NG church will be asked to accept gays

2013-02-14 11:47

Johannesburg - The general synod of the Dutch Reformed Church will be asked by its Western Cape moderator to consider accepting homosexual relationships and pastors, Beeld reported on Thursday.

Western Cape moderator Dr Frits Gaum said the proposals were the collective plea of 26 church parishioners, among them Gaum's own son, Laurie.

The issue was "a very divisive one in churches all over the world", but the general synod should consider the request "in a sober, scripture-guided manner", Gaum said.

In the proposal, the 26 request that a significant section of church policy, announced in 2007, should remain unchanged. This included the decision that only the union between a man and a woman could be regarded as a marriage.

However, the 2007 policy also states the church will not accept homosexual relationships as an alternative to marriage.

The new proposal asks the general synod to accept there could be a permanent and unique relationship between two people of the same sex.

In 2007, the church also ruled that gays could become pastors, on condition they led celibate lives. Gaum said he would ask the church to drop the celibacy clause.

  • hein.wyk - 2013-02-14 12:04

    Can of worms!!!

      wally.williams.148 - 2013-02-15 08:08

      Actually not. Follow the Word and not the world or emotions. Trust God and know that Christ paid the ultimate price for our salvation. We cannot throw that back into His face. We cannot dictate to God.

  • morne.els - 2013-02-14 12:12

    Who cares what the NG Kerk decides.

  • morne.els - 2013-02-14 12:13

    Who cares what the NG Kerk decides.

  • musamoyo2004 - 2013-02-14 12:30

    These gauys belong in shebeens not church

  • Joe FS ZA - 2013-02-14 12:43

    Read the Bible and learn what it says about gays. Stop forcing churches to follow the heathen ways of life.

      Gareth - 2013-02-14 21:54

      @DelusionBuster Dont forget Deuteronomy 22:13 - 21 If a man weds a woman and she is found to not be a virgin, she must go back to her parents house and be stoned to death by the town. So do you actually have to arrange a date and time for this or does it just spontaneously happen?

      Jacques Slabbert - 2015-07-02 07:38

      And you have a healthy way of life. IDIOTIC! You need to get people to church and not push them away! (even just to get their weekly money contributions!!) YOU are also breaking one of the ten commandments my friend (go and read it and try and understand what I am saying) GAYS don't need the NG Church - the NG Church needs them. Maybe, just maybe the NG Church will then stop running on dry. NG is just a bloody name - there are many other environments that still practive the true meaning of rendering a christian service. So before you throw the BOOK before us at least read the 50 other scriptures pointing a DIRECT finger at your current lifestyle .... or are you walking around with little white wings and a halo???? If you do HUISGENOOT pays a lot for stories like that. READ THE BIBLE AND LEARN WHAT IT SAYS ABOUT JUDGING AND TAKING OUT THE TREE FROM YOUR OWN EYE FIRST.

  • david.maree.92 - 2013-02-14 12:47

    So they want a gay person leading the church. Dont think i will go to that church.

      Jacques Slabbert - 2015-07-02 07:40

      Your choice ... stay away then.

  • karabo.pooe.50 - 2013-02-14 12:51

    We all equal irrespective of different churches we attend. I still say no to homophobia.

  • dmarinheiro - 2013-02-14 13:05

    I agree Peter... We will keep our churches, and you keep your chosen lifestyle; no contest. Let's not try to "convince" one another. But you should rethink the "narrow minded" BS; lest you be judging them? Besides, they are not "judging" you, are they? They are denying your lifestyle choices.

      polya314 - 2013-02-14 13:43

      Of course they're judging us. They're saying that we will burn in hell if we don't follow their dogma. Also, Christians are not allowed to judge, homosexuals however - have no law that they're to follow to gain the badge of homosexual, i.e. we can judge as much as we like. I do however agree, that there is no point in gays trying to cooperate with churches: I would actively discourage it. Given even the tiniest chance, Christianity will not hesitate to restart its genocide of gay people (as it has throughout history), and thus we should never betray those who have been murdered and brutalised by siding with churches and asking for their 'blessing'.

      Phoenixx - 2013-02-15 04:02

      Oh the choice thingagain. How convenient to be born hetero and make these types of comments.

      wally.williams.148 - 2013-02-15 08:29

      @ polya314: As a Christian I cannot condone such way of life, as with any other form of sin. I have to speak out against it. I am not to hate you as Jesus Himself set the example. Plz understand that condemnation come from hardening your stance against the calls of the Holy Spirit, by continuing to live in sin and act in disobedience to the Word of God. It is God's privilege/duty/authority to condemn, not ppl. However, ppl will judge actions against the Word of God. The Bible is simple and easy to live in sin and you end up in hell. What is difficult to understand about that. You are not forced to believe in the "dogma"; you are not forced to accept Christ. All of these are choices. If you do not accept the truth and consequences for your choices. It is my prayer that you experience the love of God and the passion of Christ for you as a living soul. Remember, it is a choice and a way of life.

      andreas.meyer.12327 - 2013-02-15 13:01

      What gives people the idea that Christians aren't "allowed to judge" (as opposed to condemn), while non-Christians are? Funny how it is always the non-Christian that exactly know what a Christian is allowed to do, what not and how a Christian must be.

      polya314 - 2013-02-15 21:24

      @Andreas Have you read your own book? Did you read the cutesy NLT translation, perhaps?

