News24

Meshoe slams Tutu over 'homophobic God'

2013-07-31 08:41

Cape Town - ACDP leader Rev Kenneth Meshoe has slammed Archbishop Emeritus Desmond Tutu for his "homophobic God" statement, The Cape Times reported on Wednesday.

"Archbishop Desmond Tutu is out of order when he alleged that God is a homophobic God, and that he finds fault with scriptures that teach that homosexual life style is a sin before God," the African Christian Democratic Party leader was quoted as saying.

"We ask Archbishop Tutu not to confuse people who respect the scriptures, and advised him to keep his unbelief to himself if he does not believe in the teaching of the Holy Bible."

He was reacting to Tutu's comments on Friday, at the launch of a United Nations campaign to promote the fair treatment of lesbians and gays.

Tutu said he did not support a homophobic God.

"I would refuse to go to a homophobic heaven. No, I'd say sorry. I mean, I'd much rather go to that other place," he told reporters in Cape Town.

Comments
  • Mthokozisi Ndokweni - 2013-07-31 08:46

    Lol i wonder

      Stof Bra - 2013-07-31 09:11

      As usual, this article bends the truth. Tutu is trying to convey that God loves us all regardless of our actions. The adulterer, the thief, the murderer and all are loved and we are commanded to love all as well. None of us are free to cast the stone.

      Ari Potah - 2013-07-31 09:32

      @ Jack Tick - STOP SHOUTING! Or are you a serious case of protesting too much? I wonder why??

      Chris Jansen van Vuuren - 2013-07-31 09:38

      Jack - Go sell crazy some place else.

      Eddie Simes - 2013-07-31 09:38

      Hello Jack, seek I.T. assistance. Your caps lock seems to be broken, along with your mind. I don't see mass protests for people eating shellfish and premarital sex, so why attack the gays? It just points to people being bigots. Enjoy your sad, delusional life.

      Derek Penny - 2013-07-31 09:55

      Jack Tig, the way you are shouting leads me to believe that you are probably gay, but are trying to hide it. Come out of the cupboard man, it is crowded in there.

      GayAtheistEffUN24 - 2013-07-31 10:32

      Lekker, if hell exists, i will rather burn that spend eternity with your hateful, evil god.

      Alistair Fiddleton - 2013-07-31 10:38

      @Jack Tig - Everyone is right in their own mind but, their is only one truth and that is the truth of God - 1 God only. Our problem Mr. Tig is that we are so fast to judge what is wrong, leave that to God. Homosexuality is a sin according to God so leave it for God to judge. Everyone big and small will stand before Him and face judgement whether they believe it or not. The end will come. Judgement will come. nothing we can do about it, its the way it is.

      Atholl Hay - 2013-07-31 10:41

      Taken literally, the Bible says the earth is flat and is sitting on pillars and cannot move (Ps 93:1, Ps 96:10, 1 Sam 2:8, Job 9:6). It says that great sea monsters are set to guard the edge of the sea (Job 41, Ps 104:26) This gives a fairly good indication of the superstitious mentality and ignorance of the Bible's authors, which is hardly surprising given the time and place in which they were writing. A metaphorical/allegorical interpretation of the Bible is now required in our more enlightened times. This does however require more intelligence and maturity of thought. Archbishop Tutu is wise and compassionate enough to understand this. Sadly many religious and political leaders, as well as religious fundamentalists, have not yet grasped this concept.

      Jack Tig - 2013-07-31 10:42

      THE LORD DOES NOT HATE ANY PERSON, HE ONLY HATES THE SIN, THATS WHY HE WANTS TO SEPARATE YOU FROM THE SIN SO THAT YOU ARE NOT DESTROYED WITH IT.

      Keiran Bramley - 2013-07-31 11:01

      The bible state a lot of things 99% of the readers choose to ignore. No mixed fabric clothing, No shell fish, Not to be close to any woman on her menstrual period!!! i don't see any of you jumping on this, Why is that? yet lets burn the gay's. BURN THEM I TELL YOU!!! This is what's wrong with religion in full! pick and choose as you wish then burn the one that does not comply with your interpretation of it, because they don't believe the same as you. I am sure it said something about not judging “Judge not, and you will not be judged; condemn not, and you will not be condemned; forgive, and you will be forgiven;

      Mlungisi Botha - 2013-07-31 12:11

      Of all the things Tutu said at that conference and of all the issues the campaiogn was about - hatred and murder of people because they are gay - the one thing that this pastor in politician's gard decides to comment on is the one about a homophobic god? He's silent on the other issues in a way Jesus never was and...he does not understand what Tutu was on about too. Tutu was effectively trying to say that people have recreated God and heaven and that he refuses to believe in the god they've created or go to the heaven they have built on their homophobia.

