'Murder on a massive scale' at Marikana

2012-08-30 14:10

Johannesburg - Police shot dead strikers at Lonmin's Marikana mine "in cold blood", a Pulitzer Prize-winning photographer alleged on Thursday, after he spent 15 days probing the violence that killed 44.

"Heavily armed police hunted down and killed the miners in cold blood," photographer Greg Marinovich wrote on the Daily Maverick news website.

Marinovich spent more than two weeks at the Lonmin platinum mine in Marikana, interviewing witnesses and taking photos after police opened fire on striking workers on August 16.

Officers shot dead 34 and injured 78 after a stand-off between rival unions had already killed 10, including two police officers.

Out of sight

Television cameras screened the shooting live, which police afterwards justified as self-defence.

However, at least 20 were killed out of sight of the cameras, surviving strikers and researchers told Marinovich.

"A minority were killed in the filmed event where police claim they acted in self-defence. The rest was murder on a massive scale."

Photographs with the article showed the letter "N" painted by police forensic experts on a rock crevice 300 metres behind the hill where the shooting was filmed.

The letter indicates corpse number 14 in forensic investigation.

"Approaching N from all possible angles, observing the local geography, it is clear that to shoot N, the shooter would have to be close," said Marinovich.

Close range

"After having spent days here at the bloody massacre site, it does not take too much imagination for me to believe that N might have begged for his life on that winter afternoon.

"It is hard to imagine that N would have resisted being taken into custody when thus cornered. There is no chance of escape out of a ring of police."

"J and H died alongside each other. They, too, had no route of escape and had to have been shot at close range," he added.

Marinovich also described a bloody handprint stain on a rock, while other rocks were splattered with blood.

An eyewitness told the photographer armoured police trucks had driven over some strikers.

The witness also said he believed people were hiding in the koppie and police went in and killed them. Most people were shot in the back or run over by Nyalas, and many were unrecognisable, he claimed.

No police comment

President Jacob Zuma last week appointed a judicial commission of inquiry into the events on the day, while police are also conducting an independent investigation.

Police watchdog spokesperson Moses Dlamini declined to comment on the Daily Maverick report.

"I can't comment until I've read the article and spoken to investigators," he told AFP.

The Star newspaper on Monday reported most of the dead were shot in the back while fleeing.

Marinovich won the Pulitzer Prize in 1991 for his coverage of township violence at the end of apartheid. His story as part of the Bang Bang Club, four photographers who covered the conflicts, was told in a book and Hollywood film.

- Daily Maverick story.

  • zane.zeiler - 2012-08-30 14:29

    I'm no forensic expert, but is it possible that N, J and H found 300m + away from the scene might have been injured suspects fleeing and dying somewhere else? If bullet casings were found in close proximity to N, J and H it would be another story but until then I call BS on Marinovich's story!

      peterdonb - 2012-08-30 15:52

      Jip, good point. Now even Marinovich became an expert? LOL. He was laughed at after the nonsense he sprouted about Boipatong in the early 1990' and now he's at it again. I have never seen anyone run so fast away from trouble, than Greg at Boipatong. Greg, stick with the photos and the 'bang bang club' OK. Leave the investigations to the experts, OK? Leave this one to the Commission and the results of the forensic investigations. It is easy to sit in your Ivory Tower and give yourself out as an expert, which you are NOT! I also call BS on Marinovich's story and with a twist. He is trying to court attention!

      blip.noodlum - 2012-08-30 21:46

      When you take a high-velo R5 hit big enough to bleed out, you can't run 300m without leaving a large blood trail on the way. In fact, you won't run 300m with any fatal bullet wound, even a .22 slug.

      zane.zeiler - 2012-08-30 22:58

      @blip.'noob'lim, first of all the R5 rifle fires the 5.56mm NATO round which is not classified as a high velocity round. And secondly one won't leave a large blood trail with internal bleeding or say something like a hemothorax in which case it is possible to run much further than 300m before collapsing and dying...

