No rapture - just a huge hotel bill

2011-05-23 08:53

Johannesburg - A large hotel bill is awaiting a group of South Africans who believed the end of the world would arrive on Saturday.

Johannes Coetzee, who crossed the country spreading the word that the apocalypse was coming at sunset on Saturday, was still staying in the Devonshire Hotel in Braamfontein, Johannesburg on Sunday afternoon along with 80 of his followers.

When reporters visited the hotel, Coetzee refused to talk to anyone. He also didn’t answer his cellphone and didn’t respond to messages.

Coetzee and his group were followers of the American TV evangelist Harold Camping who announced that the world would be shaken on Saturday by powerful earthquakes, after which the “good people” would be taken away.


According to the 89-year-old and his Family Radio station, the rest of humanity would have hell on earth until October 21 when the world would finally come to an end.

AFP reported that Camping had calculated the end like this: He began with the big flood in 4990 BC and then added 7 000 years because God said in the Bible one day was like a thousand years and then subtracted a year due to an error during the switch from the Old Testament’s calendar to the New Testament’s calendar.

Camping had also announced the end of the world in a prophecy in 1994.

Camping could also not be found on Sunday.

Reuters reported that the curtains of his house were pulled shut and no one opened the door.

Coetzee and his followers booked into the hotel on Friday.

According to Shaun O’Reilly of the hotel’s HR department, the group had booked 50 rooms and had not let hotel management know when they were planning to vacate them.

They would owe the hotel thousands of rands.

A single room (without meals) at the hotel costs R689 and a double room costs R1 178.


On Coetzee’s Facebook profile on Sunday there were many messages from people sympathising with him, but also from those poking fun at him.

"Johannes, you can come out of your hiding place now, the danger is gone,” said Daan Prinsloo.

Jan Viljoen said: “Johannes, talk to Facebook. We would like to hear from you.”

Even ANC Youth League president Julius Malema had something to say to Sapa on Friday: “I can’t see that with all the power that we got today, we are going to lose it on Saturday.”

Twitter was also abuzz with jokes.

  • Ntebo More - 2011-05-23 09:01

    Are you kidding me? did they think if the world was going to an end the Hotel was still going to stand? do we have people like that in SA? GOD help them

      lenand40 - 2011-05-23 09:10

      They could have gone out in style in a 5 star hotel. They do aim too low in my view

      Luckybugger - 2011-05-23 09:11

      No I guess they figured they won't have to fit the bill and go out in style.

      paulf - 2011-05-23 09:18

      Shows you how much they really know the Bible LOL. God says no man will know the time , day or the hour as in Revelation.

      wattalotokak - 2011-05-23 09:20

      "The world would be shaken on Saturday by powerful earthquakes, after which the “good people” would be taken away." WHAT???? You mean the good people would have had to stay to feel the earthquakes and THEN be raptured??? What a bunch of HOGWASH...!

      Rolie - 2011-05-23 09:23


      Matt - 2011-05-23 09:31

      @ ANCBlackAngel - weren't you the chap who said you had to vote ANC because the ancestors were telling you to vote, after a tremor in the East Rand?

      yttocs69 - 2011-05-23 09:31

      Morning everyone.....Its Monday and were all back at work......LOL

      chat-chat - 2011-05-23 09:43

      I think they were probably praying to ensure that they were part of the group of "good people" who were going to be taken away in the "rapture" and not left behind with the bunch who were going to suffer until October. Lucky for them, they didn't choose a 5-star - imagine the bill then!!!

      Engineer - 2011-05-23 10:02

      What makes me laugh, is that these guys, attempting a decent freeloading exercise, could consider themselves as "good people"

      OuWitBooi - 2011-05-23 10:12

      I have made a very careful study of the bible in this regard, and what I have worked out is that the rapture was predicted to take place on the night of 17th September 1630. And indeed this did happen. It is not well documented int the generally available history books, but because of my privileged position in a secret society which I may not name, I have documentary proof that it did happen on that night. Also the bible makes it clear that there is only one rapture and the bad guys who are left behind will be on earth for another 1000 years to suffer. So guys and girls, just accept that we are the bad guys and we have to stick it out in the hell-on-earth until 2630.

      James - 2011-05-23 10:16

      @ANCBlackAngel ..... and YOU think you are going to heaven ??? .... bricks under your bed, and chatting to your ancestors ..... HA HA HA .... and then YOU want to point a finger ...... ^%$@@#$%& funny!!!

      Darryll - 2011-05-23 10:23

      @ANCBlackangel - i actually think they were ANC supporters as JZ said no-one can get into heaven if they do not vote ANC. Such gullible people people in this world. There is no difference between these guys and the millions who voted for the ANC - all false promises to make the fatcats at the top fatter.

      mufasa - 2011-05-23 10:25

      @ ouwitbooi wat te f rook jy tjom? gee vir my ook asb, dan vlieg ons saam na die kamstige hemel!

      gabba_gabba - 2011-05-23 10:27

      @OuWitBooi. I think you have been hitting the sacremental wine a little too hard their buddy... The only hell on Earth is the one that humanity has made for itself!

      Matt - 2011-05-23 10:33

      @ OuWitBooi - would that secret society be linked to the Freemasons/Masonry by any chance? If so, get out of it, the society worships Satan - when you get to the 33rd Degree you'll be told your society follows the Luciferian doctrine. Oh, and any society that is remotely Christian would NEVER be secret. The Word is free for all to read if they want to, and one should read it and form their own understanding, not have some guru to tell them waht to believe.

      Ingie - 2011-05-23 10:40

      Yes the ANC

      Rugdusty - 2011-05-23 11:58

      @ Ouwitbooi ... WAAAAAAAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHA comment of the century , "I am part of a secret society" ... please keep it that way , and don't put your drivel up here ... hahaha

      Squeeze - 2011-05-23 12:15

      Paulf. What are you on about. You said a few weeks back that you agreed with the specific date, you even tried to back up your statements with internet links. So please make a decition and stick to it.

      RiRo1 - 2011-05-23 13:16

      @OuWitBooi LOL I hope you were making a sarcastic joke... Otherwise you are just WEIRD...

      Shadoz - 2011-05-23 13:29

      I really hate it when people comment on a issue then some pricks have it deleted cause THEY dnt like the comment. I would also like an unedited forum please..

      OuWitBooi - 2011-05-23 13:56

      @RiRo1 - correct on the first count. After all the stress of blogging about the election I thought that this funny topic of zealots running up bills with no intention of paying them was a good place to relax and have some fun. But judging from the ratio of thumbs down to thumbs up that I have got (33 down to 15 up at present) it seems that the majority of people did not get my message. I suppose this is just like politics - the majority got it wrong on 18 May as well. Hopefully now that I have explained what I was doing, the majority will be with me. And if Helen keeps explaining (and now demonstrating) the basic politics of service delivery to the people the majority will come around there as well. I am always an optimist.

      Matt - 2011-05-23 14:04

      @ OuWitBooi - thumbs up or down, that's not important - as long as what one says is the truth. Sometimes, someone can san say something that is purely an undisputed fact with no room for opinion or interpretation, and people will still give thumbs down. Weird...

      RiRo1 - 2011-05-23 14:25

      @OuWitBooi Cool :-D I get it. I do believe that with the mentality of the believers of Saturday, more fun is better than no fun at all! Enjoy!

      claire johnson - 2011-05-23 15:21

      They didnt think the hotel would stand!!!! They wanted to enjoy themselves before the end......

      mongi.mekgwe - 2011-05-23 15:42

      just fullfiling what the bible said false prophets Matthew 24

      mabsie - 2011-05-23 16:59

      Hey Rolie - from your lips to His ears!!!! Lol.....

      hey-mr-wat-u - 2011-05-24 09:04

      hahaha judging by the replies to ouwitboi there are more fools in SA than just the ruptured rapturers Life - get some

      African'shtr - 2011-05-24 09:51

      what were you experting from a boer

      LGVS - 2011-05-24 11:04

      @ witbooi. How is life in the mason fraternity?

      schmerz - 2011-05-24 12:26

      @African'shtr, hard-working and able reliable resourceful integrity n Boer maak n plan. And btw I will never accept that 'boer' is seen as an insult. In a black african language (ibhunu?) it would be an insult

      ex-pat - 2011-05-24 13:13

      Strewth, the IQ level of the negative comments to witbooi must be in single figures! Didn't any of you get the humour???