      Mlungisi Botha - 2013-07-31 12:14

      Is floor crossing still allowed? And I thought of leaving the ****** in 2014 and going to the ACDP. Now I don't know any more! Maybe I should stay where I am in the ******!

      jerhone - 2013-07-31 12:25

      it's amazing that these clerics especially bishop Eeh Eeh Eeh don't read the bible correctly, it does not state that GOD hates sinners but what he does hate is the SIN that they commit, and the definition of sin is THE TRANSGRESSION OF GOD'S LAWS

      Thabang Bonang - 2013-07-31 12:26

      As a Christian I agree with Mr Kenneth Meshoe. The BIBLE considers homosexuality as a sin Romans 1. The downfall of Sodom and Gomora was mainly as a result of homosexuality. Read the BIBLE.

      Atholl Hay - 2013-07-31 13:07

      Thabang - Here is a summary of the STORY of Sodom & Gomorrah. Do you really expect any rational person to believe this!? "Two angels arrived in Sodom, at eventide, and were invited to spend the night at Lot's home. Lot's visiting angels urged him to get his family and flee, so as to avoid being caught in the impending disaster for the iniquity of the city. Lot delayed, so the angels took hold of his hand, his wife's hand and his daughters and brought them out of the city. Traveling behind her husband, Lot's wife looked back, and turned into a pillar of salt." (I can just imagine Lot's wife acting as a cattle lick for all eternity! ha ha)

      GayAtheistEffUN24 - 2013-07-31 15:04

      The bible and your god also advocate slavery. Yet you want to cry foul that whites and imperialists started slavery and apartheid etc... i am not saying it is ok, but what is the difference between god advocating racial hatred through slavery, and advocating homophobia? Hypocrites

  • Neil Ross - 2013-07-31 08:49

    Who to believe? Tutu, Nobel Prize winner and one of the most righteous men in the world as well as the Pope who both say homosexuality is NOT a sin, or Keneth... a funny little politician?

      StormyWeather - 2013-07-31 09:00

      Got to love the new Pope! Every word that comes out of his mouth takes the Catholic Church (about bloody time) into the 21st Century. Watch how the following increases over the next two years - he is a very very smart man. And whilst I left the church a VERY long time ago, I have total respect for this new chap :)

      Marnus Van Der Merwe - 2013-07-31 09:12

      @Niel, read the news: the Pope actually reaches out to homosexuals but stated that homosexuality activity is an act of sin which can be forgiven.

      Joshua Nkambule - 2013-07-31 09:38

      I believe the scriptures, they testify of Jesus, not so called "holy men"

  • David Campbell - 2013-07-31 08:50

    He is de devils angel! Yes,let him go to hell

  • Madumetja April - 2013-07-31 08:50

    tutu must stop taking nonsense in the media.

  • Chrono Man - 2013-07-31 09:00

    Meshoe clearly attaches a different meaning to Tutu's words than Tutu intended. Tutu and all serious christians are faced with a paradox: the loving God, the existence of gay people who seem to have been born gay and scripture that suggests that gays are condemned.

  • Teboho Bruno Chiefconerstone Macheli - 2013-07-31 09:01

    lol...the archbishop has gone insane...WTF!!!

  • Fritz Eloff - 2013-07-31 09:07

    Funny news heading. Anyone here really want to see Meshoe slam Tutu? It would be so Russian: http://www.rferl.org/content/russia-gay-rights-protest/24880571.html

  • PeterJohn - 2013-07-31 09:10

    My God, I think I now see the problem with Christians laid bare - there is not a decent bone between the lot of you! A person is entitled to interpret scripture and form opinion as he wishes - it is after all, what all of you have been doing for thousands of years. Alas, there is no definitive dogma on thought.....well, not yet anyway but I expect you lot will figure out a way to do that sometime soon as well. GOD IS LOVE PEOPLE, GOD IS LOVE.....think about that.

      Thulani Mdletshe - 2013-07-31 09:16

      We love homosexuals, we understand that God is Love but it does not change is word though.

      Sean Potgieter - 2013-07-31 09:31

      God is RIGHTEOUS too. The people of this world have a very very twisted idea of righteousness: Good is bad, right is wrong and light is shadow. Think about that. Just because the pressure from the far left and P.C crowds is getting stronger, does not mean that believers must compromise on sound Biblical principles. Yes, God is love, but that doesn't mean that sin is given the green-light.