      blip.noodlum - 2012-08-31 00:32

      When you get hit by an R5, you stay hit. You don't go on a 300m jog, bloodlessly, and then bleed out there. (And anything over 3000fps is regarded as high-velo. A R5 just squeezes in.)

      duane.low - 2012-08-31 08:22

      you cant guess how far one can run when shot with the R5? have you been shot by one? have you shot a person with one? i do a lot of hunting and it all boils down to shot placement! end of! yes i agree with Zane..... very possible. anyhow of course all the people will cry foul they got f*^k#d up solid! since when can you intimidate police? scratch in the lions ass and he WILL bite you! anyway i thought we "blame it on the bunny?" well done SAP.

      hondbyt - 2012-08-31 10:36

      @blip, oh deer lord, there you go on again about exsanguination, you know that there are multiple ways of dying from 'n GSW besides bleeding out? Hypovolemic shock caused by internal bleeding, Hemothorax or Pneumothorax etc. Read a book or something... Also, 5.56x45mm NATO rounds can travel at depending on the barrel length 760m/s (2500ft/s) and with the R5's short barrel I bet it gets much lower velocity than that, so it falls short of your 3000ft/s claim wherever that comes from anyway. Then you get the 5.56X45mm High Velocity 77-grain OTM bullets which travel at more or less 2800ft/s again depending on barrel length, mostly favored by special forces and not issued to police or standard military as they are very expensive (so I doubt SAPS use those).

  • roger.howdy - 2012-08-30 14:34

    What about the Police that got Murdered there is nothing about them!!!!

      leon.starker.1 - 2012-08-30 14:47

      Go read the DM article - it is possible that the "murdered" police opened fire on a group, who then reacted and attacked them, killing two policemen. So far we've only been fed the "official" story, i.e. the police version of events.

      ullrich.brand - 2012-08-30 17:54

      @leon The first time the police used live ammunition is one week later than when the 12 people got killed. The 2 policemen that died, died by the hands of strikers. The 8 strikers that died, died by the hands of opposing unions' strikers. This was clearly not a peaceful protest. If you were standing next to a police officer and saw your buddy get murdered a week earlier by the protesters, You would also use live ammunition if 2000 strikers keep coming at you while you are firing rubber bullets and tear gas at them. How many police needs to die to save the lives of these criminals to prove they did the right thing.

  • ish.mkhonto.7 - 2012-08-30 14:35

    Tired of this disturbing news & pics, I believe a lesson was learnt - any new constructive news.

  • zandernh - 2012-08-30 14:35

    Leave it to forensics, hardly going to take the opinions of some photographer about what really happened - since stirring things up is what gets them paid...

      blip.noodlum - 2012-08-30 21:47

      A Pulitzer prizewinner. Knows his craft.

  • shirley.steenkamp - 2012-08-30 14:38

    Once again,the strikers were angels ! Being and armed thug in this country makes you a hero! Sickening!

  • customdesign - 2012-08-30 14:39

    I cannot see a motive why police would kill so many people in cold blood. The eye witnesses in this case who would definitely be strikers would also have a bias towards the other strikers.

  • BigChiefPlumbPudding - 2012-08-30 14:47

    It's not too hard to imagine this, and it's not too hard to imagine that.... Investigations are not based on a reporters imagination (thank goodness), but rather on forensic evidence. It's as good as saying I imagine they shot themselves and their buddies removed the firearms and casings. Imagine imagine imagine.......

      graeme.aitken.545 - 2012-08-30 17:11

      Hey Plumb pudding..just because you wear a beret on your head doesn't make you an expert, Malema wears one and he's a D@@$, SO WHAT DOES THAT MAKE YOU ?

