Libya: SA will not take sides

2011-03-01 14:20

Pretoria - Muammar Gaddafi is no longer, "technically speaking", the leader of Libya or the forces loyal to him, but still wields "major influence" in the events unfolding there, South African international relations officials said on Tuesday.

South Africa's ambassador to Libya Mohammed Dangor and International Relations and Co-operation Deputy Minister Marius Fransman were speaking at a press conference in Cape Town.

Dangor said Gaddafi was "technically correct" when he said he was not the leader of the country.

In an interview with the BBC, Gaddafi said: "If they want me to step down, what do I step down from? I'm not a monarch or a king."

In the same interview he said he was not the president and that his position was an honorary one.

Dangor said Libya was a state at war with itself.

Fransman said Gaddafi had a major influence in events in Libya, but that "legally, he is not the head of state".

Asked why South Africa had not condemned Gaddafi's call for forces loyal to him to kill any opposition, Fransman said that South Africa condemned all forms of violence including that carried out by Libyan authorities.

When asked if South Africa would consider granting exile to the Libyan leader if it brought an end to the violence in the country, Fransman said that the South African government could not deal with hypothetical questions.

He said South Africa would not take sides in the dispute.

  • Alwyn - 2011-03-01 14:24

    Of course SA will claim to be neutral but we all know better,The ANC has a very long relationship with Gadafi,same as with Mugabe another idiot clinging to power,and Zuma is exactly the same.power is wealth and they are in it for the money,the tax payers money

      Calmone - 2011-03-01 14:38

      So true.

      Warren - 2011-03-01 15:57

      What's the bet if Gaddafi was getting the upper hand the goverment would be 100% behind him. But one thing's for sure, if the goverment is saying they are not going to take sides on Gaddafi then you must know, they are absolutly positive that he is on his way out!

      mdebruin2 - 2011-03-01 16:26

      I agree with your sentments, Alwyn. As far as I'm concerned, most African leaders assumes a "natural right" to political power. The capital that they have access to in the process as well, of course.

  • francois.roux1 - 2011-03-01 14:33

    The problem with mugwumpery is some time or another you bliksem off to the one side on your head...

      izzonline - 2011-03-01 15:51

      Kwaaaaaa. Damn i like that. So i should expect this two tomfools to concus soon.

  • BigMoose - 2011-03-01 14:37

    Fransman, jou draadsitter.

      Rudie - 2011-03-01 14:54

      No Trekker

      Liesbet - 2011-03-01 16:41

      @ Rudie - SHARP!

  • Livhuwani - 2011-03-01 14:38

    the are allies for gaddaffi, if you are not condoning brutal killing why you keep quite.Gaddaffi was here in SA, why our President never comment on Lybia unrest,honestly saying situation in Lybia will come to SA,because those in Power are enriching their fammilies and Friends. People will get tired about this goverment of tenderprenures for family.

      GT - 2011-03-01 15:15

      Livhuwani - Ask these 2 questions to the ANC. 1. How much funding has Gadaffi provided directly to the ANC in the last 10 years 2. How much business has been garnered on Zuma's last visit to Libya and to whom. It is a disgrace.

      lldoidge - 2011-03-01 15:31

      Gidaffi, has donated big money to the ANC! It's not about human rights, it's about the only thing those idiots understand i.e. MONEY!!!!

      johanduv - 2011-03-01 16:10

      What on earth is a "Tenderprenure"? Was it seen with red lights in the sky last night?

  • ApexPredator - 2011-03-01 14:38

    Yes, when it comes taking a moral stand on an issue our goverment is very selective. Some call it being "diplomactic" others call it being "ball-less".

      lldoidge - 2011-03-01 15:31

      Unless of course it involves Israel!