      GayAtheistEffUN24 - 2013-07-31 11:08

      Really, why then does he hate women and gays so much. And shellfish (his own creation). Why did he tell so many people to murder and destroy other tribes? Please man, god is no more loving than Hitler

      Fritz Eloff - 2013-07-31 11:37

      It is only a matter of time before the Bible becomes a banned book, for it is incompatible with how Christians like to see God. Malachi 1:2 I have loved you, saith the LORD. Yet ye say, Wherein hast thou loved us? Was not Esau Jacob's brother? saith the LORD: yet I loved Jacob. And I hated Esau, and laid his mountains and his heritage waste for the dragons of the wilderness. Psalms 139:21 Do not I hate them, O LORD, that hate thee? And am not I grieved with those that rise up against thee? I hate them with perfect hatred: I count them mine enemies.

  • Kenneth Mkhari - 2013-07-31 09:16

    Fact: Desmond Tutu is part of the illuminati and is only doing what he has signed up to do, the other place he's reffering to is the only place he knows he's going to. Believe what you like but Heaven is real and so is hell... May God deliver you poor old Desmond, Arch Bishop of the devil

      KReddy - 2013-07-31 09:24

      Do you even know what the Illuminati was?

      Abdul-Ba'ith Sayegh - 2013-07-31 09:34

      And you are calling the utterly nonsense that you wrote a fact? LOL I guess your believe of Heaven and Hell being real are actual factually right? You an idiot.

      Phae Rayden - 2013-07-31 09:37

      LOL Do you think accusing Tutu of belonging to the illuminati makes your comment more intelligent and foreboding?

      ARTFUL DODGER. - 2013-07-31 10:37

      I'm totally AMAZED, that most unfounded, and ignorant comments made about Arch Bishop Desmond TUTU are from BLACK delusional trolls...." THE WHITE MIND BOGGLES!!!"

      GayAtheistEffUN24 - 2013-07-31 10:47

      They don't use facts, they go on blind faith.

      Jaco Wium - 2013-07-31 15:00

      Since you know it all, Kenneth, who else is in this "Illuminati", when and where do they congregate, and what exactly are their plans for world domination (which I'm told is "busy happening"...ever since I was a toddler over 40 years ago). Thank you for your time in sharing details of the world's most, ahem, secretive society with us.

  • Thoko Khanya - 2013-07-31 09:19

    The archbishop does not want to judge. Let them deal with their God.

  • Wilson Chidozie Uzuegbuna - 2013-07-31 09:22

    he should watch emmanuel TV. and be diliver,

  • Wilson Chidozie Uzuegbuna - 2013-07-31 09:23

    he should watch Emmanuel TV and be diliver.

  • Lindela Mfazi - 2013-07-31 09:23

    Tutu you are old, stop being controversial and confusing yo desire to be an icon with Christian values. If you are not Christian, continue to wear the clothe but for Heaven sake stop being a sinner in the house of God or in God's'name

      KReddy - 2013-07-31 09:27

      And you have spoken to God and God told you to cast stones and judge another? Only God judges, not anyone of us here so if Peter decides to Marry Petros and hold hands in the street, leave them be.

  • psbuthelezi - 2013-07-31 09:34

    You mean the same bible that was used to justify Apartheid, Slavery. Any black person that follow a white man's bible is damned. Its like stabbing yourself in the heart in the name of love. This Christian God also allowed the white men to institute pain on black people. Wow that Amazing God, that now people are killed in jis name just because the either are muslin or have different beliefs in Africa and Middle east. I just hate Black Religious leaders that follow a hateful religion that doesn't even respect them too... WOW.

      Mpho Mafetu - 2013-07-31 09:55

      @psbuthelezi, the use of the bible by apartheid agents doesn't mean God never existed. And neither does it mean God favoured the whites. They used it to their advantage and to the disadvantage of black people.

      Susan Economakis - 2013-07-31 10:14

      @ Fanus - What utter nonsense. The mother of God was a woman (Mary)??? lower than an animal? I think not.

      GayAtheistEffUN24 - 2013-07-31 10:53

      You are so right psbuthelezi The bible clearly states what god thinks about some of this "children." But it was the xtian god that allowed it, that would imply he exists, which there is no evidence of. Skin colour has nothing to do with it. RELIGIOUS people use their faith to institute their own f**ked-up beliefs.

