Mbeki to give evidence in arms probe

2013-07-16 10:06

Johannesburg - Former president Thabo Mbeki will testify as a witness in the first phase of the Arms Procurement Commission, it was announced.

The commission, which is probing the R70bn arms procurement deal, will hold public hearings from 5 August until 31 January, subject to President Jacob Zuma granting an extension beyond November, spokesperson William Baloyi said in a statement on Monday.

Mbeki and Minister in the Presidency Trevor Manuel were set to testify in the second half of January.

Baloyi said the first phase of the commission would "deal with the rationale for the Strategic Defence Procurement Package", and whether the arms and equipment acquired were under-utilised or not utilised at all.

Other witnesses

The first witnesses would be navy and air force officials. Armscor witnesses would be named later.

Former Intelligence Minister Ronnie Kasrils and Congress of the People president Mosiuoa Lekota would be called as witnesses between 30 September and 4 October, followed by department of trade and industry officials until 11 November.

Former Public Enterprises Minister Alec Erwin was expected to testify for three days in November, followed by National Treasury officials until the end of that month.

"It is also important to note that the programme is not cast in stone and circumstances prevailing at the hearings may require that it be adapted or altered, and this may also effect the sequence of witnesses," Baloyi said.

"Some of the witnesses may be recalled at a later stage, when the commission deals with the terms of reference relating to allegations of impropriety, fraud and corruption in the acquisition process, a phase in which the 'whistleblowers' and those who are implicated will feature."


The commission would be held in the council chambers of the Sammy Marks Conference Centre in Pretoria.

The deal, which was initially estimated to cost R43m, has dogged South Africa's politics since it was signed in 1999, after then Pan Africanist Congress MP Patricia de Lille raised allegations of corruption in Parliament.

Zuma himself was once charged with corruption after his financial adviser Schabir Shaik, who had a tender to supply part of the requirements, was found to have facilitated a bribe for him from a French arms company.

The charges against Zuma were later dropped.

  • Twopac Amaru Shakur - 2013-07-16 10:12

    Goodman.Now it's time to take Zuma down plus you have nothing to lose.

      Thabang Bonang - 2013-07-16 10:25

      The terms of reference for the arms deal were determined by Jeff Radebe who is a close ally of our president. Noting also that He(Jeff Radebe) stopped some senior prosecutors from going to Switzerland in an effort to investigate the arms deal further. So, I doubt there will be fair justice in this regard.

      Twopac Amaru Shakur - 2013-07-16 10:29

      I just hope the outcome of this case won't be classified as top secret so everyone is so afraid JZ.Maybe the Abathembu King should be the preciding judge in this case because he's not scared of Zuma.

      Ian Flack - 2013-07-16 10:48

      In retrospect... the arms deal was good value for money compared to Nkandla

      Scouter Four-One - 2013-07-16 10:52

      I wouldn't get my hopes up everyone - once the Enquiry has been concluded its findings will be classified 'Top Secret' and not available for public scrutiny because of its 'sensitive nature' - you can put money on that one......

      Godfrey Welman - 2013-07-16 10:58

      And now the end is near....sung by blue eyes

      Twopac Amaru Shakur - 2013-07-16 11:34

      @Godfrey,you are right.Like my favourite rapper 2pac Shakur says"we can't escape fate,the end is getting nearer".

      Themba Mqoqi - 2013-07-16 11:44

      Mr thabo its u tym nw bra to bring him down

      Eterni80 - 2013-07-16 12:09

      like most 'probes' this will result in absolutely nothing happening/changing. a document will be prepared for the royal showerhead to read, he will sit on until he departs, the incoming ANC flunky will pardon him and so it will continue and until we vote these creatures out.

      Linds Ron-House - 2013-07-16 12:43

      A lot of people forget that Zuma only got involved in the arms deal at the tail end of the whole process. When the arms deal started, Zuma was Eceonomic Development MEC in KZN and he was not involved at all. He only got involved at Head of Government Business in 1999 by virtue of him being Deputy President. We know that Mbeki wrote letters related to the deal and unstructured Zuma to sign. People with all the details about the arms deal are Mbeki, Trevor Manuel, the late minister of Defense (Modise). My view is that Tony Yengeni and Jacob Zuma became sacrificial lambs. People who really benefitted from the deal have not been exposed.

