Outcry over Tutu visit to US university

2012-05-02 09:17

Cape Town - A religious group is demanding that Archbishop Emeritus Desmond Tutu be banned from visiting a United States Catholic university because of his pro-abortion and same-sex marriage views, the Cape Times reported on Wednesday.

At least 7 723 people had signed a petition calling for Gonzaga University in Washington State to withdraw its invitation to Tutu, while another online petition sent out by the Cardinal Newman Society, which champions Catholic identity in higher education, had attracted over 800 signatures.

Tutu had accepted a request to deliver a keynote address at the university's 125th anniversary celebrations. He would also be given an honorary Doctor of Laws degree.

The petition reads: "Although Archbishop Tutu performed wonderful work in South Africa, his positions on pre-born life, sexuality, and his disrespect for the Jewish people, should disqualify him from receiving any honours at any institution worthy of calling itself Catholic".

A counter-petition by online community Faithful America had, however, already received 12 192 signatures.

It said "religious right extremists", who had been waging a campaign of fear and intimidation on Catholic college campuses, should not be allowed to silence Tutu.

  • Lyndatjie - 2012-05-02 09:22

    Good for you Tutu... challenging archaic beliefs is what you do best...

      George - 2012-05-02 11:00

      Guys hold on a sec: People were being killed in Uganda for being gay and Tutu helped, abortion: In SA we believe that the mother should make the call (I mean should decide slow one). I don't see how you can support people being burn, while the book that your reading states it clearly that thou shall not kill (and it worse to stand on the side and do nothing). I say Tutu should be allowed

      Andrew - 2012-05-02 11:02

      It is amazing just how quick Christians judge others. I thought Jesus said "do not Judge or you will be judged". Maybe I'm now judging the people judging now I'm also guilty of judging...a nice catch 22!

      Trevor - 2012-05-02 13:23

      Being Judgemental is such a misused phrase. Judging someone as a person is wrong. Condemning someone outright is obviously silly. Having an opinion on something that they did or said is necessary otherwise we would live in this grey soup where nobody is allowed to have an opinion other than what is the currently held populist societal norm - how wishy washy. In a weird twist of fate, the person who disagrees with abortion or any other seemingly populist norm is seen as ridiculous and backward - how judgemental is that? Having an opinion about something that someone did or said is necessary, as it helps us to determine whether or not we would do the same thing or whether we would behave differently. Judge the act, not the person.

  • Smile - 2012-05-02 09:24

    You find nutjobs everywhere... dont people have better things to do in the US?

      Twain - 2012-05-02 09:35

      No. They don't. Even with a recession, they are so comfortable that they NEED to find conflict to add spice to their otherwise boring lives.

      Rob - 2012-05-02 10:41

      Lol@Pointblank. Well no wonder these students want to protest, if most of them end up serving the Catholic Church, they will no doubt be buggering little alter boys or having it off with each other as " Father's & Nuns. " On the other hand though Tutu is well known for his pro Palestinian & anti Israel views, just as in this country he is pro black & anti White.

      Smile - 2012-05-02 11:15

      ### So religion is a hot topic ### Well, I am pretty tolerant to any religion because I see the need for it. That said: I am an agnostic, and if anyone is willing to be intolerant towards my belief please post below. I am just waiting for someone to tell me I am going to hell. :)

      thozi - 2012-05-02 11:50

      @Rob Wow, one learns something new everyday. All along I had been under the impression that the Arch. was anti any injustice, no matter the identity, origin or race of the perpetrator.

      Chez - 2012-05-02 12:04

      @Rob. How do you know he is "anti white"? i knew his son Trevor and i can tell you without doubt that there is NO racism in the Tutu house.

      Rob - 2012-05-02 12:23

      Thozi & Chez. See my comment, further down.

  • Matthew - 2012-05-02 09:26

    Catfight amongst the christians! I dont see how one archaic belief system is any worse than the other. Liberal Theology vs Fundamental Theology. Theology vs Theolgy Myth vs Myth Delusion vs Delusion leaves the whole world stupid.

