WikiLeaks: Mandela not spared

2010-11-29 17:10

Johannesburg - Former president Nelson Mandela was not spared in the swathe of revelations emerging from thousands of leaked US diplomatic cables, reports said on Monday.

Cables that had yet to be released would reveal the depth of Mandela's opposition to the war in Iraq, local media reported.

Mandela considered then US president George W Bush was incapable of thinking correctly and believed that Bush ignored calls by the United Nations for restraint in Iraq because the UN's then secretary general, Kofi Annan, was black, the cables are expected to show.

Other cables still to be released, meanwhile, would also show Mandela as being on the receiving end of criticism.

The US embassy in Pretoria admitted it had approached the government to warn it in advance about the messages, which reportedly including embarrassing criticism by the US of the anti-apartheid icon. 


The first batch of leaked cables showed how Mandela was shot down by his ANC party when he expressed a desire to meet ex-British prime minister Margaret Thatcher shortly after his release from prison in 1990.

Mandela had wanted to explain why the ANC had opposed Thatcher's policy of "constructive engagement" with the apartheid regime, but the ANC opposed the meeting, leaving Mandela "furious".

The cables also contained embarrassing revelations about how both South Africa and the US view Zimbabwe's leaders.

"The crazy old man", is how International Relations Minister Maite Nkoane Mashabane is said to refer to Zimbabwean President Robert Mugabe - a remark that was likely to cause a stir in Harare given that South Africa is overseeing the implementation of Zimbabwe's power-sharing agreement.

The cables also expose Washington's doubts about the leadership of Zimbabwean Prime Minister Morgan Tsvangirai.

While the man who has led democratic opposition to Mugabe for the past decade was "the indispensable element for opposition success" he risked becoming "possibly an albatross around their necks once in power", the then US ambassador to Zimbabwe wrote in 2007.

  • Oryx_ZA - 2010-11-29 17:55

    THis is where the danger of these things lie. I really thought it was awesome to have all these things released into the public, but considering the sensitivity of north Korea, iran and zimbabawe, there is going to be some serious back lash, that may make it extremly dangerous

      MrSpiderman - 2010-11-29 18:37

      Well done my friend! Slowly but certainly the wheel turns! Ask FW?

      savage182 - 2010-11-30 08:22

      I agree with you Oryk,it seems valis thinks the US own everything.Yes they are an ibfluencial power,but they are not the only ones that can backlash.we are all owned by the Feceral Reserve,which is not owned by America or Only Americans.Try not to be so blinkered or so foolish to think it is just america.

      Bratt - 2010-11-30 08:28

      No danger at all. All this covert action BS is what ends up landing countries in the sh*t. I say expose the whole lot. Let politics be clean and let us know what really happened. If you are willing to hide the truth, for whatever reason, you are guilty.

      Oryx_ZA - 2010-11-30 09:30

      Come one guys? There is nothing covert about this. I would imagine the real juicy stuff is real classified. Business acts exactly the same. A company with 100 employees will have a lot of individuals with personal ideas and a lot of internal chatter. That chatter will include strategies to deal with difficult clients, some ideas good, and some bad. Also because we are human, some chatter will even be humorous and even insulting to the client. However, when a formalized policy or POA is planned, a unified message is decided and agreed and that message is conveyed to the public. Not sure why government should be different?

      Dr. Zeek - 2010-11-30 15:33

      Oeyx, you're correct. About 4 million people had "access" to this "confidential" data.

      Gareth - 2010-11-30 15:52

      As someone once said, "Truth, you can't handle the truth." And thats why most people on earth are kept in the dark, people above them have to only feed them what they can handle!

  • Digit - 2010-11-29 18:12

    Personally I think it is a good thing because it holds the editors / emitters accountable. Ambassadors are guests in a host country, they too need to behave themselves in manners befitting their position. As for the spying order coming from SoS Clinton .... well, need anything more be said .... it just shows to what level of paranoia the US of A is and to what extent that will go to enforce their "War on Terror" that they are the sole makers and masters of .... Well done WIKILEAKS .... it is time the truth came out.

      kykw33r - 2010-11-29 18:41

      Wow so countries cant keep records of how to approach people in other countries? why not abolish embassies altogether? Countries having an embassy to communicate with the leadership of that country and keep record of personality traits and their policy was an idea spawned by Satan himself.

      Graham - 2010-11-30 11:54

      Like your comment about ambassadors behaving themselves in manners befitting their position. let's not hope that the rest of South Africa is not judged by the behaviour of our Ambassadors in other countries.

