The more business owners emigrate, the worse the consequences for job creation, says Solly Moeng.
More sun than clouds. Mild.
Lauren Hess, News24
Tim Noakes HPCSA hearing has been postponed to November 23 this year.
Chair: If I don’t receive anything by that day, I assume
there will be no applications. I would also suggest that in my report back to
council, that notice be given timeously to all parties to the appointment of
that member so you have time to prepare.
Officially adjourned until November 23.
After much back and forth between the parties, involving
serious swishes of diary pages and cellphone calendars, they have agreed on
dates on which they are all available.
Chair: We have dates: 23rd November- 1st
December 2015, same venue unless HPCSA gives notice of another venue. Is the
onus on me to request the coordinator that we need an additional member? I
don’t want to go any further than conveying. Are you both happy with that? I am
not otherwise suggesting names.
Both parties happy.
Chair asks prosecutor whether he wants to respond to the
committee not being properly constituted. Mapholisa replies that he stands by
his previous submission that the committee is properly constituted.
alleviate the fears of the respondent, the ruling that has been made to say
that an additional member that is registered in the same profession as the
respondent… that I fully support.”
Chair asks him how long he thinks it would take to appoint
the additional member?
Prosecutor says: Given the availability of technology, this
can be done overnight if my learned friend is amenable or willing to accept the
proposal. There are already allegations against the pro forma complainant. I
will not go into those.
Prosecutor: I would be willing to waive the seven day requirement
for the appointment. I would suggest that we stand the matter down so the
respondent can go back to the drawing board. Then we come back tomorrow and get
a ruling so we know where we are going.
Prosecutor: “Once this committee has taken a decision, that
decision is binding to both parties. I suppose that my learned friend knows
exactly what options he has when he is aggrieved by a ruling or a decision that
was taken by the honourable committee. My learned friend has only got one
option to follow, which he has amongst others, mentioned to say that they may
consider taking this matter on appeal.
"If my learned friend feels that he has
take proper instructions, he could ask the honourable committee to stand down
this matter until tomorrow so at least from now on until tomorrow at 10:00... then
he has clear instructions as to what options he wishes to follow.
postpone this matter, for instance, to August this year, for the respondent to
re-consider his position regarding whether he wants to take this matter on
review, then that would be a completely futile exercise since that decision can
be taken now…”
He mentions this because he's not available according, his diary shows, for the next few months until August. It would definitely be a futile
exercise if we postpone to that period.
Committee is waiting patiently for Noakes and his team to
come back into the room. Prosecutor Mapholisa is also absent, says News24's Jenna Etheridge.
a side note, she writes, the snacks presented outside the conference room during tea time
included pastries, brownies and sandwiches, followed up with fried savoury
The full lunch presented to the parties in the dining room included a
variety of foods, including vegetables and salad items...
The chair suggests an adjournment until tomorrow morning for
this purpose. She asks how the parties feel about this.
Prosecutor Mapholisa: All pro forma complainant’s witnesses
are present and ready to proceed. I am quite ready if any additional member can
be appointed into the current honourable professional conduct committee so we
Van der Nest responds by saying he needs to consider the
decision. Asks for five to 10 minutes adjournment to consider their position.
Joan Adams: "We have one member of the board. This committee
has no powers to deviate from Act and regulations.
"There can’t be any
condoning. During the adjournment, of course and as requested… I have been
informed in front of all other committee members that Dr Salujee is in fact
registered with medical and dental professions board.
"He has also shown me his
HPCSA card and it says his speciality is paediatrician.
"Be that as
it may there is no reason, there is no suggestion that he does not comply with
a regulation. There is a problem in the sense that there is not a third person on
this committee registered with the medical and dental professions board and in
the same discipline as the respondent.
"We are lacking in one committee member. In terms of the Act
and regulations, the responsibility rests solely on the chairperson of the
medical and dental professions board. While we had the adjournment, and
considering the history of this matter… I took the liberty of asking any
committee members if there was anything we should declare or anything which
should be aired in light of fairness, justice and transparency.
"I would like to
place the following on record: Prof Blaauw has indicated absolute objectivity. In 2014, she
was co-supervisor for student enrolled in diploma of advanced ethicsc, which
entailed that she used the media implications of Tim Noakes as a case study.