  • Lana Van Der Berg - 2013-02-14 13:41

    For the people who is quoting scripture, please read the rest of the passage, because it talks about pork and shellfish too! So next you enjoy Steers ribs or John Dory's prawns remember you're going to hell too! #justsaying

  • polya314 - 2013-02-14 13:49

    As homosexuals, we need to stop seeking approval from the heteronormative society - we need to stop demanding that we're included. We need to find an identity that is separate and fulfilling: that is uniquely queer. Who cares what Christians have to say? We neither want nor need their approval, and this extends to all groups that seek to oppress us again. I say, we need to create our own worldview - one which from which heteronormative society can feel excluded from.

      zwartsj - 2013-02-14 15:14

      Yes you go and do that. Think you will find more people will except who you are once you stop demanding to be included in everything in life.

      frankflower - 2013-02-14 15:25

      The word is 'accept' and not 'except' if you had half a brain, you would know that.

      polya314 - 2013-02-15 00:44

      Zwart, you should learn how to embrace your fellow beings; appreciate and celebrate the wondrous gift of diversity. So, if you do that, maybe more people will accept YOU...?

      Phoenixx - 2013-02-15 04:03

      Unfortunately more gay people percentage wise identify as Christian in the western world than heteosexuals. How very sad is that.

      polya314 - 2013-02-15 12:21

      Indeed Phoenix, that's very disheartening to hear.

      andreas.meyer.12327 - 2013-02-15 13:05

      That's exactly what this exercise is about; "Gay marriage", churches having to be accepting of homosexuality, homosexuals adopting children: This all has just one goal and that's to make homosexuality socially acceptable and normative.

      Marius Heath-Hartley - 2013-02-27 11:26

      Streaigh people must stop discriminating agains us gays There are so many straight guys that want sex with a man so what do they realy want woman or man. Stop with this and get your own life together. We are not filphy we are clean more than straight people are We have class and we are proud of it.

  • Johnson - 2013-02-14 20:29

    If gay rights are so important to gay's - then the rights of people who are prostitutes, or any other form of sexual connotation could pose the same argument. Where do you want to stop - with people having sex with animals - surely they will also want their freedom of association to be recognised by religion. Having said that - there is the word of God - after all it is his church - and he reserves the right to judge. I am not going judge gay's - all I am thinking is if this is today what will be tomorrow. For some people gay is perverse like sex with animals may be perverse for gays. Animal sex lovers will fight for their rights. As every human you have Gods given right to choose between right and wrong - its totally up to you and even if we disagree that should also be respected.

      hengu.willemse - 2013-02-14 21:33

      regtig... ek hoop nie jy wend dieselfde logika aan as jy op openbare paaie bestuur nie.

      hengu.willemse - 2013-02-14 21:38

      oo ek sien jy't 'n foto van 'n nazi vliegtuig op jou FB cover page... jou belangstellingsveld verduidelik jou eng en verkrampte opvatting oor die lewe

      Johnson - 2013-02-14 21:46

      Actually Hengu - just tired of people trying to push their penis down my trout. You are probably gay and that is your right - I disagree and that is my right. If you never stood for anything you would never have any people disagree with you - I really don't care what you say - point is this is not going to stop at gay rights - what is next. Evolution and they also don't believe in God but their rights are already forced down our trough in schools and varsities.

      Gareth - 2013-02-14 22:08

      Actually Johnson evolution is a fact and it is taught in schools because they have evidence for it and it is the best theory for the ascent of man. If you have another theory that isnt based on two thousand year old goat herders myths and superstitions I am sure they would consider it. If it could be proven and has evidence, of course. And you say evolutionists dont believe in a god? Really? And what if evolution is the mechanism a god used to create man? What then? Which version of the creation in Genesis do you believe then? The first or the second account? And I am sure not many people have actually tried to force their penis down your "trout"(sic). That is a very unfortunate fish indeed though if it has actually happened before :)

      andreas.meyer.12327 - 2013-02-15 13:07

      Hey hengu, I'd prefer a National Socialist pilot over someone that thinks it's OK to push his sexual organs into a boy's body cavities any time!

      hengu.willemse - 2013-02-16 13:43

      wel andreas.meyer goed vir jou as jy verkies om jou tyd met moordlustige, onverdraagsame en egoistiese haters van vrydenkende mense deur te bring, gelukkig is dit jou tyd nie myne nie :P daarteenoor glo en respekteer ek dat alle mense gelyk is, en probeer ek nie om ander mense te verkleineer en hul basiese menswaardigheid en reg op dieselfde geluk as wat jy geniet af te breek nie.

