Oscar Pistorius bail hearing - day 3

2013-02-21 14:30

Follow updates on the fourth day of Oscar Pistorius's bid to secure bail at the Pretoria Magistrate's Court.

17:07 - Phiyega: We do not lynch people... Botha is still a member of SAPS, he is still working. He is not suspended.

17:05 - Phiyega: Investigation to be under leadership and stewardship of divisional commander of detective services Lieutenant General V Moonoo.

17:00 - Aislinn Laing tweets: South African police say a new detective will be assigned to investigating the Pistorius case, Warrant Officer Hilton Botha is out.

16:51 - Botha removed from Pistorius case.

16:38 - Phillip de Wet tweets: We don't know whether there will be a bail ruling tomorrow. Little argument left, but Nair could, theoretically, take weekend to consider.

16:10 - Prosecutor Nel tells BBC’s Andrew Harding "not more than an hour" left for his argument on Friday.

16:01 - Court adjourned until 10:00 on Friday.

16:01 - Nel: Roux says why would an international athlete flee - I ask why would an international athlete handle a firearm in public.

16:00 - Nel: Pistorius elected to give his version via affidavit rather than be questioned in court.

15:59 Nel: He is prone to violence. What else are threats and murder?

15:58 - Nel: Roux argued its young-people speak [breaking legs], but here we have threats and a dead woman.

15:58 - Nel: the threats to Mark Batchelor and at Kyalami went unchallenged - because it's true.

15:57 - Nel: There's one person who knows every detail of what happened that night - he has the onus.

15:56 - Nel: It's not disputed that Pistorius let off gun in public place...and got someone else to take the blame. That's the real person.

15:55 - Nel: The witness statements we have are taken under oath.

15:53 - Nel: Oscar Pistorius will at least face culpable homicide. But the State says it is planned murder; he should have foreseen consequences.

15:52 - Nel: his version can only be that he wanted to kill the person in the cubicle, that's why he fired.

15:52 - Nel: I struggle to see if it's not murder, pre-planned… ‘I fired.. there was a risk… but I took the risk’.

15:51 - Nel: If I fire through a door, 1.4 x 1.4 [metres], did he do it to hurt? He must, he must, have fired to kill.

15:50 - Nel: Why did he shoot? Did he want to kill the intruder, not Reeva? Let's give him the benefit of the doubt.

15:50 - Nel: Botha said nothing inconsistent with State's case, as well as the defence's. And burden of proof is on Pistorius.

15:49 - Nel cites precedent that the accused "must prove on the balance of probability that he will be acquitted".

15:47 - Nel: This man created his feeling of vulnerability but stormed the [toilet] door - on his own version.

15:45 - Nel on Oscar Pistorius version: Actions indicative of a man willing and ready to fire, to kill… He stormed the danger.

15:45 - Nel: Pistorius never woke Reeva up and asked her if she had heard an intruder.

15:44 - Nel: his version is so improbable that it can never be a reasonable possibility.

Nel: You want to protect her but don't look at her

15:43 - Shows how Pistorius walked past Steenkamp three times but didn't look if she was in bed.

15:43 - Nel gets animated: "Reeva, Reeva, have you heard something? Did you hear a noise?"

15:43 - Nel: The issue with affidavits is it's untested. We argue the love being described by the witnesses wasn't from the night of the incident.

15:40 - Nel moves onto process and the issue that defence only gave a statement and did not take the stand himself.

15:39 - Nel: for dramatic effect, Oscar Pistorius says: "I've been the victim of death threats, violence and burglaries" but he never laid charges.

15:38 - Nair: Are you aware of murder cases that have been downgraded from premeditated murder? Nel: Yes, did one before you.

15:38 - Nel: The president in his state of the nation spoke against violence against women and children.

15:36 - Nel: Total lack of insight and willingness to take responsibility for his deeds increases OscarPistorius flight risk.

15:35 - Nel: Oscar Pistorius says 'I have money, I will give you bail. I will give you my passport if you want it, otherwise I'll go on with my life.

Nel: He wants to continue with his life as if this incident never happened. A total lack of insight into the seriousness of what he's done.

Nel on Pistorius statement: "Astounded by the total lack of insight into the seriousness."

15:34 - Nel: Says he needs his passport to compete internationally. Always leaves it open. He never said 'I'm not going anywhere'.

Nel: Pistorius shows a total lack of appreciation for what he's done.

15:33 - Nel: Pistorius seems to think that he won't be charged or go to jail for a long time.

15:31 - Nel making much of fact that Oscar Pistorius said he would stand his trial "should there be one.

15:31 - Nel: why didn't we get full details of Oscar Pistorius' offshore accounts? Why was family so frantic to get memory stick in safe?

15:30 - Nel: We argue that the court should be concerned about the memory stick. It relates to offshore accounts. Why so eager to get memory stick?

15:29 - Nel repeats there's nothing exceptional in this person’s application. He's a man of means.

15:29 - Nel: the dropping of the gun was an act after the firing of the shot.

15:28 - Nair: does state rule out Pistorius could have orchestrated the crime scene? Nel: Even planned murder could have immediate remorse.

15:28 - Nel: Even if you plan a murder... Mr Roux more experienced than I. Magistrate: In planning murders? Nel: No! Court erupts.

15:27 - Nair: You're working from point that no one else came onto the crime scene before police? The accused orchestrated the scene?

Oscar Pistorius starts to sob while Nel talks about Reeva's dead body. Brother Carl's hand on back.

15:26 - Nel keeps coming back to fact that Oscar Pistorius survived the night, thus his version is put to court.

15:26 - Nel: State's version is that there was an argument and Reeva locked herself in the toilet.

15:25 - Nel: Why would Reeva leave her phone outside toilet if she was going there to relieve herself?

15:24 - Nel: In front of the shower, next to the gun was two cellphones... why?

15:23 - Nel: The three cartridges found in the bathroom supports the State's case.

15:23 - Nel: How did Pistorius get those phones and gun onto that mat? Did he throw them? Objective facts support the State’s version.

15:21 - Nel: "The uncontradicted, unchallenged evidence of the position of his cellphone and gun are the coup de gras for his case." Kill his case.

15:20 - Nel says Oscar Pistorius may not have planned to show Reeva Steenkamp - but he planned to shoot somebody. Not in self-defence either.

Nel: "No court will ever accept that the applicant acted in self-defence."

15:19 - Nel: "I'm Oscar Pistorius, I'm a world-renowned athlete" is not showing special circumstances in terms of bail.

15:17 - Court resumes.

15:07 - Roux tells eNCA news that he "didn't think it proper" to question Botha about attempted murder charges against him."It's not relevant to us."

15:02 - Ten minute break, then prosecution will tell us why the State thinks Oscar Pistorius should be kept in jail for duration of trial.

15:02 - Defence lawyer Barry Roux standing with pleased smile on his face, arms crossed, waiting.

15:01 - Nair: will there be some level of shock if Oscar Pistorius is released? Roux: no there will be level of shock if he's NOT released.

15:00 - Nair questions Roux on whether releasing Pistorius on bail will evoke sense of outrage in the community. Roux: It depends.

14:59 - Phillip de Wet points out that the law deals with whether somebody out on bail is likely to intimidate witnesses or commit a crime.

14:58 - Pistorius looks incredibly tired. His eyes seem closed, says Alex Crawford.

14:58 - Nair questioning whether Roux adequately dealt with the allegation of threats of violence made by the accused.

14:57 - Nair: Pistorius had an assault charge laid against him previously. Roux: A false charge.

14:56 - Karyn Maughan says Oscar Pistorius gives a deep sigh as Nair questions his alleged history of threatening behaviour.

14:55 - Nair: There is evidence Pistorius threatened to break legs; discharged weapon; swore at someone: charge laid against [him] by his ex.

14:53 - Roux admits he didn't ask Pistorius about his alleged accidental discharge of gun in restaurant - and asking friend to take fall.

14:52 - Roux: It would be a "terrible injustice" to use vague, hearsay allegation about the restaurant incident against Pistorius.

14:51 - Nair: There is evidence in this bail application that Oscar Pistorius asked a friend to take the fall for accidental gunshot fired in restaurant.

14:51 - Nair: If established [that Oscar Pistorius would interfere with witnesses] should he be released on bail? Refers to Tasha’s [restaurant] incident.

14:49 - Magistrate says one of the grounds against bail is the possibility the accused could influence witnesses.

14:49 - Roux concludes. Nair has a few questions.

14:48 - Roux: he has given his full version, it makes sense, there is nothing to refute it - why should he still be jailed?

14:47 - Roux: Nothing qualifies this as a section 6 crime. Why should he be further incarcerated in the interest of justice?