In terms of law, we are not properly constituted. At
this stage, we cannot proceed. We postpone for those purposes. I doubt very
much whether this paperwork and red tape will be complied with this
Yummy treats at #NoakesHearing 4 post lunch snack. @ProfTimNoakes camp leave on table. @HPCSA_ too. Change of heart? pic.twitter.com/EiipIX1lHe— Jonno Proudfoot (@jonnoproudfoot) June 4, 2015
Yummy treats at #NoakesHearing 4 post lunch snack. @ProfTimNoakes camp leave on table. @HPCSA_ too. Change of heart? pic.twitter.com/EiipIX1lHe
News24 user William Potgieter writes: "I started banting in February 2014. I lost all my excess
weight, and could (with the help of my doctor) go off all the medication I was
"I believe the dietitians know that Tim Noaks is right, but
they don't want to admit they were wrong for the last 30 years."
Laughs at resumption of #NoakesHearing as we find Tex bars at every seat. @ProfTimNoakes refuses to hand his over - he’s “saving our lives”.— Jacques Rousseau (@JacquesR) June 4, 2015
Laughs at resumption of #NoakesHearing as we find Tex bars at every seat. @ProfTimNoakes refuses to hand his over - he’s “saving our lives”.
One user, Jessica, suggests some caution with banting: "
I think the diet has place and is suitable for certain people i.e. low
cholesterol, etc, but I think before anyone does the diet they should get their
"I think that people who want to change the South African
dietary guidelines need to take into consideration that more than half the people
in SA can only afford simple carbs [such as] maize and bread because those
are the staple foods and not everyone can afford to buy so much meat.
think that this diet is a fad because not many people are reading the facts
about the diet they are seeing that 'oh she lost 10kg on the banting diet, let
me try it' and not actually understanding it before they do it."
#TeamNoakes def came prepared. Waiting to hear if @ADSA_RD has any brain behind all that brawn #NoakesHearing pic.twitter.com/CwC6w6JQpU— Karen Thomson (@HELPdietSA) June 4, 2015
#TeamNoakes def came prepared. Waiting to hear if @ADSA_RD has any brain behind all that brawn #NoakesHearing pic.twitter.com/CwC6w6JQpU
How will the 'Tim Noakes' diet affect your immunity?
According to Cape Town-based dietician Kim Hofmann, there are some
benefits to be found in low-carbohydrate eating; as long as it’s
low-carb and not no-carb.
“Carbohydrates are your unit of immediate 'energy food'. They control blood sugar levels and keep them stable, which is an important part of health.
"We (dietitians in SA) have always recommended a controlled carbohydrate intake with a limited intake of simple, low fibre,
sugar carbohydrates. South Africans in general do follow a diet too
high in carbohydrates, but cutting out complex, high fibre, healthier
carbohydrates is not the best for your health,” she explains.
News24 user, Henni says: "
Banting in January 2014 – at the time I weighed in the region of 190kg. I am
currently down to 105kg. That is 85kg in 16 months.
"I run 10km every day, not
because I feel that I have to, but because I have so much energy that I CANNOT
sit still anymore.
changed my life completely. It is absurd that Noakes is being vilified. He has
given me and many like me a new lease on life."
“We can ask you for a decision on how you consider your own
composition as a committee and may we ask you for a factual point of view, ask
members of the committee what they are registered as.”
Chair says: I never know beforehand or decide who to
appoint. Don’t know how anyone is registered.
Van der Nest: We are definitely not suggesting that you
Chair: “We are going to adjourn and going in camera. No
recording, no bugs please (laughter). We are going to need some time. Suggest
we adjourn again at 14:00.”
Van der Nest (Noakes's lawyer) says regulations state that panel must consist
of three board members or members of the relevant profession. He must be tried
by members of the medical and dental profession, not others.
“His (the complainant) role is to
prosecute the case and to bring whatever expertise he wishes to harness… to
persuade the committee, his peers and the public, that he is correct.”
He explains various definitions of terms in the act and
regulations. If you are being tried by your own professional board, you should
be faced with GPs hearing your case and members of the public, to judge you as
“A relevant profession can never be a dietician because a dietician is
not registered under medical and dental board. That person could never qualify
under the act as a relevant profession.”
Chair: “I don’t see that the act or regulations have any
problem with experts on the committee. If one needed an expert in a specific
field, committee would be entitled to have someone like that appointed, do you
agree with me?”
HPCSA advocate Mapholisa agrees.
Chair: Regulations say that panel can have as many experts
as it wants.
Complainant’s lawyer agrees again. Says that in a court of
law, it is the same. If judge is faced with technical issue that requires
expertise, an expert can be appointed as an assessor to assist the judge to
come to a fair conclusion.