      Senzosenkosi Mahaye - 2013-07-31 14:57

      As a God fearing Christian man I don't think God aproved slavery nor Apartheid which is why He sent Moses and even Mandela. To me this is like believers at the Shembe church where preachers quote scriptures out of context to minipulate God's words to fit with their own selfish/cultural beliefs. I believe that the way the bible was used(blesphemy) to opress people is wrong and God will punish the wrongdoers His time not our time. We also can't turn a blind eye to all that religion brings which is peace, freedom, unity, joy, etc and focus on a few that are guided by unheavinly powers, they will take you to 'that place' with them

      GayAtheistEffUN24 - 2013-07-31 15:10

      Slaves, obey your earthly masters with deep respect and fear. Serve them sincerely as you would serve Christ. (Ephesians 6:5 NLT) Christians who are slaves should give their masters full respect so that the name of God and his teaching will not be shamed. If your master is a Christian, that is no excuse for being disrespectful. You should work all the harder because you are helping another believer by your efforts. Teach these truths, Timothy, and encourage everyone to obey them. (1 Timothy 6:1-2 NLT)

  • Muke Matshaba - 2013-07-31 09:36

    Who are we to judge.

      Abdul-Ba'ith Sayegh - 2013-07-31 09:45

      Good question, however so many on this platform has never sinned and are pure and holy. Therefore they can cast stones on homosexuals and the righteous archbishop Tutu.

      Daniel Roach - 2013-07-31 10:51

      "Why do you look at the speck of sawdust in your brother’s eye and pay no attention to the plank in your own eye?" -- Jesus Christ, Matthew 7:3-5

  • Moses Tembe - 2013-07-31 09:40

    forwarded to ROBERT MUGABE waiting for his comment.

  • Phoenixx - 2013-07-31 09:41

    Wow the vitriol against Tutu is astounding! This is a man who has done more for his fellow many than most other people on earth - and definitely anyone commenting on this forum.

      Sean Potgieter - 2013-07-31 10:18

      A man's past does not vindicate his future. As much as the good deeds of Tutu are appreciated; those same deeds cannot justify his future deeds whether good or bad. In my mind 2 recent bad things Tutu has done are calling for a discriminatory white tax and branding the One he claims to serve as homophobic.

      Phoenixx - 2013-07-31 10:20

      Wow Sean. An article about gay people and as per usual you are here. You are aware what your fascination/obsession with everything gay implies?

      Sean Potgieter - 2013-07-31 10:26

      "Wow Sean. An article about gay people and as per usual you are here. You are aware what your fascination/obsession with everything gay implies?"----I will admit Phoenixx, that I LOVE this line of reasoning. It's like you giving me a shotgun to blast your argument away with :) OK, let us presuppose that your line of reasoning is correct: I am supposedly a closet homosexual (though looking at my profile pic, I can assure you I REALLY am not) because I show up for every (not really) article that attacks God and promotes homosexuality. Ok, now, what does this line of reasoning say about unbelievers who show up like the sun is going to rise tomorrow for every single article that mentions the words: God, Christian, church, clergy, Jesus, religion? Closet theists???

      Atholl Hay - 2013-07-31 12:43

      Sean, I'm afraid it takes more than a profile pic to determine whether you are straight or gay. Sorry, but human sexuality is more nuanced and complex than that. Sexuality is not an either or thing. Nature rarely deals with discrete categories. The living world is a continuum in each and every one of its aspects. Sexuality is no exception and exists on such continuum, with completely heterosexual at one end (Kinsey scale 0) and completely homosexual at the other (Kinsey 6). Research demonstrates that most people fall somewhere in between, i.e. bisexual to some degree, whether we consciously admit this or not. This is our natural, biological, God-given(if you prefer)state which is at odds with biblical teachings, causing a huge amount of confusion and panic. Acceptance of this scientifically acknowledged fact has become a global trend, with gay rights issues and civil unions being acknowledged in all progressive countries.

      Robin Masters - 2013-07-31 13:31

      define "progressive" atholl. rather regressive if you ask me. progressive in achieving an agenda that is away from God and his teachings. Kinsey? Nice try, as with everything to do with science. Mans attempt to try and apply reason and logic to something that exists outside of his own paradigm. ideas always retricted by the limitations of human thought. some things are there / true whether you believe in them or not.

      Atholl Hay - 2013-07-31 13:57

      Argentina, Belgium, Brazil, Canada, Denmark, France, Iceland, the Netherlands, Norway, Portugal, Spain, South Africa, Sweden, New Zealand, Uruguay, England, Wales, United States, Mexico, Israel, Aruba, Curaçao,Sint Maarten, Mexico and the United States all recognise same-sex partnerships to some degree. Those who oppose the gay lifestyle should seriously consider emmigration to countries like Zimbabwe, Uganda and Saudi Arabia....