14:47 - Court security tells @eNCAnews producer @kestapp that they "know nothing" of the threat. Magistrate acted on a warning from his bodyguard.

14:45 - And we are word on what the "threat" was.

14:41 - Magistrate leaves very quickly. Says something going on outside.

14:39 - Adjourned suddenly due to a "threat of some kind" outside.

14:39 - Is there any reasonable, acceptable reason why he won't come to court to stand his trial, Roux asks. I don't believe it, he says.

14:38 - Roux on flight risk: "It borders as close as can be on impossible. That's why I was amazed by the evidence of the investigating officer."

Roux: We all know the applicant, we can see what's going on around us. He's a professional, he's an icon, he represents so many things.

14:37 - Roux: Father's ammunition in his house has nothing to do with Oscar Pistorius propensity for violence.

14:36 - Roux says when Oscar threatened to break soccer player's legs it was 'just an expression'.

14:36 - Mandy Wiener says: Oscar Pistorius seems to break down momentarily, his brother comforts him. Shoulders hunched, despite laughs in court at Roux comment.

14:35  - Roux: The firearm accidentally going off does not prove this is a person with a propensity to commit crime.

14:34 - Roux on Pistorius: "He has a clean track record." Don't think the pun was intended, says Phillip de Wet.

14:33 - Roux: This was a true and loving relationship with no motive to kill.

14:31 - Mandy Wiener says Roux is gesticulating all over the places, using hands to make his point for emphasis. Knocks glasses on podium.

14:31 - Defence trying to argue there was nothing to infer any motive, [they] had a loving relationship.

14:29 - Pistorius hunched over, body heaving, sobbing hard, according to reporters.

14:27 - Roux: We ask you [Nair] to reconsider your ruling... There exists no objective facts that show this should be treated as a schedule six offence [premeditated murder].

14:27 Roux: You cannot confuse any argument with a planned murder.

14:25 - Roux: There were no eyewitnesses. There will only be forensic evidence about events in the house.

14:25 - Oscar Pistorius crying for the first time today, leant forward, face red, veins in temple pulsing, says Aislinn Laing.

14:24 - Roux: Botha's evidence can be apty sumarised as extremely poor, resulted in the "monumental collapse of State's case".

14:24 - Karyn Maughan tweets that National Police Commissioner Riah Phiyega is expected to address media at the 16:00 press conference. A new lead investigator on the case is also expected to be announced.

14:23 - Roux: "very rare that a witness will lie about everything", after Nair asked why he believes Botha [about the] phone calls.

14:22 - Roux: Botha must have known what was on cellphone records and that it didn't help his case.

14:22 - Pistorius slumped forward in dock, overcome by emotion, David Smith tweets.

14:20 - Roux: Botha admitted that he knew of no phone call that could have formed part of a pre-planned offence.

14:20 - Roux: Botha conceded that the bat was not used to hit Reeva. He conceded that blood on the bat came from the scene.

14:19 - Roux moves on to the bloody bat. Says there is no possibility that the bat could have played any role other than that which Pistorius puts forward.

14:18 - Roux: Botha knew if he denied saying that bail for Oscar Pistorius wouldn't be a problem, there'd be big problems. We have witnesses.

14:18 - Nair: Would Botha have conceded mistakes if [he] wanted Oscar Pistorius behind bars at all cost? Roux: He had no choice.

14:17 - Roux: He is an internationally known athlete. Why would he flee?

14:17 - Roux argues that Botha tailored his evidence to incriminate Oscar Pistorius as much as possible, ignored mitigating evidence.

14:16 - Roux: [The] idea that Oscar Pistorius might skip bail "does not accord with common sense".

14:16 - Roux: Botha supported bail, now opposes it. What changed? We don't know.

14:15 - Roux: Botha was not a credible witness. We cannot say that he would tell the whole truth.

14:14 - Roux: [Botha] then introduces the evidence of the woman who heard screaming and the shots - a vague piece of evidence.

14:13 - Roux arguing possibility/probability. Could this or that have happened? Yes. But did it? Probably not.

14:12 - Karyn Maughan says SAPS will hold news conference at 16:00 to address the Botha debacle.

14:12 - Roux: the witness statement does not fit in with the applicant's version.

14:11 - Roux: If you tell me it's a neighbour, you can go there and take a little meter and measure it. State chose not to do that.

14:10 - Nair: What would you say to the possibility in the dead silence of the night, no music playing, 03:00, shots are fired. Clearly audible?

14:08 - Oscar Pistorius's head is now in his hands, looking down, hiding his face. He looks tired and numb, says Adriaan Basson.

14:08 - Roux: When you hear the details of that witness and how far away they were, you wonder why the police included it.

14:06 - Roux on witness who was 600m away: Why put something in a way that you create a wrong inference? [The] prosecution trying to mislead.

14:05 - Roux: When you read [the] witness statement of the woman who said she heard a row,there's an "irresistable inference" she could ID people [and] was nearby.

14:04 - Roux basically saying that there are all kinds of possibilities, but the court should look at probabilities, says Phillip de Wet.

14:03 - Roux: I received an email from a person telling me he knew who had broken into [Pistorius's] house.

14:02 - Roux: Lots of possibilities but can only deal with what's in front of court, there are many possibilities

14:02 - Roux: there was NO urine in her bladder. Nair: [Is it] possible that she urinated because of the trauma of the event?

14:01 - Nair: Who's to say she didn't empty her bladder an hour before incident?

14:01 - Roux: Probability is that Reeva would have attempted to safeguard her position in the toilet after hearing Oscar Pistorius warning.

14:00 - Roux: Common sense would be a woman in the bathroom staying quiet in the face of imminent danger.

13:59 - Nair questions why Reeva wouldn't have opened toilet door to "ask what's going". Roux: In the face of danger that doesn't make sense.

13:57 - State denies that Botha conceded that ballistic evidence supported Oscar Pistorius shooting claims.

13:57 - Roux: The objective facts show that at the time of her demise, there was no urine in Reeva's bladder - backing up Oscar.

13:56 - Roux: Even if Reeva was dressed, doesn't mean she didn’t go to the toilet.

13:55 - Roux: Pistorius could not have known the angle of the person behind the door.

13:54 - Roux on Botha: Don't come and tender positive evidence as a fact. Because it won't fly.

13:53 - Nair to Roux: Let's save do appreciate that Botha isn't a ballistic expert. Roux: But he tendered evidence.

13:52 - Roux: Botha admitted he was simply wrong in asserting that shots were fired deliberately at the toilet.

13:52 - Roux: Botha conceded that the trajectory of the shots is consistent with Pistorius's version.

13:51 - Roux: Botha conceded that standing at entrance of the bathroom, angle of shots fired would be consistent with the applicant's version.

13:50 - Roux goes CSI like. Talking about trajectory and direction of travel of bullets, says Mandy Wiener.

13:49 - Roux: Botha had a statement from a person who was 600m away, then 300m away, "now I don't know how far". Witness didn't identify them.

13:49 - Mandy Wiener tweets: Roux pulls off his glasses, waving hands about, lambasting 'naked statements' saying 'desperate attempt by State'.

13:48: Argument between Oscar Pistorius and Reeva Steenkamp "speculative at best", Roux says.

13:47 - Roux: The evidence is not that the applicant knew the toilet was locked when he fired the shots. The door was only closed.

13:47 - Roux: [It] doesn't make any sense to say the burglar version is part of the pre-planning of the murder.

13:46 - Roux: Evidence shows the applicant was desperate to save Reeva's life rather than committing a planned murder.

13:44 - Roux: We say the carrying of Reeva downstairs is consistent with the applicant taking positive steps to save her life. [He] called Netcare.

13:34 - Roux: Botha in his evidence conceded that if Pistorius shouted about intruder, Steenkamp's response would be "frantic locking" of the door.

13:42 - Nair: Is this issue not rebuttal to claim that [an] intruder had easy access to Oscar Pistorius's house?

13:41 - Roux: A CEO was shot in a security complex in Waterval Estate, Pretoria. [The] fact that Pistorius lived in a security estate "doesn't tip the scale".

13:39 - Andrew Harding tweets: Roux tells me no question that this will go to trial. "Someone died... The law must take its course."

13:38 - Back in court for Roux's closing argument.

13:08 - Roux tells @BBCAndrewH he thinks decision on bail will only be made tomorrow [Friday]. ”We started too late”, says Roux.

13:01 - We're adjourning for a 30 minute lunch break. Oscar walks past, seems pretty calm again today. Tissues in hand unused, tweets Aislinn Laing.

12:58 - Court adjourns for half an hour.

