Hundreds of police guns lost

2012-09-26 22:29

Cape Town - A total of 1 202 police firearms have gone missing since the beginning of last year, Police Minister Nathi Mthethwa revealed on Wednesday.

Mthethwa said in a written Parliamentary response that 885 firearms were lost or stolen last year and 317 this year. Of those, 170 had been recovered.

The Democratic Alliance said the large number of lost police firearms was fuelling an illicit trade in weapons.

"This means that the majority of these dangerous weapons are still out there on the street, most likely being used to commit crime," said DA spokesperson Dianne Kohler Barnard.

"The reality is that the SAPS is fuelling the illegal firearms trade in this country."

  • sharon.erwin.96 - 2012-09-26 22:42

    Question: Does this number include the guns sold from the evidence lockers? I would assume the answer is no, and nobody will believe that it doesn't happen: - 2012-09-26 23:23

      How much SAPS corruption and crime by policemen have we seen in the past 18years, plenty!! Say what you want, the police from the old regime was a formidable force, they showed zero tolerance for bad behaviour inside and outside the SAP, everyone including whites had a fearful respect for them. SAP from the old regime was a reflection of the government, same character - they did not tolerate, ill-discipline, slackness and thuggery.... the same way we were raised in schools pre 1994.

      liesure.larry - 2012-09-26 23:32

      "Hundreds of police guns lost".... nonsense they where all sold on the Black Market....

      kevin.kramer111 - 2012-09-27 06:17

      @leisurelarry: black being the operative word...

      squeegee.pilot - 2012-09-27 07:06

      Dare lose yours and see how deep in the dwang you are...

      koos.vandermerwe.75 - 2012-09-27 07:32

      @Leonardb1: Seems? The primary concern of the cANCers from 94 was to remove all checks and balances. This is why no books under government control will ever balance again, nothing is off limits including selling police weapons and lies and miss information is the order of the day. What we see and hear about is only the tip of the iceberg.

  • henk.vanrensburg.31 - 2012-09-26 22:48

    And Zuma said something about the rule of law.....eish...

      tony.baxter.737 - 2012-09-27 10:47

      Yes, Zuma did say that the rule of law is to be upheld. Consequently, we should expect to see 1,202 Police fired for failing to return their issued weapons. They must have records! surely?

      maureen.churchill.9 - 2012-09-27 15:00

      Lost or sold? I think it would be the latter

  • BulletProof. - 2012-09-26 22:49

    And do you call police to those idiots?

      Harold Chisimba - 2012-09-26 23:34

      hahahaa! Is it not u B.u.l.l.e.t p.r.o.o.f Why did u nickname yourself

      Harold Chisimba - 2012-09-26 23:34

      hahahaa! Is it not u B.u.l.l.e.t p.r.o.o.f Why did u nickname yourself

      anthro45 - 2012-09-27 09:44

      That's what you get when you employ uneducated criminals.

  • sachasea - 2012-09-26 23:03

    Police guns going missing = lower crime stats. Hmmm?

  • joy.clark.794628 - 2012-09-26 23:09

    LOST I WONDER!!!!!!!!!!!!!!????

  • Savethe White O - 2012-09-26 23:13

    The number is probably double that and been manipulated like the crime stats. Eish lost you gun howw here is another one

      sharon.erwin.96 - 2012-09-26 23:20

      20429 police firearms lost between April 2004 and March 2011, which means an average of approximately 3000 per year. The figures quoted in the article are substantially less than the ones above, so one can assume that there is a bit of under-reporting happening here!

      nkosikhonorman.ludidi - 2012-09-27 04:09

      sharon where or how did you get that figure, from media???if so,i'm laughing at you

      sharon.erwin.96 - 2012-09-27 09:02

      @ nkosi - I expect you are right! I got the number from an article posted by the BBC, but the true figure is in all probability much much higher!