      Atholl Hay - 2013-07-31 14:07

      Oh, and of course Russia is another place where all you haters might feel comfortable. Have a look.... http://www.buzzfeed.com/mjs538/photos-from-russia-everyone-needs-to-see

  • Terence Miller - 2013-07-31 09:51

    Yes, God loves all people, even the murderer, but His heart is paining because of the sin(wrong actions) in peoples lives. This is why he promised He will help us in this love we all talk about, but how do you accept this help? By accepting what Christ Jesus has done on the cross and break with what ever sin bounds the poor soul.Hes life realy does set free from all sin. May you be a part taker in Hes love, to love Him back, by doing the right thingand come to Him.

      Senzosenkosi Mahaye - 2013-07-31 10:47

      Amen to that. God loves sinners and hates sin. So break away from sin for He will not take you with the sin and will only allow you into His kingdom if you leave that sin behind. So take Jesus by the hand leave behind the immoralities of the land and journey to Father.

      GayAtheistEffUN24 - 2013-07-31 10:56

      Is that why he says women are dirty when on their period? Or that disobedient children must be stoned to death? Or says its ok to own slaves? Aaah, such a loving god.

      Senzosenkosi Mahaye - 2013-07-31 14:14

      Who are we to question God, who are we to challange His words. Who are we to even think we know more than Him. Who are we to not fear Him. We are not here to question but to obey and follow His instructions.

      GayAtheistEffUN24 - 2013-07-31 15:13

      I am a human being, and so are you. There is evidence of your existence. There is no evidence for the existence of any gods. Want to have blind faith in something with no proof? Why then, don't you worship Santa Claus, or the Easter Bunny?

  • Daniel Roach - 2013-07-31 09:56

    The arrogance of religion is sickening. They claim to know what God approves and disapproves of and take offense on God's behalf. This anthropocentric crap is what causes us to stray further from God. God does not speak any human language...and doesn't write books. PEOPLE write books...and PEOPLE interpret their own visions and experiences. How can you claim that God is all loving and in the next breathe say that God hates homosexuals??...the arrogance! and idiocy!!

      Senzosenkosi Mahaye - 2013-07-31 10:14

      Interesting perspective. Only disagree with the last statement. You can make that claim. Jus like when He tells us not kill and on the same breath destroys a planet and many cities killing millions. He is loving BUT does not tolerate sin and has put masses to death for it.

  • Mwabi Jere - 2013-07-31 10:01

    Maybe am wrong but isn't Tutu trying to say that if God was homophobic he wouldn't believe in him (he would rather go to hell than go to a homophobic heaven)...sounds to me like Tutu is in fact saying the opposite of Meshoe thinks he is saying. As usual, this is being taken out of context - foot in mouth moment Meshoe!

  • Senzosenkosi Mahaye - 2013-07-31 10:04

    I stand with Arch Tutu. Father God is homophobic. And here are a few scriptures where he clearly rebukes homosexuality and punishes it. Genesis 19:1-11 Leviticus 18:22 Leviticus 20:13 Judges 19:16-24 1 Kings 14:24 1 Kings 15:12 2 Kings 23:7 Romans 1:18-32 1 Corinthians 6:9-11 1 Timothy 1:8-10 Jude 7(Sodom and Gomorrah)

      Phoenixx - 2013-07-31 10:20

      Lev 11:13 - eating shellfish is an abomination! Fortunately I am allergic.

      Senzosenkosi Mahaye - 2013-07-31 10:33

      @Phoenix difference he does not promise punishment for these. Pls read your bible its about birds of prey Lev 11:13 KJV reads ->these are they which ye shall have in abomination among the fowls; they shall not be eaten, they are an abomination: the eagle, and the ossifrage, and the ospray.

      Wako Huka - 2013-07-31 10:43

      homophobic or not. That is the only God in the bible. The other is...

      GayAtheistEffUN24 - 2013-07-31 10:59

      What about adultery and divorce? Those are also abominations... Oh wait, i forgot, xtians can choose which parts of the bible to believe in. OR just pray for forgiveness and all will be fine.

      Senzosenkosi Mahaye - 2013-07-31 11:08

      We have sins that lead to death and sin that does not lead to death. Adultry for example is a sin that leads to death and defined as such in the bible. Homosexuality is also a sin that leads to death and God has put people to death for it since the old testament.

      GayAtheistEffUN24 - 2013-07-31 11:14

      Lol um, death happens regardless of sin... Every single living thing dies, bacteria, horses, insects, birds... everything dies... so are you saying all these organisms sinned in order to die?