  • Livhuwani - 2011-03-01 14:41

    am supporting Britain to send the army because Lybia/gaddaffi and his kids are killing people.

      lldoidge - 2011-03-01 15:32

      All decent humans support you 100%

  • michal.mierzwa - 2011-03-01 14:42

    Use and abuse

  • Gorilla - 2011-03-01 14:43

    I don't think it's a bad call to remain neutral. But if they do decide to remain neutral, they should not take sides either way. I do feel though that they (the ANC) would have felt abandoned if other countries had "not taken sides" during their struggle against apartheid. Sometimes it's needed that one takes up a struggle. the ANC are not strangers to this fact.

      Jim - 2011-03-01 15:40

      What the f**k could useless SA do anyway,leave it to the boys who know what they are doing.

      Gorilla - 2011-03-01 15:46

      Jim? what would you want them to do?? All one expects is a bit of backbone and a statement of ones position. They are hypocrits who are afraid (or unable) to state their case.

  • Made_In_SA - 2011-03-01 14:45

    SA wont take sides with any of the countries that harbored/ trained or supplied terrorists, sorry I mean veterans of the struggle.. just look at Zim as a classic example!

      lldoidge - 2011-03-01 15:33

      Eish! jgillow7 go have a dop before you burst a vessel!

      Gorilla - 2011-03-01 15:46

      jgillow7. you are a knob.

      Totman - 2011-03-01 15:48

      @jgillow7. Were significant piece of comment. You immediately fall back on a colour. You agree that black are killing whites. Your comment shown that you disapprove of the blacks that got killed, but support it when whites are getting killed because you blame them for "throwing their toys out of their cots" It was than right that blacks was unhappy with it, but whites must not be. One wrong does make another wrong right? Careful for what you write. You are not capable for commenting on issues like this. Maybe I am the same colour than you, but I know for a fact is that one of is not so intelligent. O,..yes! The last thing. What "coke dome" are you talking of? Which year was it? Careful!!! 1st go and google "coke dome"!!!

      sean.sharkie - 2011-03-01 16:59

      jgillow7, by your very own statement, the ANC are terrorists, since the ANC they were in power (i.e. the government) when your uncle was killed. (The Coca-Cola_Dome was opened in 1997).

  • Felix - 2011-03-01 14:49

    "South African government could not deal with hypothetical questions." Like: If we promise everyone houses, who will build all the houses we promised? If we promise everyone a ticket to heaven, will we get a discount for buying in bulk? If we promise to create 500 000 jobs, can we actually pull it off?

  • OB1 - 2011-03-01 14:52

    "Fransman said that South Africa condemned all forms of violence " - but not violence on its own farmers, no, here the SA govt encourage farm murders by singing songs at rallies that urge it, in fact they are even willing to go to court to be able to continue calling for the murder of farmers. Farmers ensure we have food to eat and make huge contributions to this country's economy, but you'd think they were enemies of the state, the way they are treated. The mind boggles.

  • burtfred - 2011-03-01 14:55

    Fransman has to be very careful about what he has to say, now that he is the "leader" of the ANC in the Western Cape, (if there is such a thing), and there is an election coming up shortly. Fransman, just remember, your voters are not all stupid all of the time.

  • Currie_Mafia - 2011-03-01 14:57


  • missmazwi - 2011-03-01 14:57

    Lame Duck ANC. Not take sides indeed. We will sit back while he slaughter's the Libyan people. Old Gadaffi has given too much money to the tawdry amoral ANC bribe-taker's. Were there not rumours at the time that Gadaffi helped pay for Jacob Zuma's rape trial or some of his legal issues? Of course we will not take sides

  • Currie_Mafia - 2011-03-01 14:59

    My granny has more balls than both Dangor & Fransman !!!

  • Hads - 2011-03-01 15:01

    I think that if the ANC knew where Libya was, they maybe would say something, but as usual they remain an embarrassment to all inteligent beings

  • Bandit - 2011-03-01 15:03

    bunch of cowards is what we are .... when our people were being slaughtered our "leaders" we screaming for assistance. Now we are the ones supplying guns to this monster for him to kill the innocent. REALLY ASHAMED I AM .... WHAT PATHETIC LEADERSHIP WE HAVE. Maybe we bought those planes and boats in the hope that SWAZILAND will attack us one day.

