Orania, Xhosa community sign agreement

2012-12-11 14:29

Johannesburg - The Afrikaner cultural separatist town of Orania and the Xhosa community of Mnyameni signed an agreement on Tuesday to help both settlements achieve greater self-reliance.

They had agreed that their communities should take greater responsibility for their own progress, Orania spokesperson Jaco Kleynhans said in a statement.

"By signing this agreement today we prove that an alternative exists for the present syndrome of dependency that affects so many South African communities."

The agreement outlined the priorities of both parties.

The Mnyameni group wanted to move away from being "totally dependent" to an "economically, socially and environmentally" self-reliant community.

Orania aimed "to be a self-determining Afrikaner community taking responsibility for its own future in terms of economy, culture and labour".

They resolved to recognise their differences and commonalities for the purposes of working towards the improvement of both groups.

According to the agreement, they would share "the knowledge and experience at our disposal, to unlock the potential of our people, develop the assets of our areas, empower our members and capacitate our institutions".

  • theMichaelHawthorne - 2012-12-11 14:35

    Just another banana republic...

      johan.mostert.967 - 2012-12-11 14:54

      And that is why the Xhosas want to learn from them.

  • eyesears.handsfeet - 2012-12-11 14:36

    With something like this I can live, where each excepts responsibility for their own well-being, working "side by side". The only thing keeping it down is the trust factor. One will always wonder.

      Sibusiso - 2012-12-11 14:47

      There is no side by side or their own anymore.This is one country under one authority and 9 provincial govts.Long live diversity under one SA.

      DuToitCoetzee - 2012-12-11 15:04

      To me the importance should be with people uplifting themselves. People cant bargain on government to do it and if this will help them than I glad for them.

  • bond.ndalo - 2012-12-11 14:36

    Why it took so long to iron their differences?

  • washington.munjangasinyorowekurema - 2012-12-11 14:37

    Why do South Africans allow a separatist farm to exist in their country? This Orania thing must be abolished and its proponents must be arrested.It is such racist bigots who are a threat to a harmonious co-existence between blacks and whites in Africa.

      eyesears.handsfeet - 2012-12-11 14:41

      It's being called live and let live. And futher you have no idea of what you are talking about. Seriously. Why do you want to FORCE people to live together? If they can work it out like this, let them be. They are harming no one and more can benefit at the end of the day, than with the likes of your rambeling, washington.

      richard.hipkin - 2012-12-11 14:53

      Arrested for what? Wanting to live with their own kind? Isn't that part of our constitution, the right to association? Sit down.

      mariuskowie - 2012-12-11 15:03

      washington.munjangasinyorowekurema, you are quite willing to call a ethnic community populated by whites, a "separatist farm" and you are calling for it's abolishment. On the other hand, you are completely mum on the various ethnic Xhosa or Zulu villages. Either you are very ignorant or you are a racist. I cannot believe that you can be so ignorant.

      burningdogz - 2012-12-11 15:12

      Those bigots you say? I assume you met any of them or visited Orania to see for yourself? Singing songs like kill the boer and discussing BEE legistlation that withholds aid to white kids is far more concerning than a group of people that decided to try their own thing because they feel they weren't included in the new South Africa. They also, according to the article, found a means to work together with other cultural groups in a harmonious way, which in itself seems a bit more positive then the usual headlines of "people burn down everything because they want more and more." The right of association is part of our constitution and their peaceful way of life is hardly a threat. Now compare that to the threats of the ANCYL of "give us economic freedom or else" and the ever so popular "time to take farms without compensation" oh and let us not forget the "nationalise everything" chants. I can go on and on and on but the facts remain that you don't force co-existance and you certainly don't threaten it. If anything Orania is slowly moving into harmonious co-existance far more peacefully than what we see here in the main cities probably because they won't force themselves but rather communicate with their neighbours as equals and not as servants (which is the route currently taken by our goverment).

      koos.vandermerwe.75 - 2012-12-11 15:48

      @Solo: They might not be an independent state BUT demographics determine the ground rules as if you didn’t know this. So in effect they govern themselves by their own standards, morals and bylaws. A lot said it could not be done but yet there they are. Let’s not even forget that old Zipper boy himself went there “to learn”. If the poo hit the fan tomorrow Orania will probably be one of the better placed to be. I mean just read the beginning of the article. Notice how Orania gets the bad connotation while the Xhosa community doing exactly the same thing gets mentioned in neutrality. I tip my hat to these two communities.