  • Valis - 2010-11-29 18:19

    The truth will out, information needs to be free. Secrecy breeds fascism, openness and transparency feeds democracy. Anyone who is against the release of information is also against democracy.

      kykw33r - 2010-11-29 18:43

      Why do you have the obscene obsession to know things that doesn't affect you? So your saying that information should be free, so you should communicate with your family on a public forum for us all to read?

      jeffreyknipe - 2010-11-29 19:17

      @ kykw33r - I'm not running the country. Government and their stance on all matters should be honest and public. But then again "honesty" and "government" never go in the same sentence ... in ANY country in the world. Some times every one agrees on how bad or silly a situation is, but then government steps out and says some thing that's "politically correct" but not really the truth. Some people will follow ANC or any party just because they feel indebted to them. Freedom of speech, freedom of information, freedom of reporters. It's all linked. Don't trust some one just because you feel the need to. Question every thing and remember, they are humans with power and that breeds greed. It's human, not black or white.

      savage182 - 2010-11-30 08:23

      lol Valis,so how was yr wife last night?????

      savage182 - 2010-11-30 08:25

      come on Valis,dont be a facist.i NEED to makes me feel democratic

      jacowium - 2010-11-30 12:03

      Dear savage182: Government actions are supposed to be transparent, domestic lives are private (i.e. non-transparent). See if you can understand the difference.

  • MrSpiderman - 2010-11-29 18:33

    Oops! Now why is this not suprising?

  • Boerseun - 2010-11-29 19:12

    "Crazy old men of Africa", what a good description.

      pointblankza - 2010-11-30 08:37

      Boerseun, you always see things that do not exist? Where do you see "crazy old men of Africa"?

      wer.pretorius - 2010-11-30 11:14

      Pointblankza: the articles quotes "The crazy old man"... And he is African... Dumbass!!

      jacowium - 2010-11-30 12:07

      Dear wer.pretorius: Mashabane referred to an individual, not the "MEN of Africa". Boerseun did try and put a different spin on it. And calling someone "dumbass" weakens any argument, BTW.

      Bratt - 2010-11-30 12:52

      @jacowium - Thank you.

      Patti Balnati - 2010-11-30 13:00

      @Boerseun - hearing voices?

      Patti Balnati - 2010-11-30 13:01

      one man is referred to - not men of africa

      Xolani - 2010-11-30 13:01

      jacowium - great response buddy !!! totally loved your work - You managed to shut Boerseun and his cheerleaders up for good ...

      Zion - 2010-11-30 18:28

      We knew about the crazy old men a long time ago and that was no leak.

  • Kendall James - 2010-11-29 20:36

    What we are in danger of is reading all this information out of context. The majority of people will read whatever the newspapers print and inflate that stance. That is sometimes more dangerous than the leaks themselves. We need to enjoy the freedoms we have and nurture them carefully and openly and with an open mind. If you might not like the answer then it's best not to ask the question.

      Bratt - 2010-11-30 08:31

      You are quite correct. However, I must say that if governments and politicians take an honest and open approach to their jobs, then there would be no danger of any mis-information. Change must come. We cannot keep being led blindly to our doom by people we don't even trust.

  • Maritza vd Heuvel - 2010-11-29 20:44

    There must always be a balance between privacy and openness. How many times haven't you complained in the privacy of your own house to your spouse about someone at work that you're having issues with? Because your spouse is on your side, in your team, you vent and speak openly about feelings that you wouldn't otherwise share. That's the purpose of private communication. We all need it, otherwise we would constantly be self-editing, afraid that someone is listening. This extreme openness being touted as a good thing in fact has the seeds of creating an Orwellian culture where Big Brother is always watching, and nobody ever speaks their mind anymore. Would YOU speak your mind in truth and honesty if you thought it would get out? No, you wouldn't. Anybody who thinks that this openness is likely to create more honesty and truth doesn't understand how the human animal is wired. We're all wired to only show the best in ourselves, to hide from public view the things that are not "politically correct". Human interaction at its core is based on a social contract of politeness and circuitous communication within acceptable parameters and norms. In politics, they call that protocol and diplomacy. But we all do it, every day.

      Jim - 2010-11-29 21:33

      Maritza my hero! - someone who understands the reality of that balance between private and public opinion. Sorry wikileaks, you're wrong this time.

      bucanon001 - 2010-11-29 22:35

      If I had the words, this is exactly how I would have put it. Well said.

      Mathieu - 2010-11-30 07:57

      Well said Maritza. Having recently read '1984' one gets a sense of the melancholic bleakness Orwell wrote about all those decades ago, in today's society. In a Big Brother is always watching culture; nothing is sacred. I'm all for exposing the truth through mediums such as Wikileaks, but not when that information is not in the public's interest. I suppose the question is; where does one draw the line?

