you will simply have to fight it a little later, since SANRAL has already told us that they will roll out the system across the land after it has been established in Gauteng. This fight is EVERYBODY'S!

  • kenpeg.dawson - 2012-11-16 08:37

    They got into power by violence, They rule by violence, They try enforce their way by violence, The incite their supporters to use voilence, WTF do they expect from us?

      kenpeg.dawson - 2012-11-16 09:56

      Sipho May God give give me the ability to punch an idiot over the internet.

      kenpeg.dawson - 2012-11-16 15:29

      Sipho withdrew his comment. Bwhaaaaaaaa haaa haaaa

  • aroka.murombe - 2012-11-16 08:38

    If they can pay 2.7m for zuma to build his castle simple means they can also pay this sanral body his incurred expenses nd f##k off.. Any way hu is this sanral

      kevan.stuart - 2012-11-16 13:17

      You're a little low on cost - apparently it's R268million for Zuma's palace. SANRAL is the South Africa National Roads Agency Limited and is a private company that the government has "appointed" through tender to "manage" South Africa's road infrastructure.

  • andre.vanhuyssteen.31 - 2012-11-16 08:39

    It seems that the world's biggest street braai is coming up.

  • flysouth - 2012-11-16 08:43

    I was at the meeting at Sunninghill last night - perhaps that should be 'bunfight' - with about 300 others. SANRAL and company arrived intending that we should sit and listen, like good schoolkids while they droned on through their Powerpoint slides to show us the great 'benefits' for us of their grand plan! Nazir Allie was visible not at the meeting but only before the meeting started, outside the doors talking to another man and the only high-level SANRAL exec on the podium was Alex Van Niekerk who is I think their MD. On the agenda handed out Q&A was Item #4 of 5 - very early on we changed that when one person stood up whilst one SANRAL speaker was in mid stride to tell them we were not there to listen to their nonsense - we were there to tell them our views! From that point the meeting became very, very rowdy, with questions and statements from the floor all very antagonistic towards SANRAL and the entire tolling plan. The lady from Treasury tried to tell us of the superb benefits to be had from paying to use roads which we have never paid for - poor girl, she was bombarded with insults and people were shouting at the tops of their voices - sheer pandemonium! SANRAL was asked by people why they had not scheduled any such meetings in Soweto, Tembisa etc etc - no answers forthcoming there! The atmosphere was thick with anger throughout the meeting.

      flysouth - 2012-11-16 08:44

      We were told that the fundamental reason why tolls are necessary is that the roads are too congested and this costs billions annually - tolling the roads is intended to remove traffic from the highways! WTF!!! This one almost brought the roof down, such was the abuse hurled! 2 guys in red shirts from COSATU told SANRAL that since SANRAL has failed to listen to the people, then the final recourse would be to foment civil disobedience and block the roads when tolling is introduced. I was trying for quite a while to grab the attention of the MC of the meeting but he seemed to want to ignore me - I therefore hijacked the microphone being moved around to audience members by attendants in order to have my say. I reckon the MC had noticed me heckling very loudly and wanted to exclude me - no way, jose! Once I had the mike I told him the the next item on the agenda was ME! Phukcer wasn't happy, what could he do? The boss of the Automobile Association was there handing out 'No Toll' bumper stickers and Wayne Duvenhage from OUTA was also there.

      flysouth - 2012-11-16 08:44

      SANRAL lied many times throughout this meeting on various issues - claiming for example that 500 000 e-tags have been sold. They however stonewalled when asked what percentage compliance is needed to make the system work. They tried to say at one point that e-tags are NOT the very foundation of the system. Good news, let's all then demand paper invoices by registered post! All in all that meeting and probably the ones beforehand must have informed SANRAL and their sole shareholder, the government, that they have a massive fight on their hands.There was not a single person present who was not vehemently and angrily against SANRAL's plan. The most appalling thing of course is that they are prepared to enter that conflict against their own citizens. Like the lack of rationale which we saw in the massively corrupt and hugely damaging Arms Deal to purchase superfluous and unaffordable weaponry, this latest plan also lacks rationale in the extreme - and one has to ask of government, "why go ahead with it when it has massive potential to cause huge resentment, great conflict and ultimately yet more civil unrest with attendant violence and blood"?

      NkandlaSpearshaker - 2012-11-16 10:47

      Thanks Flysouth for this report. I don't live in Gauteng but I admire you guys for putting up the good fight. It's heading our way, I am sure.The point is that all good South Africans across the country are now - like the Gautengers - considering violent and unlawful means to fight and oppose a non-caring and irresponsible government hell bent on fleecing us where ever they can and using our tax money to fight us! And they lie, cajole, trick and use all kinds of devious means to force us into a situation where we do not want to be which we oppose. Democracy and fair play don't work any longer so the next step appears to be civil disobedience and even militant violence. And the government is to be blamed for this and deserves what's coming their way. Thanks for fighting the good fight to you and OUTA! We support you all the way!

