Gun Free SA calls for firearm licence audit

2013-02-05 22:28

Johannesburg - A probe into a former Gauteng police brigadier over alleged firearm licences corruption underlines the need for a forensic audit, Gun Free SA said on Tuesday.

Spokesperson Adele Kirsten said such an audit should include all firearm licences issued in the past few years.

"We have no confidence in the registry and are critical, especially over the last two to three years, of whether all those [who received licences] actually fit the criteria," she said.

It was reports on Tuesday that former police brigadier Stephen Choshi was being investigated.

He worked for the central firearms registry until February 2011 when he was reportedly appointed as acting commander of the Roodepoort police station.

He served there until his resignation.

He allegedly continued to grant Section 21 permits for firearms while working in Roodepoort.

Kirsten said it was clear there were problems in the process of issuing licences, which put South Africans in danger.

"It's clear that there are problems and what this means is that all of us, those who are not armed, are not safe.

"It's also clear that procedures are not followed... It's a bit like a driver's [licence] except this is a lethal weapon," said Kirsten.

  • Die.Gemaskerde.Kussing - 2013-02-05 22:40

    In a society where guns are outlawed, only the outlaws will have guns.

      chris.maakal - 2013-02-05 23:00

      Who are the "gun free south africa" group? Google search only brings up books Adele wants to sell... the website "" don't even list the surname of officials. No office. Only telephone numbers and a postal address. How many people do this group represent?

      charlesbronson.bronson - 2013-02-05 23:52

      Morons, please make sure you get the memo to the criminals and all the unlicensed holders to ask then also be part of your audit!

      hein.huyser - 2013-02-06 06:28

      Kussings, guns don't kill people, people do. Nowhere in the world is crime so infrequent where citizens can protect themselves free from persecution when defending their lives and property, and nowhete in the world is a dictator to be found when enough citizens are armed to protect themselves from tyrany. And so by the way, up yours gun free, just because one driver licence official have been found guilty of fraud will result in us wadting days in qeues, and when an official from home affairs do something wrong we must renew our id's, same for gun licences. Morons doing nothing for a living will ask for such a thing

      simphiwe.charlie.5 - 2013-02-06 06:44

      Guns are made to kill people, killing people is a cardinal sin. Ban the Gun!

      paddy.carolan.35 - 2013-02-06 06:56

      Kussing, not only will the outlaws be the only ones with guns. The police will have them as well. And they lose more guns than anyone else on the planet. But then again, they could qualify as outlaws....

      mathata.fela.7 - 2013-02-06 07:14

      @simphiwe.charlie.5, remember your own words while the criminals that broke into your house is raping your wife....

      jak.keyter - 2013-02-06 07:21

      With guns, we are citizens. Without them, we are subjects. "In 1929, the Soviet Union established gun control. From 1929 to 1953, about 20 million dissidents, unable to defend themselves, were rounded up and exterminated."In 1911, Turkey established gun control. From 1915 to 1917, 1.5 million Armenians, unable to defend themselves, were rounded up and exterminated."Germany established gun control in 1938 and from 1939 to 1945,13 million Jews and others who were unable to defend themselves were rounded up and exterminated."China established gun control in 1935. From 1948 to 1952, 20 million political dissidents, unable to defend themselves, were rounded up and exterminated."Guatemala established gun control in 1964. From 1964 to 1981, 100,000 Mayan Indians, unable to defend themselves, were rounded up and exterminated."Uganda established gun control in 1970. From 1971 to 1979, 300,000 Christians, unable to defend themselves, were rounded up and exterminated."Cambodia established gun control in 1956. From 1975 to 1977, one million 'educated' people, unable to defend themselves, were rounded up and exterminated."Defenseless people rounded up and exterminated in the 20th Century because of gun control: 56 million.The next time someone talks in favor of gun control, ask them "Who Do YOU want to round up and exterminate?"

      andre.vandeventer.16 - 2013-02-06 07:23

      I have always contended that some high ranking police members were aiding and abetting criminals because they are themselves!

      andre.vandeventer.16 - 2013-02-06 07:25

      Ban vehicles on the road as well because in the wrong hands they also kill!

