Gupta/Waterkloof debate - as it happened

2013-05-22 14:05

The National Assembly plenary has debated the use of the Waterkloof Air Force Base, following a furrore surrounding the landing of a plane at the base by the Gupta family. Read updates here.


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Last Updated at 23:54

16:48 - @Jacanews: #GuptaGateReport: One #GuptaGuest is still in the country-and did not leave when scheduled. That person is still in #SA. Being investigated. #GuptaGuests did also not comply with the visa requirements... visited Cape Town before departing... Not all those who arrived with the flight departed on the outgoing flight.. AND #SARS has not acted against the pilot.

16:48 - Carien du Plessis - #Guptagate report is most interesting. Koloane said he's "under pressure from no 1" and ministers of transport and defence asked him to help... Lt-Col Anderson told colleague: "I must be very careful now, our no 1 knows. It is political. Allow them (Gupta landing)"

16:47 - @Jacanews: #GuptaGateReport: There was no attempt to determine the identities of the individuals providing route protection and escort… There was no attempt to verify the vehicle licence plates or their use of blue lights… SAPS found two BMW's fitted with blue lights. Also found three VW Golf GTI's and one Isuzu bakkie fitted with blue lights

16:46 - @Jacanews: #GuptaGateReport: SARS was listed as a recipient (of wedding request) - but recipient of the FAX had actually left #SARS a year prior... The #SARS official (no longer working for SARS) had in fact over a year still received confidential information... How this was done without raising alarm raises concern around the vigilance of officers.

16:45 - Carien du Plessis: #GuptaGateReport: Immigration Act requires civilians entering the country to present themselves physically with passports-this was not done

16:38 - #GuptaGateReport: … This had an effect of bringing the person and the Office of the President into disrepute… parking and landing fees were waived as the flight was misrepresented to be official... The absence of #SARS at the base when the flight arrived has emerged as a concern. - @Jacanews

16:37 - @Jacanews tweets: #GuptaGateReport: says “This was a serious infringement of diplomatic protocol. The Indian High Commission admitted as much”... Lieutenant Colonel Anderson stated that ''Number1'' WAS aware of the (wedding) request.. Amounting to misrepresentation …

15:58 - Charl du Plessis: On May 13, the DG said the President did not give instructions to Koloane ... On 2 April, Koloane contacted the Defence Minister's political advisor: (Koloane) stated that he was under pressure from No. 1.

15:56 - Phillip de Wet: #Guptagate report: govt provided 88 vehicles and 194 people (yes, paid by taxpayers) to Gupta wedding. Guptas hired 296 security guards.

15:55 - Charl du Plessis: #GuptaReport Ntshisi asked for something in writing, to which Koloane said that "the challenge was that this could not be put in writing"... Koloane (Chief of Protocol) told Sergeant Major Ntshisi that the minister of defence had no objections.

15:52 - Charl du Plessis tweets: According to #GuptaGateReport Koloane told the Air Force that the Transport Min. was instructed by the "President to assist the Guptas".

15:50 - Phillip de Wet?: That last is a direct contradiction to what the Indian High Commission said yesterday. #Guptagate

15:48 - Phillip de Wet tweets: Paydirt. One India (state) minister had official meeting with Free State govt - three days before #Guptagate plane landed. So no cover there.

15:40  - Debate concludes. House adjourns.

15:39 - Mcgluwa raising point of order, asking whether it's parliamentary for Pandor to refer to President as Zuma

15:38 - Hajra Omarjee tweets: Naledi Pandor says (President) Zuma did nothing wrong regarding #GuptaGate in the #Guptadebate

15:37 - James Styan tweets: Pandor says the party that claims it fought apartheid actually was formed after apartheid. Pandor says the DA is making the public protector into their own "detective inspector".

15:35 - Pandor: We have investigated the matter. Report now public. Those who read it will see that the DG's task team did an excellent job... went beyond.

15:34 - MP asks Pandor to withdraw remarks about opposition parties who run to the public protector.

15:33 - Pandor getting shouted down with calls of "you knew" and "who stamped the passports", tweets James Styan.

15:33 - Pandor responds with "sticks and stones".

15:32 - Holomisa interjects and asks: What happened to the honourable, truthful Naledi Pandor.

15:30 - Pandor: Opposition consumed by hatred of President Zuma. Tragic that MPs fail to rise above political interests.

15:29 - Pandor: We should not rush to find everyone guilty in our narrow political agenda.

15:27 - Pandor: No country can thrive if it has senior public servers ready to sell their country to the highest bidder. 

15:25 - Pandor: It is clear from report minister has provided that this landing fell outside established norms, rules broken, authorities breached.