      nettie.potgieter.5 - 2012-12-11 16:07

      Do you have a problem whith the Zulu kingdom where only zulus live or any of the Xhosa vilages or where the Koi and San communities live seperate of any other group of SA. And big question what about Zumaville where only Zulus are welcome. Even Mr Mandela is living in a village where their are only Xhosas. Is that accordingly to you also Seperatist and their proponents arrested?

      rory.n.price - 2012-12-11 23:31

      Washington yeah right, where white Orphans cannot get grants as they don't comply with BEE, whites can't get jobs because of Affirmative Action, great diversity specially if you comply with BEE and black

      stephanie.sutherland41 - 2012-12-12 00:27

      Because they have a right to their culture just as you have a right to yours in the homelands and other communities were it is made clear whites aren't welcome. These people live by old cultural standards relying on the land and hard work, self discipline and faith. In todays society a community in city limits living like this would be disruptive, thus they moved out to were they can live in piece. Much like the Mormons in America. Don't hear anybody bitching about them.

      seanwinninglawson - 2013-02-06 20:51

      "Why do South Africans allow a separatist farm to exist in their country?" Orania was built from nothing by its inhabitants, and you cant just take property away from people, and They are simply not causing any trouble.they are also self sustaining, to the point where, I believe, they even have their own currency. "This Orania thing must be abolished and its proponents must be arrested." Just because they have different values? They are not the aggressors. They peacefully separated themselves so they can live the way they choose and can be happy. They are not forcing you or anyone else yo live their way. But you want to force them to live the way YOU choose? With that type of attitude I think you should be arrested. "It is such racist bigots who are a threat to a harmonious co-existence between blacks and whites in Africa." Ok, so to be clear; The people who are productive, live peacefully, and mind their own business are a threat? I hope you realise how monumentally dumb that statement is.

  • Carlton - 2012-12-11 14:37

    Im inspired by this from now on my house will be called Carlonia, now all I need is a nuke and two subs, then I secede from SA.

      DuToitCoetzee - 2012-12-11 15:07

      I am sure there will be drink somewhere known as a "nuke" and 2 "subs" you can buy at many take-aways. lol. Enjoy!

      heinrich.etsebeth - 2012-12-12 06:54

      Anyone with a nuke and two subs can take on the SA army with one hand tied behind his back and still win without getting as much as a scratch.

  • Billy - 2012-12-11 14:53

    thats pretty cool actually

  • richard.hipkin - 2012-12-11 14:54

    Here are two different cultures and races signing agreements and all you lot can do is spew stupid comments. Sit down. They have achieved more then you useless lot!

  • mzwakheblackie - 2012-12-11 14:57

    WELL WELL!maybe this is the true beginning of a new SOUTH AFRICA so lets all support this and stop being so negetive plz we supposed to be one according to MADIBA,well done nice move

  • KevinKing - 2012-12-11 15:00

    Can anyone please give me the crime stats for Orania?

      burningdogz - 2012-12-11 15:33

      Currently I am not sure, but a couple of years back when I visited there to check it out, it was pretty much 0. There were the odd guy who had too much to drink, in which case they were held overnight to sober up, and there was one 'theft of bike' but the kid whose bike was stolen actually realised he forgot it somewhere. Whoops.

      beki.khumalo - 2012-12-11 15:50

      Poverty and crime go hand in hand, I hope that answers your stupid and racist driven question!

      themba.thwala.775 - 2012-12-11 15:58

      bheki.kumalo, musa ukubheda mfana. Would you say that scum who hijack and kill for luxury cars do that because of poverty? What about those those who kill us for television sets, and other expensive electronic equipment? How about stealing life's essential items such as food and clothing instead in the name of poverty? What about the crime of corruption by highly paid government officials? Do they commit grand theft because they are poor?

      koos.vandermerwe.75 - 2012-12-11 16:12

      @beki.khumalo: SO you think the people of Orania are all stinking rich? I’d like to show you and then give you a klap. That poor vs. crime thing is cANCer propaganda. I can show you a lot of poor people who do not rob or kill anyone.

      burningdogz - 2012-12-11 16:32

      Actually Bheki, that is a myth. Criminology was one of my main subjects at varsity and it crime statistics show that poverty is not an explaining factor for crime. The types of crime may vary due to different opportunities presented by wealth, for example, wealthy people might be more prone to white collar (not colour) crime as they have more access to positions that would allow for the crime and would probably have a better understanding of financial institutions etc. I can go on and on but the fact remains poverty does not equal crime. Secondly, are you implying all the people in Orania are rich? I hate to break it to you, but no. One of the reasons Orania's population is still reletavily small is due to a lack of opportunities to create wealth. They have their own currency (sort of) you know. So the long and the short is the demographic of poor versus rich is much the same as most of the population. Who do you think does all the labour in Orania? It is the poor white folks who lay the bricks. Sorry Bheki, try again.

      mc.segal.5 - 2012-12-11 16:39

      Kevin Not even a bar Fight?

      mc.segal.5 - 2012-12-11 16:40

      Do the even have a cop shop?

      jacyjays.letsoalo - 2012-12-11 22:41

      Burningdogz u are a very reasonable man! U don't use emotions to state ur views, wish to have more convo with u oneday...u aren't attack minded..

      dewalds3 - 2012-12-12 08:08

      There was a break-in in a small shop a few years ago and two young white males stole cigarettes. They are still in jail in Hopetown, the nearest big town to Orania.