      Twain - 2012-05-02 10:02

      Well, the one is a faith that doesn't go out of it's way to blindly follow dogma to the detriment of human society, the other one doesn't.

      wesley.bischoff - 2012-05-02 10:05

      Oh yes too true...

      Matthew - 2012-05-02 10:23

      Any faith requires the blind belief in dogma. Proof denies faith. So by having faith, one is, by its very definition choosing to believe that which is not there. As soon as someone says that they have proof, they can no longer have faith, according it's own etymology.

      Twain - 2012-05-02 10:46

      Agreed, to an extent. Thing is, you get people who don't let their faith blind them to the needs and problems of human society. They are firm believers in God and the lessons that religion can provide, but are not willing to sacrifice logic in regards to issues like HIV and poverty just because of the rules and regulations of an out-of-touch oligarchy (ie, the Vatican). That's where people like Tutu come in.

  • Andres - 2012-05-02 09:30

    Good on you Tutu for being a pragmatic & tolerant Christian voice for the 21st Century. Let these people be the bigots, don't listen to them. Take your message of religious tolerance and togetherness to these people!

      Michael - 2012-05-02 10:06

      Sure, tutu can go preach 'tolerance', murder of the unborn, blatant rebellion against the biblical statutes, yeah and all that. But he should not call himself a Christian and use God's name to do it with.

      Andres - 2012-05-02 10:16

      Intolerance will be the downfall of religion. Tolerance will bring people closer to religion. Only insecure believers have to be zealots to prove their faith. Secure believers are tolerant because they're steadfast in their spirituality and do not need others' to vindicate it. So, you can bash as much as you please, Michael... you're not doing yourself or the big-guy upstairs any favours.

      Andre - 2012-05-02 10:25

      Tolerance which contradicts Bible principles cannot be tolerated! Tutu is a false preacher who preaches what liberals want to hear and is not the TRUTH.

      Andres - 2012-05-02 10:34

      Pity people believe in an intolerant God. The greatest mistake humans ever made was to micro-manage God on their terms and to assume he is both unintelligent and lacks understanding. God is LOVE... period... nothing more, nothing less.

      Ask - 2012-05-02 10:51

      Yoh... Yoh... Yoh... and I thought the Muslim oaks were at it again.... Eish, Michael, Andre... you guys should be ashamed of yourselves.. you need to drink some holy water, which is situated at the Kosher section, right next to the Halaal shelve... at your nearest supermarket...

      thurlo.cicero - 2012-05-02 10:54

      Probably the best form of reasoning i have heard thus far - well done Annman. As a catholic myself - i appreciate your views. For a church to pride itself on "faith" and "reason", one questions the limits of such a discussion. If we are truly to take our Q from Jesus in the account of him in the Gospels, perhaps we can be more "christ-like" in behaviour and interaction - but we seem to be more and more followers of Paul - who instills the beliefs of which the church holds. Perhaps we should have a re-look at who our redeemer in fact really is, in the Catholic and "christian" sense. When one sees agnostics and the like acting more and more like Christians are suppose to act, then we really are following blindly, or worse - serving ourselves instead of one another humbly and lovingly.

  • hc12345 - 2012-05-02 09:37

    Sorry guys it is no cat fight between Christians. It is a matter of diluting the Word of a Holy God. A matter between the deceived and not deceived. Sorry Arch but you are diluting the Word of a Holy God. You are deceived. God does not change with the times. He has always been Holy and will always be Holy. We need to become like Him as He will never become like us.

      wesley.bischoff - 2012-05-02 10:27

      How do we become like someone that doesn't exist?

      Mike - 2012-05-02 10:31

      who cares anyway - tutu good man - otherwise who really cares - care should be given to the rhinos

      nsda29 - 2012-05-02 10:43

      Wesley He doesnt exist to you! To most of us he is 100% real Good comment HC12345!