  • Vaal Donkie - 2011-05-23 09:04

    That's what happens when you listen to the gospel of Mammon.

      MaanDonkie - 2011-05-23 12:31

      Apparently the great rapture did not occur because the tender was awarded to the ANC. Poor service delivery again!

      vambozha mutemi - 2011-05-23 14:57

      they bought range rovers with the money for the project...they could only afford to do the small tremor in eastrand instead of destroying the whole world...

      Matt - 2011-05-23 16:00

      @ Vambozha - do you understand what happened last week? There was a tremor in the East Rand, reported it and people were worried!!! I live near Germiston and we have these tremors regularly - I think there was one by us on Friday morning... that one wasn't in the news. News24's election fever perhaps?

      Matt - 2011-05-23 16:02

      Yeah the tender for the rapture went to Zuma's son, who promptly spent all the money on sushi, BMWs and sunglasses, and as a result 10 million citizens now crap in buckets... but the ones in Viljoenskraal were fixed so that's OK then :-)

  • wehan.victor - 2011-05-23 09:05


      Maryna123 - 2011-05-23 09:57


      Vela Stardust - 2011-05-23 13:59

      Bwahahahahahahah ! Hello everyone.

  • daaivark - 2011-05-23 09:05

    Stupid hotel should have asked for payment in advance as these guys clearly thought the end would come and they would have had free accommodation till then, Silly oversight on the part of the hotel.

      Mr Mike - 2011-05-23 12:06

      They should have gone "CAMPING" instead ;-)

      Lim The Black - 2011-05-23 12:13

      yeah, 50 guys wanna book the weekend and they don't tell you what kinda gathering they doing?

      ex-pat - 2011-05-24 13:18

      Who says the hotel didn't ask for payment up front? Just because News24 didn't mention it doesn't mean it didn't happen! Many accommodation providers (I managed a place until last year so I know) ask for a deposit to secure the booking and the balance a few weeks (varies) before arrival. So if someone cancels at the last minute you're not stuck with unpaid-for rooms you could have sold to other guests. We had a policy of refunding last-minute cancellations only if we were able to re-book the rooms. As these guys didn't say how long they would be staying (IF News24 has it right), they will have to cough up quickly for the extra nights or be tossed out. ;-)

  • Barry - 2011-05-23 09:06

    These people are so stupid ....and they really believed it. Gosh

  • Spoofed - 2011-05-23 09:06

    What i find hilarious is that by Sunday that old man was a multi millionaire from all the 'donations' he received. He never asked for donations but people sent them anyway so legally he does not have to refund them.. pretty darn clever if you ask me....

      Matt - 2011-05-23 09:38

      That's shocking... also the article doesn't say who these people are or what they believed in, but if they were in any way Christian, I don't understand why they'd go to a 5-star hotel to celebrate - the Bible doesn't like extravagance... Anyway, it's Monday and I'm back at work - and I'm also gutted after the weekend. Not because the rapture didn't come, but because poor Blackpool got relegated from the Premier League and 2 clubs I dislike, Wigan and Blackburn, scraped to safety...

      GT - 2011-05-23 10:58

      Why send money if the world is ending?

      Goose - 2011-05-23 11:03

      lol, how ever, I'll give it about a week before the law suits begin to flow in!!!

      Matt - 2011-05-23 11:54

      @ Goose - if Mr Camping were a proper American, he'd have a disclaimer on his site... "me saying the world will end does not necessarily mean it will, so we will not be held liable for you believing me in the first place"

      Spoofed - 2011-05-23 15:41

      @Goose some guy asked him in a phone interview if he was going to refund the people who sent him money and he said'' i never asked anybody for money, what people do with their money is their business'' think the old fart had this all planned before he started preaching with his bible under his arm... Again i say..Pretty darn clever...

      ex-pat - 2011-05-24 13:21

      What a marvellous example of Xianity he is, to be sure! As for those idiots who sent him donations, one can but wonder what "on earth" they thought he would do with them? ;-) A fool and his money are soon parted...

  • clifford peter viljoen - 2011-05-23 09:07

    And here i thought that only the Americans were gullible to such nonsense .

      ex-pat - 2011-05-24 13:24

      The ANC is running SA into the ground but there are millions of non-supporters who still believe it will all come right in the end. So, no, I believe SA is full of gullible people... or should I more kindly say, people who desperately hope they're right.

  • rushi.nortje - 2011-05-23 09:07

    And so, once again stupid peoplelike them make christians look like fools.... People read your Bibles, In it stand that not a soul will know when the world comes to an end... So live everyday like your last ....... Unbelievable!

      mbube - 2011-05-23 11:16

      Yes, because believing a virgin gave birth and a bunch of zombies rising from the dead is much less foolish.

      Mswati - 2011-05-23 11:20

      But they are the worst fools believing in fairy tales

      Matt - 2011-05-23 11:25

      @ Mbube, Mswati - hmm so what would be the alternative then? Please tell us, and give us scientific proof so that we can't accuse you of telling fairytales as well... Here's an example of one of our fairytales... and this proof comes from atheists...

      JohnnyWotten - 2011-05-23 12:03

      What use would scientific proof be to you, Matt? We've provided scientific proof of evolution and you still don't believe it. And why should an athiests theory be held to a higher standard of accountability than your religious belief?

      mbube - 2011-05-23 12:07

      @Matt: There is only one problem with your link. The Exodus never occurred. All Israeli archeology in the area over decades of work have confirmed this.

      NuttyZA - 2011-05-23 12:17

      Matt... I don't think that research came from atheists (as you put it) because that is something only Christians would try and validate... Besides from that, the article states "it MAY actually have happened" and "a powerful east wind, blowing for 12 hours overnight, COULD have driven back shallow waters" and "likely location of the 'miracle' was not the Red Sea, but a nearby spot in the Nile Delta region " So, we have a could've of and may have, a wind parting the water and not a god or a Moses and a completely different location!!!! Not very convincing "evidence" to support your bioblical claim!

      Matt - 2011-05-23 12:23

      @ JohnnyWotten - er, proof of evolution? I must have missed something because all the proof thusfar has been proven wrong or outright fraudulent. Besides, which evolution are you referring to? Kind producing a variation of a kind does happen, but kind producing another kind is a fairytale and still not proven. Least of all that nothing exploded 20 billion years ago and here we are, with great-grandpa Rocky and papa Monkey.

      Matt - 2011-05-23 12:26

      @ Mbube - half a chromosome difference? Gee, you make out as if it's so close... you do know we are genetically more similar to a Panado tablet, but nobody is saying that Bayer Industries is the Creator... you do know that if ape and man were 99.2% different, that 0.8% difference equates to 44.8 million nucleotides, and removing or altering just 2 would be fatal? So your suggestion entails that apes had to die 22.4 million times to become human. La la la... besides, apes are around 90% similar to humans these days, 99.2% is the way outdated figure still used...

      Matt - 2011-05-23 12:31

      @ NuttyZA - maybe not 100% proof indeed that it happened. But here are secular scientists showing that it definitely is possible. (if they were not secular, they would not suggest mother nature and they would be running down the streets proclaiming God to be 100% provable). Also, so far there is no proof or theory suggesting this is nonsense. Whereas with the atheistic view on the existence and evolution of everything, oh there's plenty of counter-proof :-) but usually the solution to counter-proof is to just add a few million years more to the original idea to make it seem more possible. Take time away from the theories and you have fairytales that would blow the Bible out of the water. Somehow our brains cannot cope with the numbers quoted, which distract us from what's really being theorised...

      mbube - 2011-05-23 12:36

      @Matt: Even is what you are saying is true(which is not). You are still the one believing in virgin births and zombies. Stop with your red herrings it is getting annoying.

