Police not manipulating stats - Sotyu

2012-10-19 08:15

Johannesburg - The police ministry does not manipulate crime statistics as they are calculated in line with international standards, Deputy Police Minister Maggie Sotyu said on Thursday.

"To create an impression that the police are manipulating the stats is not only downright irresponsible, it could also mean that distracters [sic] will never be happy when this ANC-led government is actually making good progress in providing safety to all South African inhabitants," she told Parliament.

Crime researchers questioned the validity of statistics showing a decline in serious and violent crimes for 2011/12 when statistics were released in September.

There were declines in all seven categories of contact crime - murder, attempted murder, sexual offences, assault with intent to do grievous bodily harm, common assault, aggravated robbery, and common robbery.

Sotyu said all figures were calculated as ratios per 100 000 of the population, in line with international practice.

"This is done to equalise our population growth and be able to scientifically compare provinces of different sizes with each other."

Victims of Crime Survey

She said the police ministry delivered the statistics with "full cognisance" of the police's problems.

The police ministry took the Victims of Crime Survey (VOCS), published by Statistics SA, seriously in order to improve, she added.

"Any good democracy like ours does need good statistical data to identify and measure patterns and trends of criminal activities.

"But, statistical data is not the only measure for solving crime, because over-emphasising the importance of crime statistics inevitably leads to politicising the interpretation of this data, resulting [in] narrow and dramatised questioning of the data."

The VOCS was conducted from January to December 2011. Sotyu said it endorsed the validity and credibility of crime statistics.

"VOCS 2011 will be a rich source of information to assist... in the planning of crime prevention as well as developing sharper policies and strategies."

  • larry.piggott1 - 2012-10-19 08:21

    Of course they dont manipulate, they just make dockets disappear. No Docket, no Crime.

      art5SA - 2012-10-19 08:32

      What I find strange is the fact that in the area of my SA home in Durban, I and all my neighbours are aware of the amount of House Breaking taking place DAILY.... yet the "STATS" recon only 40 have occured in the past year?????????????? HTF did they get those figures?

      kala.bafazi - 2012-10-19 08:47

      Art5SA I too have read of an alarming escalation in house breaking in the Durban North area.

      kala.bafazi - 2012-10-19 08:49

      You don't need to manipulate stats if they are incorrectly gathered at the very start. No person in their right mind can honestlt believe that crime figures are lower.

      alan.jerrold - 2012-10-19 09:00

      A good motto to follow is: 'If the ANC says it, I don't believe it.' Simple.

      paul.bester.50 - 2012-10-19 09:09

      Farm killings is not included into the stats cos its not considered crime !!!

      gary.bloom.967 - 2012-10-19 09:24

      Maybe they don't manipulate the reported numbers, but I have been with a friend who had his passport stolen during the 2010 SWC and the Police officer refused 3 TIMES!!!! to give him a case number and claiming that there is no need to report it. Only after I threatened to take this higher did he give in. Sorry SAPS is cooking the books, fullstop!

      Desilusionada - 2012-10-19 09:37

      "distracters [sic] will never be happy when this ANC-led government is actually making good progress in providing safety to all South African inhabitants," We should be happy? This is the sentence that proves she is talking absolute rubbish. THEIR own statistics prove that the decline in murder in SA has been minuscule.......

      jordaanhp - 2012-10-19 09:41

      My friend was pulled over and robbed by a police officer in George, Western Cape on Human Rights Day! He was pepper-sprayed and told "now see if you can read my number plate ha-ha!". He opened a case and was told that every vehicle had a tracker system, meaning it would be really simple to find out which police vehicle was at that location at that time. Seven months later: nothing. Not even the local newspaper wanted anything to do with the story. I wouldn't let a police officer inside my house. You must be retarded if you believe crime has declined. It's clear as day that it's gotten worse. You and I can see it for ourselves.

      denise.ryan.5203 - 2012-10-19 09:58

      denise.ryan.5203 - 2012-10-19 10:24

      So the Murder stats are down hey... CASES ARE DOWNGRADED (i.e. offences were recorded as less serious than had been reported) OR ARE NOT RECORDED AT ALL. Police are instructed not to record criminal complaints unless the suspects were immediately available or facts easily ascertainable. Unrecorded dockets were allegedly kept aside in a separate room and eventually burnt.

      amelia.basson - 2012-10-19 14:29

      NOW, WHO SHALL WE BELIEVE .... According to South African Police Services: Murders 60 per DAY. According to Department of Home Affairs: Murders 83 per DAY. According to Medical Research Council: Murders 89 per DAY According to Interpol claims: Murders 149 per DAY. NOT A SINGLE ONE ON SABC TV AND ... SOTYU DON'T FORGET MANY CRIMES AREN'T REPORTED ANYMORE, BECAUSE WE ALL KNOW IT'S A WASTE OF TIME!

  • sxp - 2012-10-19 08:21

    To speak is free and to believe or not believe as well. In this case, I do not believe.

      alan.jerrold - 2012-10-19 09:04

      tsotsibaby, so you apparently would justify billions stolen from the poor by ANC head honchos? And if you deny this has happened please reply in a post and I will give you at least 20 examples - or more if you wish. We are not anti-ANC because they are Black - we are anti them because they are corrupt and horribly incompetent, having given top jobs to 'cadres'. Not the way to run a modern country.

      summer.mackenzie.96 - 2012-10-19 09:15

      crawl back under the rock u came from tsotsi cz u all by yourself with those comments...and with a name like that you are probably one of the criminals that hasnt been caught yet and thats why you dig this government - you get away with it

      john.morreira.9 - 2012-10-19 09:20

      tsotsibaby,stop using your computer,the internet and any other "white" inventions IMMEDIATELY !!

      summer.mackenzie.96 - 2012-10-19 09:33

      lol john

      Desilusionada - 2012-10-19 09:44

      This Tsotsi is a 50 year old has-been, despite his FB picture. The Police's own statistics show that the murder rate has declined minimally, yet he claims it is anti-ANC agenda at work. It takes a black person apparently to have to make the same comment for it to become believable. Oh and he is so clever he can decide for all people (based on race of course!), who is the "enemy" While he is his own worst enemy.........