  • lsfreak - 2012-09-26 23:24

    Just a question.. If I lose or if my gun is stolen and is used in a crime I'm responsible. If these missing guns are used are the "cops" that lost them held responsible??

      nkosikhonorman.ludidi - 2012-09-27 04:05

      where did you get that nonsense you are saying??who told you that you are responsible for that firearm???you know nothing man

      fussed.anderson - 2012-09-27 06:05

      Proof of education

      hein.huyser - 2012-09-27 06:20

      Proof of lack of education

      koos.vandermerwe.75 - 2012-09-27 07:37

      And based on nkosikhonorman.ludidi comment and photo we can now assume that his words are the reason that official service weapons gets sold to criminals. Lack of responsibility.... and lack of conscience.

      nkosikhonorman.ludidi - 2012-09-27 07:51

      koos i commented like that because you don't know about SAPS,We get charged if we lost our service pistols and declared unfit to carry firearms,but you people you just talk and talk as if you know,some of the police get fired for loosing their guns

      koos.vandermerwe.75 - 2012-09-27 08:00

      Yes nkosikhonorman.ludidi I talk. I talk of what I’ve seen with my own eyes and what I’ve experienced firsthand. I know this and of this I will talk and I have a few stories to tell. Let’s just say that I have learned my lessons well. P.S. you commented like that because that is how you see it.

  • Tim Elliott - 2012-09-26 23:25

    This beggars belief and Mthetwa goes to bed at night with zero conscience about guns stolen and crime stats!What a f..g disgrace!Show some pride..RESIGN!!

      nkosikhonorman.ludidi - 2012-09-27 04:02

      tim,what can you do if you can be appointed as SAPS minister?????

      Karel du Toit - 2012-09-27 05:36

      @ nkosi That is the problem. Too many political figures talking too much with no action.

      nkosikhonorman.ludidi - 2012-09-27 07:45

      tim.when Nathi resigns please apply for the post maybe you will come with a plan to end crime

      marc.klynhans - 2012-09-27 08:28

      Nkosi - by the sound of his name, he will never get the job.

  • Harold Chisimba - 2012-09-26 23:29

    No wonder that armed robbery is on increase.

  • Erna - 2012-09-26 23:29

    Don't stories like this give you a warm, fuzzy and SAFE feeling?

  • david.eccles.182 - 2012-09-26 23:46

    What? We have police?

      devon.riley.52 - 2012-09-27 02:37

      divid we still have some good cop out there, but the rest are criminals in blue

      nkosikhonorman.ludidi - 2012-09-27 03:58

      david,no you alone,you don't have the police - 2012-09-27 07:55

      Jeesh nkosiNkonkoni - when did they let you loose out of your cage to play on the computa?

  • rofhiwa.ronald.1 - 2012-09-26 23:58

    They turns to illégal trade of guns coz gvernment paid them penuts .:::: ONE:::

      rontheogre - 2012-09-27 01:09

      Paid peanuts? I don't think so. Look at the salaries per month from min to max in 2010 according to Popcru: Constable - R8461 to R10294, Sergeant - R10706 to R13025, Warrant Officer - R13426 to R19632, Lieutenant/Captain - R16988 to R20669, Major/Lt Col - R21399 to R26034, Colonel - R38765 to R47077. This does not include benefits like housing, etc.

      charmaine.paterson1 - 2012-09-27 05:52

      Thank you Ront! I am so tired of hearing how badly paid the police are. Constables have matric and a couple of months in-house training and look at what they earn. They also have various allowances, such as danger pay. Not many places in this country where you can walk out of school and earn that much, ask the miners.

      nkosikhonorman.ludidi - 2012-09-27 07:29

      paterson.miners at lonmin mine some of them have STD 1 BUT THEY GET PAID NOT LESS THAN R8000

      koos.vandermerwe.75 - 2012-09-27 07:40

      Damn, make me wonder why I ever bothered to study. I should have gone into mining or joined the police.

  • Notrax123 - 2012-09-27 00:51

    "Mthethwa said in a written Parliamentary response that 885 firearms were lost or stolen last year and 317 this year. Of those, 170 had been recovered." Please tell us do Nathi..... 170 were recovered, how many of these were used in crimes? How many police officers were prosecuted for theft of firearms and how many were prosecuted for gross negligence? Why have firearms if they are not used against crime?

  • danie.smit.587 - 2012-09-27 04:17

    Do they the police fight crime or do they fuel crime? Its not only the rich loosing out , without investors the poor South African loose a opportunity to be employed.

  • gerrit.vanpletzen - 2012-09-27 05:17

    Every policeman who loses his firearm should be prosecuted and fired. The law makes provision for charges if a firearm is negligently handled, or lost.