      Matt - 2011-05-23 12:52

      @ Mbube - so let's agree to disagree. I believe God is real, created everything, sent His only begotten Son to die for our sins, that we may join Him in heaven, and one day there will be a rapture but nobody knows when so don't book any hotels - and you believe that man is God and we can do whatever we like if it feels good, nothing exploded and here we are, grandpa was a rock and you came from a monkey (even if genetics suggest otherwise, that's your belief). And after disagreeing and moving on, we can both agree that the dude in America who predicted the end of the world on Saturday is a silly old fool, and get back to complaining about the ANC :-)

      mbube - 2011-05-23 13:18

      @Matt, where did I say I believe any of those things? Stop putting words in my mouth you are only making yourself look more foolish(if that is possible).

      NuttyZA - 2011-05-23 13:18

      lol Matt, in that one post, you just demonstrated that you no nothing about the Big Bang Theory, Evolutionary Theory and Atheists but I do sense I would be completely wasting my time even bothering to try and explain any of it to you, you are obviously far too closed minded! You are right about one thing tho... Nothing Exploded because according to the Big Bang Theory (which actually was first Hypothesised by George Lemaitre, a Priest and a person who very much believed in a god), there never was any explosion!!!

      Matt - 2011-05-23 13:41

      @ Mbume, NuttyZA - I've lost count the amount of times I've been told that. Thing is, I do understand both theories (remember - THEORIES) but I just don't resort to using the fancy names that believers of the theory hide behind. Generally the rule is, clever people use simple words to explain something and not-so-clever people use fancy words to appear clever :-) Now, whether I say a dot exploded or an infintesimal region or nebula expanded, it's the same principle - nothing exploded and here we are. @ Mbume - not putting words into your mouth at all. Simply read the Big Bang and Evolution theories again. But just as an exercise, remove "millions/billions of years" and re-read it. Trust me ;-)

      Matt - 2011-05-23 13:50

      @ NuttyZA - oh, and I used to be an atheist, I was "open minded" and it got me nowhere in life. I also got the evolution/Big Bang stuff in Europe, I also believed it, but now I know better. if I were closed-minded as you suggested, I'd never have changed my opinions to which I now stick... although, is a closed mind such a bad thing? Regardless of which side we're on, better someone fighting for a side than for someone to not choose - win or lose, the one who doesn't take sides or supports both is always the first one dead on the battlefield. Besides, regardless of the topic of debate - note that one side here is trying to explain their point of view in earnest, and the other side here is saying "explaining it to you would be a waste of time". Gee, it almost makes me want to become an atheist again... NOT!

      FutureSA - 2011-05-23 14:05

      After investigating all these gods I quite liked Venus and Hercules but somebody down the line decided that they should become mythological instead. Shame for all the people who believed in them. But then I feel even more sympathy fall all the poor Egyptians who for more than 3,500 years believed in a multitude of gods all of whom its now been decided are mythological. Now one of the Egyptian goddesses (or should that nowadays be godrons like waitrons?) that I could follow is ISIS! Wow, she was something special... "Isis (Aset)was worshipped as the ideal mother and wife as well as the matron of nature and magic. She was the friend of sinners, slaves, artisans, and all downtrodden, she listened to the prayers of the wealthy, maidens, aristocrats, and even rulers. She was the goddess of motherhood, magic and fertility." Somehow Isis sounds so much more pleasant than a our latest judgemental God that's been cooked up. Let's bring ISIS back instead, with all those qualities she's bound to do a better job. And it seems that Jesus read her notebook.

      Ryan - 2011-05-23 14:26

      WOW Matt, Just...WOW!!! The "just a theory" part was my favorite. OK, not everyone is expected to understand concepts like evolution but at least look up the definition of a "scientific" theory (as in the theory of gravity) BTW, it seems that the word has not gone out to all the universities around the world as all zoology and biology degree courses are still underpined by the theory of evolution.

      LBS - 2011-05-23 15:00

      Well done Matt!!!! I so wish Zebby and Donald and Xram and their likes can challenge you. I am tired of trying to get through to them in my "simple" way.

      LBS - 2011-05-23 15:01

      Oh yes, and don't forget about Tooth Fairy. He is another one!

      Matt - 2011-05-23 15:19

      @ Ryan - majority rule does not make something a fact. By that standard, does the majority voting ANC make the ANC great? Here's the thing - it is a theory which as yet cannot be supported by proof. It cannot be reproduced - where have you seen a fish growing legs or a monkey becoming human - it cannot be reproduced. Evolution as a theory would never stand up in a court of law. Imagine - scientist holds up a fossil and says to the judge "this died 100 million years ago and is our ancestor". Yeah right! But still, it's a theory. But many schools, universities; instead of teaching "some believe in intelligent design/creation and some believe in evolution/big bang, here are the viewpoints, proofs, drawbacks, decide for yourself" - they go out-and-out into evolution and punt it as a known fact. And it is STILL a theory. Why do we still call it the THEORY of evolution if it were a known fact? Then such courses even have the cheek to get students to "think critically" while giving the implication in the questions? EG "how do you think the dinosaurs became extinct 65 million years ago?. That is not a question! What would happen if you answered "Well until we finally get a picture of Mokele Mbembe, let's wait and see if they really are extinct"? Er, FAIL. There are plenty examples of creationist students getting failed for just that. Teachers getting fired, students getting failed, even just for questioning the theory without mention of an alternative. That's not education!!!

      Caramel85 - 2011-05-23 15:40

      @Ryan Lets not be pedantic about the use of the word "theory". In common (lay) use it has the meaning of "guess" or "conjecture" or "hypothesis". Yes, in the scientific community it means more than just a guess, such as the theory of gravity, where experimental evidence and observation have been found to confirm a given hypothesis. I would say while evolution has been elevated to this level, it does not deserve to be called a theory in the scientific sense. Mostly because it has no testable claims, its all based on interpretation. In real experimental science, the kind that gives us cell phones and antibiotics etc, you can do experiments to test things in the present. Evolution supposedly happened millions of years ago, where no one was around to observe the processes happening, and all we can do is make guesses about what happened based on what we have today, ie the facts do not speak for themselves. In my studies of the subject I've found really really big problems for evolution, for which there are no answers, such as the origin of the first living cell, and the evolution of sexual reproduction. Really fundamental issues for which no plausable explanation is available within neodarwinian theory. In my opinion as a biologist, evolution is superfluous to biology and adds nothing of value to our understanding of the subject. so why do they still teach evolution? Because the only other option available is that everything was created, and people don't want to believe that.

      Ryan - 2011-05-23 15:55

      Everything in science is "only a theory". Only mathematics deals in proofs. You should know this already but I suspect that you are a POE. Have you never heard of the Dover trail? ...and by your logic a murderer can only be convicted if the murder took place in the courtroom. I suppose you would also like the "stork theory" to be taught along side maternity practice? Might is not Right but if anything it blows your "evolution debunked" theory out the water. Kenneth Miller(a roman cathlic biologist) does a neat job of dissolving myths about evolution in his book Finding Darwins God.

      NuttyZA - 2011-05-23 16:02

      Matt, by the same token then, they teach music THEORY, so really, music is only a theory and I shouldn't believe my ears when listening to songs on the radio!!! Oh and, gravity is a myth too... the Earth just sucks!

      Matt - 2011-05-23 16:09

      @ Caramel85 - that was beautiful! if you're keen :-) @ Ryan "by your logic a murderer can only be convicted if the murder took place in the courtroom." Er, no. You'd be convicted if there was evidence - DNA samples, fingerprints, which prove a perfect match to the defendant, as well as lack of alibi, eye witnesses. Basically, you'd be convicted if the case is beyond reasonable doubt, ie there is demonstratable, reproducable proof. Now, what part of evolution can be proven beyond reasonable doubt to be true? Er... nowt! So, why is it taught as if it were fact? There are even universities overseas that will refuse you to study there if you don't believe in evolution. What does that suggest?! In all fairness, teach kids creation and evolution, both as theories, and let them decide what is the most plausible for themselves - don't indoctrinate them!