  • alex.degroot.370 - 2012-08-30 14:48

    What happened first? Were police officers first hacked to death with pangas before the miners were shot dead? How come everyone is defending the armed mine workers who were killed but have total disregard for the policemen who were killed prior to the miners being shot? How come everyone was trying to arrange funeral plans for the deceased miners and educational policies for their children but nothing for the murdered police officers? If you hack two police officers to death do you realy think their colleagues are going to stand back and say: "Let's talk about this?" The miners that were on the koppie after the police officers were murdered should have known better. If I am part of a strike and my fellow colleagues start killing people I will use common sense and walk away - not get a muti man to protect me from the consequences and then pitch up "unvincible" the next day.

  • leon.starker.1 - 2012-08-30 14:48

    Go read the Daily Maverick article: So far we've only been fed the "official" story, i.e. the police's version of events.

      BigChiefPlumbPudding - 2012-08-30 15:36

      Leon - many videos are out there showing what happened. I will certainly not put 1 ounce of faith in any of the newspaper reports.

  • pennykatz - 2012-08-30 14:49

    To win a prize for something, means you good at your job, it does not mean they winning a prize for facts. Even the Sunday Times have won a prize for a story on police, which is based on photos that are doctored and bought. Just because they sold an exorbitant amount of papers does not make it non fiction. One day I would be humbled to meet a person who won a prize for printing facts.

  • zwelithini.gagayi - 2012-08-30 14:59

    South African people please accept this as another side of the story. We have seen the side of the tv channels and other reporters, it is good to see the side of the reporter who has nothing to gain from the situation.

      BigChiefPlumbPudding - 2012-08-30 16:25

      I'd rather see the 'side' of the forensic evidence than the version of any reporter.

      blip.noodlum - 2012-08-30 21:51

      Remember how even the "official" state coroner helped the cops concoct the cock-and-bull story about how Steve Biko died "of natural causes" and how it took some investigative digging by a Rand Daily Mail journalist to reveal the truth -- that Biko was murdered by cops? That RDM journo was none other than Helen Zille.

  • timothy.tanzer.5 - 2012-08-30 15:00

    Time to call in the ginger!

  • abram.spamers - 2012-08-30 15:00

    This is the ultimate form of grasping at straws. He actually uses the words "imagination" and "believe". Media sensationalism drives me nuts.

  • hermann.hanekom - 2012-08-30 15:09

    Oh gee, that is what went wrong when I photographed the 747 crashing at Cape Town International Airport - the aircraft was out of sight. My apologies as I am only a non-prize winning ammature photographer.

  • dnxumalo2 - 2012-08-30 15:11

    Self defense and cold blood are two different things.If by any chance death penalty is reinstated I wish these police be the first to hang.

      roelfensusanne.mare - 2012-08-30 15:34

      im sure the main object of the strickers were to kill the police which was far the minority. The policy didnt hunt them down as stated by the stupid auther of this article but they were charging the police. Two of the police and two of the security guards were already killed by the protestors. What could have happened with the police if they didnt shoot to kill???Dont be stupid and comment on something you dont understand!!

      BigChiefPlumbPudding - 2012-08-30 15:49

      dnx#$%^78 - Obviously you're having difficulty understanding the facts of this incident - it's way over your head. If you cannot walk your mind through the simple process of some very basic legal principles, then rather just admit that don't understand.

  • heathway.master - 2012-08-30 15:11

    Ten people had already been murdered by the strikers at this point and the murderous strikers, after having been put into a trance like state by the Sangoma, who assured them that they were immune to police bullets, rushed the police with the sole objective as killing as many of them as possible. If you watch the videos, the armed strikers were a few metres away from their intended first victim, before the police opened up. I put the loss of life fairly and squarely on the police commissioner who came out with an order that the police were not to resort to the inhumane practise of using non lethal buck shot. If one reads about the chaotic state of the country in 1985, 20 policemen held off a frenzied mob of 40 000, just armed with shotguns firing buckshot. The same incompetent police commissioner also issued the instruction that the police were not to intimidate mobs by using horrendous means such as rubber bullets. Due to this ignorant idiousy, all they had was live ammunition to defend themselves with. So Greg just stop criticising the police, as their moronic commissioner left them no other choice but to use lethal means to control the murderous strikers. They were being fired on themselves, and I wonder what the very brave and heroic Greg would have done in similar circumstances. Kiss them all and shake their hands I surpose, before his body was completely dismembered.

