News24

Most SA youth oppose Pretoria name change

2012-10-17 13:27

Johannesburg - Almost three in five young South Africans feel that Pretoria should not be renamed Tshwane, according to a recent survey.

"This survey shows the issue of changing the names of cities is one that is controversial," said Butch Rice of consumer insights company Pondering Panda, which conducted the survey.

Fifty-eight percent of the youth felt Pretoria's name should stay, while 33% felt it should be changed. Ten percent were undecided.

In total, 3 451 respondents between the ages of 18 and 34 across South Africa, were polled.

Support for the name change varied among race groups.

While 52% of young black South Africans felt Pretoria's name should stay the same, 38% wanted it changed to Tshwane.

In contrast, about four in five young whites, Coloureds, and Indians were opposed to the name change.

In Gauteng, 57% of respondents felt Pretoria's name should stay the same while 73% of people from the Western Cape were against the name change.

Responses to the survey were weighted to be nationally representative of age, gender, and race.

Comments
  • junebugg.kinte - 2012-10-17 13:37

    I applaud the name change.

      sandra.j.rennie - 2012-10-17 13:54

      Junebugg - how would you like it if your mother changed your name everytime she felt like it ! Heavens you wouldn't know what to answer to ! Junebugg, Julybugg, Augbugg etc ! The whole world knows us as Pretoria so why the devil change it !

      christopher.shining - 2012-10-17 14:05

      if my name was zuma/malema/junebugg I would change it everyday as well.

      jacqui.daanevanrensburg - 2012-10-17 14:10

      junebugg.kinte. Yale university no less!!!!. What the one past Germiston?.

      FeebleGastro - 2012-10-17 14:15

      Kinte, if your name was Huye P. Newton you'd be better off to change it to POS.

      stevie0064 - 2012-10-17 14:18

      Any reason for your choice?

      moses.mabhida.52 - 2012-10-17 14:19

      i am of the belief that names should NOT be changed... we need to build new cities & towns then name them, new roads and factories and name them; new airports and shipyards and name them... we should only rename when the name is truly offensive to many - but as I have seen, 99% of the name changes in our country are a waste of time, waste of money and are not offensive to anyone. Let’s look to the future and stop living in the past.

      sani.ghana.3 - 2012-10-17 14:25

      The people have spoken, enough with this waste of money, this money must be spent on housing and jobs for the poor.

      stevie0064 - 2012-10-17 14:34

      @junebugg.kinte So you're saying the "parents" must decide on the name change? As in, the founders of the city? I agree. Let's find the oldest living descendant of Andries Pretorius and let them decide. Fair?

      rossanthony.regnart - 2012-10-17 14:41

      Yes, Junebug, if you were kidnapped and suffered a name change, by all means, change it back, but this argument (as i'm sure anyone with two functioning brain cells would be able to deduce) is invalid with regards pretoria. From what exactly was the name of pretoria changed? for as far as recorded history dictates, there was nothing there but wilderness, so please enlighten us heathen white folk and those less educated than yourself on the topic as to what exactly Pretoria, as a city, was called?

      junebugg.kinte - 2012-10-17 14:44

      stevie0064 - sure why not, the original name should be used ... by all means go find them...and they can also protest the new names and I will join them.

      njdejager - 2012-10-17 14:44

      @junebugg bug Pretoria was not Tshwane before and then hijacked. It was built and named by the people who built it....idiot

      junebugg.kinte - 2012-10-17 14:53

      @njdejager thats what the edited history tells you ?? Idiot

      jackie.stone.501 - 2012-10-17 14:55

      @sandra.j.rennie what if your mom named you Sh!%, would you not go change it when you get a chance

      rossanthony.regnart - 2012-10-17 15:20

      @junebugg,if as you say, the history has been changed, please, i ask you once again, inform us lower beings, oh almighty possessor-of-knowledge-changed-by-the-evil-white-man, we beg of you

      vicker.man.3 - 2012-10-17 15:26

      @junebugg - You are quite correct - considering that Pretoria was indeed hijacked, you may change it to anything you want now. It is no longer the Pretoria that I knew and was proud of 20 years ago. And your lack of intellectual ability shines through - "...if my name was Verwoed...she can change it everyday..." Considering if your name WAS Verwoerd (heaven forbid), and you changed it, no need to change it again cos it is no longer Verwoerd, so why change it every day then???? Or did I lose you there???