      pick.afinga - 2013-02-06 07:35

      @simphiwe.charlie You are confusing "killing" with "murder". Do you honestly believe that killing in self defence or in defence of those around you is a sin?

      rodney.overes - 2013-02-06 08:20

      Guns don't kill people, its some arsh@le that uses a gun. 99,9% of legal gun owners have not killed anyone!

      flysouth - 2013-02-06 09:18

      @chris.makal GFSA represents nobody. It has no membership. It is one of 700 or so NGOs set up and funded, in it's early days and perhaps now, by the UN as part of their global campaign against guns which began in about 1999.Funding has also come from the likes of George Soros, a convicted criminal and a billionaire. It has had the ear of the SA government since the government is a signatory to the campaign to remove guns from civilian hands. A state monopoly of force is sought by the UN and by all governments who sign up to it, under the guise of 'public safety' by reducing arms in civilian ownership - to NIL! GFSA had a great deal to do with influencing government to adopt the draconian Firearms Control Act of 2000 which has disarmed approx. 40% of all previous legitimate owners in SA.

      Buzzbar - 2013-02-06 12:48

      As i've always maintained, if the members of GFSA are such ardent followers of their cause then why don't they put up signs outside their houses saying their are no firearms on the premises? - 2013-02-09 00:00

      A bunch of hired propagandists working fir anti-social and oppressive agenda that have no known use to anyone. Only an insane person would think you can legislate criminals and the deranged into better behaviour. Or believe an inanimate object is responsible for killing anyone. Of all objects on this earth guns are the only ones which can preform magic and have a mind and will of their own in many fools minds. If these fruit cakes have their way we will be putting guns on trial for murder and letting the perpetrators go. It was not their fault. The gun did it.

      Andreas Meyer - 2014-03-18 14:28

      It would be better, if they'd audit GFSA.

  • bob.small.7547 - 2013-02-05 22:42

    And a car is not a lethal weapon in the hands of a driver with a bought license??????

      ChasePotch - 2013-02-06 06:13

      Being in a car accident doesn't mean that you were murdered. I would rather die in a car crash than being shot and killed at my home.

      paddy.carolan.35 - 2013-02-06 06:53

      How would you know the difference if you are dead?

      rodney.overes - 2013-02-06 08:28

      Curriemaffia, Guns don't kill people, its some arsh@le that uses a gun. 99,9% of legal gun owners have not killed anyone! The sole purpose of a firearm is to defend not injure or kill. But as your name states you want the people to be defenseless when you rob them.

      Buzzbar - 2013-02-06 12:52

      Ok then currie and robin, why not put up a sign outside your house stating that you are anti firearms and do not have one on the property. Go on, put your money where your mouth is.

      Buzzbar - 2013-02-06 16:31

      Oh, and don't forget to cancel that armed response. You wouldn't want to rely on another mans gun...

  • piet.snot.77964 - 2013-02-05 22:54

    "It's clear that there are problems and what this means is that all of us, those who are not armed, are not safe." Yes - if you are not armed you are sadly not safe - even those who have been waiting for licences for a very long time - their firearms are still at the gun shops. Adele many thanks for your comment above you are now agreeing and admitting that those of us who have firearms are safe - that is why I applied for a licence for a firearm - to be safe.

      croix.mactee - 2013-02-06 09:47

      Exactly Piet, EXACTLY. Good post

      SaintBruce Bruce - 2013-11-06 10:29

      The unasked question is : What is the purpose of such an audit and WHO gets the information [the names, addresses and number of firearms per person]? What is the objective of such an audit ? To confirm the Corrupt SAPS still know where every gun is in the country - but if they are selling the surrendered guns back into the criminal underworld and 'losing' their own issued guns [which tax payers pay to replace] to the same then why should any citizen ever want to be unarmed? The case for gun free SA has no relevance to anything to do with crime control - that is a myth.

  • chere.nienaber - 2013-02-05 23:02

    The problem here is NOT the people with licenses, it's the ones that don't have... Criminals in SA have more rights than the victim, so 'protecting' yourself from danger (even if you're licensed), you need to understand the string of protections that the criminal have!

  • jimmy.walls.90 - 2013-02-05 23:03

    Pleeze. Chase the ILLEGAL guns. If you can. This Adele Kirsten is an idiot. You can't fish for fresh snoek in the Vall dam.