  • mzwakheblackie - 2012-12-11 15:03

    We all belong to this lovely Nation.Blacks,English,Afrikaaners and Indians this our country so lets stop this politicians by holding hands together.We can make a better living by working hands in hands without DA and ANC coz they are the ones dividing us by trying to score vote on us blaming one another

      thatTallCPTgay - 2012-12-11 15:39

      I agree with you Mzwakhe :) We are ALL part of this nation, nothing is going to change history, so we just need to try stop seeing things as black and white, and start looking forward to the future.

      koos.vandermerwe.75 - 2012-12-11 15:51

      If only that was all that was wrong in this country but sadly you are mistaken.

  • KevinKing - 2012-12-11 15:06

    What's with black people calling a few white people want to live peacefully on their own, racist.... but allow their African brothers to get necklaced in their own communities? XeNOPHOBIA!

  • mefi.boset.56 - 2012-12-11 15:08

    We know what happened to Piet Retief!

      Billy - 2012-12-11 15:25

      ja, he trusted the zulus

      koos.vandermerwe.75 - 2012-12-11 15:53

      @Solo: I want to show you a river.

      dewaldt.duplessis.5 - 2012-12-11 17:49

      Dikgat Dingane killed his own brother King Shaka! That just shows us the toads that they are. Piet Retief was too trustworthy I agree. But in his defense he was a civilized human being and didn't know of any better to trust Zulus. I have much respect for King Shaka because I love history. After Dingane invited Piet Retief and the others for a traditional Zulu dance performed by the Zulu warriors,they closed the camp and killed all the Voortrekkers present and Piet Retief was killed last. But let me give you a friendly warning don't f#ck with us Boers!

      heinrich.etsebeth - 2012-12-12 07:03

      @dewaldt: they are making it way too easy for us. they even destroyed their own army. The only problem we will have is the logistics around getting all of the digging equipment to Nkandla to dig Zuma out of his hole. Oh wait no, we won't even have a problem with that.

  • ruben.maistry - 2012-12-11 15:18

    I do not know whats in the agreement, but agreements of this nature should not be practiced in this time and day.A separatist town should not be in existence.The thumbing on the comments says a lot. The so called educated conviniently forget right living.This agreement is a sad document for all South Africans.Let us help each other and live harmoniously, side by side, not in isolation of each other.Let us respect each other, not create barriers.

      aphiwe.mayola - 2012-12-11 15:24

      Well said!

      richard.hipkin - 2012-12-11 15:29

      Um, that is the whole purpose of the agreement. Shared knowledge to enable co-existence..

      koos.vandermerwe.75 - 2012-12-11 15:57

      Barriers, Armed response, barbed wire, steel gates, burglar bars, high walls, movement detectors and laser beams are all value added items to a standard house today. On top of that you add big dogs, water traps and firearms. This is normal. Where do you live Rampant?

      Bob - 2012-12-11 17:16

      Rampant, liberal society has brainwashed you into thinking that we can all live in harmony. The class and racial barriers cut deep into society and for valid reason too - there's far more differences between us than simply skin color. The only way to move forward is to accept such differences exist and allow people to live seperate lives.

      stephanie.sutherland41 - 2012-12-12 00:39

      Then all cultural non white settlements should not be allowed to exist in todays time either Rampant. Think before you speak because whats good for the goose is good for the gander. One cannot pick soley on one group to further so called unity. It must be across the board of accept that communities have rights to self management within a goverment.

      sebastiaan.biehl - 2013-01-22 15:38

      It seems you haven't read the article because your "arguments" are illogical. Agreement means to cooperate and live harmoniously as communities, not as one big mix-up. It is exactly the opposite of isolation. But it seems for you there is only one way, which means total ANC-domination of every aspect of live and killing living cultural communities, which can be Xhosa, Zulu, Afrikaner etc.

  • linds.ronhouse - 2012-12-11 15:27

    Who wants to live like a zoo animal anyway?

      sebastiaan.biehl - 2013-01-22 15:41

      You people in your suburbs live like zoo animals in your cages, not we that live a free life among our people.