      Jaja - 2012-05-02 11:23

      Is this the very same bible that says that rape victims should marry their rapists??? Deuteronomy 22:28-29

      Jaja - 2012-05-02 11:31

      @hc12345, you are the decieved one my dear. If we are to follow everything that the bible says then rape would not be a sin for the rapist, but would be a sin for the rape victim. Please read your bible carefully and tell me if you agree with what in the following passages say and if you practise what they say 1. If a man is caught in the act of raping a young woman who is not engaged, he must pay fifty pieces of silver to her father. Then he must marry the young woman because he violated her, and he will never be allowed to divorce her. Deuteronomy 22:28-29 2. They must be dividing the spoils they took: there must be a damsel or two for each man, Spoils of dyed cloth as Sisera's spoil, an ornate shawl or two for me in the spoil. Judges 5:30 3. If within the city a man comes upon a maiden who is betrothed, and has relations with her, you shall bring them both out of the gate of the city and there stone them to death: the girl because she did not cry out for help though she was in the city, and the man because he violated his neighbors wife. Deuteronomy 22:23-24

      Koos - 2012-05-02 11:38

      We are warned against people like tutu. He is supposed to be a person of the cloth. Paul warned Timothy against this exact thing. Don't let people like tutu delute your belief. I realised that the poor man has gone of the road when he uttered stuff like : who are we to say that nice people like Dalai Lama don't go to heaven. I could only shake my head.

      wesley.bischoff - 2012-05-02 12:37

      Ah yes, well schizophrenic people also believe things exist that actually don't. Thank goodness I'm not schizo... lol

      elewies - 2012-05-02 12:44

      @hc12345: since you're a fundamental Christian will you soon start a campaign that calls for polygamist marriages, a right to own slaves, stoning of women who have sex before marriage, reinstate marriage as a contract to own a women instead of a mutual agreement to solidify a loving relationship, right to sell of your daughters to other men, etc? If not then you should shut your trap because taking one part of the Bible literally and another part figuratively is rather hypocritical and devalues your organised religion... :)

      Maetsane - 2012-05-02 12:59

      Very well put, what surprises me is that people who claim to be Christian and believe in an omnipotent and almighty God, who states in His holy book: I am the same, yesterday, today of forever, still believe that the word of God can change. It can never change, ever! God does not make mistakes. Dilute your faith if you so wish, but don't delude your self into believing that you are still on the right track. God's law is not a weather-cock that changes with the direction of the wind.

      stephanie.sutherland41 - 2013-02-23 08:13

      You can never become like him, the human race is to flawed for that and our own subcontious habit of putting value on everything even faith, is what makes us a flawed experiment. We can only try to live a good and honest life, but trying to be like God?? common mate, anyone with half a brain knows they aren't even a millionth of that which is portrayed as God and never will be. But then again, SA has no shortage of two faced false Christians, who sit in the front pews and then steal from the poor and call it profit or business. No peeps, your spiritual worth is between you and God and you will one day find out if you are a good as you think you are :) Good luck with that though !

  • Arthur - 2012-05-02 09:37

    This is the most peace-loving man you'd ever meet who tells it like it is, and for that is the subject of some banning demand. Rich coming from an ultra religious group who should 'love thy neighbour', or at least listen to him. Silly really!

      Michael - 2012-05-02 10:11

      Yeah...right. You do realize that the devil comes as a 'man of peace', right? No? What a more peaceful way to murder the unborn than to put on a nice religious robe and funny looking hat and use innocent sounding anecdotes like 'it just like pulling out a bad tooth'. Tutu's own words.

      Rob - 2012-05-02 11:12

      He is a sly, insincere, borderline anti white, pro black, racist. I say borderline, because he is very sly & cunning in his comments. Who will ever forget the excuses he made for the bad behaviour of blacks in this country.

      thozi - 2012-05-02 12:52

      @Rob I thought it was the Arch who pleaded with South Africans not to condemn the white man who came to be known as the "Monster" for allegedly killing his step son and indecently molesting his former wife. Do I miss something here... naked racism in reverse?