  • craig.s.pepper - 2013-02-05 23:12

    This Ignorant stupid person will try anything to get weapons away from Legal firearm owners.

      allstar.scotts - 2013-02-06 08:15

      The purpose of my firearm is self defence. To be able to protect my family. Had it out twice! Thankfully having it out was enough an I didn't have to use it. (while inside my own house on my own property)

  • zebedee.kok - 2013-02-05 23:16

    Spokes person Adele Kirsten from gun free sa said "It's clear that there are problems and what this means is that all of us, those who are not armed, are not safe. so why on earth would you work for gun free sa????? go get your self a gun!!!!!!!!! you said it yourself!!!!!

  • archangel.zerachiel - 2013-02-05 23:37

    Gun Free Who?? Oh yes, The Victim Disarmament Supporter that would leave potential victims at the mercey of criminals, armed or otherwise. A fart in the wind .. nobody listens to their PRO-CRIME RUBBISH anymore. They will seek attention like ghouls at every mishap or loss of life to criminal acts. Disgusting lot! **SIES**

      zebedee.kok - 2013-02-05 23:41

      Agreed, in a country where the national sports seems to be attacking the elderly, and here we have these a*&holes calling for a gunfree SA........WTF?

  • sally.lewitt - 2013-02-05 23:43

    And just HOW will this audit count the ILLIGAL firearms in this Gangsta's Paradise called South Africa you bunch of morons...? ffs

      allstar.scotts - 2013-02-06 08:18

      Well if they put Brigadier Stephen Choshi in charge of this

  • Ben S - 2013-02-06 00:03

    Murder is legal and that is the reason why owning a firearm is illegal.

  • jay.kganyago.5 - 2013-02-06 00:26

    Under Apartheid black ppl could not legally get guns, GunFree SA want us to return to those Apartheid days.

      nu_un_clear - 2013-02-06 00:41

      Yes, but only now they want the guns out of the white mans hands

      pick.afinga - 2013-02-06 07:37

      @JayKganyago Rubbish. Ever heard of 32 Battallion?

      flysouth - 2013-02-06 09:27

      You are incorrect. Between 1994 and 2004 when the FCA was finally promulgated no less than 1 million black people obtained firearms licences - as they should under a democratic dispensation. The previous Arms and Ammunition Act of 1969 did not contain any stipulation about the race of applicants but in practice few firearms were issued to blacks - all that changed but stopped in 2004. The FCA seeks to prohibit all of us, of any race, from having access to firearms. This fact was stated clearly and baldly in several meetings between representatives of firearms owners by Muleki George and others who were part of the committee tasked with creating and drafting the FCA. The FCA was promised as the solution to violent crime in SA - well, we know how after 8 years of this nonsensical law, just how well that worked out!

      Balloo - 2013-02-06 09:38

      @pick.afinga 32 battalion was a military unit with military supplied weapons. They were not allowed to use or possess any of these weapons in their civilian capacity as citizens of this country.

  • sanet.n.debeer - 2013-02-06 01:14

    It is just our clever government wanting as little as possible to fight against when the paw paw strikes the fan. And we all know this is in the very near future. If I owned a gun and was told to hand it in I certainly would NOT. They are working with a plan and we stupid asses fall for it.

  • TheBigTT - 2013-02-06 03:18

    Looks like somebody has been watching Obama on the news. How about leaving the 99.99% who are legal, responsible firearm owners alone? It's not their fault that the government has miserably failed at controlling the .01% who are commiting all the crime. Harassing legal gun owners is not the answer.

  • avoomu - 2013-02-06 04:28

    Indeed try and get a register of all licences issued, specially seeing that the A.N.C. appointed official issued 20,000 licences to known criminals! Guns Free S.A.: SUCK MY GLOCK!

  • - 2013-02-06 04:57

    It's a bit like a driver's [licence] except this is a lethal weapon, said Kirsten. Ummm if a driver's license is issued to an incompetent person a car can also be a dangerous if not moreso a lethal weapon. Next time a criminal breaks into your house tell him nicely to put his kniofe away so you can hit him over the head with your plastic teaspoon. - 2013-02-06 04:58

      Apologies for the typo. Its to be read as knife

  • ChasePotch - 2013-02-06 06:14

    Gun free SA so does that mean the police are gonna start tazing the criminals instead of shooting then. Don't bring a tazer to a gunfight.