Chair: “So if this case calls for nutrition expertise… we
are quite empowered to do so?”
Three people registered at medical and dental professions
board. We have two. And then we have Prof Blaauw with necessary expertise for
nutrition and diets. Correct?
Lawyer says that is correct.
Committee chair says that she was copied in on request from respondent
for Prof Viljoen to recuse herself. She acknowledged its receipt and also
received a subsequent letter yesterday regarding Viljoen’s replacement.
said she only engaged on the correspondence regarding practicality of the
matter, not consideration of the merits of the case.
Mapholisa said he was not suggesting any bias or
anything against any committee member. He just wanted to place concern on
record that the committee chair should not have been contacted before the hearing.
The respondent has never raised that particular issue from
May 30 until yesterday [Tuesday].
“Only yesterday, late in the
afternoon, did we learn that the respondent was going to object to Prof Blaauw
participating in these proceedings.”
If respondent had raised this on May 30, this situation could have been avoided and we would not have to be debating
it now. But he is leaving it in the hands of the committee.
News24 user, Melissa says: "
I’ve been following the lifestyle for over a year, and the
only negative side effect I can see, is on my budget. I can’t afford to
buy new clothes all the time, as my body shrinks.
"On the other hand, my
health has been so much better, that new clothes are a small price to
pay. My sugar and cholesterol readings are normal. I have more
"I can concentrate for longer periods of time. I don’t get
that mid-afternoon slump. I feel younger, because the aches and pains I
used to experience in muscles and joints are gone.
the Big Business Funded commission decides, I will continue as I have
been. I just hope the commission has the good sense not to destroy the career
of a man who has changed the lives of so many people for the better. Tim
Noakes is my hero."
Arguments over the composition of the panel are still continuing. Mapholisa continues: "If we go with strict interpretation of
section 15 of the act, it will mean that the current panel is also not
"This provision relates to at least three members and here we only
Chair responds by saying there is an “OR” in that provision, “or
members of the relevant profession”.
He concedes that there are members of the relevant
profession here today.
The chair of the conduct committee has responded, saying: "
It is a bit of a wild statement to say he is practicing
outside his scope, is it not? Chair of committee asks complainant’s lawyer.
Chair of committee asks: "Isn’t it a
question of a medical practictioner having a special interest and thus writing
books? I am hesistant to use 'outside his scope'.
Mapholisa responds: "It is true that he has not
been charged with acting outside of his practice. But in 2011, there were
amendments to the Act regarding scope, after a huge public outcry regarding
plastic surgeons as an example.
“People who were GPs and had an interest in
public surgery, would go on a course for a week or two. When the person comes
back, he advertises himself as a public surgeon and starts conducting himself
as such. Whereby, patients were literally in fact, I would use a strong term,
assaulted, by these practitioners because they didn’t have the skills and
"I would propose however an additional member, who is the
seventh member of this panel, should be appointed. This particular member must
still be a dietician who can give guidance and advise.
Thus NOakes’ application must be dismissed. If not, the
committee it can uphold the request but then give an order that since this
matter revolves around a diet, there has to be an extra member who is a
Another News24 user, Sam, has a less positive story to tell about LCHF: "After two months of banting I developed an irritated stomach lining and landed in the emergency room.
"I'm not saying it doesn't work - it's just not a good diet for me."
“The point raised by my learned friend to say that prof
Blaauw should recuse… that contention madam chair would be, I would say, not in
the interest of justice.
"If we replace the professor with a GP, for instance,
who is going to assist this committee to reach a fair decision after all the
evidence has been considered, especially when technical issues of diet are
raised by experts.
“If this honourable committee succumbs to what my learned
friend has submitted… it would be the same situation where a blind person leads
“None of the committee members have knowledge about diet
issues. Furthermore madam chair, I would submit that Prof Noakes purports
himself as a dietician and he has written books on the issues of diet, even
when he is a GP, acting literally out of his practice as a GP and dwelling into
diet issues. When the dietician society gets aggrieved by this particular
conduct of prof Noakes, then he cries foul to say that dieticians cannot in
fact make judgement calls on him.”
Another News24 user, Peter, tells of how the diet has worked for him and his family: "
Our whole family have benefited from eating more fat and
Children have better concentration and we as parents have
lost weight and have more energy.
"It's disingenuous to say LCHF is as healthy as a
balanced diet, its clear to me that eating this way (LCHF) has tremendous
benefits for all age groups.