  • jordan.dutoit - 2013-02-14 22:32

    why not ask the Church to allow murder and stealing while they are at it. it is a sin and asking a Church to override or ignore a sin is foolish and beyond senseless. this is the same as asking police to allow murder .

      polya314 - 2013-02-14 23:36

      And we are actually told that we want moral approval from people like you? Ha!

      Phoenixx - 2013-02-15 04:06

      Note to self: stop eating prawns. It offends Jordan.

      andreas.meyer.12327 - 2013-02-15 13:08

      No, Pulya, nobody tells you. It's just that some "gay" activists deem it kind of useful to make others accepting them.

      polya314 - 2013-02-16 09:04

      We're told precisely that, Andreas. We're told we're abominations, perverse and unnatural: as if people were discussing the weather. Indeed, gay activists have pursued the approval of sycophants such as you - but that is neither here nor there. That is an internal matter, and you have no right to comment on a 2000 (minimum) year struggle for freedom enough, to be ourselves. And yet we're still told by society that we must have approval from the so-called moral majority, and that I shall not abide and find laughable.

  • Johnson - 2013-02-15 05:42

    gareth.ludeman - sorry to burst your bubble, Evolution is a theory for suckers who do not understand science. They will make you believe your forefathers were apes - it it took million and millions of years. Carbon dating on the other hand is circular thinking - go and do some proper research

      gareth.ludeman - 2013-02-15 09:29

      @Johnson Well clearly you do not understand what a scientific theory is. A scientific theory explains how something happens. For intance the theory of planetary motion describes the movement of the planets. It basically explains how observed events happen. In other words, evolution is an observed event and the theory of evolution explains how it happens the best it can with the available knowledge. I think you have to do your research a little better, you seem to have very little understanding of what evolution actually is. Who mentioned carbon dating? It is only reliable up to a certain age, after that there are literally dozens of other dating methods that can date back hundreds of millions of years. And evolutionary theory IS science, intelligent design or Genesis accounts are purely fairy tales and myths. Go to if you really want to try and learn a little more before making a fool of yourself again Enjoy :)

      andreas.meyer.12327 - 2013-02-15 13:12

      No Gareth, Evolution or rather what is intended to say with this term IS NOT an observed event. It's an assumed event extrapolated from variation that exists within species. One ought to be up to date with science to say anything meaningful. Needless to say you are rather weak on the rest as well.

      gareth.ludeman - 2013-02-15 15:01

      Really andreas? Why dont you prove it to me then? Of course evolution is an observed event, but it is not my problem to educate you on that. Go look it up for yourself. The website I recommended above should help you there. Tell me what else you think I am weak on here. If you mean the dating techniques, I know you are wrong and talking BS. If you think intelligent design or the Genesis account you are wrong and talking more BS. I think you just have no idea what you are talking about and are some kind of religous apologist. So, yeah, good luck with that

      gareth.ludeman - 2013-02-15 15:03

      And andreas, if it isnt observed explain the Russian experiments with snow foxes. Explain Darwins birds and the changes in their beaks. Explain how viruses change year by year to fight the medicine we use to combat them. All great examples of evolution in action and observed by scientists. If you cannot accept this fact then you clearly do not know much about it at all

  • Johnson - 2013-02-15 06:19

    Matthew 19:1-8 — Did Jesus say anything about homosexuality? Of course, when asked about marriage, Jesus issued a sweeping condemnation of all sexual relationships outside of the male/female model established in Gen 1:27, which he specifically cited. Romans 1:18-32 —Though most of the passages deal with the male perspective, for the first time there is a specific mention of female homosexuality. And as the verdict comes in, we discover it too is a depraved condition brought on by a sinful nature. 1Cor 6:9-11—The only passage of scripture that clearly acknowledges former (ex) homosexuals in the church. They are listed along with other ex-sinners who have been changed by the power of Christ. It is certain that Pastor Paul knew there were former homosexuals in his local church and he celebrated their freedom in Christ Jesus. With a completely different tone in comparison to the volume of harsh, negative reaction to the unrepentant homosexuality, scripture here ends with the tremendous hope and goodness of God.