      Norman - 2010-11-30 09:42

      Some one with some common sense finally, if I could put my thoughts on the matter into words that is exactly what I would have tried to say.

      Perfume - 2010-11-30 12:21

      I could hug you Maritza, not only complain to your spouse, what about a close friend as well :-)...excellent comment you made

      AjaxFiko - 2010-11-30 16:15

      Dude, you should become president! That's exactly what I was thinking. .just couldn't word it as you did, perfectly!

      Semjaja - 2010-11-30 17:14

      Maritza, you obviously haven't read 1984 recently. it is true that in 1984 Big Brother watches and Big Brother gathers but he certainly does not share openely what information he has, doing so would defeat the object, that object being that any one person would always think Big Brother had dirt on him thereby not neccesarily making people 'good' but by making them live in constant fear. I agree that we all hide what we really mean, dress them up to suit the occasion, but your Big Brother analogy is weak, in fact I'd go as far as saying that the governments of the world's secrecy is what breeds the Orwellian culture you speak of, not the opening of their pile of secrets. several people have made the point here that if you can't handle people seeing what you've done, you shouldn't have done it. Whereas this is a tad simplistic, i do in essence agree. it does amuse me how people are opposed to the Protection of Information Bill here in South Africa, but openely defend America's right to do the same (and let me tell you, they classify all kinds of seemingly innocent stuff all the time).

      Goldfish - 2010-12-01 02:06

      Maritza, a very well-expressed viewpoint. Conceptually I believe that WikiLeaks is about 80% a good thing in moving international relations forward. However my 20% reservations are summed up your comment.

      lee.larryblue - 2010-12-01 10:47

      Finally, someone with brains.......

      Zion - 2010-12-01 13:35

      Should the acts be with held from the public ear when uprighteous American soldiers shoot unarmed civilians in Iraq and Afghanistan? Who decides when to expose these atrocities. Definitely not the US forces or their government. etc,etc. The argument will never be laid to rest.

      ffaarg - 2010-12-02 12:52

      Thank you for stating my view so clearly.

  • Kelly - 2010-11-30 00:01

    not really sure what the problem is with calling Mugabe 'a crazy old man'? The truth hurts but essentially its the truth.

      jacowium - 2010-11-30 12:10

      Agree in full!

      Patti Balnati - 2010-11-30 13:02

      @Kelly. remember he once called Tutu a liitle devil of a bishop 4getting that he is worse than the devil

  • Claude - 2010-11-30 00:08

    Hey guy's, did you know that all our comments on the Net, in any place in the world, are stored somewhere by Google, and the other. Think twice about this. Best regards

      jacowium - 2010-11-30 12:16

      Like a Google-leaks ?

      Zion - 2010-12-01 13:39

      Claude, that is old hat. If I wish to see some of my own comments then I just google my name. I never use nom-de-plumes. Ok, so one of these days Big Brother will come aknocking on my door.

  • Barend - 2010-11-30 00:48

    I cannot see why your caption says: "Mandela not spared". A more appropriate one would have been "Bush not spared by Mandela". The "deeper" Mandela's opposition to the American/British adventure was the higher his esteem would be raised in my eyes. History proofed him right in this regard. It is also no secret that Mandela's views on many things was often not shared by by al the leaders in the ANC. And whoever said that Tsvangirai would become an albatross round the neck of those fighting for democracy was also clearly proven correct! My contention is thus that none of the "revelations" in this article is anything that those that concerned need to be ashamed of. It will also be true about the rest of the revelation, that those who did the right thing, even if it was not politically correct will not be hurt by these leaks. It is only those who did or said idiotic things who needs to be worried.

      Joy - 2010-11-30 12:21

      yup - I agree with you wholeheartedly

      ffaarg - 2010-12-02 12:58

      Mandela played the race card. If you look at Bush's team you will notice Condoleezza Rice and Colin Powell both black. Dr. Rice was said to the exter the most influence on Bush. So for Mandela to play the race card without good reason to believe it was the motivation shows he is not perfect. A good man, but not perfect.

  • Kevin Rack - 2010-11-30 04:24

    The Saudis (Bin Ladens) ask America to nuke Iran. The Saudis bombed in America in 911 but still have so much power they can ask their victim to bomb a fellow muslim country. Jees this is going to be awesome stuff coming out here. For all those non believers this should shock you at how the ruling elite really behave. I like the bit about Gadaffi and his big boobed nurse Haha

  • aswatas - 2010-11-30 07:25

    I wonder what will be revealed....scary to think of it actually..