      abner.malema - 2012-10-17 15:59

      Most blacks will NEVER be deceived by the same tactics used during apartheid namely PROPAGANDA, DIVIDE AND RULE. Blacks were forced to use whites names but most are changing

      raath - 2012-10-17 17:15

      So Abner, when are you changing your name? Abner isn't very African, is it?

      gerald.parker.3956 - 2012-10-17 17:47

      Why did you take the U out of your name and put in an I

      bless.boswell - 2012-10-18 08:48

      Haai Gerald, sies man. Stick to the point.

      Mfaniseni Thusi - 2013-04-10 22:36

      These names carry bad memories they should be changed. I also don't understand why all the roads and buildings named after Jan Smuts are still existing? Actually everything named after Jan Smuts should have been renamed with O R Tambo. Ag man nee, we are so patronizing.

      Mfaniseni Thusi - 2013-04-10 22:41

      @Moses Mabhida, why did you change yours? Moses was a great man not anything like you. You are scared to use your real name I wonder why perhaps you worked fo M1.

  • ansie.fourie.940 - 2012-10-17 13:46

    Great Pretoria stays Pretoria

      stirrer.stirrer - 2012-10-17 14:11

      I'd prefer it that way. It won't be half as lekker making fun of Tshwane as it is making fun of Pretoria.

      christopher.shining - 2012-10-17 14:29

      if you make fun of Tshwane you would be called a racist!

      Andrea - 2012-10-17 14:47

      stirrer, pity then that Proes street is gone now.

  • tumisang.kolobe - 2012-10-17 13:52

    change is good

      kala.bafazi - 2012-10-17 13:55

      You should change

      tumisang.kolobe - 2012-10-17 14:01

      Who is this Pretorius??they must change it

      stevie0064 - 2012-10-17 14:20

      Progress is good. Change for the sake of change is ... unwise.

      moses.mabhida.52 - 2012-10-17 14:26

      look at the cost of changing all the signs maps etc! don’t tell me its good, we could spend this money on housing & schools. Tumisang, don’t cut your nose to spite your face – we in this together and need to make this country work. With around 30% unemployment we have bigger fish to fry than name change.

      marc.schnehage - 2012-10-17 14:36

      @kolobe: Who is this Tshwane? Nothing written about him in the history books. Ever. Pretorius, on the other hand, is a revered historical figure, who, in 1840, helped Mpande in his revolt against his half-brother, Dingane. Read about him instead of being a twat! YOU should change your brain - the current one isn't working too well!

      andres.dewet - 2012-10-17 14:45

      Change for the sake of change is a futile exercise. Change that costs millions, with no tangible benefits for the poor is no good. Change to play appeasement politics, whilst schools, hospitals and service-delivery is in shambles in no good. Tshwane is effectively the metro, Pretoria is part of that metro, just as Mamelodi, Centurion and Menlyn is. It's unnecessary, particularly so, when we should be attracting investment to internationally recognised cities, to build jobs and economic prosperity. It's nothing but a political exercise and does NOTHING for the people of Pretoria-Tshwane. New streets/buildings/towns/suburbs SHOULD be named after new heroes of our liberation, but to erase ALL historical names will only divide us further. Already, most Verwoed/Malan/Milner/Voster offensive names have been changed. How did Pretorius affect anyone alive today directly? Perhaps the American-Indians should declare Washington DC is offensive?

      wesley.bischoff - 2012-10-17 14:50

      And costs a sh*t load of money

      Klaus - 2012-10-17 15:25

      Will all charges be for your account ? Then go ahead, If Taxpayer has to pay, only paid up Tax payers can make this decision

      raath - 2012-10-17 17:17

      Yes, as tax payers fund the name changes (and every other frikken hairbrained scheme the cANCer comes up with) I say only paid-up tax payers should be allowed to vote. They must use your Tax reference number as your voting registration number.