  • beverley.dormer.3 - 2012-11-16 08:45

    This hearing was a farce. The panelists did not listen to those of us who stood up to speak. When directly confronted on the implications of the e-tolls (loss of jobs, knock-on price effect, etc) Marissa Moore actually said "then the POOR should not use the roads". Further, when asked why no one was addressing the fact that people are angry, and that this is a problem, Miss Moore went on to say "This is not a problem. The problem is that there are teachers who need to cross rivers to get to school in the Eastern Cape".

  • kasper.mbayi2 - 2012-11-16 08:54

    If we don't kick off this ANC government we will always cry like this. I'm so suprise to hear some South Africans still believe to vote for other ANC members to be president.

  • haroldcecil - 2012-11-16 08:55

    Jacob and his goverment is the only goverment that I no of thats doing everything in their powers to make their country ungovernable by not listening 2 their people's needs

  • edwin.morena.3 - 2012-11-16 08:55

    SCAMRAL should ERECT gantries at each of ANC officials driveways including Zumaville/Nkandla compound, so that they 2 can feel the costs.

  • nicholas.marais.3 - 2012-11-16 08:57

    If they had any common sens they would have spend the money on decent public transport instead. That would have created way more jobs, eased traffic flow, and the profits could have been used for road maintenance. Also, the more jobs there is the better the economy will do and the more tax Government will get. But no. As there's no decent public transport, people are forced to drive themselves and as such makes an easy target for E-Tolls. Our tax has always been enough to pay for roads. Suddenly it isn't and the simple reason is that there are people in power stealing our tax money.

  • Forgotten - 2012-11-16 08:58

    We must stand up for what is right!!! We don't need to help this corrupt government get out of their dept!!! COME ON GUYS!! All South Africans!!! Lets stop this crap!!!

  • Michelle Hellyer - 2012-11-16 09:11

    they say they want us to use public which universe do they live and think that its reliable to get us to work ON TIME (not african time)if at all and how much time and money will we then have to fork out for all the different ones we'll have to catch just to get to work as not only one will get you to where you have to be!And how on earth can they say the POOr should not use the highway if they cant afford it.Thats maybe their only way to earn their meagre pay that you will tax anyway!!!

  • kasper.mbayi2 - 2012-11-16 09:15

    Why these hearings are only at night?

      kenpeg.dawson - 2012-11-16 09:57

      They dont let the idiots out during the day.

  • Bongeka - 2012-11-16 09:19

    I'm against violence and I live in Durban. But in a situation like this I say YES \violence is the languege of the unheard\ so go for it. And good luck our brothers and sisters from Joburg, go for it, we're behind you all the way.

      kasper.mbayi2 - 2012-11-16 09:26

      We thank you Bongeka for support we hope God will be our side

      Michael - 2012-11-16 12:27

      With all due respect i believe that to be a slippery slope...

      kenpeg.dawson - 2012-11-16 12:47

      Thanks Bongeka we need all the support we can get to defeat the cANCer.

  • Dane.Billionaire.Prinsloo - 2012-11-16 09:22

    Why dont they take the money for Zuma Ville and pay for the roads? That money is our money anyways? Why do we have to constantly fork out cash for the Governments stupidity? If all the members of parliament can upgrade their houses for hundreds of millions of rands then where the hell is the money going and where will our e-tolling money be going cause i can guarantee all of you it wont be going to that massive amount of dept that the ANC has accumulated for the roads. So yes, this coming from someone who doesnt live in JHB it really is time to stand together and stop this madness and i think if we can achieve this, then SA and all of its citizens black, white, yellow and orange Viki Malatse said will realize that we can actually achieve greatness when we all stand together as one unified country. STOP THE MADNESS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

  • jacques.kilian.7 - 2012-11-16 09:29

    Tell people no vote for ANC on sign for e toll say no ANC and e toll

  • kenny.kwenamore - 2012-11-16 09:31

    The "aim" s to get people into public transport system - Show us that efficient and reliable mass public transport system and we will park our cars and use it

  • BigChiefPlumbPudding - 2012-11-16 09:59

    On the positive side, I'm very excited to see so many South Africans stand together for once, instead of the 'blind loyalty' we usually see given to the ANC. Good - people are really starting to ask the right questions, and it seems they don't like the answers. A very encouraging sign.

  • frank.m.khumalo - 2012-11-16 10:07

    Violence, the most understood language in SA in fact in Africa. Battle are not fought and won in boadrooms but in the streets. Lets get to the streets and toyi toyi.Lace the the toi toy with a bit of violence, you will see the results comming very quickly, etolls are a rip off. Lets unite against this monster. We pay taxes, and even vat as consumers, whats next , looks like they want our blood

  • victor.mendes1 - 2012-11-16 10:15

    I am liking the fact that the public Black, White, Indian, Coloured and Asian are standing together for this. That's the irony of the anc who always uses the race card to hide their ongoing abuse of public trust and funds, that they uniting us with their ongoing arrogance and e-tolls.

  • annamaria.flanegan - 2012-11-16 10:47

    Exactly HOW MUCH MONEY DO the ANC get from all the toll gates/ With some tolls up R165 for big trucks I would love to know... Vehicles flow past these gates at a very continuous rate? An ongoing source of income: How much? Do they really still need an e-toll system as well? I doubt it... I think the ANC is just getting far too greedy.