"It doesn't have to be that expensive either, if you plan
your meals, using rendered fat from fatty cuts of meat to add to later meals
and other methods, it is possible to eat for less.
"Fat will fill your appetite so your portions will decrease
and will need less snacks between meals.
Glad this debate is in the public domain, there could be
This is from News24 user Alan Gernet: "My feedback is that I have battled for years with weight and
health, eating according to the (now debunked) Dietary Guidelines.
Banted for 11 months, lost all excess weight, gone off a long list of
medications, and am in the best health that I can remember in my life. I
eat REAL wholefoods now, avoid the bad carbs, and make a point of eating lots
of different types of healthy fat. The lifestyle is easy, and healthy ..
unlike what ‘normal’ modern day eating is.
"I believe that politicians and the ‘beneficiaries’ in the
food industry, one-sided medical research (funded by the industry that
stands to benefit at the expense of health), out of date dieticians and
doctors, and doctors who benefit from pharmaceutical companies and sick
patients have a lot to answer for!!
"The hearing should start there in an ideal
world. Sadly, too many people benefit from selling drugs and having sick
No matter what the outcome of the trumped up hearing, I will
Bant for the rest of my life. The LCHF enlightenment is growing rapidly
throughout the world, and I have yet to come across any credible evidence that
disproves it to my mind. Certainly – the world epidemics of cancer and diabetes
show that we have been taught the wrong stuff for years.
More News24 users say the real meal revolution is for them."
When we wrote the letter last night, we asked for you
to appoint someone who is in the same discipline as he, says Noakes's lawyer. We asked for an urgent
response and none was forthcoming.
Van der Nest asked by the head of the committee why he is
has raised this issue at such a late stage. He replies that they responded as
soon as they could and that this issue of a member needing to be in the same
discipline as Noakes, only arose recently.
If you are on the LCHF eating plan and not seeing results, you could be making one of five common mistakes, one of which is not planning ahead.
Prof Tim Noakes might be a scientist, but the Banting Diet is based on bad scientific reasoning, argues Health24's Carine Visagie.
"Noakes’s theories have added a lot of dogmatic noise to a world that’s
already confused about dieting and healthy eating. And, yes, many of
what’s written in his book and said in media interviews are theories
rather than known fact, and need to be assessed according to all the
evidence available," she writes.
Michael van der Nest, SC, from Johannesburg, is representing Noakes. Van der Nest raises letter sent to committee members yesterday. Starts giving background of the case.
We pointed out to pro forma prosecutor and to committee that there was a problem with Professor Viljoen being on committee due to his views. Asked him to recuse himself and he did. Replaced with another professor.
Says committee as it currently sits is not compliant and in breach with health legislation. Regulation six: chairperson of professional board, must appoint a professional conduct committee at least seven days before hearing.
@DrAseemMalhotra @DrAseemMalhotra @DrEades show support for @ProfTimNoakes at today's #noakeshearing pic.twitter.com/2uVef83OKG— Jonno Proudfoot (@jonnoproudfoot) June 4, 2015
@DrAseemMalhotra @DrAseemMalhotra @DrEades show support for @ProfTimNoakes at today's #noakeshearing pic.twitter.com/2uVef83OKG
Professor Tim Noakes has changed the status of dairy products from
"all-you-can-eat" to eat "with caution" after dieters complained that
they weren't losing weight quickly enough, the Sunday Times reported.
Noakes admitted that cream and yoghurt had been "quietly removed" from the green list on the Real Meal Revolution website, the weekly said.
So does that mean this milk tart is a no-go?
Many dieticians have spoken of what they believe are the flaws in banting.
""A low carbohydrate, high fat diet as promoted by Professor Tim Noakes
is not always easy to prepare in a way that is acceptable to infants and
children," says Kerryn Gibson, a dietician specialising in paediatric nutrition.
She told Health24 that the process of weaning involves the introduction
of new tastes and textures to an infant's diet.
"Weaning is also a way
for infants to learn how to eat. The texture of weaning foods is
extremely important to get right in order for the foods to be accepted
and easily swallowed by infants. This factor often determines the type
of food used."
According to Noakes, in order to maximise your infant's future prospects
you need to maximise the brain growth during their first two years.
"You can’t do that with a high carbohydrate, cereal-based diet lacking
in the real foods promoted by the LCHF/Banting diet promoted in the Real
Meal Revolution," he told Health24.
24.com publishes all comments posted on articles provided that they adhere to our Comments Policy. Should you wish to report a comment for editorial review, please do so by clicking the 'Report Comment' button to the right of each comment.
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