  • Marler - 2010-11-30 07:58

    What is wrong with referring to Bob as a crazy old man... My mother taught me to always speak the truth...

      lee.larryblue - 2010-12-01 10:49

      Nothing wrong at all.....Robert is a silly old fart to be precise...

  • TruthSeeka - 2010-11-30 07:59

    Wiki Leaks is CIA. Dont be sheeple.

      savage182 - 2010-11-30 08:28

      i think u needta seeka da truth a bit harder.......

      Bratt - 2010-11-30 08:43

      With the technology they have, one does wonder why this site has not been downed already. Unless they want this out as a diversion of sorts. There are so many ways(DoS/DDoS attacks, defacing etc) they could put the site down if the information 'leaked' was really going to be so damaging.

      lee.larryblue - 2010-12-01 10:51

      It's easy to shut down a site like wikileaks, why is the site still running??...It does make me wonder.....

  • The Spear - 2010-11-30 08:11

    I think this is awesome. The two faced leaders are now running for the hills.

      pointblankza - 2010-11-30 08:40

      I don't know, what is a personal opinion is a personal opinion. Sitting down and negotiating with someone you don't like is a different matter because it is no longer personal. Everyone suddenly has taken the high road and are acting like they so holy.

      Bratt - 2010-11-30 08:44

      Or they are giggling in glee over some expensive whiskey and cigars at your expense...

  • Robin - 2010-11-30 09:14

    In Life there is no such thing such as black and white, good and evil. It's too simple to look at life like that. If we had to say everything that was on our minds we'd be arguing continously with everyone; we'd be at war with ourselves and others. When I talk in confidence after being the person I agreed to be when we agreed to use political, business or social protocols I expect confidentiality. I expect that the forum I'm communicating in is secure. This is a betrayal of confidence. It will slow down processes and communication. Less will get done because of the way it is said and the manner it is said. Those responsble should jailed. Those who think revealing what we already thought is fun and interesting are naive. How would you like to be in harms way because of pure judgement. You want to leak stuff. Put it in a time lock and open it when the offended have passed.

      thambomz - 2010-11-30 15:43

      That is very true, as much as people want such transparecy; they would not be prepared to absorb the shock. Also, I thing leaders reserve the right to communicate casually; away from the press (since they blow every-word out of proportion). These leaks are opening healed wounds.

  • Frank - 2010-11-30 11:18

    Ja well that is why one should not talk about other people behind their backs. It come out and OOH Trouble..... LOL Let us see where it leads.....

  • Patti Balnati - 2010-11-30 12:59

    ofcourse Bob is a crazy old demon! that should be said in public

      lee.larryblue - 2010-12-01 10:52

      Thank you well said....Bob is an @$$.....

  • Dr. Zeek - 2010-11-30 15:32

    Let this be a lesson to the ANC and its grand MAT plans. The truth shall set you free...

  • thambomz - 2010-11-30 15:40

    These wikileaks above just stand to show that all these important people are human. Everyone calls Robert Mugabe names (I'm sure even his own ministers). The curse of being in the limelight, is that you are expected to be perfect (beyond human).

      Dwain - 2010-12-01 10:04

      beyond human? yes he is beyond human, down below, deep beyond human. the curse of being in the limelight is when you choose to be worshipped in the limelight rather than humbly serving your people as a ruler in the best way possible, minimising as much suffering of your people as possible. If he was purple he would be the purple peoples greatest enemy.

  • REALIST - 2010-11-30 16:11

    Good! VIVA TRUTH!

  • chubb.blignaut - 2010-11-30 16:36

    Truth is multifaceted and a one-sided release of information contributes nothing towards improving knowledge or truth. These leaks expose only the American perspective on any given situation and then only from the perspective of the reporter. This is nothing more than sensationalism and puts Wikileaks on par with People magazine, News 24 and other sensation mongers.

  • DeonL - 2010-11-30 17:10

    Not many people will disagree that Robert Mugabe is a crazy old man unless you are Julius M and his friends.

  • Zion - 2010-11-30 18:26

    Mahatma Gandhi was a great man, Nelson Mandela is a great man while Osama bin Ladin, in the future, will be a great man. The only way to preserve the greatness of American Presidents is to carve their faces into rock and forget. The problem here is Nelson Mandela. I consider him a great man but cannot impose that emotive distinction onto anybody of another country. In SA Mandela is seen as a deity while the rest of the world see him as a great man. The wikileaks simply force us to see the rest of the world as it really is. American soldiers killing civilians and torturing Iraqi and enemy soldiers. Blair and his cronies accepting the existence of weapons of mass destruction despite huge evidence against its existence. American helicopters murdering enemy soldiers after they surrendered. What ever it may lead to can only be in the interest of mankind and what we expect of mankind. Wikileaks can be hailed the deity of truth.