12:57 - Roux: State chose to ignore Oscar's spontaneous disclosure [of burglar].

12:56 - Roux: Every allegation in preamble of charge sheet was disproved by State's own evidence.

12:56 - Roux: We have demonstrated that every allegation in [the] charge sheet doesn't support [the] State’s claim that this was [a] planned murder.

12:55 - Roux: Botha was extremely selective and seemed determined to bolster the State's case.

12:54 - Roux: Investigating officer couldn't deny that Reeva's bladder was empty at three o'clock in the morning. [This] suggests she went to [the] toilet.

12:54 - Roux: If Pistorius planned to kill Reeva, he could have done it in the bedroom.

12:53 - Roux: [The] fact that Oscar Pistorius and Reeva spent [the] night together is consistent with [a] loving relationship, inconsistent with murder.

12:53 - Mandy Wiener tweets: Just walked out the main doors here to file and there is a pack of cameras waiting for Botha to leave the building.

12:52 - Roux: The preamble to the charge sheet patently lacks substance in relation to a planned or premeditated murder.

12:52 - Roux: In the charge sheet it simply states murder, not premeditated murder.

12:51 - Roux moves to Oscar Pistorius charge sheet. Shot her 3 times through bathroom door. But State does not say he is guilty of planned murder.

12:50 - Andrew Harding tweets: Defence lawyer Roux - gentle delivery, like a family doctor, but with surgeon's instinct for the jugular.

12:48 - Roux citing case law where the requirement of exceptional circumstances was inappropriate.

12:46 - Pistorius has not looked up once during argument, says Mandy Wiener.

12:44 - Roux: The poor quality of the evidence presented by chief investigating officer Botha exposed disastrous shortcomings in the State's case.

12:43 - Roux: The State had access to the available evidence, they should have known it fell far short of showing premeditated murder.

12:42 - Roux says not only does the State have no evidence of premeditated murder, they have no evidence of murder- no intention to kill.

12:41 - Roux: We submit that the evidence shows that this was not premeditated, we request this not be schedule 6.

12:40 - Roux wants court to consider law that requires Oscar Pistorius to show 'exceptional circumstances'.

12:38 - Roux says the State is dependent on forensic evidence in the absence of eyewitnesses. [The] affidavit is consistent with Botha evidence.

12:38 - Roux: State cannot factually contradict Oscar Pistorius version of events - so he should get bail.

12:37 - Roux the investigating officer [Botha] says the contents of the supporting affidavits about the loving relationship are consistent...

12:36 - Roux: But this statement cannot be contested because the investigating officer's forensic evidence is consistent...

12:35 - Nair compliments defence advocate Barry Roux on his "performance" [on Wednesday].

12:34 - Roux starts with the value of an untested affidavit in a bail application - not same as weight of trial evidence.

12:24 - Andrew Harding: Defence lawyer Roux's chair falls over and catches me on the toe. He's just starting his argument with a joke about politicians.

12:33 - Barry Roux starts his argument...

12:32 - Roux to deliver closing arguments.

12:31 - Magistrate thanks Botha and tells him he can stand down.

12:30 - Pistorius also told Sarie he will never leave South Africa, he “likes pap and YFM”.
Sarie also quotes Oscar as saying he loves SA but enjoys Italian food!

12:30 - Nel reading: “The mayor of an Italian town built an athletics track and gym for him to train.”

12:28 - Nel reads the article - I [Oscar] spend four months of the year at a house in Italy.

12:26 - Nel: The article refers to Pistorius being given a house in Italy. Roux: "He does not own any property abroad, not in Italy, not elsewhere."

12:25 - Botha telling him article in Sarie mentions Oscar says he has a home in Italy.

12:24 - Nel pulls out a Sarie magazine. Says he was called by Botha last night to ask him whether he had read it or not.

12:23 Nair: Did the deceased receive phone calls or SMS messages between 2 and 3am? Botha: I don't know.

12:23 - Nair says Botha should have elevated request to superiors.

12:22 - Magistrate: Could your superiors have not put measures in place to get those in 48 hours? Botha: I don't have authority.

12:22 - Botha concedes 'it could have been done, it should have been done'.

Nair: Sounds to me like there was some lack of urgency in getting those records. Did you ask for the records?

12:21 - Botha: I asked person I know to be quickest for billing information, [I] don't know if they gave it to someone else.

12:20 - Botha: I did give it [phone record and billing] to a guy who I know does it quickly but he went to Cape Town or something. It is being handled.

12:20 - Nair: Did you not deem it necessary? Could you not have expedited it? Botha: I do want to see it.

12:19 - Nair: Did you obtain the detailed phone record and billing of deceased? Botha: I have asked for it but not seen it.

12:18 - Botha getting quizzed about the previous assault case against Pistorius which he dealt with that was withdrawn.

12:17 - Nair asking for more context on Samantha-party incident. Botha says Oscar Pistorius slammed door in her face. Piece of door fell on her.

12:17 - Nair asking Botha about incidents at Kyalami with Mark Bachelor and gun going off at Tasha's [restaurant].

12:15 - Magistrate asks why police investigator didn't give testimony in Afrikaans, his home language. Botha says he is fine with English.

Botha says he wants to continue in English. Nair revisiting his reasons for opposing bail: flight risk and violent behaviour.

12:13 - Magistrate in, court resumes.

12:12 - David Smith says: Detective Hilton Botha and Pistorius return to court amid a chorus of camera clicks. Family livid, tweets Aislinn Laing, saying magistrate is contravening his own order that they wait.

12:11 - Oscar is back too.

12:10 - Botha has arrived. He is sitting in the dock. We wait for Nair.

11:55 - Karyn Maughan: "When I met her, 'mental state' lady was wearing a magnificent black feather hat and carrying shopping bags. Today the bags were there, no hat."

11:54 - Karyn Maughan says: Recognised "mental state" applicant woman from a chance meeting in Parkhurst police station. She was there preparing appeal documents.

11:45 - David Smith says: Brother Carl Pistorius looking energised. Uncle Arnold Pistorius on mobile phone. Other family members huddled in discussion.

11:43 - Aislinn Laing tweets: Colleague of WO Botha tells me he was at police college with him and he's "a really good officer" they can't do without. Says charges trumped up.

11:36 - Alex Crawford tweets: "Motion by lawyer. She wants [Pistorius] examined for 60 days by psychiatrists to determine sanity at time of Reeva’s death."

11:33 - Gerrie Nel, true to form, cracks a dry joke, saying 'there goes my case', tweets Mandy Wiener.

11:30 - Nair calls Botha to appear before him. We adjourn for 15 minutes.

11:29 - Nair: Where is Botha now? Nel: He's in the court building, he asked not be here. Nair says he wants Botha to be called.

11:28 - Prosecutor Gerrie Nel: It became known to me and my team yesterday [Wednesday] that detective Hilton Botha faces seven charges of attempted murder... We didn't know when we called him.

11:27 - The mystery woman is told about procedure, collects her plastic bag and walks across the court to the exit. Nair frowns at it all.

11:27 - Magistrate basically tells her go away. She says she will file urgent application in high court. He says, with pleasure.

11:26 - Nair says there are rules and we won't be hearing any application from anyone other than the counsel involved.

11:25 - Nair - I've afforded you the opportunity to speak, even though I didn't invite you to.

11:25 - Magistrate says 'we are at an advanced stage. Not in interest of justice.'

11:24 - Both Nel and [Defence lawyer Barry] Roux protest. She says it is a constitutional application.

11:23 - The woman says she wants to bring an application that "addresses Pistorius's mental state". Magistrate, state, defence not happy, tweets Karyn Maughan.

11:23 - A woman wants to bring an application in court. Details not clear, says Barry Bateman.

11:22 - Nel wants to address three issues before we start.

11:21 - Magistrate Nair and Pistorius enter the court and hush descends.

11:19 - Oscar Pistorius's brother Carl walks in front of him, he follows and walks into the dock. It's a big day, says Karyn Maughan.

11:18 - Magistrate Desmond Nair enters courtroom.

11:17 - According to David Smith, Pistorius's father Henke is in his usual seat in the front row. Brother Carl looking quite relaxed and upbeat.

11:16 - Aislinn Laing says: Turns out it's the magistrate holding up proceedings. He wants Pistorius to come out first, lawyers saying given [number] of cameras waiting.

11:15 - Aislinn Laing says: Flurry of last minute legal visits to Pistorius... Custody officers and lawyers seem worried.

11:14 - Prosecutor Gerrie Nel is seated and ready. We wait for Chief Magistrate Desmond Nair, tweets Barry Bateman.

11:13 - Oscar Pistorius's brother has arrived.