      Chez - 2012-05-02 13:17

      @Rob. You have your head buried very firmly up your racist butt

  • richard.hipkin - 2012-05-02 09:38

    Christian fundamentalists... no better then Islamic fundamentalists...

      Michael - 2012-05-02 09:57

      Really? Could you qualify that statement?

      Matthew - 2012-05-02 10:00

      Yes. Religion = Delusion Fundamentalist Religion = Dangerous Delusion.

      gerry.pelser - 2012-05-02 10:22

      @Michael - I can. go to facebook and look for a group named "evidence of harm by religion" and you will see factual reportage of how ALL religion, but in particular Christian religion, is killing, maiming and undermining the people fo this planet in the name of "God". Actually, Christian fundamentalists are WORSE than Islamic fundies - at elast with the Islamic Jihadists, you know what you are in for. The Christian fundies just muck you up while pretending to preach love and compassion.

  • E=MC2 - 2012-05-02 09:42

    Wow, "religious" people really do it to themselves...

  • paul.maarman - 2012-05-02 09:49

    seriously - we, the rest of the world, call his thinking progressive... i love the "his disrespect for the Jewish people" me a bloody river!

  • Kobus - 2012-05-02 09:51

    Good for them! Who wants to listen to a false prophet anyway?

  • Michael - 2012-05-02 09:56

    Pro-abortion and same sex marriage is incompatible with traditional or biblical Christianity. Even the clergy within his own Anglican church see Tutu as nothing more than a wolf in sheep's clothing. There is nothing to see here, move along folk. This is another celebration of stupidity, people acting all shocked at conservatives standing up for what they believe. Again, we see those that preach tolerance being the most intolerant of conservative views.

      Matthew - 2012-05-02 10:25

      And christianity and bible teaching is incompatible with todays world. What may have worked for illiterate peasants, in the nether regions of the Roman Empire, is really just antiquated primitive myth.

      Arthur - 2012-05-02 10:48

      Clearly a lot of religious people read News 24 items. Why else would there be so many thumbs down to perfectly logical comments? Religion is illogical and Michael you are a prophet of the illogical

  • karenadawkins - 2012-05-02 10:02

    SO Glad That there is a man Like Tutu in this world, all these neandrathal ideas need to be abolished so that we can all live in harmony clearly the old catholic way just dose not work into-days society in fact i find it biggest and raciest

      Matthew - 2012-05-02 10:27

      Christianity is an anacronism that is backwards even by Neanderthal standards. Harmony will only come once religion in all it's permutations has been consigned to the scrap-bin of history, along with slavery, eugenics, rampant misogyny and all the other lovely little things that the bible roundly supports.

  • Jason - 2012-05-02 10:05

    Because they want to control the way people think..No room for free thinkers in the church!

  • Chien-Teng - 2012-05-02 10:07

    Geez, some of these hypocritical Americans like to preach that they (reminding the rest of the world) are a democratic country and society, everyone is born free and everyone has the freedom of expression. Meanwhile, they are stabbing and spitting at Tutu because Tutu expressed his own believes and his own point of views, which might or might not differ from these hypocrites and they just can't handle it and actually take other people's opinions into consideration.

  • roodbol - 2012-05-02 10:10

    Amen. He's NOT allowed in a Christian environment, even if he 'speaks' Gospel, he's not a Christian.

      Kobus - 2012-05-02 10:16

      Amen. A wolf in sheeps clothing still does not make him a sheep. He is still a wolf. Whatever makes people think that Tutu is a Christian? He is anything but.

      gerry.pelser - 2012-05-02 10:19

      and you say that on who'se authority?