  • ChasePotch - 2013-02-06 06:21

    And the few of you STOP COMPARING GUNS AND DRIVING, ffs the criminals doesn't find out your driving pattern everytime and wait for you and than drives at a stop speed into your car and hope that maybe you will die, car crashes are accident if the driver responsible were drunk or not, those animals with guns comes to your house to rob and kill, those aren't accidents.

      jack.ridl.9 - 2013-02-06 08:14

      A legally owned and operated firearm is no more lethal or likely to cause harm than a legally operated vehicle. Legally owned firearms are there for your protection or for sport. If operated correctly, there should be less chance of accidental death than can be expected from a motor vehicle, which are regularly involved in accidents. The only area where guns and driving can't be compared is that illegally owned cars are not often used to kill. Legally owned and operated firearms are an asset to the country - the government should be concentrating on illegal ones.

      allstar.scotts - 2013-02-06 08:21

      But if you had a firearm you could protect yourself.

  • Dennis - 2013-02-06 06:26

    I don't own a gun but the continual bleating of Gun Free SA is sickening. Bunch of pony tail mother grundies who have done nothing but irritate legal gun owners.

  • jurgens.liebenberg.5 - 2013-02-06 06:31

    What a load of hogwash,gun free South Africa!!! the only people who will eventually be gun free are the LEGAL and RESPONSIBLE owners who have been waiting (my wife is one of them) for a full year for a license, Kirsten, come back from lalla land and enter the real,corrupt,violent world of South Africa.

  • michael.demesmaeker - 2013-02-06 06:47

    A gun free South Africa? Please! Isn't that like saying a chicken free KFC. It'll never happen..

      koos.vandermerwe.75 - 2013-02-06 07:51

      I think I just heard half of the cANCer politicians collapse when you said “chicken free KFC”.

  • vandenberg.michael - 2013-02-06 06:54

    It is amazing that we still have idiots who want to disarm the good people of this country. Do they actually believe criminals won't get their hands on firearms? Are they disgruntled martial artists or what?

  • GrantE - 2013-02-06 06:57

    Gun free SA get the iligal guns of the street first and check on the cops that should not have a gun in the first place and then go to the legal gun owners, and by the way ban the taxis as more people are injuerd in taxis than by fire arms every day

  • zandernwn - 2013-02-06 06:59

    I suppose the flock will only realise how stupid gfsa is once all the good guys are disarmed! And they are left to fend themselves with sticks and stones against armed criminals... The only way to stop a bad guy with a gun is a good guy to have a gun! Get your heads out of your stupid holes, the world out there is technicoloured!

  • pick.afinga - 2013-02-06 07:33

    "It's clear that there are problems and what this means is that all of us, those who are not armed, are not safe." Perhaps the answer then, my dear Adele Kirsten, is to procure a firearm and become proficient in the use thereof, until such time that the police can guarantee your safety?

  • FrankAbercrombie - 2013-02-06 07:35

    Thanks Gun Free South Africa for stigmatising responsible gun owners once again. Maybe next time there is a 'firefight' between police and heavily armed robbers, you should intervene and ask the robbers for their gun licences, and how they got them (because you would like to run an audit).

  • raymond.lloyd.73 - 2013-02-06 07:48

    When Adele Kirsten or her family are victims of an armed crime I hope they tell the criminals they are in a gun free zone , see if that helps . Switzerland has a high rate of private firearm ownership but low crime is a 1 st world country though .

  • koos.vandermerwe.75 - 2013-02-06 07:58

    I for one can tell you that guns have saved me and my family more than once. Here is an idea, go audit the illegal weapons in criminal hands. I want to see a register of the type of firearm, the criminals address, a serial number (if it wasn't removed) and a list of criminal activities the firearm was used in. Now there is an audit that would be worth something.

  • ockie.fourie.16 - 2013-02-06 08:06

    Thanks for helping me to make up my mind. I will apply for a gun today.