11:12 - Defence team has arrived - ready to argue why Pistorius should be released, says Barry Bateman.

11:11 - Everybody's in the building, and sounds like Pistorius’s hearing will resume any minute now. Usual chaos and confusion in court, according to Phillip de Wet.

11:10 - @barrybateman tweets: The media have been allowed to record proceedings. The radio hacks are trying to set up a system. Let's hope it works.

11:08 - Pistorius's father takes his seat next to his daughter. Click click click. Camera flashes go off. He stares ahead resolutely, tweets Robyn Curnow.

11:03 - David Smith tweets: More chaos in Pretoria as officials have no clue how to handle media interest. Had to sprint up four flights of stairs and scrape into court.

11:01 - Court official reminds media there is to be no LIVE streaming of arguments but we can record audio and run later.

11:00 - Everyone told to take seats.

Advocate Roux has just emerged from the court holding cell where he's been in last-minute consultation with his client.

10:57 – Alex Crawford: Can't see [Pistorius] for crowd of photographers around him. Big day for him.

10:55 – Alex Crawford tweets: Everyone waiting for court to start, expected in 15 minutes. Reporters still streaming in. [Pistorius] just [walked] in.

10:52 - Custody officer tells @Simmoa that Pistorius is crying softly as he waits in the holding cell to come into court.

10:51 - @RobynCurnowCNN tweets: Inside the courtroom. Oscar Pistorius’s father and brother not here yet. His sister is sitting in front row, wearing black again. All chatting.

10:38 - Karyn Maughan says the NPA's communication officer Bulelwa Makeke now said to be meeting with Oscar Pistorius prosecutions team over Botha. He is at court.

10:26 - @karynmaughan: Prosecution team say they have not been formally told that Botha has been dropped from case.

10:18 - Journalists elbowing [each other] to get into courthouse. Taking radio [reporters] in first. New system in place today, says Mandy Wiener.

10:12 - NPA says considering charges, Botha "cannot continue with this [Pistorius] case". (via@ewnreporter)

10:11 - NPA confirms charges against investigating officer Hilton Botha were re-instated on February 4. (via @alexeliseev)

10:10 - Pistorius’s family arriving in courtroom C now, according to Andrew Harding.

10:01 - Phillip de Wet says Oscar Pistorius's family has arrived, and [run] their first media gauntlet for the day. Can't help but feel some sympathy for them.

09:56 – Alex Crawford: So far [I’m] failing to get in. Court officials say I have been in since [the] beginning so... But other [company]'s have three [reporters] in[side].

09:53 - Sky News reporter Alex Crawford says: "Even more chaotic scenes outside court as far too many [journalists]. [Could] be a fist-fight."

09:49 - Sunday and Daily Telegraph reporter @Simmoa tweets: “So we're told that today, they're [court officials] giving priority to [people] who haven't been in to court yet, which means we may not get a slot.

09:42 - Phillip de Wet says: Media access to Oscar Pistorius courtroom has taken on the flavour of a reality TV show. It's a hot, and fiercely contested ticket.

09:34 - Oscar Pistorius has arrived at the Pretoria Magistrate’s Court.

09:30 - Andrew Harding tweets: [I’m] back in courtroom C. Same seat. Less of a scramble this morning. Met #OscarPistorius uncle who is [very] pleased with [Wednesday]'s hearing.

08:30 - Journalists have erected several small tents and gazebos outside the Pretoria Magistrate's Court in preparation for Pistorius’s bail hearing on Thursday.

  • Monica Greyvenstein - 2013-02-21 09:40

    Good Luck O P

      Monica Greyvenstein - 2013-02-21 10:20

      Julle wat so Oordeel Word groot en voel hoe lekker is dit JESUS het nie gese NEE EK GAAN NIE VIR JULLE AAN DIE KRUIS STERF HY HET en HY het niemand geoordeel

      leeanne.augustyn - 2013-02-21 11:24

      Hettie, dit is reg ja in sy gebooie sê Hy jy mag nie moord pleeg nie, maar dit is Oscar se eie saak wat hy moet regmaak met die Here, of dit `n ongeluk was of nie, dis nie vir ONS om te sê jy mag en mag nie, dit is Sy gebooie en Hy sal vir ons sê wat om te doen en wat nie! Die feit dat hy `n lewe geneem het, is nie vir ons om te sê ja Hy het gese jy mag nie `n lewe neem nie, los dit eerder vir Hom of hoe?????

      nads.delange - 2013-02-21 16:52

      So julle sê basically dat alle moordenaars en rapists ens maar mag vrygaan want ons mag nie oordeel nie??? Dit klink na 'n briljante plan! Haal die freaking celebrity goggles af asb, hy het iemand vermoor, of hy nou geweet het dis Reeva of nie is nie die punt nie, hy sal op aarde gestraf word, nes enige ander krimineel.

      neil.amstrong.921 - 2013-02-21 18:17

      Ek wonder nou net wat se die Here vir haar ..

      Tim - 2013-02-22 10:20

      yo fakroddin.khanshaike , I thought your joke about your wife waking you at 4am was good, but these are lame as hell

  • hayley.fredericks.9 - 2013-02-21 09:45

    another day glued to news24.....

      harriet.hansen.7 - 2013-02-21 17:29

      Leeanne, met ander woorde die gemeenskap moet dit maar los want hy sal sy straf kry wow of verstaan ek jou verkeerd ???? Die staat moet nou op al die getuienis gaan en hoop hulle neem die regte besluit wat ek betwyfel,maar pop iets moet gedoen word.S.A ontaard in n moordadige land doen wat jy wil en dit is nie oor mense wapens het nie maar weet hulle is bo die gereg wat nie bestaan nie. STOP DIT. Straf hom vir wat hy gedoen het hy weet wat dit is.

  • Chaane Pres Mathabathe - 2013-02-21 09:46

    Looking forward to today's bail hearing as it continues...from yesterday I have it in me that the bail will be granted today

      hettie.hansen.3 - 2013-02-21 10:04

      Of course after the prosecution was pulled to pieces how ever not,but that is not to say justice will prevail. It just shows the stupidity of the South African police and forensics wake up that is why we can do these kind of things here and get away with it.

      elgh.elgh - 2013-02-21 21:47

      We all thought a week ago that he is guilty of killing reeva, premeditated, but all the evidence given a week ago, by media. Now things look a bit different, I hope sincerely hope that he gets bail, and that the truth whichever way will come out.

  • Perrygreen Dlamini - 2013-02-21 09:46

    Let d judgement begin s he getting a bail or not.dis case s going 2 far nw let d judge gv hm wht oscar deserve......

      desmond.drake.1 - 2013-02-21 09:49

      Please stop vandalizing my language.

      Dan - 2013-02-21 10:14

      WTF dude, where did you learn to write? with respect Desmond, this is RAPE, not vandalism !!!

      msika.bopha.9 - 2013-02-21 10:16


      dane.oreily - 2013-02-21 10:25

      Cool! ... thanks for the sms Perrygreen!!

      jenny.hallmiddler - 2013-02-21 10:34

      What language are you writing in !!

      Kalibanache - 2013-02-21 10:37

      Perry : I think with those few missing letters the story went missing too LOL

      karin.hattingh.96 - 2013-02-21 10:38

      Huh? Can you speak English please Perrygreen?

      themba.thwala.775 - 2013-02-21 10:50

      Perry thinks this is what's app :)

  • punungwe - 2013-02-21 09:46

    Whoever is dredging things up to discredit Detective Botha, needs to know that this discredits them more than it discredits Det Botha. Why resort to dirty tricks. It sounds more like desperately trying to fashion an escape route. Come to think of it, the more this is drawn out the more a certain group of people profits out of it. Just think, who gets paid per hour while this case is ongoing?

      sarahclaireP - 2013-02-21 16:34

      Extra charge just for a Cc in an email... I dread to think.

  • frans.mosia - 2013-02-21 09:48

    I am interested to know what motivated Oscar to fire the first, second, third and fourth shot, at his girlfriend whom he mistook for a burglar.

      karin.hattingh.96 - 2013-02-21 10:40

      Frans it is on the front page of every newspaper, it is on television.. if you don't know by now, then you do not deserve to know.

      Patricia - 2013-02-21 11:16

      Exactly! Did he not hear that it was a woman screaming after the 1st shot or did she die without making a sound?

  • frank.vennard - 2013-02-21 09:48

    I find it very strange that the prosecution have not jumped on the "cartridge in the toilet bowl" that Roux brought up yesterday,in an attempt to further discredit botha.The only way that could have been ejected into the bowl, is from a shot fired inside the toilet area,NOT from the bathroom - 2013-02-21 09:54

      Think it was the bullet itself, not the casing...

      barney.dino.5249 - 2013-02-21 09:55

      not the cartridge..........a bullet point.