      Matthew - 2012-05-02 10:31

      Amen. You people cannot even decide amongst yourselves who is a christian and who isnt. But the really, really strange thing is that peoples perception of god hates the exact same things that they do. God is an excuse to forward your own narrow minded bigotry, with divine backing. And for a religion that preaches love and tolerance, christians are the most hate-filled judgemental bunch of people I have ever encountered. For a non judgemental creed, I have never seen so much hatred, bile and judgement as that which comes out of the mouths of the 'saved' christians.

      wesley.bischoff - 2012-05-02 10:31

      Oh Jerry, you know how they love to judge others, in the back of their minds thinking they are better than all the sinners. Delusional morons

      wesley.bischoff - 2012-05-02 10:33

      Wow roodbol and kobus seem like stunning examples of how christians should be. Oh wait, most of them are that way; delusional, hateful bigots... and no matter what evidence is shown, they continue to spread their dogma and persecute those of us "devil worshippers." I truly feel sorry for these bigots.

      Felix - 2012-05-02 11:16

      Spot on SubG!

      Elizabeth Croeser - 2012-05-02 11:28

      It seems that this article has become a bashing platform for some, who truly believes they have the right to slam people they don't even know. That type of attitude explains a lot on why the world is in the state it is today. It is sad to see so many strangers being rude and nasty to one another trying to make their points but cant refrain to become personal.

      Matthew - 2012-05-02 12:04

      @Elizabeth - the rudeness and nastiness comes from those threatening hell and eternal tortuere on anyone that doesn't agree with them. We atheists are not hateful, just pointing out again and again that 1 + 1 does not equal 5. It is hard to not feel superior to someone with an iron age belief system. But hateful - no, that belongs to the hellfire brigade.

      Stefanus - 2012-05-02 13:23

      Roodbol you should ask someone to add horns to your FB profile pic.

      wesley.bischoff - 2012-05-02 13:30

      Sorry Gerry, i misspelled your name :-0

      wesley.bischoff - 2012-05-02 13:32

      @Elizabeth: the world is worse today then it was say, in 100BC, 1205, 1679? Yeah right. The world is better than it ever has been. Mainly because the church doesn't have a hand in ruling the world and deciding what people do with their own lives... Stop with all this, "no wonder the world is like it is today" bulls**t.

  • erneyb - 2012-05-02 10:13

    So typical of rightwing groups in America. Whilst Freedom of Speech in the U.S. is protected by the First Amendment of the U.S. Constitution, rightwing catholic and homophobic groups are of the opinion that the First Amendment is only applicable to them to express their opinions on abortion, homosexuality etc. Groups or individuals, like Archbishop Tutu, who have opposing views to these extremist groupings, should according to them, not be allowed to express their views on controversial moral issues or even worse, held opposing points of view. Therefore the First Amendment is not applicable to those with a liberal point of view, but is only applicable to the anti-abortion, anti-homosexual groups because they are more equal under the law than others. Such hypocrits !

      wesley.bischoff - 2012-05-02 10:34

      90% of religious people are hypocrites, bigots and just plain moronic

      Kobus - 2012-05-02 10:50

      and 100% of unbelievers are just going to hell :)

      Matthew - 2012-05-02 11:09

      Erm, Kobus, there is no such place as hell. The concept of hell is a psychological prison and torture device that was derived by a parasitic priest-class to keep the plebs in line with fear, coercion and terror, whilst they preyed off their livelihoods, fear and essence. It is a most effective threat of deterrent - even thousands of years after the fact, when science has proved it is all a crock - people are still trembling at the hell and devil bogey man. Such good sheep you all are. And your shepherd is a sick bigotted tyrant.

      Felix - 2012-05-02 11:17

      @Kobus, no we're going to die and rot in the ground like everyone else.

      James - 2012-05-02 11:45

      What hell? It does not exist

      mbossenger - 2012-05-02 11:58

      "and 100% of unbelievers are just going to hell :)" - Given the choice between spending eternity in hell and spending eternity with Kobus? Bring on the fire and brimstone.

      wesley.bischoff - 2012-05-02 12:42

      Haha cool, we are all going to a place that doesn't exist. But then again, so are all of you faithful people.