  • toofaan.monsoon - 2012-09-27 05:35

    Riggghhht. Now let's here the \Gun Free South Africa\ response. The more illegal guns there are out there in the hands of criminals, the greater the need for decent law abiding citizens to have access to a means of defence. But Noooo, this group thinks that we should just let only cops have legal guns. Guess what, nobody knows where thousands of cop guns are. - 2012-09-27 09:40

      Agree, I'm still waiting for the GFSA lot to put signs up outside their houses stating they are members of Gun Free SA and don't have a firearm on the premises. Bu then again, I doubt they believe in their cause that strongly....

  • hendrick.mokwale - 2012-09-27 05:41

    Lost?o am i lost here?#1000guns

  • kevin.kramer111 - 2012-09-27 06:21

    Eish...sorry Baas....Ei dunno whet heppen two thee gun...angaas...

      koos.vandermerwe.75 - 2012-09-27 08:36

      @mavis.tlhoaele: That is not racist. You catch a black guy at 3am in your yard, put him under your boot and you’ll be surprised how quickly you are referred to as “Baas”. Nothing racist about it. If anything a sign of respect or even fear but not racist.

  • johnodup - 2012-09-27 06:24

    Since members of the police force are neither disciplined, nor expected to pay recompense for any lost weapon, my guess would be that the majority of these guns are actually being sold... and to criminals at that!

      nkosikhonorman.ludidi - 2012-09-27 07:09

      lack of information brother, if you lost a firearm at SAPS you pay for it

      koos.vandermerwe.75 - 2012-09-27 07:52

      @nkosikhonorman.ludidi: Question, how do you “lose” your firearm?

  • ron.samuels.129 - 2012-09-27 06:25

    Resign and go back to banking,not that you are doing that job any better!

  • marco.degiovanni.583 - 2012-09-27 06:28

    I would love to know if the officers responsible for the fire arms lost have been made accountable for the loss/misplacement of these weapons as required by law , and have their accreditations been review etc.As a private citizen and owner of firearms i know what will happen to me if i report my firearm missing etc

      nkosikhonorman.ludidi - 2012-09-27 07:06

      marco we always get your firearms at robbery scenes because you hire criminals those private firearms,,

      koos.vandermerwe.75 - 2012-09-27 07:42

      Private firearms include R5's?

      nkosikhonorman.ludidi - 2012-09-27 08:21

      koos those R5 you are talking about are those who get robbed from police but most of the firearms we ge at scenes are private ones,some of them not even reported stolen or robbed by the lawful owner,only to find out that he hired the firearm to the criminal

      koos.vandermerwe.75 - 2012-09-27 08:43

      @nkosikhonorman.ludidi: I am not denying that you do find private firearms and I have no sympathy for private owners who “lose” their firearms BUT I have witnessed 3 bank robberies, one postal robbery and one exploding ATM robbery (I should tell you that one, very funny) in the last 3 years and R5’s and AK’s where featured heavily so you can’t place the blame on private owners alone. Hell given a choice I’d rather face a 9mm then a R5.

  • hein.huyser - 2012-09-27 06:28

    Station commanders, this is a reflection on you and your deployed cadres. Enough now. A total cleanup of the system is required, starting with the prezzie, and then work our way down to the entrant constable. If he disrespects the constitution, the "state" can not employ him/her. Zero tollerance

  • mshiniboys - 2012-09-27 06:43

    some have been given to political friends to scare their way up in political parties or shoot and kill the competitors.Check Bheki Cele's house you might find one of these shoot to kill machines.

  • Bafana Joseph - 2012-09-27 06:43

    our police are useless im not surprise

      nkosikhonorman.ludidi - 2012-09-27 07:01

      bafana are you useful you????

      Mandy Casey - 2012-09-27 07:12

      Bafana can't even play soccer

      nkosikhonorman.ludidi - 2012-09-27 08:15

      bafana i am used to the name USELESS.I hear it everyday when i pass uneducated people like me,,they always call us izinja(dogs)only few people appreciate my work and i am happy for that

  • bbooyse - 2012-09-27 06:51

    Lost or sold?

  • Craig Fawkes - 2012-09-27 06:56

    I have to wonder how one loses a gun. I think there is going to be more on this in the future.