      Nico Eksteen - 2013-02-21 09:56

      The projectile (bullet point) was found in the toilet bowl not the cartridge.

      Nishaat Lillah - 2013-02-21 09:56

      Uhm frank are u a ballistics annalist? Did u work it out?

      msika.bopha.9 - 2013-02-21 10:18

      Pleas read Frank.

  • Felicia de Meyer - 2013-02-21 09:51

    Sterkte OP en familie,hoop jy kry borg!!!

  • byron.wright.102 - 2013-02-21 09:51

    Think Bail has to be granted here- The state have not provided any evidence of Pre-Meditation. Not to say he is not guilty but seems schedule 5 or most likely Culpable homicide at this satge so no reason to hold him, Have serious doubts about claims he would flee

      susan.k.vanschalkwyk - 2013-02-21 10:34

      I am with you on this one. No way out, he is guilty, he pulled the trigger that took a life... but schedule 6 also sounds a tad harsh

      karin.hattingh.96 - 2013-02-21 10:42

      Ah, a sensible comment. Thank you.

      leeanne.augustyn - 2013-02-21 11:41

      I totaly agree with you sensible comment!

      lestine.stevens - 2013-02-21 11:47

      @byron..agree, the man practically confessed..he had intention to kill but NOT his girlfriend, he showed remorse amply so

      hilton.baartman - 2013-02-21 17:41

      As I understand it, in terms of the law the onus is not on the state but rather on Oscar Pistorius to show that on the balance of probabilities that he will eventually after trial be acquitted of murder charges. He also has to prove EXCEPTIONAL circumstances to get bail since Magistrate Nair ruled it will be considered as a schedule 6 offense on day 1 of the bail hearing.

  • Saki Noskii Mohlala - 2013-02-21 09:51

    let the truth come out.

  • raquel.azeredo.79 - 2013-02-21 09:52

    This whole incident is incredibly tragic and has affected many lives...At first many people probably thought that Oscar killed Reeva with intention but after yesterday's revelations in court, I'm starting to think that it was one horrible accident that happened because of the strangest coincidences that life can throw at us and obviously because we live in a society where we are living in so much fear of violence and crime and yes how much more vulnerable does a disabled person feel.More and more I'm believing that Oscar did commit a horrible accident and is it not enough punishment that he has to live the rest of his life knowing that he accidently killed the woman he loved. Why as a society do we always think the worst of people even if they were heroes in the past. What Reeva's family is going through is absolutley horrible but what Oscar and his family is going through must be like hell on earth especially if it was an accident....Too sad.....for all involved.

      FREE Prof. Karabus...NOW!! - 2013-02-21 09:57

      Very sensible and beautiful comment!!

      barney.dino.5249 - 2013-02-21 10:03

      I again, think otherwise. OP has a history of threats and violent behaviour all linked to women. He sounds to me like a posessive jealous individual with anger issues. If there was booze involved, it will seal the case as neigbours already said they were arguing. Not pre-meditated murder as he didnt plan it, but murder cause he shot her in a blind fit of rage. Crime of (maybe alcohol blinded) passion!! But let the law and court takes it course, its just about which team can juggle and mispresent the true facts the best. As for OP, give him bail, he cant go anywhere if his pport is confiscated, so the flight risk argument is thin, and he will be recognised worldwide since this is world news. But I still dont think he is as innocent as he pretends to be.

      hettie.hansen.3 - 2013-02-21 10:12

      I think what Reevas family is going through is worse sorry accident or not he must be charged with something,and does it make any dif. that he is an olympic champion???can you shoot to kill for that Just asking.

      briantebogo - 2013-02-21 10:28

      Actually OP is innocent. It's just that the media, in their usual attempt to sell papers, decided he was guilty and went ahead to brainwash the public. Any sensible person who suspects that a burglar is coming in through the toilet window would blast that door with bullets. OP doesn't have a history of violence; we heard that from the same media. We concluded his guilt based on the nonsense we read. Detective Botha himself accepted yesterday that he can't find anything amiss with OP's version of events.

      harry.booth - 2013-02-21 10:37

      Explain how he didint make bloody sure it wasnt his girlfriend before shooting blind!!. its crazy! Bullet holes higher than possible, if he didint have his prosthetics as he said. He said they had a quiet night!? and went to bed. I'm sorry but a fairly new couple on valentines day would be up all night having fun. absolute bull dust!

      suash - 2013-02-21 10:42

      It's not an accident when you fire more than 4 rounds at a closed door without knowing who's behind it especially if you've got someone you love in the house with you.

      lex.krog - 2013-02-21 10:42

      Well commented indeed - a utter tragic happening - your comment reads Sad and Devastating in-one & for all involved - The Gods are crying with & 4 the families involved. Sorrow - Anger - Hurt - Pain - will follow 4 a long time to come, no matter what the ending - The TRUTH has a way of showing itself in time ... God shall give Peace and Onus ...

      FREE Prof. Karabus...NOW!! - 2013-02-21 10:43

      @Hettie and others making similar claims for Oscar to pay.....Don't you think that if this is a genuine tragic accident....That Oscar hasn't suffered enough???

      suash - 2013-02-21 10:45

      @baney.dino.5249 Your comments makes the most sense on the forum thus far. He does sound like a guy that would beat a woman. It's a shame that so many woman think he's innocent and not capable of being a possessive, jealous individual with a temper.

      brian.m.roberts.5 - 2013-02-21 11:00

      I cannot agree that Raquel has made either a sensible or a beautiful comment. As per brian.enslin's excellent comment at 10h02, if you believe OP's statement then he did intentionally kill the person behind the door. The only tragic "accident" is that he did not know it was Reeva. Are you all saying it would have been OK if it had been someone else (like an unarmed 17 year old burglar)? In my caveman view I don't get why it is so important what schedule murder this is. He is a man whose paranoia borders on psychotic and he purposefully killed someone behind a closed door! He is a murderer (of some schedule). The only tragedy is the loss of Reeva.

      FREE Prof. Karabus...NOW!! - 2013-02-21 11:02

      @Suash "He does sound like a guy that would beat a woman." Just read what you've dimwit!! SOUNDS LIKE...HUH??? REALLY NOW?? He SOUNDS LIKE A GUY THAT WOULD BEAT A WOMAN?????

      emma.strydom.12 - 2013-02-21 11:06

      Thank you Raquel my sentiments exactly

      xhoxho.zulu - 2013-02-21 11:19

      Just a few unanswered questions, How many of us live with a partner? From the evidence on the table. Question 1.) Which one of you that are living with a partner lock the bathroom door? I say so cause this to me is consistence with the witness who heard someone screaming before gunshots. she probably ran away screaming hence locking the door. 2. ) Four shots at an 'intruder' who is not retaliating? 3.) He heard some sounds coming from the bathroom so he actually forgot to check if it was his girlfriend before reaching for the gun which by the way stays under the bed? lets not forget he knew there were 2 people in the house already.

      lestine.stevens - 2013-02-21 11:53

      @Raquel..very touching and true, but Oscar had every intention to kill someone. You don't fire three times at a target with a 100% hit in almost vertical line..head, chest (tru arm) and legs - the man demonstrated chilling accuracy...he took no prisoner that is cold-blooded kill in military terms

      leeanne.augustyn - 2013-02-21 11:55

      Sy lewe is elkegeval verwoes, of hy skuldig is of nie, en of hy nou `n olimpiese ster is of `n doodgewone mens, slegs hy weet of dit `n ongeluk was of nie en net hy moet die res van sy lewe saamleef met wat hy gedoen het en die seer en pyn wat veroorsaak is deur sy daad, al was dit `n ongeluk of nie, sal hy soos deur die hof besluit betaal vir sy daad, so wat is die punt daarin om aanhou te bespiegel en mekaar se opinies te bevraagteken

      nads.delange - 2013-02-21 16:56

      It's only homicide if he did not intend to kill. 4 shots = intention to kill.

      OracleSA - 2013-02-21 21:51

      Well said there. I totally agree with you. "Why as a society do we always think the worst of people even if they were heroes in the past. What Reeva's family is going through is absolutley horrible but what Oscar and his family is going through must be like hell on earth especially if it was an accident....Too sad.....for all involved. " I don't think it was deliberate, but lets see what comes of it, we are not here to judge people.