  • Mark - 2012-05-02 10:14

    Weak minded people follow religion fanatically.

  • gerry.pelser - 2012-05-02 10:16

    Ah, religion hating on religion! Gotta love it. WE are right, not you, WE will go to heaven, not you, WE speak for God, not you!

      Matthew - 2012-05-02 10:32

      For a non judgemental forgiving creed, they sure are judgemental and non-forgiving.

  • Kgolane - 2012-05-02 10:18

    Forget petitions....what does the bible say about this???

      thabomtng - 2012-05-02 10:21

      Do not kill.

      wesley.bischoff - 2012-05-02 10:37

      Yeah, the only useful thing the bible could do is provide fuel for fire for those living on the streets. At least it would keep them warm, and not delude them.

      Felix - 2012-05-02 11:19

      Here you go

      James - 2012-05-02 11:50

      Might as well ask what do fairy tales say about this

  • thabomtng - 2012-05-02 10:18

    Some people turn to forget the importance of life. Murder is a murder no matter how u put it. No one should take one's life regardless it's in her womb or not.

      Jaja - 2012-05-02 11:20

      just have to ask, is suicide murder as well and what happens if your baby commits suicide, ie... a miscarriage??

      Jaja - 2012-05-02 11:36

      What does the bible say about murder and abortions??? It approves of it, I could quote you a couple of passages that agree with it. Are you up to the challenge??

  • schalk.vanjaarsveld - 2012-05-02 10:20

    I've said it before and I'll say it again. "Religion is poison"

      gerry.pelser - 2012-05-02 10:31

      nope, there is usually an intidote for poison! :-D

      Matthew - 2012-05-02 10:34

      Particulary nasty and virulent poison, made all the worse by its own inherent self-righteousness.

  • Hudayfah - 2012-05-02 10:34

    If you want to be portrayed as a leader of a certain religion then you should follow and abide by it's rules,teachings and regulations. Bending it for others' pleasure shows you up to be a plastic.

      Guus - 2012-05-02 10:38

      Or following things blindly shows that you are an idiot.

      Hudayfah - 2012-05-02 10:53

      This isn't just following 'things', He claims to believe in the book and that it is from god. So then why do you feel the need to bend the rules? If you feel its from god then its injunctions should then be followed iin totallity not cherry picking as you wish.

      Guus - 2012-05-02 11:11

      Then you are an idiot for following the bible what's the rationale behind condemning abortion but its okay to offer your child as a sacrifice to god. If religion was wrong about the shape of the earth what else could it be wrong about?

      Hudayfah - 2012-05-02 11:25

      Oh wow lets resort to name calling because it shows my level of intelligence. I'm not here to talk about flat earth and all this mumbo jumbo. If you analyze what i'm saying you would understand better. Let me put it to you in more simpler words. Tutu (not me) claims to believe in god and the bible. He also portrays himself to be one of its leaders. If that is the case then why not follow all its injunctions. Or better yet,don't then make as if you are the leader in this religion if you're unwilling to follow its rules and regulations.

      ChronicDJ - 2012-05-02 13:19

      You're forgetting that Archbishop Emeritus Desmond Tutu is retired from being an Archbishop hence, he's been there done that got the hat and t-shirt. Why shouldn't people listen to what a wise old man has to say in a progressive world. No room for progress in your views...should have that checked out.

      Hudayfah - 2012-05-02 13:46

      Has the point i made gone over your head? He believes in god. He believes the book is from god. Then why not stand by everything the book preaches? Why then change your views, thereby going against what (according to him) god says? He's buckled under pressure. He has forgone his principles. It is then not christianity, it's his own cherry picking religion he made up.

      ChronicDJ - 2012-05-02 16:14

      it's called living in the world and making your own opinions about it. living according to an out-dated (and probably fictional) book make much less sense than "cherry-picking" ideas that hold more truth regardless of their origin than one source of (mis)information. Disagreeing with an opinion is one thing. But trying to prevent people from obtaining their own information or belief system is a violation of human rights.