  • bill.mckimm.9 - 2012-10-17 13:56

    A totally useless survey. Since when has the ANC cared about what the people think. Look out here comes JZWane, sorry Tshwane. It will be a case of crap on the people the ANC will make the change and we all can lump it and pay for it. Please mark my words.

  • crystal.core.5 - 2012-10-17 13:57

    Surely there are better things for the ANC to spend money on than name changes? If they want to name an airport after one of their comrades, they should build one and no one will care what they call it. If they want to name a street after one of thier cronies, they should build one and they can call it what they want... spending vast amounts of taxpayers money renaming everything after their cronies shows a complete lack of vision and sums up one of the many critical shortcomings of the ANC which is why they are in the mess they are: they are looking backwards instead of forwards.

      stevie0064 - 2012-10-17 14:30

      Liberation politics dictates that the 'liberators' need to be seen to transform the bad into the good. Renaming stuff, especially right before elections or membership drives, is an easy way of creating this illusion while not bothering with any 'heavy lifting' (real transformation). I'm surprised the majority of SA voters still fall for the same ruse time after time.

      napolita.kio - 2012-10-17 14:44

      @crystal.core.5 - "Surely there are better things for the ANC to spend money on than name changes?" this begs the question, better for who and at whose exclusion? What's "better" for JP/Paul/Sipho is not necessarily better for Mary/Zoleka/Nicollete? I hope my last line is better and inclusive of all Pretoria/Tshwane residents ;)

  • Andrea - 2012-10-17 13:58

    They should have a poll among the business owners, surely this and the street names already changed have had an unnecessary impact on expenses? Who cares really what a youth from Babethi Koswethi, who may never visit the city in their life, thinks?

      leon.coe.5 - 2012-10-17 14:29

      Spot on Andrea.

  • Sechaba30 - 2012-10-17 13:59

    I do not have a problem with Pretoria name.

      fanie.gerber1972 - 2012-10-17 14:07

      Thank you for your enlightened view - WHY has the history of virtually everything in this country need to be changed. What is more pressing, lack of sanitation and services, or changing a few names to sooth your ego. On the one hand the more difficult thing to do but also the least visible - sanitation systems is not where you can see them, or the cop out change a few names with bright red lines through the old ones....and your children die off horrible diseases borne by dirty water, streets etc. You decide - but make that decision with your head not your heart

  • sarecen.smith - 2012-10-17 14:00

    could we rather spend the cash on something that makes sense, education, housing? when will the anc realise a name change doesnt see your kid well fed or educated? do they think their people are stupid?

  • jomar.delange - 2012-10-17 14:02

    Pretoria-Tswane is a fair name.

      FeebleGastro - 2012-10-17 14:22

      Jabulani de Lange or Jomar Buthelezi are even fairer names.

      leon.coe.5 - 2012-10-17 14:36

      Hey Omnivore, I can see where you get your name from. You are happy to eat any sh?t that comes your way. Shame on you.

  • emil.scharf.75 - 2012-10-17 14:05

    It is a sensitive topic.While the names of many towns named after Boers were changed, the name Pretoria does not refer to a specific surname (Although Pretorius inspired the name).One could even go as far as to say it reminds of the Latin word Praetor or its adjectives praetorius, praetoricius, praetorianus which is appropriate for a proud Capital city,that is also our country's scientific and educational capital.City of Tshwane municipality is one of the three largest municipalities (in terms of area) in the world.It is therefore wise to let cities and towns within this large municipalty retain their names and identities,as it would be impossible to build one identity for towns so far apart as Centurion and Bronkhorstspruit.Not everything in our country's past was bad just like not everything is good now,but Pretoria was the capital of a proud Boer Republic of brave men and women that took on the mighty British empire.That should be an inspirational piece of history for all South Africans.We can find a way to honour the heritage of all ethnic/racial groups in our country, and that will make us a nation which is strong in its diversity.