      NuttyZA - 2011-05-23 16:32

      I'm sorry Matt but really "In all fairness, teach kids creation and evolution, both as theories, and let them decide what is the most plausible for themselves - don't indoctrinate them!"???? That is very, very rich coming from a Christian... Besides, creationism has NO plausible evidence supporting it whatsoever... you are quite entitled to believe what you like BUT I am afraid from what you have said, you do have very little understanding of evolution (even tho you claim to) and also keep making the mistake of lumping The Big Bang Theory, Abiogenesis and Evolution into one all encompassing belief system that Atheists apparently all adhere to and believe in. I am not an atheist because I "believe" in these things(I could care less one way or the other whether they are true or not), I am an atheist, because I have looked at your religion (and others) and find them to be absolutely mind numbingly ridiculous (but that is another conversation), the point is, creationism should NEVER be taught at schools.. where do you think Pastafarianism came from???

      Ryan - 2011-05-23 16:35

      Evolution does not deal with the origin of life. As a biologist you should know that. That's abiogenisis and although life has now been synthesised in the lab nobody can say where or how life first sprang. You can't really call me padantic for calling someone out who's whole argument seems to rest on the "it only a theory" premiss. @Matt, the proof is in the DNA of all creatures. What do you want to know? Ask a question.

      JohnnyWotten - 2011-05-23 16:47

      "Er, no. You'd be convicted if there was evidence - DNA samples" Dead right, Matt. And it's thanks to that same DNA evidence that we can prove evolution occurred. When you begin to look at the DNA of all living things, you can easily see how life on earth is a massive family tree where an enormous amount of species have branched out from common ancestors. The question is, Matt, what would convince you that evolution is real?

      Matt - 2011-05-23 16:50

      @ NuttyZA - Christians do not indoctrinate. Look at history first, notably how Europe was before the Reformation, and what has entailed since. As for caring or not what is the truth, you obviously do care if you refute the idea of a creation, and there is only one alternative theory, which is... It's simple. Either one believes there IS a God, or there ISN'T. Then, either one believes that everything was created, or everything created itself. To these 2 points, there are only 2 answers. So, one must decide which of each to believe, and then stick to it. As a believer believes God created everything (though some try to combine belief and evolution/big bang, sorry but that's not possible) - an atheist believes there is no God and therefore has no alternative but to believe in big bang/evolution. To deny those ideas mean acknowledging a creator, which they refuse to do. As for lumping evolution (micro which did happen, macro, stellar and chemical), big bang (aka cosmic evolution!) and abiogenesis (aka organic evolution!) together, so? It all goes hand-in-hand. Besides, an evolutionist will have to explain abiogenesis eventually anyway...

      JohnnyWotten - 2011-05-23 17:02

      Actually, Matt, atheists aren't obliged to believe in the Big Bang theory simply because they don't believe in God. It's Christians that have historically filed everything they can't understand under "God did it". People who don't believe in a deity are free to speculate, investigate, question, research and hypothesize and most do. Just because we can't be sure how something happened doesn't mean we should stop trying to figure it out and write it off as something a creature in the sky did.

      NuttyZA - 2011-05-23 17:06

      Matt, that is where christians make the mistake about atheists... they feel because THEY need to believe in something, every one else does... it is not so... I am quite happy to just exist... Yes, I DO accept evolution as a fact (they is far too much evidence to support it - Google Human Chromosone 2 for starters), as to the beginning of the Universe? I am sure the big bang happened and that the universe continues to expand. Was the Big Bang a product of a God? I don't know (no one can) and quite frankly, I do not care!!! There could be a creator (I doubt it) BUT I would bet my (non-existant) soul that it is not the god of the Christian faith!

      Ryan - 2011-05-23 17:17

      @ Matt "Then, either one believes that everything was created, or everything created itself. To these 2 points, there are only 2 answers" Your argument lies on a false dicotomy. Who created god? Did god create himself? Or is there only a further option when it comes to your arguments. Also, if god created himself then who is the one that believes in "something from nothing"? (enter third option supported by no evidence.... now)

      Hume - 2011-05-24 03:37

      Matt you have a misconception as regards atheists. It is not necessary to believe in anything. I, as an atheist simply refuse to believe in anything until irrefutable proof is provided. The theories you speak of above are just that, theories, many intriguing but none-the-less theories. As human knowledge grows some theories are reinforced while others are discarded. The bible and many other religious books offer moral guidance and can be very useful in that regard. Indeed they can bring many people meaning, of which many people search. However one cannot use religious books as means of proving the existence of God, the many religions and Gods are testament to that fact - as which religion or God should be followed. As an atheist we have chosen not to rely on such things to give meaning to our lives, but rather look at how the world exists and are content with that. Simply accept that fact that some people do not require beliefs in order to live fulfilling lives. Respect each person for their beliefs as I will respect your decision to believe in Christianity. Arguing about religion and faith is pointless. Faith requires no proof which cannot be argued against on points of reason or facts.

      NuttyZA - 2011-05-24 06:59

      There you go Matt, Hume, has a totally different outlook and opinion about these things to myself and yet he still classes himself as an Atheist, just proves my point... Atheism isn't a religion or a set of beliefs but reather a rejection of religion and gods

      Kwagga88 - 2011-05-24 07:38

      @Matt Are you a preacher? Because you sound just like and old NG Church oom,

      Matt - 2011-05-24 09:00

      Good morning guys. I see you were busy in my absence, which I expected... You kind of proved my point and I think anyone who can read would have seen it. It's simple. You're atheist. "there is no God". The ONLY alternative is that everything made itself. Big Bang, Evolution, are the ONLY theories that explain how you could opssibly be atheist without looking like retards. If you don't believe on those theories, and that is possible, then what else do you have? "I don't know and I don't care, I just know there is no God". That's just dumb - I'd sooner call you an apathist than an atheist. DNA proof for evolution - you're kidding? So give examples then. Here's my understanding. Animals and humans share a large amount of DNA, this would suggest a common design. A cow has similar DNA yet is different; that's why we can eat beef. If it were maybe 30% similar, if could well be toxic to us. But the difference means that I'm a human and it's a cow. Evolutionists are guilty of taking micro/divergent evolution - meaning that a kind can bring forth after its kind - and then you magically assume the rest is true. (facepalm) - and micro evolution is in the Bible. "Bring forth after their kind". Dog and Wolf are species (canis domesticus, canis lupus), but the same kind (canine). According to what you believe, the canine came from a rock. But you will mock religion to the hilt. The Bible calls that "willingly ignorant" aka "dumb on purpose"...

      Matt - 2011-05-24 09:08

      @ Ryan. Well, the question "where did God come from" is valid and honestly, nobody knows. But this also shows the RELIGIOUS nature of your theories. I believe "in the beginning, God" and I can't say where He came from. You believe "in the beginning, dirt" and you cannot say where the dirt came from. Both are religious. So stop calling Christianity religious and evolution/big-bang "science". Both are religions that require BELIEF. There is still no proof that a monkey can become human and even lesser so that the monkey came from a rock "via via, billions of years". And can I just state to everyone once and for all - I have never even been to AIG ( so will those on the whole page stop saying I get my stuff from there? Thanks. Honestly. Call me closed minded, call me intolerant (I'm not!), but thing is, the SECOND there is an article that vaguely touches on faith, the like of you flock to it like a second to say how stupid religious people are. Your answers to anyone who challenges amounts to "you're dumb". If ever there was a display of intolerance or closed-mindedness, it started with you lot. Honestly! I'd get a more intelligent debate from my 3-year-old boy. "evolution is dumb" (silence) "they believe they came from a rock" (naughty daddy) "they say the Ark wasn't possible without knowing squat (I want to watch Ben10). Really I'd get more intelligence from that. Repeatedly calling someone dumb is NOT an argument, it's stupidity. Sorry!