15:24 - Pandor: Maynier has been on a fishing expedition since he joined parliament, hoping he'd catch big  one for elections . Lekota has been angry since 2007. He spends so much time in court he has lost touch with reality.

15:23 - Pandor: Those who speak the truth are always feared... They (opposition) will not allow speakers of the majority party to speak. They're afraid of it because it does not suit their intentions. They are not interested in the truth.

15:22 - Naledi Pandor at the podium.

15:22 - Kohler-Barnard: minutes of meeting used as confetti. Sr ANC leader says for flouting of regulations, Zuma must have instructed...This is going to lead to us being downgraded again just as we have been downgraded in eyes of world.

15:21 - Carien du Plessis tweets: Now @DKB20 from DA on. A little birdie, or rather, FB, told me she can't wait to lay into the police. Speaks untweetably fast ... I wonder how long @DKB20 practised this speech because she speaks poetically but faster than a rapper.

15:19 - Kohler Barnard: Our ministers have developed "Gupta-itis" - a condition brought on by media heat.

15:19 - Kohler Barnard: A wedding of that magnitude was meticulously planned.

15:18 - DA's shadow minister of police Dianne Kohler-Barnard up at the podium now. She says: How State Security didn't know? Could have been terrorists on board. Ask SARS, sat at home like Cinderell.

15:17 - Rebecca Davis tweets: Azapo dude has said "heligupta" twice with the air of a man who thinks he has just coined a novel witticism

15:16 - Azapo MP takes the stand and says: If SA was a woman we would say she had been raped

15:15 - Bhoola: There has been far greater abuse during apartheid by white people. Undoubtedly, President Zuma will NEVER let the country down.

15:14 - Bhoola: DA also had dinner with Guptas. That is how business is done. Zille said she had delicious meal, that's it.

15:13 - Bhoola: Political parties must not be hypocritical. Name dropping is evident the world over.

15:12 - Bhoola: The President must have known something 

15:11 -  Minority Front's Roy Bhoola up at the podium now. Says MF rejects any attempts to stereotype this thing. DA stuck in mindset, no evidence.

15:10 - Mphahlele: If we want to restore our integrity. We need to protect our country from the politically corruptability of the Guptas.

15:09 - Mphahlele: Some politicians are receiving money stained with blood and cocaine.

15:07 - Mphahlele: We now know SA is as safe as a lamb in wolf's den. But we shouldn't fear the wolves, but the truant shepherds.

15:06 - Mfundisi finishes. PAC leader Letlapa Mphahlele speaking now.

15:05 - Mfundisi - Political accountability has been sacrificed to the dustbin of expediency.

15:05 - Mfundisi: In a real democracy ministers would resign or get fired over event like this.

15:04 - Mfundisi: Are we to believe a military installation is not a national key point, but the private residence of our president is?

15:02 - UCDP's Sipho Mfundisi now at the podium.

15:02 - Speaker calls for order: "It's difficult to listen when your mouths are open."

15:01 - Van Wyk: ANC will guard over our hard won freedom. I thank you. Carien du Plessis tweets:
MPs are also confused. FF Plus asks Max Sisulu if report has been tabled. Sisulu says once he receives it, it is #Guptadebate

14:59 - Van Wyk: We accept the opposition is suffering from a serious case of election fever and government envy...The ANC is not for sale. Our country is not for sale. No to big business or other countries.

14:59 - Carien du Dlessis ?tweets: Van Wyk's speech is so impassioned that I fear at times that she will lose her English.

14:58 - Van Wyk: We should guard ourselves against abuse of power by those with money. Luxury vehicles speed without number plates.

14:57 - Van Wyk says opposition will do anything to illegitimise government. Criticised report even before it came out...

14:57 - Ben Trovato ?tweets: ANC MP Annelize van Wyk would be inside my Room 101 #Orwellianharridanfromhell

14:56 - ANC benches are dead quiet. All listening intently. Opposition very vocal, tweets James Styan.

14:54 - Van Wyk defends ministers; says opposition parties participate in parliament..."at least they collect their cheques every month."

14:53 - Van Wyk turns to DA and asks "did you enjoy the curry?"

14:52 - Van Wyk: It's not a surprise the nation was angry. 

14:51 - ANC's Annelize van Wyk now speaking.

14:50 - Why would Koloane have risked his career? Was there a compensation? There are too many contradictions for the ACDP to believe, says Meshoe.

14:49 - Meshoe: We want to know why blame is placed mainly on two officials...We want to know why the Gupta family is not charged. Are the Gupta's lying or is the report full of blatant lies?

14:47 - Now speaking Kenneth Meshoe ACDP President.