  • Brian Dorning - 2012-12-11 15:29

    I say well done! Now this is the true spirit of SA, not Apartheid! Or reverse apartheid in the form of BEE that suppresses any form of minority categorized by race!

  • Carlton - 2012-12-11 15:56

    So according to Pointblanks logic people should live among their kind, but what is he/she doing in Africa. Technologically their is no such thing as a white African.

      koos.vandermerwe.75 - 2012-12-11 15:59

      Technologically their is no such thing as a white African? You are hurting yourself! Sit down before you hurt someone else.

      louis.nolte.3 - 2012-12-11 15:59


      frans.delport - 2012-12-11 16:21

      "Technologically" I don't want to live on this planet anymore *facepalm

      burningdogz - 2012-12-11 16:51

      I think you mean technically Carlton. Now, to your point, are you saying that all white people should not be allowed a place in Africa? Segregation in other words. Only Africans in Africa . . . hold that thought. It might be true that technically there is no such thing as a white african (excluding albinos) if you are talking strictly DNA, however the "white tribe" I belong to was formed in Africa. My tribes' language and culture was molded in Africa. I have no claim in Europe. Sorry. Furthermore, if you want to categorise race based on biological characteristics, then the "we are the same" flag might as well be burned. Quick to forget the Anglo-Boer war. Yup. My white african tribe shed blood, and lots of it, fighting the "Imperialists" in africa. Suffered in concentration camps etc. We also invested a lot of time and effort in africa. Most white south africans were born and raised in africa, just like their daddies and their daddies etc. In fact, most white africans were not simply border jumpers that joined the party lately. Finally, Orania was founded on a base of culture. We are asked daily to respect the african culture, multiple wives, slaughtering of cattle and the latest being having to except notes from Sangomas for sick leave. Okay, then why not respect their culture? Oh that thought, still holding it? How do you speak out against the seperatists by then advocating segregation. - go

      Bob - 2012-12-11 17:07

      No, technically there's no such thing as a non-African human being.

      Carlton - 2012-12-11 18:04

      Lol, I actually used it intentionally but hey! U loose some u gain some some ; )

      zapadela.tistarocha - 2012-12-11 19:38

      Burning; Seems living in Isolation which was a founding precedent/prerequisite is no longer attainable....This was fore-see-able This si a myth......This Isolation environment, oh apology.... a Cultural movement writhed in heritage. There will always be a relationship. Today it is a symbiotic one rather than the parasitic derivative.

      Dinos.Kaparos - 2012-12-12 09:27

      Carlton. My boetie. Its "there" and not "their".

  • givenvon.baloyi - 2012-12-11 15:57

    Finally these boerkies are tired of pick up their own trash and cleaning their own houses, they enlist the nearest domestic services from nearby village, I guess we can celebrate the lowered unemployment rate from that Xhosa village

      thatTallCPTgay - 2012-12-11 17:10

      Is that your opinion of black people, that they are only around to pick up trash and clean houses? You are insulting a lot of hard-working people by saying that....

      dewalds3 - 2012-12-12 11:06

      Only 570km by road between the two communities. You should start a taxi-service and become a millionaire overnight (like Zuma & co?).

      sebastiaan.biehl - 2013-01-22 15:48

      Your comment is ignorant. Before making comments, make sure you know where Mnyameni is. It is actually about 600 km from Orania. A bit far for domestic workers to walk, don't you agree? We see Mnyameni as an equal community and have moved beyond the "baas-worker" mentality.

  • jacyjays.letsoalo - 2012-12-11 16:21

    Hahaha, so funny! I mean Orania was started by these Boeres who didn't want to be ruled by Blacks and they said they wanted to work on their own. In that town u wouldn't see a black person in there. I smell a Piet Retief style. Very soon they will colonise the Xhosa community and annex for their own Hitler style Lebenraum. Anyway there is progress....

      burningdogz - 2012-12-11 17:28

      Actually Letsoalo there were black people there when I visited. The black communities living nearby would frequent the shops, especially the liquor store (make of that what you will). Secondly, they did not ask anyone to work for them and vica versa, they are sharing knowledge with another community who is striving for similar goals. It is called co-operation. Isn't it ironic that these "racist boertjies" have progressed more to live in harmony with people of different races and colour than the childish leaders of the ANC who still cling to "shoot the boer" rather than taking hands and working in harmony like these boertjies? You remarks stink of racism and you are clearly uninformed. I pity you.