      Godfrey Welman - 2013-07-16 12:47 view is that is when the corruption and bribes entered the deal.

      Thabang Bonang - 2013-07-16 13:03

      @Linds Ron-House - simple question. Why was Shabir Shaik arrested over the arms deal corruption? Let me answer you, because of His corrupt dealings with Jacob Zuma on the arms deal. That said I wouldn't conclude that our president is clean as you suggest. BTW why is Shabir Shaik and Chippy Shaik not called to testify in this 1st group since they were very key in the arms deal?

      Derek John Main - 2013-07-16 14:16

      WHITEWASH!!!! Phansi cANCer, phansi!!!

      Linds Ron-House - 2013-07-16 14:31

      @Thabang, I have not suggested that Zuma is clean. My point is very clear - there was selective prosecution. They targeted Shaik in order to get to Zuma indirectly. We're talking R79 billion here. You can't tell me that the only corrupt people were Shaik and Yengeni ( Zuma has not been found guilty). We know that Modise got at least R12 million. Monies pad to Zuma by Shaik are so negligible. There are people who are rich today because of the arms deal and they have not been prosecuted. We also know that Zuma was in financial ruin until he became president, so he didn't really get anything from the arms deal.

      Godfrey Welman - 2013-07-16 15:13

      I nominate Linds Ron-House to testify as a witness, as he has lots of useful information for the Commission.

  • Mzoxolo Ngcobelo Mxo - 2013-07-16 10:12

    mr thabo mbeki is correct to testify we need to know the truth about the armdeal

      Michael Wilson - 2013-07-16 10:51

      But if he were to openly and honestly reveal the truth, would he not then implicate himself too? I expect a true politicians testimony will be forthcoming...

      West Rob - 2013-07-16 10:53

      I doubt Mbeki will give fair testimony. He won`t want to incriminate himself.

  • Glenda Gert - 2013-07-16 10:19

    Nothing will come out of this

      Titus Madiba - 2013-07-16 10:47

      All the ANC top brass were involved in this arms deal Mbeki and Lekota included. I agree nothing will come out of this unless someone is willing to take everyone down with them, and that will never happen.

      Faniswa Pala Mrwetyana - 2013-07-16 10:57

      sobe kuvele nyani 'amakhathakhata' amadoda aqhelu lale mpandeni azokwenza njalo nangalomzuzu

  • Nokwanda Mfundisi Skwash - 2013-07-16 10:20

    the only thing we want is truth for arms deal

  • Elliot Mbiko - 2013-07-16 10:28

    We lool forward to thay

  • Elliot Mbiko - 2013-07-16 10:29

  • Elliot Mbiko - 2013-07-16 10:30

    Some hv resigned at dti, I woonder hw they wl summon they coz they mite nt be in d country

  • Paul Kershaw - 2013-07-16 10:31

    Thabo Mbeki was instrumental in going to Germany at the beginning of this arms 'deal'. It is suggested that he was the one who originally signed it up.

  • Banele Jay Jay - 2013-07-16 10:33

    Can my president @Thabo_M_Mbeki & Terror please rescue the country by burrying Zuma, even if it takes dishonesty. I'm begging you in the name of the citizens you cursed in 2009 by bringing 'em a nightmare president to mislead 'em everyday. You're both ANC members and deployees when Zuma emerged in 2007, you're also states employees at the most high level of government. Cde Mbeki had all the neccessary support from MP's to remain president of the Republic until 2009 & you could've utilised that period together with the MP's to draft or set policies (since you have that capacity) that could've hindered the incoming president from ridiculing the state like he now does everyday of his office. Those 783 counts of fraud could have not been dropped, they could've flushed him away. I now ask you to rescue the country please! I know I might be pursued for this comment since the "freedom of Speech" regulation is no longer applicable in this country. the ANC (Jackson & Gwede) threatens everyone who shares his views about the president.