  • Johnson - 2013-02-15 06:20

    Jude 1:4,7,19 — Jude forcefully revealed that like the Sodomites, certain men in the church had gone after “strange flesh.” I believed Jude was describing contemporary "gay christians". His choice of phraseology is a combination of two words: heteros and sarx meaning “another flesh with the same quality.” His inclusion of the word flesh pointed to the homosexuality (not the inhospitality) of the Sodomites. Similar to the Apostle Paul, Jude selected strong language to convey the serious of the charge facing the church. Allowing unrepentant homosexuals into Christian fellowship without applying the same standards of admission applied to other sinners would be a spiritual death nell for the church. Repentance is the major action a sinner must take to be accepted into the family of God. Rev 21:27—The final book of the Bible, finalizing a complete picture stunning denouncements of all forms of homosexual conduct. From Genesis to Revelation, the Word of God firmly establishes once and for all the sinfulness of homosexuality, but also provides a wide opportunity for repentance and redemption through Jesus Christ. Homosexuality, as seen through the eyes of scripture is a spiritual aberration, a result of the fallen nature of man, a disease of the soul. It produces nothing life giving, in essence opposite of the nature of God who is life. Therefore it “worketh” or produces abomination which is death.

  • wally.williams.148 - 2013-02-15 07:50

    Ppl plz ustand that the Word of God is inspired by God. I believe it...u know about it and more...u hv no excuse then. But, u do hv a choice. No one is forcing anyone 2 accept Christ or 2 love the Living Almighty God. That remains ur choice. However, if u do, it is a way of life and the Word stands forever true. We cannot change it the way it suits us - then we are turning His Message into a man's book of convenience. Plz do nt confuse God's judgement with our duty 2 speak out against sin and injustice and what is wrong in the eyes of God. This specific issue is a thorny 1 and the church has a duty 2 NOT conform 2 the world. The church is nt 2 b politically correct but pure before God. I will b first 2 say that no matter ur orientation or lifestyle the door of the church shld NEVER b shut in ur face. However, u need 2 b aware that u will b confronted by the Word and the Holy Spirit regarding ur lifestyle. The Word gives clear details about how 2 address ppl who sin. If u do nt want 2 accept the Word of God and do nt want 2 live according to His standards that is ur choice...Sexual immorality is an abomination before God. Jesus did nt chase away the prostitute, but He did tell her 2 go and sin NO MORE. There r reasons 4 ppl 2 end up in this way of life; God sets free if u allow Him. He refreshes;cleanses. God is not just righteous but also just. Beware, His judgement will b fierce. A fairy-tale u say? God will never allow ppl 2 mock Him. Many tried and paid the price.

  • luna.moon.5243817 - 2013-02-15 07:58

    The NG church is bending over backward to get more people in the church (and fill the coffers). They seem to have forgotten Sodom and Gamora.

  • ray.crawly - 2013-02-17 13:28

    WHAT?! Bring me the first stone. No more of this spineless New Age junk that has infiltrated the Body. The lord revealed to me that the modern day flock are nothing but weak, genetically inferior sheep. The odd sheep is still OK but the majority have genetic defects. In the spiritual realm this can be likened to: 1. no production of wool; 2. limping; 3. toothless, therefore cannot feed optimally and are under-nourished; 4. have cataracts which impair vision; 5. lower limbs are 50% shorter than normal sheep's, representing lack of prosperity. IT'S ALL ABOUT PROSPERITY You have not because you can't talk/eat properly - you don't have teeth (see point 3 above) You loose your possessions to Old Slewfoot because you cannot protect your possessions (point 2) You cannot run away when evil approaches (point 5) You cannot protect yourself against the onslaught of the devil (point 1) You can't get a proper mate (inability to distinguish MALE and FEMALE) because of poor eyesight (point 4). All revealed in the spirit!!!!!!!!! Now, let anyone who has feelings toward a person from the same gender be brought to me and I will lay holy hands on him/her. And I assure you, I will drive that foul satan and his stinking demons from this person and cast them back from where they come! REVERSE TITHING is the only acceptable punishment for this foul sin. That is, you give 90% and keep 10% of gross monthly income. PROSPERITY = YOUR CHOICE GLORY! Pastor Ray.

  • veronica.malakoane - 2013-02-18 11:18

    Leviticus 18 verse 22.... You shall not lie with a male as with a woman. It is an abomination. 23 Nor shall you mate with any animal, to defile yourself with it. Nor shall any woman stand before an animal to mate with it. It is perversion"

  • Wilhelm Els - 2015-01-13 11:13

    The stand re the homosexual question, gives you quite a good indication of who is part of the dride of Christ and who not....the bride will never condone sin, no matter what the nature of the sin is.

  • Irfaan Hilberg - 2015-01-13 12:48

    If u die in sin, u go hell...right??? So if jesus took in the every ones sins, he goes to hell....right????

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