  • justin.massyn - 2012-08-30 15:17

    You know something, i stopped reading after "hunted down"...... My friend, give me your email address so that i can send you the photos currently doing the rounds of the two security guards that were burnt the week before. Their faces were hacked open with a panga by these f@cking savages. Again, the lot of them should be shot, every last one of them. I have seen similar behavior on National Geographic from chimpanzees, if the shoe fits!!!

      andrew.surtees1 - 2012-08-30 15:54

      agree with you 100% brother!

  • Kyle McLaren - 2012-08-30 15:20

    Did he bother to interview police? Did he investigate whether "N, J, H" were armed with pangas, spears or firearms? Sounds like he's on a witch hunt...

      blip.noodlum - 2012-08-30 21:52

      A fact hunt.

  • sw.heerden - 2012-08-30 15:24

    Did anyone actually thought ab out that the fact that a bullet doesn't stop when it hits someone. A bullet will ricochet from a rock and still be deadly. If those miners where shot near those locations shots would have been heard. But there is no mention of this? I find it very likely that those were critically wounded and "escaped" to those locations. Then there is the fact that those miners actually get 4-5K out not counting bonuses, and after all their subtractions like housing, medical aid etc. If you add it all up its around 10K. I get less then that and I have an engineering degree. They want 12K after subtractions.... Then there is the fact the strikers in SA have a history of being overly violent. Just look at any strike in the past, anywhere else they would call it a riot. Those miners where all armed and charging at the police. And according to our constitution you are not allowed to strike while armed. They where armed and had been given muti which they have been told should make invisible. They had no fear of a consequence. They where charging to attack the police.

      sw.heerden - 2012-08-30 15:33

      O and I forgot the mention the two security guards that where burned to death in the car. Did they also attack the miners?

      BigChiefPlumbPudding - 2012-08-30 15:33

      Correct, but this is not what the 'revolutionaries' want to hear, so unfortunately the facts are not a priority in this incident, and never will be. This incident will be twisted to suit someone's political agenda.

      blip.noodlum - 2012-08-30 21:55

      A bullet doesn't ricochet backwards and kill someone a full 300m away in a rocky cleft completely outside the line of sight of the police fusillade.

  • leon.roelofse.9 - 2012-08-30 15:27

    Darryl, seems like here as well, people are only allowed to hear what people want them to hear....Good old journalism for you. I've read Bang-Bang Club. Unfortunately Marinovich is a purveyor of the dramatic. I won't disagree that poeple wouldn't have been shot in the back, it was complete pandemonium but in the video you also see how they waited to attack in the long grass. With weapons. If after I saw how they hack a colleague to death, after I clean my pants, I would also shoot blindly. It is unfortunately not the most straight forward event ever so a lot of people are going to use it to their advantage. Ask old Julius.

      BigChiefPlumbPudding - 2012-08-30 15:28


  • mike.clery - 2012-08-30 15:29

    Yeah, the Queen, Elvis and other members of the Illuminati positioned the news crews so they couldn't film this.

      blip.noodlum - 2012-08-30 22:00

      The news and film crews were positioned where the police allowed them to be. At the scene of any potentially violent public confrontation where the cops are in control, they order any bystanders to go and stand only where ordered. Journos don't roam about where they like.

  • had.enuf.1 - 2012-08-30 15:33

    In the Daily Maverick article, Marinovich stated "It is hard to imagine that N would have resisted being taken into custody when thus cornered". Well, why not, given that it is hard to imagine people arming themselves and shooting at the police in the first place.