      Matt - 2011-05-24 09:15

      @ Kwagga88 - no, I'm not a preacher, though I've done sermons before. I'm most definitely not an NG-oom! I just get really fed up when people like the above take an article that's vaguely related to religion and then flock to it en masse to spout their hatred of the concept of religion. Look at how the above post started and tell me where the argument started. It's not just this opst, they do it all the time. There was even an article on ID fraud and the mockers used THAT to tell SA that Christianity is dumb and that there is no God. Their religious zeal is far greater than most Christians, sad to say! And yet they get angry if someone like me tries to answer them. And their intelligence boils down to "we're smart, you're dumb". As yet, I'm still waiting for them to type me an example to prove the self-creation and non-existence of God that is so good, I'd actually want to "see their light". Not even close. Them sticking their fingers in their ears and closing their eye when one types, then replying "you're dumb" shows a lack of intelligence. An example is "I won't even begin to explain evolution because it's wasted on you". Translation: "I'm smart, you're dumb". Or, a denial because if they read their own theory themselves and took away the numbers like I do, they'd realise how stupid it all is - but their hatred of a god-worship blinds their logic. Oh, and had they not started their anti-god BS, I wouldn't have "preached" like I did.

      Matt - 2011-05-24 09:31

      @ Guys... Just another thing. Let's say that I'm a "dumb" Christian and you're "smart" atheists. Now I fully believe the Bible. Now, I've seen posts on other articles before about how dumb believers need to open their eyes and see that there is no God. Suppose I was easily influenced and was willing to consider atheism. When you read your posts, do you honestly believe that what you wrote on this page would encourage anybody, least of all me, to "see the light" and become atheist? You can hide behind "we don't care about you", yet as I said earlier, you flock to any medium you can to tell the world that there is no God, so obviously you DO care. Now read our posts. So far, all I interpret from you is "we're smart, you're dumb". There is no example given that would say to me "wow, there really is no God, a rock really can turn into a human". If anything, all of you - with the exception of Hume who seems respectful and I respect that - have served to reinforce the idea that atheists, humanists, evolutionists, are desperately trying to deny God at the expense of the logic that they claim to have. Even in the face of insults, I will try to explain a question or point. When I ask the same, "I don't understand evolution". Oh, I do. You just don't like to admit it :-) And as a former atheist, I used to be like you - it's not like I'm speaking to an unknown entity outside a closed world. Growing up in liberal Holland, I'm hardly "closed from the world". Do you see my point here?

      JohnnyWotten - 2011-05-24 09:51

      Matt, your contention is that atheists should believe in the Big Bang theory since it is the only plausible explanation outside of creation (which they have rejected)? If that is so, then, due to a complete lack of any evidence of a god (outside of a book written by men and anecdotal, unsubstantiated claims) the Big Bang theory IS the most plausible explanation. I don't believe many people will call you "dumb" for believing in God. There is a possibility, however unlikely, that a god exists. I think people may call you ignorant, though, for your rejection of all the scientific evidence that has been presented, without agenda, to explain the origin of our species. I'm not going to give you a lesson on how DNA substantiates these theories since I don't get paid for it, there are many websites and documentaries that can do the job better than me, and you have shown that you are prepared to reject any evidence that contradicts your belief (note: evidence vs belief) thereby wasting any sincere effort of mine. As long as, unlike these guys that promoted the rapture, your beliefs cause no harm to others, you are free and welcome to believe in anything you like.

      Matt - 2011-05-24 10:28

      @ JohnnyWotten - thanks :-) As you say, as long as nobody gets harmed, we may believe whatever we want to believe! What scientific evidence are you referring to though... all I get is how nobody will give me an explanation for various reasons ;-) from my side, I hold true that micro/divergent evolution IS a fact, anyone doubting that would indeed be dumb, I'm totally with you all. But that's kinds producing kinds. If a black and a white had a baby, the baby can be black, white or coloured - but is still a human being - still the same kind. No disputing that. But that doesn't prove the human came from an ape (macro evolution)... Oh well! I really must look at other articles today :-)

      JohnnyWotten - 2011-05-24 10:43

      Matt, to understand how micro/divergent evolution becomes "macro" evolution you need to look at it outside of the biblical timeframe. I think most religious people battle with this aspect because, due to their general belief that the earth is young (some claim only 6000 years old), they fail to comprehend the enormous scale of time over which evolution has taken place; millions upon millions of years.

      NuttyZA - 2011-05-24 11:06

      Matt, I don't believe anyone here has called you dumb... however, what you do tho, is reject all evidence which is regarded as fact and upon which many principles of physics, chemistry, biology and other sciences are based upon and which we know all mostly work and you replace it with nonsense you have read on creationist websites/books/magazines which have no basis in fact or proof whatsoever BECAUSE they go against (in your mind at least) what you believe. There may well be a creator of the universe, no one can really say, but what we can say is that it is possible to trace the universe back to the "Big Bang" (fsm I hate that term AND before you retute this, we CAN see the beginning of the Universe) and we can ALSO say that there is no need for a god as we can explain life and the existance of the universe in other ways. Your argument seems to be, that the Universe and life could not self create so therefore, there must be a god! Okay, fair enough, let us assume for one minute you are correct! What then makes you so sure that your particular flavour of god is the correct one??? When thousands of other gods have come and gone (and some were around for longer than yours) before yours! There is NO evidence or proof that your god exists. None whatsoever. In fact, their is very little evidence to suggest that Jesus even existed (other than the Gospels). Most of the stories about Jesus appear to be borrowed from other religious personas!

      NuttyZA - 2011-05-24 11:09

      IF you are really interested in seeing PROOF of Evolution, then watch this guys Videos on You Tube... he happens to be a Christian himself (and I doctor if I recall)... I do suspect however, that you won't watch this as it goes against everything you believe!

      Caramel85 - 2011-05-24 12:02

      Dear Ryan, You said "Evolution does not deal with the origin of life. As a biologist you should know that. That's abiogenisis and although life has now been synthesised in the lab nobody can say where or how life first sprang." Its dishonest to say that the origin of life (abiogenesis) has nothing to do with biological evolution. It is really fundamental question for evolution to answer, and I think that saying "its not part of evolution" is a total cop-out simply because it is statistically impossible for life (even the simplest living cell) to originate from non-living chemicals. So naturally evolutionists would want to distance themselves from such an intractable problem. After all, its a bit difficult for evolution to have occurred, if it's impossible to get going in the first place. Furthermore, where are you getting this information that life has been synthesized in the lab from non-living chemicals? Can you provide a reference? I've read of attempts at this but no success. But if (or when) somewhere they are able to successfully assemble a living cell in the lab from its component parts, it wouldn't prove life could originate in a primordial soup without intelligent guidance. It would be an achievement similar to a person who finds a functioning TV set, having never seen one before in their life, and then after taking if apart and figuring out how to put it back together they then declare that now they know for sure that the original TV set made itself.

      flamewulf - 2011-05-25 10:42

      Caramel: Abiogenesis is NOT evolution. It never has and never will be. Evolution is concerned only with the diversity of life - it does not talk about how life started; that is a different field entirely. Evolution is the change in allele frequencies through time.

  • lenand40 - 2011-05-23 09:09

    Shame poor SOBS

  • BigMoose - 2011-05-23 09:10

    Time to leave the hotel and go Camping.

      mpumie - 2011-05-23 09:16

      what about the bills.

      Barry - 2011-05-23 09:34

      @ mpumie We will get ANCYL to pay

  • Uncle - 2011-05-23 09:12

    December 25 is the end of the world. That's when Santa Clause will come down on his shiny unicorn and using the power of Grey Skull he will take away all the naughty children to Narnia. Ridiculous? Maybe...but not as ridiculous as all those silly Jewish Fairytales the "good people" believe in.