  • Bandit - 2011-03-01 15:04

    bunch of cowards is what we are .... when our people were being slaughtered our "leaders" we screaming for assistance. Now we are the ones supplying guns to this monster for him to kill the innocent. REALLY ASHAMED I AM .... WHAT PATHETIC LEADERSHIP WE HAVE. Maybe we bought those planes and boats in the hope that SWAZILAND will attack us one day.

  • taxpayer1 - 2011-03-01 15:04

    Granting exile to Gadafi is not hypothetical question but reality, instead of saying YES he just choose to avoid the question with silly excuses. "Dangor said Libya was a state at war with itself." then why hundres & thousands of foreigners would have risked their lives before to stay/work there who are now leaving country.I didn't know "honorary" positions give billions of dollars??!!!! stop fooling people around.

  • Bandit - 2011-03-01 15:05

    bunch of cowards is what we are .... when our people were being slaughtered our "leaders" we screaming for assistance. Now we are the ones supplying guns to this monster for him to kill the innocent. REALLY ASHAMED I AM .... WHAT PATHETIC LEADERSHIP WE HAVE. Maybe we bought those planes and boats in the hope that SWAZILAND will attack us one day.

      theoldmanofthemountains - 2011-03-01 16:12

      C'mmon Bandit, one more time...

      Red26 - 2011-03-01 16:19

      Yes, especially the boats.

  • max.maxwell - 2011-03-01 15:06

    As South Africa is a staunch supporter of dictatorships in general,in particular of Zimbabwe, Iran and Cuba, the ANC Government's position is as expected. Again, diplomacy "Africa-style" will probably pass without comment from the rest of the world!

      lldoidge - 2011-03-01 15:36

      Don't forget Venezuela! Eish! we sure pick them! Countries not noses!

  • Smindlo - 2011-03-01 15:10

    bloody useless, spineless cowards. our beautiful country is being driven to the dogs by these useless ANC idiots. screw ANC, screw all thats ANC.

  • eh - 2011-03-01 15:14

    I would think that not taking sides when a dictator (technically or non technically) is killing citizens of the country is actually taking sides against the citizens. Very much like what is happening in Zimbabwe.... SA sidesteps confronting Mugabe thereby allowing him to continue torturing and killing Zim citizens. I think it is a clear indication that SA leaders view power and wealth as wotthy of greater respect that citizens and human rights.

  • mauritz.bezuidenhoudt - 2011-03-01 15:14

    The government's 'pragmatic approach' of neutrallity and avoidance of hypothetical discussions does not in any way clear it from its moral guilt in this case. To keep silent and 'neutral' implicates it in this injustice. This is what you get from pragmatism as a substitute to moral principles

      emile.marais - 2011-03-01 18:25

      Well said Mauritz. The ANC is amoral in general so this is to be expected from them.

  • wjsmit - 2011-03-01 15:15

    Ag, wat my betref kan Suid Afrika en sy belaglike ANC en regering heeltemal in sy moer vlieg. Sommer nou !

  • Mdav-uyadav - 2011-03-01 15:16

    when the ANC LEADERS continues to see themselves involved in an ongoing revolution even when they are a ruling party, how can they cricise gaddafi when he is saying he defending the revolutionary gains and those fighting for basic human rights in the real mass revolutionare are seen to be counterrevolutionary. the ANC is real is openly symphathising with gaddafi its just that they cant help him like they do with Mugabe nextdoor in Zim

  • Paul - 2011-03-01 15:20

    You guys take sides against Isreal all the time !!!!!