  • graeme.aitken.545 - 2012-08-30 15:34

    The problem with common sense is that it is not that common. {Remember the Battle of Blood River} Ask yourself this...if the crowd was faced with a wall of police dressed in body armour and armed with pump action shotguns, would the crowd have charge the police with Panga's...obviously NOT. If shots were fired from the crowd and the police reacted by opening fire with dozens of pump action shotguns....Would the crowd have scattered in all directions ? ...obviously YES. Buckshot hurts like hell at a distance but is seldom lethal,CROWD DISPERSSED....MISSION ACCOMPLISHED. Dozens of automatic weapons vs hundreds of Panga's and a hand gun is no contest...and cold blooded murder, nothing less. Sharp point ammunition {R4 automatic weapons} should have been the back up plan, not the frontline approach. Crazy

      Sandy - 2012-08-30 15:46

      graeme - you seem to have missed all the bits about the Sangoma and the fact that many of these guys thought they were invincible and protected by R500 - R1000 muti............

      dewalds3 - 2012-08-30 15:49

      A lone sane voice..

      BigChiefPlumbPudding - 2012-08-30 15:58

      graeme - unfortunately these things never unfold according to common sense, so chuck that theory out the window. When emotions are high and people believe in their cause and are willing to die for it, common sense is not present and will not prevail. Nothing happens in an 'obvious' way in these tragic scenarios, so your very logical approach of obviously this and obviously that is also nothing more than thumb suck, speculation and your own opinion which with respect is probably not based on any experience.

      blip.noodlum - 2012-08-30 22:02

      Proper riot control isn't a new invention. It's foresight, not hindsight.

  • jaco.s.scheepers - 2012-08-30 15:36

    Blah, blah, blah, blah, blah !!!!!

  • lungelo.yili - 2012-08-30 15:37

    i read this, its like one of those Jason Bourne books. i'll wait for the locals to conclude their reports. foreign tabloids just sell sensationlism

      blip.noodlum - 2012-08-30 22:04

      Daily Maverick IS a local SA publication and Greg Marinovich is a SA local.

  • Sandy - 2012-08-30 15:44

    methinks Marinovich is feeling left out after the gap since the Bang Bang club - so is looking for some publicity!

  • shireen.chodree - 2012-08-30 15:47

    I can't understand all the hype about the miners. Were the policemen that were killed not human. Why are their deaths not being mentioned. What about their families. What about the other miners that that was amongst the 10 killed first. What are we becoming in this country and where will we draw the line. Was the first 10 people killed not important enough to mention. I am so disgusted. Why did the president and Malema not go an speak when other's were being murdered. Do we have more sympathy for murderers in this country. Do all sectors of the corporate world now rise up and become lawless when you don't get what you want. What about bank staff, do they earn less than a miner, then why did they have to complete school. How many of them demand to earn r12 500 when they start at the bank. Hell, South Africans, we are slowly finishing this country and when there's nothing left anymore. Where to from there.

  • arthur.salvado - 2012-08-30 15:50

    Why so little said about the killed policemen ? The tv depicts a frightening picture of those miners charging the police with their terrible killing weapons. I would have shot the charging miners. Anyone who is brave enough to deny that under the same circumstances they would not have shot, is simply talking BS. Well done cops.

  • henry.tshilenge - 2012-08-30 15:51

    Why most of you here always comment with your feeling and not your brain?

  • bdanney - 2012-08-30 15:52

    This is pure speculation at its best. The issue here is Greg Marinovich is making a call based on letters spray painted onto rocks. This letter as I understand from the article on Daily Maverick identifies the body. He goes into great detail about how blood pooled, and how the location made it impossible for the shooter to kill this person at anything but close range and therefore it is murder. What he has no knowledge of is what was N doing? Could N have had a weapon, could N have been preparing to attack a Police officer? He (Greg Marinovich) just concludes N was killed for no reason because no police were injured on the day. In Greg Marinovich deluded World N would have to have been beating the cop to death in order to justify N being killed. I see Greg Marinovich for what Greg Marinovich is, a conspiracy theorist providing a theory based on little evidence.

