As it happened: EFF disciplinary committee, day 2

2014-10-08 16:25

Twenty members of the EFF face a parliamentary disciplinary hearing after heckling President Jacob Zuma with 'pay back the money' in August.


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Last Updated at 20:48
08 Oct 16:38
This is where we wrap-up our live updates for today.

08 Oct 16:37
Xabo explains the behaviour of EFF members as having been disorderly.

08 Oct 16:29
Xabo implicates Malema, Shivambu, Gardee, Tshabalala, and Ndlozi. VV asks Xabo to explain what is happening.

08 Oct 16:25
VV asks for the video to be played again...

08 Oct 16:14
Initiator Van Voor continues with evidence against EFF MPs.

08 Oct 16:10
Committee resumes...

08 Oct 15:26
Committee breaks for 10min

08 Oct 15:25
Various points of order being called. The chair suggests 5min break. Honourable Fortuin requests to be recognised - it is still unclear what point he is trying to raise.

08 Oct 15:21
The chair refuses to allow a certain honourable Fortuin to address the committee.

08 Oct 15:19
...The initiator will be allowed to complete his leading of evidence and the committee members are asked to compile notes to be addressed after evidence.

08 Oct 15:17
Committee members arguing amongst each other on points of order. A proposal has been made. What that proposal is, is not clear.

08 Oct 15:08
VV and Xabo discuss Malema's actions.

08 Oct 15:06
VV: did Mr Holomisa at any point get to ask his supplementary question?

08 Oct 15:02

Xabo asked to identify the members who speak instead of MP Holomisa:

Shivambu, Ramakatsa, Ndlozi, Litchfield-Tshabalala, and another

08 Oct 15:00
VV: Holomisa's functions were impeded by EFF members when he was meant to address the house.

08 Oct 14:55
VV moves onto charge 3 beginning with Shivambu.

08 Oct 14:52

VV trying to ascertain from Xabo which EFF members were involved when the heckling directed at Zuma reached a crescendo.

Xabo: at the time this is happening Mr Gardee is hitting his desk with his [red EFF] hard hat

08 Oct 14:48

VV: Who is the speaker speaking to when she directs to leave the house?

Xabo says the members who were standing.

08 Oct 14:45

Xabo says that he can only speak in terms of the rules. VV suggests that the speaker may have been unclear in calling the sergeant at arms to remove certain members.

Xabo again refers to Rule 51 - the speaker's authority was disregarded.

Xabo refers to an earlier judgement..."A speaker has a duty to maintain order in the national assembly".

VV asks for the video to be played again...

08 Oct 14:40

VV: was the speaker reasonably exercising her power while several members of the EFF were on their feet and gesticulating?

Xabo: the speaker was acting within the rules of Rule 51.

VV: were the MPs acting in an orderly fashion.

Xabo: all I can say is that they were not recognised.

08 Oct 14:36
VV addressing Mbete calls to the sergeant at arms to "remove EFF members who are not serious".

08 Oct 14:33

VV now returns to Shivambu...Charge 2: Shivambu refused to withdraw from the chamber.

VV requests another part of the video clip.

08 Oct 14:28
VV moves onto the charges against EFF MP Mbuyiseni Ndlozi. "The speaker told Mr Ndlozi to take his seat", "did you see that Mr Chair".

08 Oct 14:21
Video shows Mbete trying to convince the EFF to sit-down 'or be thrown out'.

08 Oct 14:20
VV and Xabo now dealing with the actions of EFF member Godrich Gardee. Another video clip to be played...

08 Oct 14:13
VV asks about someone who said 'Hayibo' in the house.

08 Oct 14:11
VV asks that committee members do not express their exhaustion on audio equipment [read yawning]. A section of the video clip is played.

08 Oct 14:08
VV and Xabo discuss the actions of EFF MP Khanyisile Litchfield-Tshabalala.

08 Oct 14:01
Xabo identifies Mr Ramakatsa in the video - also charged with contempt of court.

08 Oct 13:59
Disciplinary committee resumes [EFF not present]

08 Oct 12:54

The initiator, Van Voor, requests a 45min lunch break.

Hearing suspended to 13:45.

08 Oct 12:49
VV request a clip to be played...

08 Oct 12:49

VV: how many attempts were made by the speaker to take the debate forward?

Xaso details Mbete's efforts to hold Shivambu at bay and recognise Holomisa.

08 Oct 12:46

VV asks Xaso about the fact that Mbete asked Shivambu to take his seat and that she does not recognise him.

Xaso explains from the guide to procedure of 2004  - particularly issues relating to points of order.

Xaso: ordinarily if the speaker does not recognise a point of order, the speaker is not obliged to take any points on the issue.

08 Oct 12:43

Holomisa did not get an opportunity to ask his supplementary question.

Xaso reads the record which states Shivambu's request for when the president will pay back the money.

08 Oct 12:35
Shivambu and Ramakatsa face the same charge.

08 Oct 12:31

Shivambu's 1st charge:

Contempt of parliament when he refused the order of the speaker to take his seat.

08 Oct 12:26

The members have been divided into three groups according to the charges they face.

...Groupings of charges seem complicated.

VV begins with Shivambu's charges.

08 Oct 12:22
VV now wants to 'drill into the detail' about the specific charges as they related to EFF MPs.

08 Oct 12:22

VV asks Xaso to elaborate on whether procedure was followed.

Xaso says the speaker allowed a supplementary question and also allowed the president to respond.

08 Oct 12:20

Video: Malema addresses the president in what appears to be the first supplementary question after the original submitted question.

A discussion ensues about a point of order with Mbete.

Zuma responds to Malema's question - heckling begins - Mbete calls order.

Mbete call up the next question by Holomisa [end of clip]

08 Oct 12:16

VV and Xaso discussing Zuma's answer to Malema's question about the Nkandla upgrades.

VV: how many further questions are allowed?

Xaso: the member who asked the question followed by the 4 supplementary questions - these questions are dictated by the 'to talk' button.

08 Oct 12:12

Video: Zuma's reponse to Malema question

VV asks Xaso what transpired...

08 Oct 12:11

Members all approved questions as published.

VV asks for another portion of video clip to be played.

08 Oct 12:08

Xaso reads Malema's question to Zuma about when the President will respond to the Public Protector.

Xaso now dealing with issues around the submission of questions.

08 Oct 12:05
VV and Xaso going through supplementary questions...

08 Oct 12:03

Xaso asked to identify the MP's who asked supplementary questions - ANC, ACDP, DA, IFP

08 Oct 11:57

VV: which party posed the first question to the president?

Xabo: Ms JL Fabs, a member of the ANC

08 Oct 11:56
Xaso now dealing with Shivambu's assertion that the EEF has got the rule book as well and that the house should 'get back to the business of answering questions'.

08 Oct 11:53
VV ask for another short clip to be played...

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