      Klaus - 2012-10-17 15:37

      Reference: Lost Trails of the Transvaal by T.V.Bulpin - Page 91 ( Printed 1965 by Books of Africa (Pty) Ltd Cape Town

  • jacqui.daanevanrensburg - 2012-10-17 14:09

    Out of the mouths of babes we shall hear the truth. Bless them.

  • andre.vanhuyssteen.31 - 2012-10-17 14:20

    I think ALL current names should stay the same and all newly developed cities/places/projects by the goverment, should be named by the goverment.

      andrez.kolesky - 2012-10-17 14:33

      Nkandla comes to mind

  • ntsanen - 2012-10-17 14:35

    if every name in this country is going to be changed the whole of Free State will need to be change. the money wasted, would have done something important. Either my hometown is called Bloem or Mangaung make no difference to people

  • jackie.stone.501 - 2012-10-17 14:38

    WTF maybe you should have asked PTA youth, they are the one getting affected. But anyway what is done is done, now lets move on, they will get over it in time

  • Andrea - 2012-10-17 14:38

    smalefane, the lesson to be learnt here is that a minority can never be underestimated. Go back to your history class, get all your facts correct, and go pass it on to your kind. Believe me, you can learn nothing from Zom-boob-we more valuable than the history right under your nose.

  • phahla.matwa - 2012-10-17 14:45

    Most white Afrikaners r opposing da changes.

      irma.white.9 - 2012-12-06 11:57

      Did you not read the part where over 50% of young black South Africans oppose the name change? More than half the black voters = MOST of the black voters. Put two and two together instead of just simply reading what suits you.

  • sexyfancyface - 2012-10-17 14:48

    Name changing is the only thing the ANC does best without fail....strue...

      abner.malema - 2012-10-17 16:40

      You forgot! l

  • patricia.dewet.92 - 2012-10-17 14:53

    Another way of hiding incompetence. Now they can tell their voters, the money was not enough to build houses but at lease we changed the name. You must be so glad.

      Andrea - 2012-10-17 15:31

      sad that said voters will accept the excuse and put down that X again.

  • napolita.kio - 2012-10-17 14:55

    Oh my world.....!!!!! thank goodness for this article. I have always believed that the majority of people commenting on news24.com are from Pretoria/Tshwane. Great article news24.com team...!!! Wow....!!

  • simon.mwando - 2012-10-17 14:57

    Build your own cities and name them!

  • Gerald Jordaan - 2012-10-17 15:08

    F*ck the ANC..leave Pretoria ALONE !! Change Zuma's name to Jacob F*cknut !!

  • Andrea - 2012-10-17 15:23

    It is clear why the priorities are so very screwed up ... just read these posts. So many things far more important than changing a name for the sake of putting down a bloody pawprint.

  • ian.vanhelsdingen - 2012-10-17 15:32

    "In the sequel to the Battle of Blood River in January 1840, prince Mpande finally defeated Dingane in the Battle of Maqongqe, and was subsequently crowned as new king of the Zulus by his alliance partner Andries Pretorius. After these two battles of succession, Dingane's prime minister and commander in both the Battle of Maqonqe and the Battle of Blood River, general Ndlela, was strangled to death by Dingane on account of high treason. General Ndlela had been the personal protector of prince Mpande, who after the Battles of Blood River and Maqongqe, became king and founder of the Zulu dynasty." - WIKIPEDIA... this info (verified internationally to be correct) indicates that Andries Pretorius was in fact an ally of the Zulu King Mpande... how can you suddenly hate a man who fought a war in alliance with a Zulu king?? Seriously??

  • zionpercival.pay - 2012-10-17 15:33

    This issue has nothing to do with Names but rather political inches gained.