      GayAtheistEffUN24 - 2013-07-31 11:15

      "God has put people to death for it since the old testament" Such a loving god... ^

      Senzosenkosi Mahaye - 2013-07-31 11:39

      Yes God has punished sin with death since he created man. He does not put man to death but sin, and if you are of sin, then you parished along with your sins. He is so loving He offered us a second chance through His only beggoten son so that if you turn away from sin and believe then you will be saved. That is Love

      Senzosenkosi Mahaye - 2013-07-31 11:42

      Death doesn't necessarily refer to your flesh but also could refer to your soul. Unlike animals we possess living souls.

      Jacqui Daane Van Rensburg - 2013-07-31 12:11

      Senzosenkosi Mahaye. I don't know the bible well. But this verse tells me all: Now all glory to God, who is able through his mighty power AT WORK WITHIN US, to accomplish infinitely mote than we might ask or think. Ephesians 3.20. I knew there was a good reason why I am a Buddhist. The power that works within me is God, who is everywhere.

      Senzosenkosi Mahaye - 2013-07-31 12:17

      @Ernest its like asking God to rewrite/resay that we shouldn't steal. Our economy is based on theft so why not remove punishment for it since we all doing it. Wrong we are slowly loosing fear of God which is what's happening with homosexuality. Its happening because they are ignorant and don't see anything happen immediately thus thinking He condones it. Jesus will come again to judge and they will wish they didn't defy Him and go against what He has said over and over.

      Senzosenkosi Mahaye - 2013-07-31 12:28

      @ jacqui.daanevanrensburg "His mighty power AT WORK WITHIN US". This is the Holy Spirit which Jesus also showered us with when He departed. That it lives within us and guides us. However we have more that lives within us. If we do not CHOOSE and RESPOND to the Holy Spirit and then we are lost sheep. Some my fellow brothers and sisters that do not hear Him anymore because they are so blinded by the desires of their own flesh, and regard His silence as approval to silence their Holy Spirit.

      GayAtheistEffUN24 - 2013-07-31 15:14

      Please provide evidence for all your claims...

  • Win Winno - 2013-07-31 10:07

    You are right man of God. now I know which party to support next year. Amen..... Christian party that support biblical principles is what we need to heal our land to heal our country.

      GayAtheistEffUN24 - 2013-07-31 11:00

      Nope, sorry. Our constitution protects us from religious people forcing their beliefs onto us. ACDP will never win.

  • Phae Rayden - 2013-07-31 10:15

    Just goes to prove more and more people, even a Bishop, are finally finding it impossible to apply the hatred and bigotry of the Bible over the compassion of thinking people. Reasoning humans are far better at living with kindness and humanity than this horror of a Bible God.

      Jacqui Daane Van Rensburg - 2013-07-31 12:14

      Phae Rayden. Like the Dalai Lama Said;' It doesn't matter if you are a theist or atheist, what matters is sincerity, forgiveness and compassion'.

      Phae Rayden - 2013-07-31 12:32

      Hi Jacqui, yes indeed. If only humans connected to their humanity rather than their religious dogma we'd be in a far better world. Gotta acknowledge the DL and his compassionate reasoning, as with his good friend Tutu.

  • LP Louw - 2013-07-31 10:22

    Wow, just lost all my respect for Desmond Tutu. Well said, Rev Meshoe.

  • Omnivore - 2013-07-31 10:29

    Tutu is the man! My favourite religious guy by far.

  • Mandla Mahlangu - 2013-07-31 10:42

    Pastor Meshoe sustained,if tutu dnt agree wit da holy bible, he must not mislead adas

      Phae Rayden - 2013-07-31 12:23

      He must not lead adas? Do you possibly mean udders, or others perhaps.

      Omnivore - 2013-07-31 12:45

      adidas? adders?

  • Alta Steyn - 2013-07-31 10:43

    Thank you Rev Meshoe and Terence Miller. The truth cannot be denied. No matter how hard people try to change or manipulate it according to their own free will. May God have mercy on their souls.