  • arthur.salvado - 2013-02-06 08:12

    Payments were obviously made into someone's pocket. Don't think it involves more than 20m so it's Mickey mouse money in term of the amounts being stolen daily. So, for the amount, he must score 2,5 points. For the processing the stupid essential qualification he gets score of 5. Must deduct 2 points for resigning and not claiming to be innocent. So, stupid boy scored 5,5 points.

  • michael.pitt.100 - 2013-02-06 08:30

    Gun free SA what a joke !!

  • peter.cornelius.39 - 2013-02-06 08:46

    Saying guns kill people is like saying spoons make people fat...

  • toofaan.monsoon - 2013-02-06 08:53

    I've had a gun for 20 years. Never had to ever use it (luckily). The latest round of renewals was a joke and 2 years later I've not received notice on whether I'm still a legitimate gun owner. Even though I wish never to need it, I will never give it up, because the one night when some criminal breaks into my house I cannot bear the thought of not being able to defend my family. Go target the guns in criminal hands. If I lose someone because your idiotic campaign deprives me of my gun, I'll hold GFSA responsible. - 2013-02-27 16:36

      GFSA and Adele Kirsten are already responsible for thousands of deaths and rapes that could have been prevented if not for Firearm Control Act. GFSA is a NPO illegally funded by the ANC to promote their agendas

  • mark.groome - 2013-02-06 08:55

    We told you so!!! When GFSA pushed the Firearm Control Act, many, many legal gun owners told you it wouldn't work, but we jumped through the hoops anyway. Now you're admitting that what you pushed for is a load of garbage. The FCA has not had one iota of impact on the illegal guns in SA. Maybe you should stop trying to disarm the innocent, and put what little voice you have into disarming the guilty. Gun control isn't about guns, it's about control!!

  • shane.loxton - 2013-02-06 08:58

    More people die at the hands of doctors and motorists than by firearms

  • johan.syffert - 2013-02-06 09:06

    Why are you people so focused on guns? What about slingshots, crossbows, knifes, harpoons, swords, bows ect. Anyone of these can be leathal and you don't need a licence for it.

  • kseyffert - 2013-02-06 09:07

    Really! Can't shut down firearm ownership so change tactics. Sorry fun free S.A. it is simply impossible to get things out of society. You CAN eliminate legal ownership. But that is not the same. Illegal firearms are widely in circulation and always will be. Moreso if you CAN not own them legally.

  • flysouth - 2013-02-06 09:11

    How revealing of a certain way of thinking - "It's clear that there are problems and what this means is that all of us, those who are not armed, are not safe." So the mind of the rabid anti-gun fanatic Kirsten is so unstable that she actually believes that by definition, any and all armed people pose a danger to fellow citizens and admits at the same time, that to be safe being armed is an advantage. But then why does she endlessly bang on about disarming everybody, why not get a gun, since they can make you safe, as she implies here? No, like all who have a manic phobia about controlling others, and indeed trying to mould society into their own fancied utopia (a condition impossible to achieve), she seems to believe, rather stupidly in the face of all evidence, that protection of life and limb can be left to the very SAPS about whose deep and abiding corruption the article is written! God save us all from such do-gooders - they will get us all killed!

  • neco.horne - 2013-02-06 09:16

    Gfsa and gun control is a complete joke! The should make laws to make it illegal to kill, rape, rob, use or sell drugs... oh wait all that stuff is illegal but criminals still do all of this so why would they care about gun control laws.

  • warwick.railton.7 - 2013-02-06 09:23

    Owning a gun is like having a parachute – you hope never to use it in an emergency but are grateful when you have to. GFSA does not represent the views of law abiding citizens of SA but its agenda is certainly endorsed by the criminal element & government alike……………makes you think? GFSA are all about removing your right to bear arms, bottom line. The problem with these so called liberal organizations is that they want to impose their will and way upon you because they believe that you are too simple & incompetent to make your own minds up and make your own choices – where do these clowns get their mandate to dictate to law abiding adult citizens? GFSA & similar organizations are all about subjugation & control and useful idiots to government. GFSA, you do not talk for us, we never asked for your input and your idea that a gun free society is a safe society. All these shootings in the States, took place in GUN FREE ZONES……………..remember the St James Church massacre where one law abiding citizen scared off three AK-47 APLA thugs with a pistol. GFSA – GET LOST. Gun control like you propose is a farce.