  • sydney706 - 2011-03-01 15:31

    ‘Technically speaking’, ‘technically correct’??? Technically my A$$! The South African Government don’t have the balls to state publically that they support the Gaddafi dictatorship. For a revolutionary movement, our ANC government has got a very short memory... I would not be surprised if they fly Gaddafi over to SA in our own presidential plane to come play cards with Mogabe in Pretoria. The Ambassador and Deputy Minister clearly don’t understand their own message of democracy and ‘power to the people’. Their lack of support should make future ties a diplomatic breeze. World Class African Response!

  • Jason - 2011-03-01 15:36

    Silent deplomicy again!! Politics for doing nothing!

  • lldoidge - 2011-03-01 15:38

    Not taking sides but happily standing back and watching innocent Libyans being slaughtered! I suppose they can't say too much as they have a similar game plan should they ever lose an election in this country!

  • Francois - 2011-03-01 15:40

    Hey Fransman, you forgot the exclusions: Your sentece should have been: South Africa condemned all forms of violence including that carried out by Libyan authorities and excluding violence by Zanu PF against the people of Zimbabwe and violence inflicted on all farmers in South Africa.

  • Rocky - 2011-03-01 15:44

    I am so embarrased as a South African that our government is morally bankrupt. No spine and will never commit in case this or that happens. They should hang there heads in shame. The problem is they will not as it is there way of doing things with so many corrupt agendas.

  • Lebo - 2011-03-01 15:51

    While da lybians r fighting against dictatorship da western vulture whom also hav an influence in lybian chaos saw an opportunity 2 grasp da oil fields. des revolution in north afr bt dey sent ships, fightng jets 2 lybia as if dey care more abt lybians dan dey do wth egyptians n tunisians. lybian oil.

      colin langley - 2011-03-01 16:01

      i wish they bought in some fighter jets and ships to ship you off to school so you could learn how to type.

      lldoidge - 2011-03-01 16:17

      Lebo, writing isn't your strong point. Especially when your fingers are quicker than your brain!

      Totman - 2011-03-01 16:19

      I presume their are countries that would like to be involved in an oil rich country like Libya. Just like ours was before the riots.[For oil and what ever deals] The difference is the violence that are used against the people with a possibility of becoming worst. No favors are for free!!!

  • colin langley - 2011-03-01 15:53

    I wish all western nations decided to "sit on the fence" when it came to criticize the apartheid regime...the anc would have had a sh*t fit. Disgraceful conduct from your so called government...condoning the murder of innocent people in Libya. We see you for who your are ANC..we see you loud and clear! U have blood on your hands! Down with you!

  • izzonline - 2011-03-01 15:54

    South African government is just cheating here, hoping that someone, some country assists in being their spokesman because Gaddafi is their Brother Leader. Not good enough. Speak out. Innocent humans are losing lives there, regardless of what the internal agenda is of what sinister forces may be involved in this. Or at least tell Gaddafi in one of those president-to-president calls that dude, since you're saying your not a leader that, then so maar just votsek and led someone lead.

  • johanduv - 2011-03-01 16:03

    "...Fransman said that the South African government could not deal with hypothetical questions." Thank you, first and foremost for the true reflection of our government’s intellect. This is surely a questioned posed in the light of the former exiled Jean-Bertrand Aristide that the government housed in South-Africa with Tax payers money. The answer would be simple; of course we would accommodate a militant, why would we not, like our Cuban brothers so are our Libyan brothers. We allowed Mugabe into the country did we not?

  • Mdu - 2011-03-01 16:07

    There is so much hate going on in this forum. This way non of us are helping the country. The fact is ANC is not doing a good job but reading the comments on this forum makes me wonder what would happen if white people get into power. Clearly the whites in this forum hates blacks and I hope non of them holds higher position in any society.

      lldoidge - 2011-03-01 16:20

      Mdu, take your racist crap and shove it any orfice your choose. This site is for big people!!!! Now toddle off little racist!!!

      lldoidge - 2011-03-01 16:20

      meant to read any orfice of your choosing!

      colin langley - 2011-03-01 16:22

      Total rubbish!...we haven't pulled the race card, but here you come and pull it out...stick to the subject fool!..and no..i'm calling you a fool because you are black..i'm calling you a fool because your'e stupid

      SayWhat? - 2011-03-01 17:02

      Amen to that Colin!!