      jacyjays.letsoalo - 2012-12-11 18:16

      Thanks for ur response and enlightening me. I am not racist but I am prompted by the Racial way in which Orania was founed...they also have their own currency...unfortunately I don't give a damn to ppl who at first dissaociated themselves from our country while other minorities stood firm and wanted to play a role in the country. Secondly I am not an ANC member nor a supporter, I don't support corruption. Unfortunately these are pinching factors to most leftwingers who wanted a Volkstad Blacks don't stay in Orania, they may have gone there in search of Jobs becos of poverty. There is no better way to Justfy their initial actions cos they were RACIST intensions to discredit the fact that a Black Prisoner can be a President. They, like Zuma will never change from their Tendency, once a Racist always a Racist what makes them reformed RACISTS now. It is like Believing Zuma isn't corrupt...merely stating what I sense...but u my dear Brother u sound like a very intelligent man

      zapadela.tistarocha - 2012-12-11 18:37

      This burning dog preacher is aptly coded and severely indoctrinated. Cut it any way you want , the truths are there to see. You want segregation now the bending of the back is ...too difficult. As for your war and blood lost, simple example , You and your English neighbour are fighting in my back porch for My House....come on now. - 2012-12-12 06:03

      zapadela and letsoala - You sound like real outdated African men - and the classic African racists to boot. I'm sorry my friend, but the days of sitting under a tree drinking beer all day long, while your wife tends the lands and your sons tend the cattle... are over. The land belongs to the government anyway and will NEVER belong to the people, especially not ones as morally corrupt as you two appear to be. Move on, the times they have changed, do you really want to be lumped in with those that believe rape can cure aids?

  • AndrewsPaul - 2012-12-11 16:22

    Well done! To the Xhosa community for showing that they are willing to take responsibility for their future and not wait for the government or anyone else to give them hand-outs, and especially for being bold enough to look past racial lines. And to Orania, for proving to the bigots, critics and other idiots (who I see many of are right here, judging by the brainless comments) that it was never a racial political thing, and for ultimately being willing to share. I've been to Orania to find out for myself what it's about and while it's not my thing, good for us all that it can offer a glimmer of hope of what could be possible.

  • Daniel Mah - 2012-12-11 16:26

    need to visit these 2 communities just to get a glimpse of how they live in their little kingdoms

      zapadela.tistarocha - 2012-12-11 20:14

      I Have to see this.....hehehehehehhee

  • Bra Tebzaah Sibilanga - 2012-12-11 16:47

    Orania,a country in another country.I wouldn't have allowed it to happen.Ass licking's dangerous.

      sebastiaan.biehl - 2013-01-22 15:55

      You cannot manage your municipalities and therefore need scapegoats who are, surprise, Afrikaners like in Orania. It sounds very much like Zimbabwe, blaming other people for own incapabilities. The farms have been taken, the whites chased out, and inequality and poverty is worse. But it feels so good blaming somebody else and destroy lives and property. At least you don't have to start thinking about your own government's shortcomings.

  • will.cronje.7 - 2012-12-11 17:14

    Two different groups/races working together for mutual benefit. Well done. This is what needs to happen everyday if we truly want to be a rainbow nation.

  • Bob - 2012-12-11 17:19

    When do us English folks get to have our own town?

  • thato.seloane - 2012-12-11 18:51

    According to the agreement, they would share "the knowledge and experience at our disposal, to unlock the potential of our people, develop the assets of our areas, empower our members and capacitate our institutions". Hehehe! What techo-structural assets do these old dinosaurs have,

      Sarel Roets - 2012-12-11 19:13

      Dinosaurs??? What do you know about us Oraniërs? have ever been to Orania or met any of us?

      sebastiaan.biehl - 2013-01-22 15:57

      A white racist would have said exactly the same, just refering to the Xhosas instead of Orania. That shows your mind-set. There is no difference between black and white racists, both are narrow-minded and driven by hatred.

  • thabo.shaku - 2012-12-12 00:19

    How self-reliant can a community be by signing an agreement with another community!

  • johann.vanryneveld - 2012-12-12 05:00

    Its. Not built with stolen money !!M

  • - 2012-12-12 05:47

    This is a good story. Too many negative comments for no reason. You people are all blind!! Here we have two very different cultures and communities working together to achieve a desired outcome. If people can't see the progress in this story, then they are foolish.

  • linda.duits - 2012-12-12 07:13

    Good luck to the two communities. How come the Amish in America can live in peace, a community in a community but alot of people commenting do not like it when two groups are trying to do their own thing.

  • James Lapepa Mokoka - 2013-05-22 10:45

    History is repeating itself. Xhosa people how do you make a deal with people which are not on the same terms.

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