      Matt - 2011-05-23 09:21

      Silly Jewish fairytales, a fair few of which have been proven to have happened, or are scientifically possible (eg Moses parting the seas, or unleashing the plagues on Egypt - both have been shown by non-believing scientists to be scientifically possible). Stories or not stories, sure beats the one about the princess kissing the frog to turn it into a prince, add millions of years and it becomes "fact"...

      Uncle - 2011-05-23 09:31

      Hey Matt...And water into wine? Couple of fish for 5000...come now...don't be a box.

      Matt - 2011-05-23 09:50

      Yes, some things require faith, but plenty things require faith but were also proven to be possible. Explain remains of Egyptian chariots halfway into the Red Sea for example. Did the coelacanth evolve into a chariot wheel? Not likely. Still, with the alternative to being a "box" being the idea that everything came from nothing and a rock became human via soup, fish, amphibians, reptiles and apes... I'll take my chances with something a bit more credible thanks!

      Matt - 2011-05-23 10:10

      Check this...

      Spade - 2011-05-23 10:29

      Matt - you are welcome to believe that God could not separate the seas, and that it had to be strong winds, in order to make it scientific. I will stick my my belief that its and ancient urban-legend, as are most stories in the Bible. Its not personal, its just hard for me to believe in the fantastic and incredible. Seeing is believing...

      Jason - 2011-05-23 10:31

      Noah lived to be 950 years old.. as well as his exploits with arc.. If you believe that you'll believe anything. oh and don't tell me in Noah's time the years aren't as long so not 950 years in our years... how much shorter are the years 10 month, 9 months still makes him 700 years old. Fairy tales..and they get offended when you call them stupid and gullible!

      Matt - 2011-05-23 10:35

      @ Spade - your choice of course! But if seeing is believing, you can't see your brain but it really is there... (this doesn't apply to Juliass of course, hehe)

      Hannah - 2011-05-23 10:50

      please do not bring Judaism into this the Jews are the last to bash anyone with their beliefs... they have never told anyone to do or say or believe anyone! if anything they are to be esteemed for how much of the bashing they put up with without complaining, they fight their own battles and dont tell the world of how bad they suffer at the hands of Islam constantly bombarding them and not only for political "religious" ideological purposes but mainly because muslims dont like the fact that democracy reigns on their doorstep and they are threatened by modernism, technology and science all the other fabulous forward moving and thinking that the Israelis have given to us and other Jews around the world, remember that we owe our greatest thanks and esteem to scientists and developers and chemists and doctors etc... to individuals that were more often than not of Jewish decent and never once did we hear that they demanded we do anything say anything or believe anything because of their faith! That is truly recommendable in my book..

      Mark - 2011-05-23 10:53

      Hey Matt, quite the brilliant guy you are!! You guys are very quick to take the miracles of Gods work and find some scientific explanation for it. how about using all that brilliance and find a cure for AIDS, huh.

      Matt - 2011-05-23 10:54

      @ Jason - like the Neanderthal remains that were shown to be human (not missing links) and going by the bone structure/growth would have been around 200 years old; or the Hunza tribe in Northern Pakistan whose life expectancy was 160 years till the white man came along and reduced it to "only" 90 years... I can understand people wouldn't believe that people lived to be 900, but bearing in mind that according to creation, they would have been really close to a perfect gene-pool, and how pre-flood conditions were most likely entirely different to nowadays (higher oxygen content for one), I see no problem with people having a longer age in those days. Also, after the flood - with changing conditions - people lived shorter and shorter. Still, even all this seems more plausible than us coming from apes...

      Jason - 2011-05-23 11:23

      @MATT if you going to the scientific information I would suggest going to the scientist that have done the research not the creationist sites feeding you this. We aren't decedents of Neanderthal they are a separate branch. By the simple fact you are suggesting we came from Neanderthals suggests you accepting the evolution, but once again only the parts that suite you. Anyway Neanderthals died out 30,000 years ago about 25 years before the supposed creation of earth 5,000 years ago "According to the creationist timeline" So actually they Neanderthals couldn't have ever existed.

      Matt - 2011-05-23 11:29

      @ Mark - well, let's work out where AIDS originally came from first - still no confirmation where it came from; but one way it could diminish somewhat is if people stopped sleeping around for fun... which is still the main cause? BTW there's an HIV+ guy in Germany who had a bone marrow transplant, became HIV- and 1 year later he's HIV- . Watch this space :-) And some cures for other stuff, well read the Bible... see Leviticus 5 on hygiene rules, they're only 4000 years old, and were only "discovered" by man in 1849... just a thought

      Matt - 2011-05-23 11:39

      @ Jason. Neanderthal was purported to be the missing link between man and ape. The originals were found over 150 years ago and back then studies showed they were human, elderly people with ricketts as children and arthritis later on - and were a couple of thousand years old. Copies were made for different museums around the world; people studied the copies and came up with their evolutionist ideas. When they went back to study the originals, they came to the same conclusion as before - elderly, diseased, couple of thousand years ago. BTW, trivia - Neanderthal was named after Neander Valley in Germany where the first remains were found. Valley was named after Joachim Neander, who wrote hymns 500 years ago about God the Creator. Ironic hey...

      Matt - 2011-05-23 11:41

      @ Jason. And to nit-pick, I'm not saying we came from Neanderthals - I'm saying we came from God and were made just the way we were meant to be. It was the evolutionists who claimed "missing link". I'd never claim such a thing!

      liesl - 2011-05-23 11:43

      @ Spade - but if you see, belief is no longer necessary.

      Albo - 2011-05-23 11:49

      Maybe a Tsunami parted the sea?? Maybe the Dinosaurs forgot to get on the Arc??

      Trêvhir - 2011-05-23 11:56

      Matt, you never gave it a thought that it was a lot easier and more convincing if god just organised a couple'a boats hanging around the shore to ferry the people over. No, it had to be the outragous resque attempt to prove Jaweh the stronger god between Ra and Zeuss which again makes the Israeli nation a stronger nation with the strongest god on their side. But since we are in the 2ist century we now understand that gods have dissapeared together with the ghosts that haunted the ancient nations!!

      Matt - 2011-05-23 11:58

      @ Albo - no, dinosaurs would have been on the Ark (baby ones though)... they weren't extinct before man came along. There are plenty of artefacts found that show man and dino together... in Biblical terms, Behemoth and Leviathan are clear descriptions of what would be dinosaurs and as Job was told to "behold" them, they'd have to have been alive for him to behold them; one can also argue that the Biblical word for dinosaur would be dragon, for the Bible mentions dragons but the English translation came in 1611, and the word dinosaur was 1841 I think?

      Matt - 2011-05-23 12:01

      @ Trevhir - and where was the shore? Seeing how the whole world was covered...

      Matt - 2011-05-23 12:04

      @ Albo - oh but dinosaurs would have been on the ark... albeit baby ones, the big ones are a little big :-) Job 40+41 tell Job to behold the Behemoth and Leviathan - read the descriptions and you'll see they were dinos, and they must have been there as Job was told to "behold" them. Another argument is that the Bible refers to dragons, and the English translation was from 1611 - the word dinosaur only got made around 1841. Or, one can look at many ancient artefacts found around the world that show dino and man together, and ask how they knew about dinos if they weren't discovered yet? But no doubt someone will try to tell me :-)

      RiRo1 - 2011-05-23 13:32

      @Jason Earth wasn't created 5000 years ago? Even Bible believers know that, tjop... :-) Anyhoo, I don't care if anyone wants scientific proof of my God's existense or not, I believe in Him and His plan. @Mark Actually, there is a way of getting AIDS eliminated, but nobody would want to do that. I mean, getting whole generations to stop having sex and doing drugs like heroine, is alot to ask... ;-) That way, the AIDs infected can die out and then the uninfected can live their lives... Impractical though...

      NuttyZA - 2011-05-23 13:51

      A Matt... I have been trying my hardest to just let this drop, but sadly (and it IS a sad indictment on me), I can't... Just one question.... Where the hell did you get the idea that Neandethal Man was/is supposed to be the missing link between Man and Ape????