  • Vincent - 2012-05-02 10:35

    Ppl get more and more confused! Democracy in Religion??? Never...only in Politics! What d Blackbook says...shouldn't b changed!

  • Adil Smit - 2012-05-02 10:40

    Can't help wondering how these anti-abortion students view the sexual abuse by priests of boys - hopefully they are just as outspoken about that.

      kensong.ben - 2012-05-02 10:48

      Muted by the vatican ..itz a classified topic. lol

  • Gieljam - 2012-05-02 11:02

    These so called enlightened preachers are no teachers they are cheaters .......beware many will come over as people of the light who do right but they will soon be exposed as people of night.

  • George - 2012-05-02 11:12

    @Andrew, the killing of gays had to stop. And the abortion issue was debated and agree upon. And in SA if majority of people believe that abortion should be allowed, then we allow it. And we all live by the decision we took as a collective. Gay killing had to stop and woman should be allowed to decided on their bodies man on their balls. If you have a problem with that roll over and die.

      Will - 2012-05-02 11:23

      Funny how the people thats against abortion doesn't blink when other members of society (foreigners , gays , lesbians) are killed....

  • watsongeorgejan - 2012-05-02 11:26

    One of my favourite quotes is by Voltaire: \I DISAPPROVE OF WHAT YOU SAY BUT, I WILL DEFEND TO THE DEATH YOUR RIGHT TO SAY IT !

  • Nyiks11 - 2012-05-02 11:29

    not surprised at all , after all he is the dalai lama of SA

  • Khetha Hlophe - 2012-05-02 11:43

    How possible a human judging another using the same code of conduct n materials R we allowed to judge.

  • Toofaan - 2012-05-02 11:52

    This may not be the forum for it, but there seem to be tons of people here who want to insist that nothing should change. Please tell me why countless pastors and preachers have told me that I will not go to Heaven because I'm not Christian, but a Christian sinner can be absolved by confession and enter. This despite me being a pretty good and decent man. If you say you respect all religions, surely coercion to convert others and not listening to opposing views is actually disrespect ? In modern times, if we are to really live in Harmony, we have to truly respect everyones view including Tutu. And after that everyone can decide for themselves what path to follow. Is that really so difficult ?

  • mike.bishton - 2012-05-02 12:00

    If you don't agree with same-sex marriage, don't get one. If you don't agree with abortion, don't get one.

      Bless Boswell - 2012-05-02 13:19

      Mike, for some reason, some people out there think they should determine how others live and love. What they have not thought through properly is that they actually have no right to dictate how people live their lives. Abortion, while sad, might be the best solution to some unwanted pregnancies - only those with the problem on their hands should actually have the right to do, or not do.

  • Crracker - 2012-05-02 12:13

    Attention needs to be drawn to a very simple fact of two. Miscarriages are common. It is nothing else but divine abortion. So it is fine for god to abort. The little souls of course are still contaminated by original sin? Let's not sidestep reality. Death of babies and infants after birth due do cancer and other natural causes? Careful, one can easily classify it as divine murder too. Where are the responses to the comments that point out the strange illogical and immoral laws in the bible? The faithful just ignore the comments and carry on with their sick propaganda. It makes no sense to try to circumvent the comments pointing out the strange laws with the argument that the New Testament introduced a new covenant - a huge lie anyway. The reality is that those silly and cruel laws were in force by allegedly god's command. Once more we see how the same source material used for the same religion can make people of the same faith bitter enemies and even killers of each other. Still we others who see through all the nonsense are told we must turn into believers.

  • Louis - 2012-05-02 12:18

    Its amazing how many people commenting on this article seem to think that their opinions are correct and the students are wrong. They have their opinion, and many others have alternative opinions. It is their right to think this way and your right to think otherwise. It is no one's right to say their opinion is wrong or your's is wrong. You may just be speaking from a different perspective, background or upbringing.