  • fanie.gerber1972 - 2012-09-27 06:59

    please add these 5300 aswell

  • eve.eland - 2012-09-27 07:12

    Is the police themself,who else can it be...

  • arthur.salvado - 2012-09-27 07:15

    Can the police please put out a price list together with the description of the guns. Thank you

  • Krishna - 2012-09-27 07:28


  • rara.sitofu - 2012-09-27 07:28

    Do they get stolen or do they sell them,where do they keep their guns!They(police) must think that we r stupid!

  • Peter Zylstra - 2012-09-27 07:32

    Disgusting! Are they perhaps building an arsenal for future attacks on their ennimies?

  • sthembiso.jali.58 - 2012-09-27 07:40

    when they search for those guns they must begin at capeflats, drugs warzone.

      mphela.kelatu - 2012-09-27 07:50

      n kzn were politicians people they get shot every single month

  • gaopalelwes - 2012-09-27 07:58

    Were these people screened or just employed of having green ID?Seems we've mercenaries here.Mind u foreigners do have SA I'd these days thanks to forerign affairs.

  • eugene.muller.7 - 2012-09-27 08:02

    Then when a firearm is used in a crime, ballistics can prove it is a SAPS weapon. In the case of loss of life, sue the state for compensation and negligence?

  • dejaay.heineken - 2012-09-27 08:51

    Its unfortunate how other ppl lost the firearm and I think it was going to be 0 loss or stolen firearm if saps can say police must leave the fiream at work when going home and if u said u life is not safe at the street and u took it wit u home and it got stolen or lost u must be fired cos u insist to carry it!

  • sesom - 2012-09-27 09:44

    Sure, they sell them to there friends... Hang these bastards

  • alan.ingram.355 - 2012-09-27 10:25

    The SAPS guns are NOT lost, they are sold to criminals !!!!!!!!!

  • cordeliam - 2012-09-27 10:33

    Say no more!!!!!

  • flysouth - 2012-09-27 11:48

    Day after day as we read yet more news stories about the utterly dismal management of everything in government hands one thing is clear - NONE OF THIS CAN BE FIXED WHILST THE ANC HOLDS THE POWER! The only solution is a complete change - get rid of the ANC first and then, with honest and competent and accountable politicians and administrators the mess can be repaired.

  • ludlowdj - 2012-09-27 12:17

    The unfortunate truth is that the vast majority of these weapons went missing from police safes and were not lost through crime against policemen, the other fact is that all of the weapons stolen from police stations and police lock up facilities were stolen by serving police men.

  • ludlowdj - 2012-09-27 12:20

    An investigation will also show that military weapons have been sold wholesale by the state as well, a look at your nearest military facility will reveal that the standard issued R4 and R5 have been replaced with the old discontinued Lee Enfield .303 rifle which were being sold off as defunct weapons up until 1994.

  • sean.kedian - 2012-09-27 12:34

    Well when the police fall asleep in the charge office with their guns lying in full view of everyone,is it even remotely surprising???And why are these errant policemen not charged under the same code as civilians? And why are they given another weapon?

  • Badger - 2012-09-27 12:35

    Please don't BS us, those weapons were sold for beer money !!!!!

  • sesom - 2012-10-01 12:10

    O, please man they sold them to their mates..To rob the people. I bet they all Black Police men who LOST their guns..

  • kseyffert - 2012-10-12 16:08

    And this my brainless member of Parliament is exactly what you were told would happen when you started down the road to restrict firearm ownership. It is impossible to make any society gun free! Guns are now out of the bag and a reality of life. Our only real solution is to empower the law abiding to defend themselves and deliver very harsh sentences on those perpetrating violent crimes. Taking them away from law abiding citizens only makes them bigger victims. As long as our courts keep handing out slapgat sentences. things are only going to keep getting worse. The reality is that Children (That's right, Far too many South Africans are behaving just like spoilt brats) will always give you what they think you want. Not what you say you want but what you show them you want by how you treat them, how they see you treating others. Just a little something to think about......

  • Jean-Pierre Ardinois - 2015-08-18 15:26

    Lost? Oh no, sold to the highest bidder in the criminal world (with other words the legal criminal organisation works together with the criminal organisations).

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