      S.J Coetzee - 2011-05-23 14:09

      @Matt. Go on my friend. I don't think you'll win with these fools but I'm behind you all the way. I've tried reasoning with their kind before. It doesn't help.

      Matt - 2011-05-23 14:26

      @ NuttyZA. Just went to have a look to be reminded what a Neanderthal was supposed to look like according to the artists supporting evolution. Funny how, over a period of many decades, the impression given to the masses of what a Neanderthal looked like, seem to be eerily half-ape. When you find a bunch of bones, you can do a scan and work out what the head looked like (and looks very much human - not a subspecie or different specie as is believed. So how do you determine that they were covered in fur? Either that's people believing it was a missing link, or a media intent on propaganda to get people to believe that. Media propaganda? Surely not? OK so look at Lake Laetoli in Tanzania. They found a layer of ash (obviously hard) some 4-million years old. Shortly after they dated it, they found human footprints. After study of the prints and of people who go through life barefoot, it showed they were perfect human prints. Conclusion - the missing links must have had feet like ours! But humans weren't "known" to be 4-million years old! And they couldn't say "human" because that shows they were proven wrong - so now they're called homonids! No bones found, yet it's called a different species! Enter 1979, Nat Geo Magazine writes on the find - edited the footprints to resemble a monkey's (drew a toe on the side) and put a black ape-man there, walking (there were even suggestions of racism at the time, depicting an ape-man as black). Propaganda? Heck yeah!

      Matt - 2011-05-23 14:29

      @ SJ Coetzee - thanks, was getting lonely there :-) and if you want, I know they won't listen but it doesn't mean everyone should give up... funny though how they will nit-pick everything you say, but they blindly believe the theory as if it were factual - also funny how their answers often boil down to "you're stupid" and "I won't waste my time with you", and yet consider themselves smart... calling someone dumb does not make you smart! Romans 1:22-25 and how true this rings...

      Jakalas - 2011-05-23 15:01

      @Mark " find a cure for AIDS, huh."...WHY???

      Jason - 2011-05-23 16:47

      @MATT FAIL : baby dinosaurs on the ARC. Now you reported me for saying religious people are F-ing Stupid. Then you say this! Do yourself a favor go research that creationist claims properly not just the info they give you. But you won't because you don't want to hear the rest because you know everything.

      Matt - 2011-05-24 08:52

      @ Jason. And you reaction to my idea is "you're dumb". How clever you are. There was nothing said in the Bible about taking fully grown animals. Taking babies would be logical - they sleep longer, they're tougher (when a baby falls down they cry a little and get up, adults lie down a little longer), they eat less, they live much longer... so a fully grown giraffe would need a sling for its neck but a baby (6') would not. A T-Rex could be 18' tall but an egg was the size of a football. You may now stick your fingers back in your ears and go "na na na".

  • Matt - 2011-05-23 09:13

    I read the "prophecy" about the world ending on Saturday. It is based on assumption and on incorrect numbers, not on the Bible itself. Which is why it was no surprise to me that the "prophecy" was a dud. Based on the guy's theory, with correct dates, we'd have another 2000 years! But, nobody knows the day so just be ready for whenever it may happen :-)

      adriaan - 2011-05-23 10:30

      I cant wait another 2000 years Matt , 50 tops!

      Matt - 2011-05-23 10:37

      Amen Adriaan!

  • Matt - 2011-05-23 09:14

    Just wondering what will happen in 2013 - after all the "prophecies" of the end of the world would have come and gone - what will people do without another "date"?

      Fred - 2011-05-23 10:45

      Wasn't the volcanic eruption in Iceland a sign?

      Matt - 2011-05-23 11:30

      @ Fred - yeah, a sign not to buy real estate in Iceland right now :-)

      jowza - 2011-05-23 12:13

      they will to rethink.osama just blew up heaven.the americans recorded it

      IBI - 2011-05-24 05:54

      Matt, another spanner in the works of evolutionists are the human footprints they found in a dinasaur pawprint, confirming that the human walked the same path, but at the same time. Their long standing theory that dinasaurs became extinct millions of years before humans appeared on the scene. The intrinsic authenticity of the Bible has been proven time and time again by even non-christians. A lot of them started believing after their studies. A once off quick read through of the Bible is not enough. Study it properly and the lights will go on. I enjoy the waffling of the "experts". Serious Christians pitied the old American, we knew he was wrong, but we dont condemn. We know what to expect; the unbelievers dont.

      Matt - 2011-05-24 09:50

      @ IBI - good one - the Glen Rose TX prints... yes, the Bible never ceases to amaze. So often it will be mocked, and then something is discovered that makes the mockers look like fools - so they just find something else to mock. The Bible speaks of underwater hot springs, which was a topic of ultimate mockery - "look how stupid the Bible is" - and then in 1974 they actually discovered underwater hot springs :-) But hey, someone has to try with them ;-) and when the responses are "you don't understand", "you copied from AIG" (I've still never been to AIG but I hear it's a good site), basically it's "we're smart, you're dumb". Bear that idea in mind, the second you ever speak to one :-) because it's their main weapon. It's not like they have science on their side, hehe... they'll fight you on every last point, but still believe their wacky theories. Or, "they'll strain a gnat but swallow a camel". Oh well... let me check what new articles came in today :-)

  • anna - 2011-05-23 09:15

    Why are people so fascinated with their own destruction? It's like they just hang around waiting for it to happen. Freaks!

      Spade - 2011-05-23 10:30

      Makes for nice graphics in movies though...

      Matt - 2011-05-23 10:38

      In tribute of the old idiot who predicted the rapture on Saturday, on Friday evening I watched 2012... strange though how the woman was involved with another man, who got killed jumping onto the ark, and not a few minutes later was passionately kissing her ex. Eish!

  • AnanseYoYo - 2011-05-23 09:18

    hahahahahaha brilliant! Idiots - and the king of all idiots old Malema was also in the mix - classic!

  • Noname - 2011-05-23 09:18

    What a bunch of idiots

  • Silulwane Ka Mhlambi - 2011-05-23 09:19

    People should stop claiming to prophesy while they propheguess...

      lotus.lindi - 2011-05-23 13:06

      Indeed. And in the old testament, false prophets were stoned....

      NuttyZA - 2011-05-23 15:36

      @Lotus.Lindi... I think he must have been stoned to predict something like that ;-)

  • CynicBelieve - 2011-05-23 09:20

    *spit my coffee out* Bwhahahaha! Uhm...there will be a rapture of some sort... more like a rapture of their money out of their wallets

  • Jules - 2011-05-23 09:23

    WOW i really expect this from Americans but my fellow South Africans are dumb enough to believe this drivel??

      W H Kotze - 2011-05-23 10:28

      Where's the surprise? Didn't you see the election results?

  • - 2011-05-23 09:23

    The world did come to an end on Saturday night...thats if you are a Sharks fan.

      adriaan - 2011-05-23 10:33

      Yes there was a huge "rapture" in the sharks midfield :(

      Fred - 2011-05-23 10:46

      Sad but true.

  • Jeff - 2011-05-23 09:24

    First thing the world is not 2011 years old its been here before us and it will be here long after we are gone.....

      Matt - 2011-05-23 09:35

      Yeah, the dates are so wrong... he was working on the flood happening 7000 years ago to the day, but going by Biblical genaeology it would have been around 4500 years ago. Basic mistake which he missed. Still, now he can use his theory (which is unbiblical, so don't hammer Christians because of this dude please) and say "I was wrong, the dates show it will end on 21 May 4611" and nobody could argue with him and he'd still be a "prophet"... ai

      Fred - 2011-05-23 10:48

      Didn't they use to work on a lunar month, ie.28 days, therefore his calculations would be still further out.