  • ian.vanhelsdingen - 2012-10-17 15:35

    "On 6 February 1838, two days after the signing of a negotiated land settlement deal between Retief and Dingane at UmGungundlovu, which included Trekker access to Port Natal in which Britain had imperial interest, Dingane invited Retief and his party into his royal residence for a beer-drinking farewell. The accompanying request for the surrender of Trekker muskets at the entrance was taken as normal protocol when appearing before the king. While the Trekkers were being entertained by Dingane's dancing soldiers, Dingane suddenly accused the visiting party of witchcraft.[citation needed] Dingane's soldiers then proceeded to impale all Retief's men, lastly clubbing to death Retief, while leaving the Natal treaty in his handbag intact.[citation needed] Immediately after the UmGungundlovu massacre, Dingane sent out his impis (regiments) to attack several Trekker encampments at night time, killing an estimated 500 men, women, children, and servants, most notably at Blaukraans.[2] Help arrived from farmers in the Cape Colony, and the Trekkers in Natal subsequently requested the pro-independence Andries Pretorius to leave the Cape Colony, in order to dethrone chief Dingane. After the Battle of Blood River, the Dingane-Retief treaty was found on Retief's bodily remains,[3] providing a driving force for an overt alliance against Dingane between Zulu prince Mpande and Pretorius."- Wikipedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Blood_River)

      stevie0064 - 2012-10-17 15:46

      Unfortunately this issue, and I suspect many other name changes, is not about applied history, but rather Pan-Africanist Imperialism.

  • ian.vanhelsdingen - 2012-10-17 15:40

    In light of the above stated historical facts I provide the following counter-argument to those proponents of the name change of said city : F*#K YOU ANC!!

  • koketso.senabe - 2012-10-17 15:42

    How about we go to Europe and ask them how they feel about South Africa changing its name to Azania... We'll get responses like \Azania? No no no nah stick to South Africa, much easier for us to pronounce\... Inconclusive and irrelevant results. Next time ask those who will be directly affected by the change, not some1 in CPT. When Pietersburg changed to Polokwane, no Cape Townians were asked.

      gerald.parker.3956 - 2012-10-17 17:46

      Are you completely stupid. Changing the name of a town or city i South Africe affects evryone living here. What do you thinks the costs will be in changing the name. give you a few hints, every steet map, everyone ID Document, Drivers Licence details, every business letterheads ,invoices etc will have to change. are you going to pay for all of that.NO then shut up. When Polokwane was changed tell me who was asked.

  • liamkie - 2012-10-17 15:57

    Haha.. S@!€? Guys. By the time I come down to South Africa visiting family, I will not know where the eff they are.. Because of all the name changes.

  • amanda.matthews.14811 - 2012-10-17 15:59

    The only thing that the ANC are good at doing is renaming everything in this Country. They of course would rather do it out of spite rather than use the money for the development and upgrading the lives of the very people who voted for them. Kind of a slap in the face dont you think?

  • aj.oosthuizen.7 - 2012-10-17 16:00

    I don't get it... It's our REAL capital! When i visited Europe, the people there new Pretoria (okey and Cape Town) but when they thought of our capital, the answer was ALWAYS Pretoria....You can't just change the name of your capital city, this is complete and utter stupidity!

  • abner.malema - 2012-10-17 17:09

    WE need to change white mindset. Blacks are majority but SA does not show NAMES senior managetment at all institutions. if you look at the map of SA you will think you're somewhere in Europe. An excuse of money being used irresponsible does not hold water. If you have a problem go back from where you come from

      raath - 2012-10-17 17:40

      You should really get over yourself, stop whining, and build something new, just like said Europeans did when they landed here.

      bless.boswell - 2012-10-18 08:45

      Abner: get off your backside and build some new and impressive landmarks which you can name after memorable black people. Leave some history for the whites who have helped to build this country and have been here longer than your family has been here. We can prove it - we have records - do you? Look at SA now and compare it with SA in 1993. Do you like what you see? If you do, then you need help.

      bless.boswell - 2012-10-18 08:46

      Thank you Raath - my thoughts exactly.

  • bless.boswell - 2012-10-18 08:38

    Why not leave history be. It can't be changed. New names are not going to make history disappear. Why can government not build new towns and monuments which they can then name with pride? I wonder why white memories are such a threat - only 1 in 10 is white. The only way to make it really go away is to flatten everything and start again. Now that would be something to see :)

  • Ncube Tseke - 2013-04-05 15:30

    For the sake of preserving the history of our country name changes should not be done at all on already streets and buildings and towns having names in Pretoria as that is a waste of state monies. What the municipal council should do is to name new streets, buildings and other things

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