  • Macho Mike - 2011-03-01 16:08

    Typical response. The ANC will not take sides here, as the government has no backbone. They will sit on their brains waiting to see what happens, then take sides.

      SayWhat? - 2011-03-01 16:19

      What brains?? Must have one of the top 10 dumbest governments in the world!!

  • Sharon - 2011-03-01 16:08

    The Yellowback ANC government is too poop scared of Gaddafi to say or do anything. As far as they are concerned the slaughter of innocent people by Gaddafi and his thugs is right and just. The people are revolting against a man who has surpressed their lives, jailed anyone who dared question the rule of a senile man and who has starved them of the views of the outside world. The ANC should grow a pair and take a leaf out of the rest of worlds book and condemn Gaddafi for murdering innocent people just because they want change.

  • Totman - 2011-03-01 16:10

    Does the government knows that they are speaking against the youth L. They "started" this riots with there ...(place your own names) event. I am confused. JM learns from Gaddafi. NYL influence their young with kisses[the game] and the gov. sits in the

  • SayWhat? - 2011-03-01 16:14

    It's not SA that won't take sides, it's the f-cking idiot caln ANC! Why take sides with the Egypt uprising but not with Lybia??

      SayWhat? - 2011-03-01 16:18

      I meant idiot clan...

      keng - 2011-03-01 17:04

      The ANC will await the result in any conflict and once the winner is declared refer to previous ambiguous statement implying they always stood by the winner. It's purely business guys, morals have never been part of politics.

  • NV - 2011-03-01 16:40

    Of course we will not take sides. We love our dictators.

  • Jarryd Wiggill - 2011-03-01 16:59

    the problem is that our government does not have the balls to stand up for what is right. there is always some sort of an excuse as to why we cannot or will not stand up. If the government had any sort of integrity we would have slammed robert mugabe long time ago,but instead, we have "quiet diplomacy". The same is now happening with Gaddafi. What would happen if the same sort of uprising had to occur in our country? the same sort of oppression would occur. it is pathetic that with the most liberal and free constitution in the world, we cannot stand up and say that what is happening in libya is wrong. Have they forgotten now, for the first time in almost 17 years, how many lives were lost in the freedom struggle? why can they not stand with people who are going through, in principle, the same opression?

  • tlhox - 2011-03-01 17:08

    Not taking sides is the perfect thing to do. Our government has done the best thing, thats why I voted for them.

      SayWhat? - 2011-03-01 17:25

      But what about Egypt?? Thet took sides there..

      cptlabourlawyer - 2011-03-01 17:38

      Yes and Israel they are very quick to condemn (and then slyly hide all the help they get from Israel.

      lldoidge - 2011-03-01 17:50

      Keep voting for them twally. Just wait for the day you and other sheep wake up and don't vote for them. Another Libya coming! The only saving grace is that if we all boo together our wonderful army will run for the hills.

  • cptlabourlawyer - 2011-03-01 17:36

    Libya and its honorary leader stand for everything that our Constitution condemns and protects its citizens against. For these reasons alone our government has a duty to speak out. It may well be that they do not speak out as the Constitution is yet simply another law that can be ignored by the people who put it there in the first place.

      lldoidge - 2011-03-01 17:52

      We've come to learn, since the zumification of SA, that the constitution is only a piece of paper. It can and will be raped!

  • Met - 2011-03-01 18:20

    First want to see which hand contains the most dollars or oil contracts before we decide

  • maseratifitt - 2011-03-01 21:34

    Did the ANC not present Gadaffi with SA's highest award? If so, they have taken sides already.

  • maseratifitt - 2011-03-01 21:45

    I think I am immune to Fransman's drivel.

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