      Fikile Magadla - 2012-08-30 16:36

      I think south African community is so used of death to a point that they are happy about what the police did.If the research and all the pictures show this was murder then Justice must prevail.Phiyega,Nathi the rest of the police must be accountable

  • andrew.surtees1 - 2012-08-30 15:52

    show us the pictures if you have these clams, you a prize winner photographer! or ar you just making this up? the video clearly shows how those idiots who believed a witch doctor could save them from bullets! brother if you gonna run at me with a knife and have the balls to kill me then ill do the same if i have a gun in my hands! either way someone was gonna die there,someone was gonna be fatherless and what would of been said if the police were murdered in cold blood? a couple of days early these savage excuse for humans killed to police by lurning them up the mountain to talk, they cut them up and couldnt give a stuff! now imagine how their families are suffering today because of what they did!

      Raoul Duke - 2012-08-30 16:02

      Pictures are all here. With the story. I know it's long, and you seem new to reading, but take your time. Try to be honest with yourself. Think... The more you think, the more you think. Don't just believe what you are shown. Who do you think controls the media?

  • maduvha.mukusha - 2012-08-30 15:53

    Wait until Police goes for a white person, majority of white who are supporting a black man's death will cry foul. Malema is right, majority whites will never love a black person, they claim to be the advocates of constitution but when a black soul is killed they celebrate.

      burningdogz - 2012-08-30 16:18

      You are a racist. Your statement is sweeping assuming that all white people this and white people that. Why? Is it because that is the perception created by the commentors of news 24? Shall I make some sweeping statements too? All black people are corrupt. There. Our statements are equally valid sice they are both based on equally invalid information. Frankly I am sick of overdramatic muppets like you telling me who and what I am because I am white. Sound familiar? Reality check son! Most people are not happy with the killings, but some are not shocked or saddened by it as these particular set played with what, now that they got burned I am suppose to shed a tear? Maybe its a culture clash but when I grew up I was told to take responsibility for my actions and to own up to the consequences. So to put it bluntly, these black souls under discussion weren't exactly innocent little angels as they so desperately try to pretend. Catch a wake up, because dingaan knows you need one when you think Malema is talking sense.

      bobo.jane.1 - 2012-08-30 16:25

      It` the same the other way around, so get over it...And tell me what on earth is there to love about blacks, hmmmm ?

      mike.clery - 2012-08-30 17:45

      No, it's about supporting the rule of law, not black and white. I for one can't support a group who've basically threatening to kill anyone who doesn't agree with them (as they did in the days *before* the police opened fire on them): "I say let us deal with them when they come back from work," Sandiso Mpumlwana, a member of the workers committee, told the crowd gathered near the mine. Mpumlwana warned that the police would not protect returning workers in their homes, as officers kept watch from a distance on the crowd which gathered near where police shot dead 34 people. "Police can't protect them forever, they don't sleep with them in their shacks," he said through a loud hailer to a rousing applause.

      parys.fotograaf - 2012-08-30 18:07

      I support no-ones death. I do support police actions which aims to keep the peace.

      chris.steytler.1 - 2012-08-30 21:13

      even if it peace via murder

      blip.noodlum - 2012-08-30 22:09

      Black cops killed black miners. Earlier black miners killed black cops and black watchmen. A white journalist is reporting here on these callous murders of black miners. Would he really do so if he didn't care? This story has to do with cruelty, not race.

  • ana.curcic - 2012-08-30 15:54

    B/S . Next time Y stand in front police and see how U react to that bunch of criminals.

  • Raoul Duke - 2012-08-30 15:59

    Please have a look at this link. It shows the these miners' side from a perspective you might understand. "Statistically speaking, a Marikana massacre occurs many times every year beneath the surface of South Africa's mining badlands. In 2010, 128 legal mineworkers lost their lives. This is a marked improvement on the figure of 309 for 1999, but it is still roughly three times the number of workers who lost their lives in the recent Marikana tragedy." Consider working somewhere and knowing that on average, in a good month, someone you work with dies every 3 days. In bad years, almost 2 people die per day. I would want more money and better conditions, especially considering the value of my labour to my employers.

      parys.fotograaf - 2012-08-30 18:10

      Please put that into perspective by checking out the numbers of farmer killed on the same time frames. Then come write to us how that struck you.