  • wessel.jordaan.3 - 2013-02-06 09:23

    Gun Free?! Its a truly noble concept albeit somewhat naive to even consider a South Africa where law abiding citizens could support a 'gun free' notion. There are legal processes in place and it 'works' those that do not own a firearm I strongly suggest you go to your local firearm center and let them advise you on the best options available for your particular needs. I can tell you I strongly believe that psychological assesments should be done for ALL that own a firearm or inted owning one - that will definitely assist in sorting some of the nut jobs out before they get a license.

      flysouth - 2013-02-06 09:35

      Gun free is a utopian concept. Utopian: of, relating to, or having the characteristics of a utopia; especially : having impossibly ideal conditions especially of social organization - Websters Dictionary As such there is little noble about it, but a lot that is foolish.

  • warwick.railton.7 - 2013-02-06 09:25

    This country has a mental health problem disguised as a gun problem and a tyranny problem disguised as a security problem. We need government control, not gun control – GFSA, you are useful idiots to the anc regime.

  • Balloo - 2013-02-06 09:55

    You may not like guns and choose not to own one, that's you right. You may not believe in God, that's your choice. However, if someone breaks in to your home the first two things you are going to do is: 1)call someone with a gun and 2)pray they get there in time.

      koos.vandermerwe.75 - 2013-02-06 11:20

      3)Good luck.

      simphiwe.charlie.5 - 2013-02-06 12:34

      Live in constant fear if you must. I'm quite happy being gunless. And if someone wants to steal my stuff, he can take it, it's not worth killing for.

      archangel.zerachiel - 2013-02-06 21:41

      @simpiwecharlie: and if they (the armed criminals) choose not to be satisfied with *your stuff* but want your little daughter to rape as well? And your son, and your wife, and you? And then to burn you with boiling water and hot irons and afterwards, urinate on you then cut your throats like helpless sheeps? That OK with you as well???

      mark.groome - 2013-02-06 22:55

      @simphiwe.charlie.5 " And if someone wants to steal my stuff, he can take it, it's not worth killing for." But is it worth dying for? I'd rather a good guy with a gun, stopped a bad guy with a gun. - 2013-02-27 15:30

      @simphiwe.charlie.5 - Can't wait to read your comment after you and your family have been "Reamed" by 5 bleck scum bags, keep the Vaseline handy, you and you lady are going to need it. It is idi0ts like yourself that deserve to experience some typical SA violence - please post your address

  • jan.wolters.7503 - 2013-02-06 12:52

    Everyone know's the Gun Free SA group is a bunch of criminals who are scared to get shot when they rape, steel and kill hard working people. An SA full of arms would be safer cos they will think twice before the do smothing

  • dave.learmont.5 - 2013-02-06 16:31

    I hear you jak.keyter but your figures are a bit short. Try 254,000,000 being the number of people killed by their own governments in the last century, all preceded by disarmament of civilians. I wonder why the ANC want us un-armed and defenseless?

  • archangel.zerachiel - 2013-02-06 20:31

    Having RE-READ the article (normally anything from those nut-jobs at gfsa [-who again?] are deleted wit hthe contempt they deserve) I noticed that Adele Kirsten has this to say: "It's clear that there are problems and what this means is that all of us, those who are not armed, are not safe. HEAR HEAR!!!! WELL DONE ADELE KIRSTEN!!! You have seen the error of your ways and now, finally, agree with is that have said so all these years, and state so publicly that: ONLY WHEN ARMED ARE SOUTH AFRICANS SAFE!!! Please get your other gfsa pals to get some sense as well!!!

  • paul.oxley.520 - 2013-02-07 11:21

    Welcome to the real world, Adele. Just about every pro-firearms organisation in the country has been crying out for an audit of the FCA (which you helped to create and foist upon us) for years and years. Have you at last recognised your mistake? Have you experienced your own Damascene Conversion? I doubt it...

  • - 2013-02-27 15:34

    GUN FREE SA are liars with an ANC agenda

  • Vernon Meakin - 2013-11-06 10:02

    I think its time to ban the gun free sa group ,and get them to pull there heads out of there you know whats.

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