  • Hendrica Potter - 2013-02-21 09:52

    Good luck Oscar. The Lord will be on your side today and I truly believe tha it has been an accident

      Jesus - 2013-02-21 10:08

      Yes Wendell and one day you too will die

      linda.horsfield.77 - 2013-02-21 10:32

      Would you feel the same way if it was YOUR daughter??????????????

      hugh.rix.5 - 2013-02-21 10:34

      Hendrica I believe that you should not involve the Lord in this issue. Funny isnt it how many criminals suddenly become Born Again

      themba.thwala.775 - 2013-02-21 11:07

      Where does the Bible say The Lord will stand on the side of cold-blooded murderous freaks?

      susan.smit.7 - 2013-02-21 11:29

      The Lord will give him strength to go on. Good luck oscar. Only u and God know the truth. We are not here to judge?

      lestine.stevens - 2013-02-21 11:57 that is one of the best COMMENTS EVER! A real man would've turned the gun on himself AMEN!!!

      Jesus - 2013-02-21 14:24

      And according to the bible Adam and Eve weren't the 1st people on earth.

  • Michael Demesmaeker - 2013-02-21 09:54

    Good luck today to Oscar and his defence team. They did an excellent job yesterday tearing apart that idiot Botha.

      punungwe - 2013-02-21 10:11

      Botha is not an idiot. He is just doing his job. I admit he could have done it more diligently and meticulously. But he IS NOT WRONG to investigate Oscar. It would be wrong for him not to because Oscar is such a famous person.

      michael.demesmaeker - 2013-02-21 11:18

      100% I agree with you Oscar needs to be investigated. What Im saying is this is a massive case and the first person they bring in is completely unprepared. "The neighbor is 600m away" 20 mins later it was only 300m. Then change that your now not opposing bail mid way through. Had no concrete evidence and I understand its not the trial itself now but if Botha felt Oscar would be a flight risk etc, at least have the reasons for thinking that or am I wrong? Botha had all these plans to somehow prove that it was pre meditated then had nothing for the defence.. He was chewed apart, neverMIND the fact that he himself is under investigation..

      carissa.kleynhans - 2013-02-21 11:27

      Botha himself is being charged with attempted murder, so that doesn’t make him any better to can judge. Anyone can make a horrible mistake. You are no better to judge as well. First take the plank out of your own eye, and then you will see clearly to remove the speck from someone else eye.

      susan.smit.7 - 2013-02-21 11:30

      Botha is defnitief n idiot!

      susan.smit.7 - 2013-02-21 11:38

      Sterkte Oscar! Net jy en God weet die waarheid. Maar jy is mens ek persoonlik glo dat hierdie n tragiese gebeurtenis is. Ek glo dit is vir die steenkamp familie net so moeilik. Maar geensins het hulle al in die media modder gegooi soos n Klomp idiots op die blad. Ek is nie hier om te oor deel sal wag vir uit slag maar wens jou en die familie nogtans sterkte toe.

      clemens.kiessig - 2013-02-21 17:00

      susan.smit....darem laat jy my giggel...klomp idiots op die site maar darem is jy nie hier om te oordeel nie....bwahahahahahahahahahaha

  • Michelle van Zyl - 2013-02-21 09:57

    My prayers are with you Oscar! The cross examination put a lot of doubt in the story of the Investigative Officer. A man who shot at a taxi full of innocent people. Now that def is grounds for premeditated murder!! An innocent beautiful woman was killed yes but it is an innocent woman whom he loved dearly and had future plans with and would never in a millions years have dreamed of ever even hurting her! Its already hell enough for him to know he'll never be able to see her or hold her ever again. We as South African citizens are too quick to convict and believe what we want. We only want to know people when the going is good but when the going gets tough we get going. Not fair..

      Charlton Forsyth - 2013-02-21 10:05

      I wish more people were less judgmental ! Well put , our prayers go out to both families. Is the investigating officer out on bail ? Surely his shooting was pre meditated ?

      louise.watson.14268 - 2013-02-21 10:35

      I agree

      themba.thwala.775 - 2013-02-21 10:56

      Except if it was your daughter who was involved, you'd be singing a completely different song for sure

      nicole.cittert - 2013-02-21 11:44

      Let us remember that the investigative officer is not the defendant here, and the details that have been released regarding the taxi shooting are sketchy at best. Interesting how so many Oscar supporters who tote "thou shalt not judge" are ever so quick to condemn the investigative officer. Personally I feel there are many holes in Oscar's version of events, but the case will eventually hinge on forensic evidence.

      Michelle van Zyl - 2013-02-21 12:43

      Thou shall not judge and we are not judging the investigative officer. He was judging Oscar unfairly knowing what he had previously done himself, we merely put it out there that if you can judge you will be judged as well. Yes I would be sad if it was my daughter obviously, but if I knew how much the man that killed her by accident loved her I and that he didn't mean to do it that would be a different story. It would never bring her back but it wouldn't help me to be angry or upset for the rest of my life. My prayers are with Reeva's family too, its a terrible tragedy and should not happen to anyone.

      brian.enslin - 2013-02-21 17:32

      According to Michelle, if you kill someone you loved and had plans for the future, we should just forgive you. Its fine, don't worry about the person who died, he loved her ... The ignorance to the severity of this crime is mind boggling!! Take Oscars story as the truth, he is still guilty of murder. The degree of which can be decided by the Judge. But he still murdered someone. His own statement says so. His intention to kill is in his words!!

      boikarabelo.boika - 2013-02-22 08:42

      There's a lot wrong things in this whole case. Oscar may have done a terrible mistake, I'll give him the benefit of the doubt. A couple of things may still take him to jail. 1. It is not safe(and against the law) to keep your gun laying around, 2. For someone who's paranoid about crime as Oscar to leave a door unlocked while going to sleep???? highly inconsistent to the fact that you have your gun by your side when you sleep. 3. Did you fire a warning shot first. 4. If you have a security system did you try and ring panic button to call for immediate help. 5. If Oscar is right, then Reeva would have been up when Oscar went to close the balcony door, the big question here is why didn't Reeva not offer to close the door and leave a disabled new lover to struggle while she stays in bed. 6. Was this the first time that Reeva ever went to the bathroom that time of the morning in all the visits to Oscars place. If yes then Oscar is right to have assumed a burglar. In any-case were the lights off in the bathroom when shots were fired.

  • mengelbrecht1 - 2013-02-21 09:58

    It seems that many people are forgetting that this is a bail hearing only. No forensic evidence is available yet. What is a fact is that Oscar killed her and will be facing a murder charge, maybe not premeditated but murder nevertheless.

      brytzishiri - 2013-02-21 10:29

      so true @mengelbrecht1, this is just a tip of the iceberg. Forensics usually take longer than a week so a lot of evidence is still to come.

      leonard.w.gray - 2013-02-21 10:35

      Oscar killed someone. He has to face the music. You can't just expect the whole world to forgive you or believe your story after you shot someone 3 times.

  • - 2013-02-21 09:58

    Well said

  • - 2013-02-21 09:59

    Well said

  • Sthembiso Jali - 2013-02-21 10:01

    have kenny kunene arrived ? such a show off.

  • Thandi Manjati - 2013-02-21 10:02

    This is sad indeed...Oscar's account of events is that Reeva was still alive after the 4 question is, did Reeva not scream after the 1st shot? Chances are she did if she was why did Oscar continued with 3 more shots if he thought it was an intruder? Just wondering... Only God and Oscar know...may the truth prevail and may both families be comforted at this time....RIP beautiful Reeva..

      zet.vakala - 2013-02-21 10:13

      That's exactly my question Thandi. After the first shot she naturally would have screamed his name. What was his response to that scream, three more shots? Hopefully Gerrie Nel will ask that question as the trial continues.

      Thandi Manjati - 2013-02-21 10:37

      If the ballistic investigations prove the investigator's predictions that the shots were discharged at an angle and at height then it would imply that he was wearing his prosthetic limbs when he was shooting through that door. This would mean he was not vulnerable and was not in immediate danger at all as we all know that he is an athletics champion and is well capable of running. I guess we will only know when the investigation reports are back.

      lancerobrts - 2013-02-21 10:38

      3 shots hit Reeva, one in the arm, one in the hip and one in the head. I'm pretty sure that if the head shot was the first one she wouldn't be able to scream. I've never been shot, but I think the g forces involved must be intense, and the last thing on your mind is screaming. It's not like being hit by a fist or anything like that.

      hettie.hansen.3 - 2013-02-21 10:51

      Thandi exactly.I would have warn my partner of the impeding danger that I think we are in before the fact not after. Prayers to both families especially Reevas.

  • lynette.hugo - 2013-02-21 10:05

    Baie sterkte Oscar en onthou, ons dien n Regverdige God, hy ken die waarheid, en die waarheid sal see vier.