  • Emile - 2011-05-23 09:26

    Rapture FAIL

      oxygen - 2011-05-23 09:36


      brown_bread - 2011-05-23 11:53

      EPIC rapture FAIL

  • Cuba12 - 2011-05-23 09:27

    So... these guy's were hoping to stay in a top class hotel and then be raptured before paying the bill? Doesn't that qualify as theft which would mean that they wouldn't be raptured even if it did happen seeing as you are meant to be with out sin in order to be "beamed up"?

      DerpyHooves - 2011-05-23 09:31

      Pedobear spotted, captain!

      Chris Hansen - 2011-05-23 09:44

      Why dont you take a seat over there

  • buka001 - 2011-05-23 09:27

    What a bunch of idiots! I wonder how they feel now. I wish I knew some of them, would have asked for them to give me their houses for free, since they weren't going to need them anymore!

  • JMan - 2011-05-23 09:28 Pathetic.

  • Mike@CapeT - 2011-05-23 09:30

    Moral of the story.....'don't believe everything you read and hear'!

  • braveinternetguy - 2011-05-23 09:30

    If they had no intentions of paying their bills, they would effectively have been stealing...making them last-minute-sinners, in which case, the Rapture would have passed them over anyway! haha!

      Raven - 2011-05-23 09:53

      Seeing that Camping's Family church is now $80 million richer due to donations from the idiots world wide, Coetzee can ask them to pay. I'm not that sure if this "Good Christian" will fork his "winnings" out though

      Matt - 2011-05-23 10:39

      @ Raven - the honourable thing to do would be for Camping to distribute that money to the people who honestly believed him and are now suffering for it. (their stupidity, but he was responsible for giving them the idea and claiming it was Biblical)

      Mannie777 - 2011-05-24 14:20

      Ag Matt please .... this was just another scam and people fell for it and Camping got rich .... plain and simple.

  • marisa.cronje - 2011-05-23 09:30


  • Uncle - 2011-05-23 09:34

    @ANCBlackAngel: except all the people who voted ANC...

  • theprodigy - 2011-05-23 09:35

    damn, I was hoping that Jesus was comming, at least that would be the end of the ANC, now we have to wait until 2014 to get rid of them.

      Matt - 2011-05-23 09:45

      Well apparently, the next doom date is 21 December 2012... only 1 1/2 years to go then and no ANC! Maybe if we can get the political leaders to believe that, they can all sit in Luthuli House on 21/12/2012 waiting for it, and they can drink poisoned Kool-Aid when it doesn't happen. Just an idea...

      Ntebo More - 2011-05-23 09:49

      lol,not only ANC will be gone all the political parties, we'll all be dead well I'll book a hotel

      Matt - 2011-05-23 11:15

      @ Ntebo - all political parties gone? That sounds like heaven.... Quick joke... what is politics? Poli = many Tics = blood sucking parasites

  • Rev. H-Cubed - 2011-05-23 09:36

    Even if the rapture did happen, they would not have been part of the happy crowd ascending to heaven anyway. I don't think fraudsters who plan on not paying their bills are on the list. Rich irony.

  • hindu_k - 2011-05-23 09:45

    Maybe there's no good people left in this world? LoL.

      Wytie - 2011-05-23 10:04

      well i dont know.. i checked around the office this morning , and that bitch in HR is not in today.. i swear, i cant believe she made it onto the 'good people' list and i didn't !! this is just so not fair!!

      Fred - 2011-05-23 10:55

      Hey good one, maybe God was in the process of collecting all the good people could find anybody and in his disappointment forget to wipe the shithole called earth, out.

      RiRo1 - 2011-05-23 13:55

      LOL. well, let me put it like this... Only 144000 throughout the history of the world are worthy of reigning with Christ - it says so in the Bible (They were already elected by God before the foundation of creation) - so imagine how many people that will be? I mean, there are almost 9billion peeps alive TODAY, now add the rest of humanity that ever lived... Now choose out of all of those, 144000... mmm, I think most christians will not be part of that... especially if they believe THEY choose their destinies and that hell is an eternal punishement for the evil...

  • Amien - 2011-05-23 09:45

    GOD alone is aware of the final hour

  • Angel - 2011-05-23 09:49

    I caN't believe some people are sucH morons. How beleiving can you be if you take advantage of worldly things as your last day on earth, instead of spending your "last moments" with loved one's. Self Righteous idiots!

  • Ntebo More - 2011-05-23 09:51

    can we leave the politics? PLEASE

  • nic69ers - 2011-05-23 09:51

    FAIL! Hahaha!! Ask your genius leader apparently he is good with maths! Camping you biscuit, Thanks you guys made my week!!

  • Currie_Mafia - 2011-05-23 09:55

    Religion & politics...Strange how a few numbnuts can bring an organisation into disrepute....(a GOOD non-Christian)

  • Kholekile Swartz - 2011-05-23 09:55

    No one about that day and hour, not even the angels in heaven, nor the Son, but only the Father (Matthew 24:36). Therefore keep watch because you do not know on what day your Lord will come (Matthew 24:42). Anybody who claims to know the hour of the End of Age is a false prophet because the Bible clearly states that no one except God knows the hour...

      Mark - 2011-05-23 10:59


      lotus.lindi - 2011-05-23 13:09

      Absolutely. I hope these poor people will have learned something: Check the words of men and women by the word of God! Life will hold fewer surprises and disappointments.

  • Mike - 2011-05-23 09:55

    A bunch of unhappy Campers I'd say bwahahahaha :-)

      Fred - 2011-05-23 10:56

      I think the hotel managers the unhappiest, he got to get these twats to pay.

      nic69ers - 2011-05-23 11:56

      *Slow Clap* Hahaha brilliant!!

  • john - 2011-05-23 09:56

    Of all the places in the world where I might wish to spend my last few hours, Braamfontein doesn't rate very highly. Sheesh, why didn't they go to Mauritius or Hawaii or something? Park off on the beach with a pina colada and chill. What on earth were they doing in Braamfontein??

      Matt - 2011-05-23 10:12

      Maybe it was on their bus route

      Albo - 2011-05-23 11:55

      hehe - my thoughts exactly John

  • Silindile Sithole - 2011-05-23 09:58

    What were thinking, if it was in Biblical times I was gonna b the 1 of those who were gonna throw stones @ them

  • Human - 2011-05-23 09:59

    False prophets. Maybe an indicator that the world is indeed coming to an end, but, my opinion is that your world come to an end when you DIE.Sorry Johannes,next time use your brain.

  • DW - 2011-05-23 10:04

    Whatever they believed and however they were deceived, I fail to see why they needed to book into a hotel for the end. If the rapture did happen Jesus can take you from wherever you are - asleep in bed at home, in a field working. Why did they see the need to move out of society? And now they sit with the embarassing situation. Stupid move.

  • Gavin - 2011-05-23 10:05

    Why do all the stupid people live on my planet ??

      Mark - 2011-05-23 11:00

      Birds of a feather....

      Barry - 2011-05-23 14:36

      ........flock together

  • Zabatman - 2011-05-23 10:06

    Maybe there are simply no good people?

      My Comment - 2011-05-23 10:22

      Yeah...and now we have to live in this hell until October 21st!

  • Luckybugger - 2011-05-23 10:08

    A ANCBlackAngel= BAT

  • Ke maketse - 2011-05-23 10:10

    "the rest of humanity would have hell on earth until October 21 when the world would finally come to an end." Hell on earth is already here and has been for a long time.

  • Jack Monch - 2011-05-23 10:11

    What if the end is next week. miscalculation of one week LOL!

  • Ixian - 2011-05-23 10:12

    What a load of toffee, these religious fanatics can chew on this crap all day. What would happen if the world did come to an end and you as a Christian were in Iran and God accidentally thought you were a Muslim and gave you 70 Virgins? Would you give them back?

      Matt - 2011-05-23 11:21

      God wouldn't make that mistake, or else He wouldn't be God now, would He...

  • Bruna - 2011-05-23 10:14

    my best is teh stupidity to follow a man who once predicted this would happen in 1994!!!! sheep mentality!!