14:46 -  I have a message for the president Learn  from the past...If SA continues with their friendship with the Guptas they'll be Finish and Klaar.

14:46 - The DA's hands are also dirty, says Groenewald. Carien du Plessis tweets: "DA isn't clean, your hands are also dirty if Helen Zille said she had the best curry at Guptas that she's ever had #Guptadebate"

14:45 - Government created a security breach in SA and they're responsible.

14:44 - FF Plus MP Pieter Groenewald speaks at the podium now. Speaking in Afrikaans.

14:43 - Holomisa - A lot of things don't add up in Gupta report. If not national key point, why line ministers up to investigate? 

14:42 - Holomisa: It's to be expected from government that investigated itself. Government has allowed Guptas to use DPE as cash cow for business breakfasts.

14:41 - UDM's Bantu Holomisa at the podium. He says, "It is neo-colonialism of a special kind."

14:39 - Rebecca Davis tweets: Some of these MPs at the parliamentary Gupta debate have a look in their eyes I recognize from the mirror when I'm waiting to do karaoke.

14:39 - McGluwa: What happened to the customs officials? ... How much money did we lose because of the hiccup in your department?

14:38 - McGluwa:  I find it hard to believe nobody in Cabinet knew who was arriving and why... All airlines supposed to provide info about who is on board within 15 minutess of taking off. Why did SA not pick it up? 

14:37 - ID's Joe McGluwa up on the podium. "I have never seen the ANC so embarrassed in my life."

14:36 - IFP MP: We are on dangerous grounds when our citizens ask "who runs this country".

14:34 - IFP asks is this the kind of leadership we want for our country. Where we live from scandal to scandal, tweets Paula Chowles.

14:33 - IFP MP at the podium. "This debate should be about the integrity of our president."

14:31 - Nathi Mthethwa looks like he is plotting Lekota's death #guptadebate Lekota is well entertaining though! Hits the nail on the head, tweets @natssimon.

14:29 - Lekota: This is an administration - executive - that runs the country as if SA's has a chicken's memory.

14:29 - Lekota: This is not the democracy that so many died to achieve... This is not the democracy for which Nelson Mandela spent 27 years in prison.

14:27 - Lekota: Astonishingly the justice minister says name dropping is to blame.

14:26 - Lekota: The ministers told us they don't know anything and that they're unable to enforce the law... if anyone enters SA through something other than port of entry they should be arrested.

14:25 - Cope's Mosioua Lekota at the podium.

14:24 - Maynier says we should come together and fire President Jacob Zuma on election day.

14:24 - Maynier isn't mincing his words. Accuses Zuma of having "sugar daddies" and calls Radebe the "damage control officer in chief", tweets  @MG_Reporter.

14:22 - Maynier: There is a widely held perception that when the Guptas say "jump", the president asks "how high?".

14:21 - Maynier: Nobody believes that not one minister knew anything about the Waterkloof landing.

14:19 - Radebe is done. DA shadow defence minister David Maynier up.  Maynier says: The president should be here today to account to parliament rather than hiding away from us...

14:17 - Radebe: We have demonstrated our transparency... we will work harder to continue that our country remains safe.

14:16 - Radebe: Six cases have been opened with the police. No decision to withdraw case against cops at Gupta wedding.

14:15 - Nickolaus Bauer tweets: Defence minister Mapisa-Nqakula and state security minister Cwele smiling form ear to ear as Radebe reads out the report details.

14:14 - Radebe: The DG in the presidency ever gave any instructions...

14:13 - Radebe says: A person in Indian High Commission redesignated wedding party as an official delegation. No official note verbale.

14:12 - Radebe - Goverment has accepted the contents of the report. We will not be dictated to. We have applied our minds.

14:12 - Radebe: We can only reiterate that we are satisfied with investigation.

14:10 - Carien du Plessis tweets: Radebe waving about the report, says it has been released to the public today. We are still eagerly awaiting it ...

14:09 - Radebe: Opposition act like they were prosecutor, judge and jury altogether. I'd venture to say that's exactly what government was

14:09 - Justice Minister Jeff Radebe: We have become used to opposition parties reaching a verdict before the facts.

14:07 - Watson: "Zuma's absence in the House is like his absence of leadership. The President is absent here today - what type of leader is this."

14:06 - #GuptaDebate DA's Watson: Cabinet is using officials as scapegoats - a mockery of our country… everything we hold dear, tweets Karin Labuschagne.

14:06 - Watson: "I ask you sir, is this the democracy that was envisaged for SA? Where debate is not encouraged”

14:03 - "I know the ANC did not want this debate," says DA Chief Whip Watty Watson.

14:02 - Debate begins

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