      Leon Young - 2013-02-21 10:25

      en waar was die god om onskuldige reeva te beskerm

      Patricia - 2013-02-21 11:24

      What about Reeva and her family? Believing in a righteous God does not take away our personal responsibility to care about the safety of others and to act responsibly.

      nicole.cittert - 2013-02-21 11:46

      en wat is die waarheid lynette?

  • frank.vennard - 2013-02-21 10:06

    Extract from Yesterdays hearing - 13:48 - Roux: A spent bullet cartridge was found in the toilet bowl that wasn't discovered by your officers. Botha: Yes. A cartridge, Not a bullet ,or part of.Impossible to fire a shot through a door,and the cartridge end up on the other side of the door.

  • corne.devenier - 2013-02-21 10:11

    In all of the prosecutors facts i have not once give a motive for murder. All murders have motives.

      lestine.stevens - 2013-02-21 12:14

      true I was wondering myself. The balistics test will confirm if at all whether Oscar made a conserted effort to 'aim' at the 'target' when he fired - that will confirm intent. Motive can be constructed or pre-suppose, childhood,insecurity, disability, infidelity, etc

      brian.enslin - 2013-02-21 17:37

      Oh my hat! Oscar gave motive - He felt vulnerable and reacted as he feared for his life and that of Reeva. So he fired into the door three times. His motive (taking his statement as the truth) is fear for his and her life. However the courts may not look at this highly, since there was NO direct threat on his life. Bathroom door closed ... The constitution does not allow for a life to be taken under such weak circumstances.

  • lisa.foxcroft.5 - 2013-02-21 10:11

    Even if Oscar walk free,only he and he alone knows what happend on the night of the shooting,Why is francois Hougaardt saying he is not allowed to speak to the media and that he would not speak now,does he know something we dont,Maybe Reeva dump Oscar that night too be with Francois,And he decided if i cant have you nobody will,I would say get a professional clean cop to re-do the whole investigating and start from fresh.To assalt/rape or murder any one is a crime committed and you must be pannished no matter what trigger you do do such a violent crime.

      rita.dutoit1 - 2013-02-21 10:19

      Lisa Francois is involved with someone else and he and Reeva have been friends for years

  • christiaan.viljoen.372 - 2013-02-21 10:14


      Bundubabe - 2013-02-21 10:18

      Do couples in relationships LOCK bathroom doors? Why did she lock it? To feel safe? Why would an intruder break into the bathroom and then lock the door?!

  • amanda.potgieter.71 - 2013-02-21 10:14

    Kom nou. Die ondersoek beampte sit met 7 SEWE moordklagtes teen hom. Hierdie regering bewys weereens hoe siek hulle is man. Kan julle nie sien wat hier aangaan nie. Oscar is nou die teiken vir ons sogenaamde regering. Gee die man 'n kans goeiste hoe stupid is julle. Ons regering bestaan uit tronkvoels en moordenaars. Nou stenig julle die een wat 'n fout gemaak het. Pistorius familie staan agter jul broer en seun. laat die media maar 'n bespotting van hulself maak. Idiote. Ek raak net al hoe meer kwaad vir wat hier aan die gang is.

      David Jacobs - 2013-02-21 10:27

      I totally agree with you Amanda.I believe Oscar did not do it the way they make it out to be .Be strong Oscar

      Marshall September - 2013-02-21 10:29

      Julle almal is nou teen die regering maar dis nie hulle wat Reeva vermoor, dis mos daai jong. Idioot.

      linda.horsfield.77 - 2013-02-21 10:35

      Love your logic! The investigating officer is accused of a crime - so Oscar must go free! Shooting 4 times is NOT a mistake it is a DECISION. He INTENDED to kill someone - whether it was Reeva or someone else!

      david.devilliers.1447 - 2013-02-21 11:03

      I just want to say, that yes the investigating officer has skeletons in his closet, but then again so do most of us. This isnt about him or anyone else, its about a guy that shot his girlfriend to death! One shot could be an accident but 4??? Come on grow up and use your common sense! Woman get abused, raped and murdered everyday! What a great excuse saying that it was an intruder who has come to rob or kill, but locks themselves in the bathroom, really? Jealousy in men are at an extreme and they have no control at all! I have first hand experience. A young woman was MURDERED there is no other word! May he suffer for what he as done. Men need to respect woman and stop hurting them, we are afterall no capable of defending ourselves against men, they are stronger an a man that hurts a woman is nothing more than a COWARD! I hope Oscars concience kills him and may it haunt him for the rest of his life. No matter what could have caused the arguement no man has the right to KILL!

      Patricia - 2013-02-21 11:29

      Wat van Reeva? Dit her niks met die regering te doen nie, as hy haar vermoor het moet hy betaal daarvoor. Of is haar lewe minder werd as syne?

      nicole.cittert - 2013-02-21 11:48

      are you a conspiracy theorist in disguise?

  • bryan.culross - 2013-02-21 10:15

    I spoke with Oscar at my gym approximately Nov last year (it was the day after his birthday) and I was surprised at how frankly and openly he was. He made mention of deaths threats been made against him, telephone recordings containing certain evidence and rogue elements in the cops / scorpions / whatever who were his enemies. Whilst I didn't get the impression from the 20 minute chat they he felt he was in mortal danger, I was certainly left with the impression that he had enemies and feared them somewhat. By closing comment to him was "Oscar, just continue as you are doing". Guilty / not guilty one must always have compassion (for Reeva's family as well) and we must always remember that by the grace of God that we are not in a similar position to Oscar. May God's light shine on Oscar, his family and Reeva's family at this time and may Reeva rest in peace.

      karin.hattingh.96 - 2013-02-21 10:51

      Thank you for sharing that Bryan. :-( This is all so sad. God bless us all, we need it.

      brian.m.roberts.5 - 2013-02-21 11:08

      Sounds like a paranoid schizophrenic to me! Maybe his defense can use your statement.

      emma.strydom.12 - 2013-02-21 11:16

      Thank you for sharing this Bryan and yes it is is only by the grace of God that we are not in a position like Oscar. I just wish the people would back off and not condemn the man so easily.

      nurse.helenk - 2013-02-21 11:22

      Why don't you contact his defense team instead of peddling heresay on a newsboard? How much is the Pistorius PR team paying you?

      Brown Phelo Gorder - 2013-02-21 11:28

      u r a Pathetic liar and u kn0w and 1 wud w0nda y hes g0t s0 many enemies in the 1st what br0ught 0n the death threat???This 0scar dude is a Lunatic that mst b jailed in a c0rrecti0nal services Asylum!end 0f the st0ry!

      lestine.stevens - 2013-02-21 12:20

      @byron..this could mean he prepared himself mentally to ACT if this at all happen and we now know he responded with ruthless precision

  • linky.odendaal - 2013-02-21 10:16

    Clearly the charges that now suddenly pop up against the investigating officer are intimidation from the defence.

      eric.summers.9406 - 2013-02-21 11:19

      They were reinstated on feb 4.

  • Annine Noordgaard - 2013-02-21 10:17

    Thinking of all OP's family today. Stay strong.

  • mellissa.smith.906 - 2013-02-21 10:20

    The Facts are he killed a unarmed person, stranger or not....Let's say it was a burglar...Would it still be a accident?? He made a choice to shoot shots at the toilet door because he heard something....Instead of being trigger happy he could have shot one warning shot into the air....Instead of making sure his girlfriend was safe, instead of getting himself and his girlfriend out of dangers way, he tried to play hero....I believe it could have been a accident but he still made a choice to go head first, instead of getting out....if he felt Vulnerable as he said Why not get out and call the police .... If it was a bugler he would claim Self-defense, Right? Being Afraid and feeling Vulnerable does not make grounds for Self-defense...Unfortunately in our country criminals get away with a lot and if he cant proof that the burglar had a gun or weapon and was going to kill or harm him, Self-defense is of the table...this hole thing comes down to the fact that he just fired his gun...

      Nico Eksteen - 2013-02-21 10:57

      When acting in self-defence, the general rule is that you may not apply more force than is necessary to repel the attack. He obviously went overboard. I'll be very surprised if he gets away scot-free.

      Patricia - 2013-02-21 11:35

      The man is a world class athlete, and the so-called intruder was locked in the bathroom. Why did he not get out of the house and call the security or fire shots into the air to alert the security that there was a problem? One shot is an accident - four is a decision!!

  • Bundubabe - 2013-02-21 10:22

    Do couples in relationships LOCK bathroom doors? Why did she lock it? To feel safe? Why would an intruder break into the bathroom and then lock the door?!