      Raoul Duke - 2012-08-30 20:25

      The two have nothing to do with each other, except for the fact that both tragedies result from political malice and police incompetence. You can't justify killing miners because farmers are also killed. These drill operators do hard work for little pay. And for what? So SA can export platinum and a select few people can benefit. Don't be a dick. A life is a life

      blip.noodlum - 2012-08-30 22:17

      Farmers aren't any more special than any other category of people. Per capita, far more police, more cashvan-drivers, watchmen, more many other job-categories end up murdered than white farmers. It's deplorable, but to single out farmers for an extra-special boohoo sob-story disrespects the victims doing other jobs. And those who go on and on about farm murders are starting to be ignored. They're over-egging their pudding.

  • andre.vandeventer.16 - 2012-08-30 16:00

    He is nothing but a conspiracy theorist. Next thing he will be telling all and sundry that the moon landing was staged!

  • Barbara - 2012-08-30 16:16


  • tiaan.truter - 2012-08-30 16:16

    okay Marinovich,lets do this this way...We dress you in police clothes and put u alone there @ the mines,then repeat that whole thing where the workers stormed the police with pangas and sh*t.Lets see if u will use you weapon....Stupid attention seeking prick.

      Fikile Magadla - 2012-08-30 16:27

      I knew that the killings had a lot fishy going on.why shoot people that are running for their lives,continue to shoot at the back if they are looks like someone is scared that He/She is in trouble.hello!!!!

  • diederik.vanthof - 2012-08-30 16:38

    Attention seeking drivel!

  • fanie.kuhn - 2012-08-30 17:00

    To: Veldt66. Im a ex-cope. You haven't been in this type off situation, you DON'T know what is going on!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

      blip.noodlum - 2012-08-30 22:19

      You don't need to be a fish to know how to swim.

  • andre.olivier.963 - 2012-08-30 17:01

    Yes and so Mr Marinovich after the war we are all Generals-just a pitty you were not there when the shooting started but - only start writing garble 2 weeks after it happens -i can tell you a diffrent story in 3 weeks time all sucked out of my ass...because way back in the passed i did get a prize for someting and now i feel a bit left out of the limelight...go and take soem photos of the daisys in the veld you might learn someting from them.

      blip.noodlum - 2012-08-30 22:28

      And a coroner can't ever work backwards and discover a cause of death because he wasn't actually at the death scene when the person died, I suppose? A detective can't detect unless he's an actual eye-witness,hey? (What sort of nonsense passes itself off as thoughts in your head?) Marinovich is detecting -- piecing together EVIDENCE in a logical, systematic way to arrive at what appears a logical and systematic conclusion. NOT just blindly taking a cop's word for it just because he's a cop and you feel sorry for cops. Cops stuff up sometimes. And stuff up really big time when they kill people when it isn't necessary to do so. When they shoot someone in the back, 300m away from the presumed spear-charge and in the opposite direction too.

  • graeme.aitken.545 - 2012-08-30 17:03

    Hey Sandy / Big Chief PP / Rademan I said "common sense" Sandy...Sangoma or not, when your ass starts stinging like hell fire from buckshot then common sense clicks in and you get the hell out of there and start looking for the Muti-man for a refund. Big Chief Plumb Pudding....never mind if emotions were high, the group bravado of being willing to "die" for the cause soon disappears when the first shots are fired...the only thing they are "dying" to do then is get the hell out of the way of the burning doesn't need experience to figure that out....just common sense, maybe you should take the beret off your head and give your brain a chance to breathe. Rademan...yes they were were the Zulu's at the battle of blood river and we know who came second, you can't compare live automatic weapons with spears, Panga's and the odd hand gun. I see you are quite proud of the Police...but what are you talking about "holding their ground ? crap they were moving backwards while firing into a defenseless that's NOT common sense. Murder..finish and Klaar