      Aikatharine - 2010-12-01 19:52

      Zion are you running a fever? Surely this drivel can only come from a sick man.

  • preshengovender69 - 2010-12-01 07:56

    wikileaks say Julius passed wood work

  • MyNews24 Editor - 2010-12-01 07:57


  • preshengovender69 - 2010-12-01 08:00

    wikileaks says Winni did not kill Stomppie he accidental strangle himself while acting like Tarzan

  • Ares - 2010-12-01 08:32

    When is Mandela going to ever close his eyes for good? He'll probably live as long as the Queen Mother. God help us all. He opposes the war because he himself was a terrorist.

      lee.larryblue - 2010-12-01 10:54


      Michelle - 2010-12-01 12:55

      Your last sentence is totally contradictory - you ignoramus! Terrorists don't oppose war - it's what they do. Stupid much? If it wasn't for Nelson Mandela this coutry would not have overcome it's archaic apartheit views! Thanks to him we can build our future as one nation, together. Go back to the stone age where you belong!

      Ares - 2010-12-01 12:57

      Nee.... :-)

      Jean - 2010-12-02 13:57

      Afrikaans much? Go figure!!

      Ares - 2010-12-03 09:26

      What has mandela done Michelle? He retired and handed it over to his comrads who do squat all for their followers. You're so far up the ANC's ass a person can see you through their eyes. Jean, be a bit more grown up. You and Michelle must be VERY close "friends" ...

  • ilhaamk - 2010-12-01 08:32

    Valis where are the US slaughtering innocent civilians?

      Dwain - 2010-12-01 10:10

      It all started before the days of General Custer and hasn't really stopped since then. The list is pretty long.

      Zion - 2010-12-01 13:47

      Google any wikileak site then sort out the long lists. I did. Just search wikileak

      Afraid of Africa - 2011-03-04 20:17

      It was shown numerous times on BBC, CNN and EURONEWS. If you go not have the channels, just google the relevant terms.

  • egmaarman - 2010-12-01 09:56

    This is so entertaining! LOL!

  • lee.larryblue - 2010-12-01 10:43

    This will have a massive backlash.......and some innocent bystanders will get hurt.....

  • Gary - 2010-12-01 14:42

    I cannot believe how many people oppose the release of this information claiming that it is somehow Orwellian. For goodness sake, government action without transparency and accountability leads to tyranny. If you cannot understand that then this world is in trouble. Wake up!

      Michelle - 2010-12-01 16:03

      Hallelujah and Amen Gary! What completely freaks me out is that these people are comparing Government cover-ups and secrets to being able to bitch to your spouse about someone at work! UH HELLO!! Your being able to whine in private has absolutely no effect on a country or it's people, whereas what a Goverment says or does directly affects everyone and our way of life!

  • Ares - 2010-12-01 14:44

    You mean to tell me that Sponge Bob is actually a cheese grater and not a sponge? :'(

      mazvitasithole - 2010-12-01 23:51

      Are you Ares or Ass? Sure this is no spelling mistake? Lil

      Curtis - 2010-12-02 18:37

      Ares you obviously a fugitive from Aristol days,so keep running your thoughts and make a Asshole of yourself, go break some plates or something and stop picking on patriarch South Africans like mazvitasithole and Michelle, your comments are not light but cynical, you obviously have your PHD (Permanent Head Damage)in people Psychobiology.

  • Curtis - 2010-12-02 18:15

    Somebody get up an smell the coffee, this is the real world of between the sheet GOSSIP, whether we like it or not after the Smiles and Handshakes comes out the real person that takes their thoughts of what they concluded into a Private conversation, that do not become so private anymore because somebody that heard it now uses it as a trump card to climb the Ladder of SUCCESS, to me watch your association. So you either want to stay out of reality or keep in touch, if somebody likes smoking do not do it in my face because i do not have sex in yours, in the same manner if you do not like the truth about what is being said turn your face and continue living in your fairytale world, people should express themselves in their privacy, but if it leaks out so what it was my thoughts

  • Phumlani - 2011-01-14 16:22

    i usa is undermining human right for reason that i can refer to as malevolent. every nation have a right to decide their own destiny and political position. usa is the founder of the un how can you undermine the it when it is led by an african.

  • CPII - 2011-01-26 18:53

    It is high time that everbody in the world know exactly where we stand....not being dictated to by half-wit politicians and half-wit voters that, supposedly, put them into place.

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