  • Waydon Esterhuizen - 2013-07-31 10:48

    God loves people (even the not so perfect), but God definitely hates sin. Sin is sin, even if peoples believes are twisted by whatever means (political, false teachings, etc.). Take the bible, be still in front of the Lord, calmly read the following Scriptures related to this specific sin: - 1 Corinthians 6:9 - Leviticus 20:13 (by now your blood should be boiling, but stay humble and continue to read the Scriptures) - 1 Timothy 1:10 - Romans 1:26-28 - Leviticus 18:22 - 1 Corinthians 7:2 - Jude 1:7 - 1 Corinthians 6:9-11 The scriptures are what the are (cant change that). They were before me and you. This ancient Holy text (both old & new covenant/agreement between God & man before and after Christ) is consistently against the practice of homosexuality. Why against it: The ancient Holy text seek to promote a naturally sustainable behaviour amongst all people to encourage the existence of life. (man & man cannot make baby, its not natural in this ancient design/creation of God) According to these scriptures, Tutu is well within the framework of the ancient Holy text related to a naturally sustainable behaviour, Kenneth unfortunately is not. Now, each of you be calm & decide for yourselves what you make of this doctrine. I trust that life will be your teacher.

  • Waydon Esterhuizen - 2013-07-31 10:50

    1 Corinthians 6:9

  • Winston Jackson - 2013-07-31 10:56

    Just a reminder for toet as he has forgotten the name of "...the other place.." which is called "HELL" and as he said he would rather be. We are a product of our choices mr toet. Happy to know you wont be sharing HEAVEN with me

  • Roger Plaatjies - 2013-07-31 11:00

    Desmond Tutu wanna b God now? He wanna tell God what is right and what is wrong, Tutu u r only human and not a God, Jesus died 4 everybodies sin, will u die 4 min? No, I don't think so, God loves every 1, but hate the sin of the world. We as christians can't compromise with the world 2day, Sorry Desmond Tutu, but we lost repsect 4 u as person.

  • Roger Plaatjies - 2013-07-31 11:00

    Desmond Tutu wanna b God now? He wanna tell God what is right and what is wrong, Tutu u r only human and not a God, Jesus died 4 every bodies sin, will u die 4 min? No, I don't think so, God loves every 1, but hate the sin of the world. We as christians can't compromise with the world 2day, Sorry Desmond Tutu, but we lost respect 4 u as person.

  • Pumbaa Soyizwapi - 2013-07-31 11:09

    "if you're a Black Christian, you have a real short memory." - Chris Rock

      GayAtheistEffUN24 - 2013-07-31 11:15

      ^ lol

      Tshiamo Stevens - 2013-07-31 11:49

      That's comedy! just like that!

  • Collenz Mac Manwale - 2013-07-31 11:10

    "You shall not lie with a male as one lies with a female; it is an abomination." Lev 20:13 "If there is a man who lies with a male as those who lie with a woman, both of them have committed a detestable act; they shall surely be put to death." 1 Cor 6:9 "Or do you not know that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived; neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor homosexuals" 1 Tim 1:9-10 "realizing the fact that (civil) law is not made for a righteous man, but for those who are lawless and rebellious, for the ungodly and sinners, for the unholy and profane, for those who kill their fathers or mothers, for murderers and immoral men and homosexuals and kidnappers and liars and perjurers

  • Collenz Mac Manwale - 2013-07-31 11:10

    "You shall not lie with a male as one lies with a female; it is an abomination." Lev 20:13 "If there is a man who lies with a male as those who lie with a woman, both of them have committed a detestable act; they shall surely be put to death." 1 Cor 6:9 "Or do you not know that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived; neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor homosexuals" 1 Tim 1:9-10 "realizing the fact that (civil) law is not made for a righteous man, but for those who are lawless and rebellious, for the ungodly and sinners, for the unholy and profane, for those who kill their fathers or mothers, for murderers and immoral men and homosexuals and kidnappers and liars and perjurers

      Mkhululi Yekani - 2013-07-31 14:58

      Amen

      GayAtheistEffUN24 - 2013-07-31 15:15

      ^ *vomit*

  • Pumbaa Soyizwapi - 2013-07-31 11:11

    Every1 on the planet sins. So don't judge someone just because they sin differently than you

      GayAtheistEffUN24 - 2013-07-31 11:16

      I don't sin. What is sin? Please define it, without reference to religion? People do bad things. That is it.

      Pumbaa Soyizwapi - 2013-07-31 11:27

      sin is the act of violating the rules stated in the bible, sin is a religious term. I can't define it without making refferences to religion. Whether you believe in sin and religion or not duznt mean you don't sin. We all disobey the rules of the bible (personally I think its a rediculous book) but my point here is that no1 is perfect and apparently all sins are the same in the eyes of god, so people should stop being so judgemental.

      GayAtheistEffUN24 - 2013-07-31 13:16

      The bible is NOT the global rule book.

      Pumbaa Soyizwapi - 2013-07-31 14:55

      I never said it was the global rulebook. All I was saying is that no1 is perfect, so why judge each other... That's all I was trying to say. I thought that was a sentiment that people would agree with. But I guess I was wrong.