  • Tshepo Molefe - 2013-07-16 10:33

    In the interest of fairness if it prevail , the truth will be told and Zuma as always will come up with a plan or an act to prevent the truth to be published. The commision will be a pawn on zuma ' s ploy to destord the truth. I will say the is going to be waste of tax money. Altimately the zuma corruption will be covered up. By his friends in parliament. By simply voting on the his selfish corrupt laws. What happened to nkandla probe ? Nobody knows , only the socalled friends of zuma knows.

  • Nditsheni Sydney Ramanyimi - 2013-07-16 10:35


  • Henk Venter - 2013-07-16 10:35

    So, Mbeki vs Zuma! what does zuma have up his sleave? Polokwane????

      Muzi Mbele - 2013-07-16 10:51

      He is in trouble big time zuma.mbeki and lekota vs zuma intresting one

      Twopac Amaru Shakur - 2013-07-16 11:30

      No Henk.Mbeki is an educated man & I'm sure he'll do what's right for us and for justice.

  • Byron Jay - 2013-07-16 10:38

    And the pending state secrecy bill...Oh, is PENDING maaaan...

  • Jt Goba - 2013-07-16 10:48

    lol as always Watch Zuma wil go to iNkandla soon and when he returns haha!!. Hamb uyodla impande Msholozi

      Armstrong Dreadnaught - 2013-07-16 16:48

      Ha! Ha! His Msholozi will back-fire!

  • Dejavu Dlamini - 2013-07-16 10:48

    Folks let the justice takes it's course and what Lekota has to say don't forget the he was a minister of defense....

  • Obakeng Obakeng - 2013-07-16 10:56

    Mr Zuma lets bygones be bygones because u know well what transpired

  • Jacqui Daane Van Rensburg - 2013-07-16 10:57

    I wonder how much he has 'forgotten'.

      Tersia Louw - 2013-07-16 11:07

      I bet he hasn't forgotten Polokwane; that should help keep his memory on song!

  • Anwar Khan - 2013-07-16 10:58

    waste of tax payers money....nothing will come of it..slap on the wrist, and back to corruption business again,if not already..

  • Thapza Jubsta - 2013-07-16 10:59

    I fear something.......Zupta is going down.....

      Armstrong Dreadnaught - 2013-07-16 16:51

      It will be a dangerous time for South Africa, but we must hang in there and we will win! Boycott the anc!

  • Al Loots - 2013-07-16 11:06

    Ironic that the whistle blowers will only be testifying towards the third quarter of 2014. Thus cANCer will be shielded from accusations of their corrupt activities before elections. Clever, corrupt thieves.

  • Azania Khathutshelo Smody - 2013-07-16 11:12

    how the outcome will be,depends huz on dat commision and hu apointed them.

  • Dave Farrington - 2013-07-16 11:24

    The truth is finding the light of day in Europe with many senior SA politicians implicated in corruption. The SA investigation will be a whitewash again as local political figures cannot and will not differentiate between truth and blatant lies. There is no hope for SA whilst the current corrupt bunch run our country!

      Armstrong Dreadnaught - 2013-07-16 16:52

      Get rid of the the democratic way! The BOOT!

  • Alan Stewart - 2013-07-16 11:26

    The defence force is a disgrace at the air force base in Durban someone walked right into the secure area and up to the Helipad, no one was on duty to challenge him, the grass was waist high around the helicopters, The SOB's are selling guns and amo to private companies.

  • Tibotouch Badnews Mgijima - 2013-07-16 11:29

    Another waste of time and money, nothing will come up as we all know.

  • Bolawana Carol Masao - 2013-07-16 11:31

    nothing is going to come out of this, everyone who is going to be testifying is going to try not to implecate themselves from Thabo Mbeki to Lekota etc.

  • Chreamz George - 2013-07-16 11:35

    The Best Honourable President we ever had in South Africa.

  • Dave Farrington - 2013-07-16 11:43

    Most of the information has seen daylight in the European investigations which implicate a number of senior ANC politicians. The local investigation is academic and will be a whitewash as local politicians see no difference between the truth and a blantant lie,the track record is there. Unless this bunch are removed from running (read pillaging) South Africa,financially we are all sunk!