  • Loo - 2012-05-02 12:36

    hehehe it seems that not all countries have 12 languages, 100 political parties and 400 religions :)

  • Trevor - 2012-05-02 12:47

    The people at the university would have done their research on the Arch long before asking him to speak - it's a university after all. Research is was they do. Let's assume then that the university knows full well what his stance on abortion and homosexuality, but have asked him to speak on purpose. This show of tolerance of other views without necessarily condoning them opens a way for inter-religious dialogue, which has been something that both the Anglicans and Catholics have been discussing for some time. This dialogue allows for new exchange in ideas and possible new common ground between the two faiths. What if this controversy is nothing more than a storm in a tea cup.

  • Chumscrubber1 - 2012-05-02 13:19

    Backward people ...

  • Lerato - 2012-05-02 13:42

    What happened to freedom of association, these guys don’t want to associate with gays and abortionists so why not leave them alone. It’s like forcing alcohol to a mosque or forcing the bible to atheist, he must go to people who subscribe to his values, no wonder why Mugabe calls him- The little evil bishop!

      thozi - 2012-05-02 14:25

      et tu, Lerato?

  • Greg - 2012-05-02 13:51

    All Christians, I believe, should be able to discern Divine law through sacred scriptures and the natural order of creation (Natural law). Thus, the command "thou shalt not kill", for the faithful is unambiguous. Therefore, for a Christian to support the taking of life inside or outside the womb is contrary to this Divine law, not matter how prominent that person may be on the world stage. Divine / Natural law would also question the wisdom of accepting same sex unions and actually promoting such. Secularists will not understand or grasp Divine / Natural law as this impinges on their hedonistic and carnal desires that are manifested as rights. These same secularists would want their (from a Christian perspective) perverse reasoning to undermine Divine wisdom and in a sense coerce right thinking people to get caught up in their psycology. Christians are being told "abortion is ok, accept it" or "same sex unions are ok, accept it". OK by whoses standard?? Any baptised Christian, including high profile fugures such as Tutu, who cast doubt and aspersion on Divine law, are by Christ's own definition false prophets who do not speak in the name of God.

  • Rob - 2012-05-02 16:58

    TUTU up there with 'Madiba'. Go 'Bish'- forget about your critics. And yes I am a 'whitey'.....

  • arroyoribera - 2012-05-07 07:38

    It is important to give this story some context. Spokane is a geographically isolated US backwater. It is a town where a homeless man in a wheelchair was burned to death a few years ago. It is 92 percent white. Its name and its land and its river where stolen from the tribes that originally inhabited it and plaques and monuments in the city and its surroundings still refer to them as "hostiles". It is a town where the police are notoriously corrupt, brutal (google Spokesman-Review Otto Zehm) and unrepentent. Gonzaga is a Jesuit University which recently hosted Colombian Ingrid Betancourt which gave Gonzaga's president the opportunity to use cold war anti-communist rhetoric directed at the conflict in Colombia and a forum to attempt to salve her troubled soul while never once mentioning the millions of internally displaced in her country or the some 9000 prisoners of conscious and dissent in Colombia's prison system. Racial profiling by Spokane Police is the norm as is a disproportionate level of tasering and jailing minorities of color. Currently the people of Spokane are learning that drones are now flying over our community (as they are increasing over the rest of the US) and experiencing the corrupt and abusive Border Patrol in our communities, not for immigration enforcement but rather in routine joint enforcement with our corrupt and abusive local police. My statement: Welcome to my hometown Desmond Tutu! We need you and your voice in this land of intolerance.

  • willie.bosman.7 - 2013-02-23 07:24

    Why? It is now been proven over and over that the Catholic church supports same sex relationships. They even have their own pedophile ring in the vatican, that is why the latest Pope resigned.

  • luna.moon.5243817 - 2013-02-23 08:18

    It is simply because he does not actually "like" jews

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