      GayAtheistEffUN24 - 2013-07-31 15:17

      Haha, and who says those rules are the ones to follow? You are exactly the same as the Muslims who want Sharia law. Your religion had its chance to rule the world you know, it's called the DARK AGES (for a reason)

      GayAtheistEffUN24 - 2013-07-31 15:20

      Humans judge each other. That is part of the human condition. How else do you know whether or not to trust someone, or like someone, or love someone, if you do not judge them? Why is judging people so wrong? Judging based on discrimination and bigotry is wrong, but judging when you know the person, or busy getting to know the person, is perfectly okay. If we didn't constantly judge others, then we would all be complete strangers.

  • Waydon Esterhuizen - 2013-07-31 11:16

    God loves all people, but God hates all sins. Do calmly take your Bible (I trust you have invested in this Great Book),and read the following Scriptures yourselves relating to this specific sin. - 1 Corinthians 6:9 - Leviticus 20:13 - 1 Timothy 1:10 (by now your blood should be boiling, but humbly continue to read them anyway) - Romans 1:26-28 - Leviticus 18:22 - 1 Corinthians 7:2 - Romans 1:32 - Jude 1:7 - Mark 10:6-9 - 1 Corinthians 6:9-11 Do note in this ancient Holy text that both old & new covenant (agreement between God & man both before & after Christ), that the Text is consistently against the sin of homosexuality (no but's). Why is Holy text against this sin: The ancient Holy text seeks to promote a Naturally Sustainable behaviour amongst all people. It takes into consideration the ancient design of God....man and man cannot naturally procreate, but man and woman generally can. Do read these scriptures again at least 5 times now that you are somewhat upset with this doctrine, then calmly decide for yourselves without political or worldly influence which way forward is the correct way in the eyes of God. I trust that God will guide you to plainly read His text for what It is, and not allow anyone to add or subtract meaning of It. Keep well, and God bless.

      Omnivore - 2013-07-31 13:14

      Don't you mean no butts?

  • Jacqui Daane Van Rensburg - 2013-07-31 11:44

    Tutu talked about a homophobic heaven. Some people don't even understand what they preach, dear rev. Meshoe.

      Senzosenkosi Mahaye - 2013-07-31 12:40

      That if heaven is homophobic then he'd rather go to the 'other' place. Perfectly put he wants to go to a heaven free judgement of any type. If there was it wudnt be heaven that he'll be in.

  • Tshiamo Stevens - 2013-07-31 11:44

    I won't comment anything on homosexuals because my comments will be removed by the PC moderator. So I keep quiet!

  • Jaimie Ola-Jamos Corker - 2013-07-31 12:02

    These 'Christians' they do not believe in something and they are the first to throw the book at you and the first to judge. That is exactly what God wanted you to do, hey?

  • Phathisizwe Gubevu - 2013-07-31 12:15

    He is coming out of the closet! into hell! Good luck for him!

  • Solomon Matli - 2013-07-31 13:23

    Everyone is entitled to their opininion just like u. Leave Tutu alone please Rev!

  • Malcolm Turner - 2013-07-31 13:25

    Swannie, what an ignorant and arrogant man you are. It is evolution that is a fable and you are blinded by believing this delusion. By the way show me in the Bible that makes the statement that creation is 6,000 years old? God's word says that in the beginning God created the heaven and the earth.We are not told when or how He did it just that He did. I believe that and leave the speculation to those with no faith to accept the truth.

  • Chreamz George - 2013-07-31 13:53

    ".....he told reporters in Cape Town". Business man/woman in Cape Town, refusing to accommodate or who speak ill about gays, such an act is a Business Suicide.

  • Mpumelelo Matross - 2013-07-31 13:55

    Can we just stop with all the judgments....? GOD is the ultimate judge...simple finish and klaar

  • BornAgain_Believer - 2013-07-31 14:17

    Bible Prophecy is coming true...

  • Daryn Varney - 2013-07-31 14:50

    As so many are quick to point out, he hates the sin, not the sinner. Firstly, I thought he didn't hate anyone/thing, and if he hates the sin then why are homosexuals born that way? Why make a faulty product in the eyes of your religion/beliefs?

      Marnus Van Der Merwe - 2013-07-31 14:58

      @Daryn: Homosexuals are born the way they are due to many (possible) reasons which is debatable: *Sexual and physical abuse from parents/people, *Estrogen and an increased artificial hormones (ARV's, birth control ect.) in our drinking water and food products, *Generational and spiritual curses, who knows?! Its definitely not normal.

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