      Nico Eksteen - 2013-02-21 10:50

      To hide from the gunslinger?

      karin.hattingh.96 - 2013-02-21 10:54

      I was brought up to lock the bathroom door. And even if I wasn't, if I was in the bathroom and heard my boyfriend shouting that I must call the police, I would most certainly lock the door as quick as possible.

  • brytzishiri - 2013-02-21 10:25

    even if it was a burglar he still has a case to answer, who shoots four times at a burglar you cannot see and not even fighting back. This was execution.

  • ronel.strauss.12 - 2013-02-21 10:25

    Strongs will have my support untill proven guilty of murdering her on purpose.'you thats without sin...cast the first stone"

      linda.horsfield.77 - 2013-02-21 10:36

      Would you feel the same way if it was your daughter???????

      robyn.v.millar - 2013-02-21 10:46

      Linda, of course if it's your own daughter, you'd feel differently, just like you'd feel differently if someone had died at the hands of your son. It's all relative, it's all personal.

      karin.hattingh.96 - 2013-02-21 10:54

      And if it was your son Linda?

  • jackie.badenhorst - 2013-02-21 10:26

    Botha can not continue with Oscars case??? Why not?? How many cases has he been investigating for the state since the first case was brought up against him? Why only now is the case against him re-opended?? Is the defence scared that he might have a negative impact on their case?? Each trail on each person is handled seperate? Dont try to take the spotlight off the current court hearing!!!!!

      rita.dutoit1 - 2013-02-21 10:33

      fact is Jackie that Roux pulled him to pieces yesterday already. He is not trustworthy as a detective he should have known better than to go adn contaminate a crime scene, and not do a proper investigation

  • lanie.vanrooyen - 2013-02-21 10:26

    The very sad fact is. Once there were got there is only one. What really happened...planned or not, we will never know, but did he shoot her, yes he did. Fact. Lets not forget that someones child died, and someones child fired the shot. THis is the sad sad reality.

  • Sam Ka Dikgatlhong - 2013-02-21 10:28

    Who killed Reeva? Its Oska or the police officer?It anoys me when money makes a joke out of other people's lives..I have detected that Oska is a lier and must go to jail kant

      madelein.vanduuren - 2013-02-21 21:23

      Who's Oska?

  • Miles Clarke - 2013-02-21 10:28

    You tell me why they want to prolong this case. Botha can't carry on. Not going to be aloud its all part of the attempt to prolong. If Botha committed a crime he must face it why bring it up now or did they forget about him seeing him on TV made them remember about it.

      karin.hattingh.96 - 2013-02-21 10:56

      No Miles, he was charged on the 4th of Feb already..

  • timothy.tanzer.5 - 2013-02-21 10:30

    What if she ran to the bathroom and Oscar bashed the door in first with the cricket bat removing a panel so he could see her and then took the shots... Trust me.. a head shot is not an easy thing even with clear line of sight let alone through a door blind... the fact that all four bullets hit her says something that he probably got really lucky or he could see her... just saying

      karin.hattingh.96 - 2013-02-21 10:57

      There are four bullet holes in the door...

      lestine.stevens - 2013-02-21 12:29

      he is a great shot, no doubt, he maintained a 'tight-holding patttern', 3shots in vertical line, top-to-bottom

      madelein.vanduuren - 2013-02-21 21:24

      Only 3 bullets hit her, not 4.

      timothy.crowley.14 - 2013-02-21 22:27

      Perhaps he could see her after the first shot through the hole the bullet made?

  • Charlton Forsyth - 2013-02-21 10:30

    And Botha blamed Oscar this morning for the charges being reinstated! What a lowlife , a typical example of our wonderful Justice system. Why is he out on bail ?

      aneesa.jacobs.7 - 2013-02-22 08:42

      Botha's charges are a little bit different. He is a police officer that shot at a taxi that a suspected murderer was driving. He didn't shoot his girlfriend 3 times through a locked bathroom door. Oscar is not innocent, he just has enough money to pay an advocate to blow holes in the prosecutions case. SAPS failed to do a proper investigation, that's it! The situation Botha finds himself in is a tactic from Oscars team to discredit him, MONEY TALKS!

  • timothy.tanzer.5 - 2013-02-21 10:30

    What if she ran to the bathroom and Oscar bashed the door in first with the cricket bat removing a panel so he could see her and then took the shots... Trust me.. a head shot is not an easy thing even with clear line of sight let alone through a door blind... the fact that all four bullets hit her says something that he probably got really lucky or he could see her... just saying

  • Promise Ozuzu - 2013-02-21 10:31

    All you guyz singing there worship support for OP, i hope and prayer that your family will not feel the pain the girl familying is feeling now!

  • derrick.villiers - 2013-02-21 10:32


      Nico Eksteen - 2013-02-21 10:45

      Piet is still struggling with the Lotz case. I'm not so sure.

  • marsha.barenbrug - 2013-02-21 10:32

    Honestly.....for someone who was so paranoid for his safety, the death threats and the insecurity in the complex. It never occurred to this scared person to perhaps NOT sleep with the door wide open? Wow I wish I felt that unsafe in my complex...

  • leonard.w.gray - 2013-02-21 10:32

    The police in the country are a total shambles. I can't believe they would assign such a high profile case to a moron like Hilton Botha. The public wants to know the truth of this matter and not have a incompetent fool run the case.

  • corne.vanrooyen.182 - 2013-02-21 10:32

    I think Botha should prove his own innocence before he tries to prove someone else guilty, he belongs behind bars himself!

  • ferdi.preller - 2013-02-21 10:34

    Oh my word? Did I miss the bail application? Why is every idiot here ranting and raving about guilty or not? They only have to decide on the matter at hand, and that is if he can be released on bail...NOT A CRIMINAL TRIAL! State can obviously not prove intension of premeditated murder, neither that he can/will leave the country, so it is straight forward. Lets wait for the magistrate's ruling in this matter and respect all parties involved. In the absence of all truth and lies, that is the most decent thing to do as a respectable human...

  • timothy.tanzer.5 - 2013-02-21 10:35

    What if she ran to the bathroom and Oscar bashed the door in first with the cricket bat removing a panel so he could see her and then took the shots... Trust me.. a head shot is not an easy thing even with clear line of sight let alone through a door blind... the fact that all four bullets hit her says something that he probably got really lucky or he could see her... just saying

      Bron Woodrow - 2013-02-21 10:47

      Just making sure...weren't the bullet holes in the bathroom door?

      Marietjie Muijs Neethling - 2013-02-21 11:03

      You are an idiot. Go write a fiction book - your imagination is running wild.

      Nico Eksteen - 2013-02-21 11:11

      Bullet holes were in the closed toilet door. The toilet is a seperate small room within the bathroom. Most cartridges were found in the bathroom suggesting that he was firing through the toilet door whilst in the bathroom.

      Brown Phelo Gorder - 2013-02-21 11:11

      Tim y0u are s00 0n p0int my man! Mine is,2 add 0n this,he sh0t her afta breaking the d00r d0wn then cl0sd it again and sh0t 3 m0re 2 make it luk like an accident he says it is!hence m0r buletz wer and wil stil b disc0verd!..i say back hs f0rensic pe0ple 0ff and all0w the States f0rensic get 2 the very b0tt0m 0f this!

      samantha.lambard - 2013-02-21 20:37

      the toilet is only 1.4 by 1 meter she could ran no where, but what im asking is if she was there to aise her self why lock the door but then roux said because she is scared this already a contradiction, couldnt she answer him when he shouted, obviously he hit her first in the other parts of the body before her head otherwise she would be in the floor before get hit in her hip and arm, so didnt she sream?????????????????

  • suash - 2013-02-21 10:36

    More than 4 shots were fired as the police found one casing in the passage and 3 in the toilet, Oscar's forensic team found another casing in the toilet bowl. The fact is that Oscar killed Reeva, whether it was a murder or culpable homicide is what the court case is all about. My opinion is that he killed her in a crime of passion or fit of rage, whatever you want to call it.

      ainfield - 2013-02-21 22:19

      I agree with you it was a crime of passion. If he was so nervous of burglars why is there no alarm or beams set his story does not add up.

  • danilo.speelman - 2013-02-21 10:37

    Lets gooo ! #teamOscar !

      karin.hattingh.96 - 2013-02-21 11:01

      I like that #teamOscar ! Good on you. :-)

  • rianda.pieterse.9 - 2013-02-21 10:39

    Who is the one actually in trial? Botha or Pistorius??

  • Mark Solomon - 2013-02-21 10:40

    This is bizaar. Botha with attempted murder charges against him giving evidence in another murder case. The blind leading the blind here. Ai the SA justice system .....