      BigChiefPlumbPudding - 2012-08-30 17:15

      Bollocks graeme - if life were so simple that we could just apply common sense and logic after the fact, and outside the tension, emotions, and real threat on that hour on that tragic day. Perhaps you should just admit you know diddly squat about these things and how they actually unfold in real life, as your comments clearly show.

      blip.noodlum - 2012-08-30 22:35

      Cops feel threatened. Blow away the source of the immediate threat. And then (because the adrenaline is now really pumping) chase fleeing men 300m and shoot them in the back. While the first fusillade might be excusable, the second hunt-and-kill is most certainly not. If it is, all that a cop needs to justify killing any member of the public would be that you got his blood up. By backchatting. By showing contempt. By spitting. By slapping. And, BOOM, you're dead. Got a cop's blood up, so you must die. Aah... life in a police state...

  • parys.fotograaf - 2012-08-30 18:04

    I think most law abiding citizens are pretty gatvol of strikes and strikers in general. Therefore it is not strange to me that these miners get little sympathy. I actually think people would not mind seeing the municipal workers who go on strike every year also get beaten up badly, perhaps even see a few killed if that's what it takes to get them to keep their actions peaceful. Enough is enough even for ordinary folk who just want to get on with their daily business.

      Raoul Duke - 2012-08-30 20:34

      Yeah, actually, just get the army in with fully automatic weapons and live ammunition. Or just give the police more freedom and make them less accountable. Do you understand what you are suggesting? Legal positivism... Obey or die! Have you ever stopped on a yellow line, or in a handi-capped parking space? Have you never driven your car after having a drink? What exactly is a law-abiding citizen? If you want to be fair, you have to be fair and punish ALL crimes, no matter how small, as it creates a culture of law breaking. Open your eyes mate. Your police are just hired thugs doing the dirty work of a corrupt government. Your politicians are a gang of criminals. Actually, ALL politicians are criminals. What kind of person wants to assume power over the lives of others? Sort yourself out and leave me to live my life. I say it again, all politics are corrupt, and YOU are the fool for allowing yourself to be lied to. At least TRY to see all sides before you call for mass murder, otherwise you might as well be pulling the trigger yourself.

      blip.noodlum - 2012-08-30 22:37

      Black cop pulls you over because your brake-light isn't working. Gives you a rude talking to. You get angry and backchat him. He shoots you dead. It's all okay, is it? (NOT!)

  • boltonbarry - 2012-08-30 18:13

    Show us the evidence Mr. Photographer

      blip.noodlum - 2012-08-30 22:38

      It's on the dailymaverick website.

  • ockert.mouton - 2012-08-30 20:31

    Lesson: Don't come to a gun fight with a knife!

  • wenzeslaus.majola - 2012-08-30 23:26

    Truth on the Marikana will always lie buried in the anals of our history. Protestors carried weapons and by implication were ready for war. Police claim their intelligence and logistics justified them using extreme measures in dealing with armed protestors. Both scenarios pre-empted the final outcome - loss of 44 lives. The question is who benefits out of this? People bent on discrediting current ANC leadership, the government it leads to install pals who will dance to their tune. Forget Malela and his cronies umlilo wamaphepha

  • theunis.botha.96 - 2012-08-30 23:35

    Good.He openly admits that he imagined certain perceived assumptions as seen and interpreted through his Walter Mitty eyes.

  • brionyl.french - 2012-08-31 05:27

    These miners brought this nonsence on themselves, fire the ones who dont want to work... Hire people who do, and if they strike and die tough you shouldnt be striking in a violent manner!!!! im so sick of these people crying when they brought this upon themselves!!! no pity no disgust. GROW THE FAK UP!

  • Blixum - 2012-08-31 09:08

    The police agreed to use rubber bullets once the criminals start using rubber pangas, spears and knives.

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