  • Neo Philip Moepi - 2013-07-16 11:43

    As for me, if these enquiries and commissions were not taking our tax like all others, I was going to have my hopes, but believe you me, we need an independent commissioner and it was going to serve us right if no Minister or ANC leader was involved in all these investigations. It's time the President clears his name and that of the Presidency in general. Lets have a signed avidavit stating that no part of the report will be altered or kept secret nor matter what the outcome might be. Some of us are tired of all these political games and blaming. It's time we respect our country and its leaders.

  • Maphosa Glorothilda - 2013-07-16 11:44

    Mr.Mbeki''my President'', son of the soil.

  • Buntu Ngoma - 2013-07-16 11:48

    I smell a rat that something is coming and i can't wait for this

      Armstrong Dreadnaught - 2013-07-16 16:57

      Elections are coming! Boycott the anc! The rat that you smell is coming behind the elections.

      Buntu Ngoma - 2013-07-16 17:58

      lol ok i will

  • Marv Dee - 2013-07-16 12:11

    Hw wil this case differ to ani other case thy had against the president??ani dodgy business relating to the president wil b declared s classified case therefore dropped.justice only works on the poor the richer r above the law

  • Richard - 2013-07-16 12:12

    I have no faith. This is just blowing smoke up our Ar.... to keep mouths shut as in so many years nothing has ever been done.

      Armstrong Dreadnaught - 2013-07-16 16:58


  • Mafa Smith - 2013-07-16 12:17

    stupid...stupid probe only to fool those who still think there is a chance that some light will be shone on evil activities of these traiters..its clear that perpetrators will be pulling strings and no truth will ever see the light of the day.the death of our soldiers in CAR is proof that the whole expenditure was fruitless

  • Fritz Louw - 2013-07-16 12:21

    Don’t forget that Armscor and African Defence Systems (ADS) are also guilty of other fraud and theft of taxpayer’s money in addition to their abhorrent roles they played in the corrupt arms deal. The disgraceful and fundamentally corrupt organisations are both a shame for South Africa – in the past, now and it looks like in the foreseeable future as well.

  • Payricia Bull - 2013-07-16 12:33

    ANC PROBES - WASTE OF TIME AND MONEY ! .......... (Want justice ? .. VOTE)

  • John Sekgobela Stalwart - 2013-07-16 13:13

    Unless it is compulsory to testify then I bet Thabo Mbeki has what to topple Zuma with,he's not stupid to can testify against himself,whoever the judge is and however modified the documents someone must fall hard and my forecasting tells me that Jacob Ge-a-bolaya-wa-sega Zuma wil be begging for mercy,help me pitty him,'we have ran out of mercy',just go Zulu boy.

  • David Madisha - 2013-07-16 13:15

    R43million on top of R70billion,why can't they give it to people who are living with HIV?

  • Samuel Buntu Billie - 2013-07-16 13:23

    should we loose hope from our leaders especially anc becouse there`s a lot that has happened in the last five years

  • jerhone - 2013-07-16 14:47

    more election hot air, nothing will come of this, just more waste of taxpayers money

  • Hilton Tobias - 2013-07-16 15:01

    The nail in the coffin..el president JuJu?

  • Nelson Dabeat - 2013-07-16 15:06

    Why do south african goverment, act like if they walking through a crowd of strangers whom they mix with, rub shoulders with and see every now and again, but since these strangers don't interest you anymore in the least, as soon as you crossed them in the stree they disappear completely from your life. By acting this way about this arm deal' let me tell you dear friend" those useless and time-consuming and south african tax money wasting, thoughts which cross your mind you will be pleasantly suprised to observe that your mind becomes freer and clearer. In the book of saint Luke it is said that when a kingdom became divided it will turn upon itself and all its homes will be destroyed.

  • Sonnyboy Mathebula - 2013-07-16 15:48

    "what goes around cames around'Mbeki we put our trust on u, ZUMA must go to jeil

  • Herman Mosima - 2013-07-16 16:42

    My president, my president.

  • Ryan Styles - 2013-07-16 17:24

    Nothing to get too excited about. The commission has no teeth. They have no jurisdiction and their request to give evidence can be ignored. They can not pass sentence and their findings are nothing more than recommendations

  • Miguel Capelo - 2013-07-16 20:23

    Hope the proceedings go like those Congressional Inquiries that the United States has every so often... Hope the PIGGIES sweat!

  • pages:
  • 1