      BigChiefPlumbPudding - 2012-10-19 11:22

      tsotsibaby - After all we have experienced with the ANC on an almost daily basis, to not be anti ANC would seriously raise question regarding one's IQ. Of course we're anti ANC - that goes without saying. Anyone with some basic moral fibre, reasonable intelligence and just the slightest dash of integrity will by default be anti ANC. Regarding crime stats - rubbish. The statistics are not accurate for whatever reason, whether deliberately manipulated or not, they are not accurate.

  • djim.bie - 2012-10-19 08:25

    Bull twang!

      SharonE - 2012-10-19 08:47

      Why are they telling us? They should tell this to the victims who will never see justice, because their cases were never acknowledged!

  • Andrea - 2012-10-19 08:26

    Yet in a previous article we are informed that the SAPS do not regard domestic violence serious enough to tend to ... at the very least this can be added to sexually motivated offenses as well as assault? So the stats are correct then, really?

  • joe.farmer.92775 - 2012-10-19 08:27

    you get Lies, Damn Lies and then Statistics

      sedick.gydien - 2012-10-19 11:15

      Liars, blatant liars, and then you get the ANC......

  • ludwe.kolwapi - 2012-10-19 08:28

    Ya... and I once caught a great white shark with my bare hands

      summer.mackenzie.96 - 2012-10-19 08:37

      Now thats a good stat :)

  • summer.mackenzie.96 - 2012-10-19 08:30

    I do think there are very few people that will believe this - the fact that they dont respond to domestic violence clearly means that the stats are not accurate

  • mholthuysen - 2012-10-19 08:32

    Quite right - as the cANCer government does not even know what statistics are, and to compile accurate statistics one would have to add up... I doubt anyone of the cANCer clowns knows how to calculate, except if it goes in filling ones own pockets....

      summer.mackenzie.96 - 2012-10-19 08:36

      Well said

  • braamc - 2012-10-19 08:32

    Lies incompetence, corruption, theft all in your ranks of this ANC government.

  • hendrik.andries.5 - 2012-10-19 08:37

    2 Things about crime : 1. We are crime 'fit' in S.A., meaning we are so used to it 2.Crime is taking away our freedom,in the apartheids era you could play in the street, but now..................

  • nicolas.gombert.16 - 2012-10-19 08:38

    Deny! Always the first response to criticism, second one is to blame Verwoerd and then to blame the complainers as being racist. So predictable, I don't need any statistician.

  • Tobie Vd Vyver - 2012-10-19 08:41

    and the government is probably not corrupt either...

  • warwick.railton.7 - 2012-10-19 08:43


  • yvonne.joseph.1612 - 2012-10-19 08:47

    They most definitely are wrong with their manipulated calculations - just so the outside world cannot see how really bad the situation is in this country!

  • gary.doyle.520 - 2012-10-19 08:47

    That's the thing with this goverment, they lie to us knowing that that we know that they are lying and it does not bug them.

  • Vince.York - 2012-10-19 08:50

    Ho ho ho and Santa also comes once a year! Like the racist ANC delivers once every hundred years too.

  • gerrit.vanpletzen - 2012-10-19 09:06

    No, they do not manipulate stats. What they do is to make it impossible to report a crime, by not coming when you call them, using the excuse that there are no vehicles to attend to your complaint, for one. If you go to the police station, you are often helped in English so pathetic that you realise that your complaint will get nowhere, so you give up in disgust. They also give you free legal advice, dissuading you from pursuing your compaint, often claiming that you do not have a complaint, or ignoring you, talking on their cellphones, or sleeping on the job.

  • gerrit.vanpletzen - 2012-10-19 09:09

    Tsotsibaby, your puerile and childish comments show that is just what you are, a tsotsi with the mind of a spoilt baby. Suck on your thumb, you infantile little racist.

      Andrea - 2012-10-19 09:58

      I second that!

  • ingrid.oberholzer - 2012-10-19 09:12

    When I was held up with a gund to my head outside a customers premises and my cell phone and purse was taken, I went to report it to the police and was told if I don't have the SIM serial number I can;t report the crime. My phone was 8 years old and the box inwhich it came was thrown out so the crime was not reported.

  • Karel du Toit - 2012-10-19 09:13

    Tried to phone 10111 after being attacked. phone got dropped 3 times and then it was not answered after that. Please give us the stats on phone calls dropped and ignored.

  • denzil.davan - 2012-10-19 09:22

    The easiest way that SAPS uses to "Manipulate Stats" is to get complainants not to open cases. Crime Stats are based on Cases Opened. If the Complainant doesn't open as case, then a case is not registered. SAPS uses the following methods to not register cases. 1. "Do you have Insurance ? Insurance only needs a Reference number for your phone . We will make an entry in our Occurance Book and give you an OB Number." 2. "You don't want to open a case for that R100 Cellphone. We will never be able to find it." - Eventhough a gun was put against your head, and Armed Robbery is dangerous. 3. "You realise that a case will take up to 2 years to conclude. Will you be able to go to court every month for two years. " 4. "You will have to point out and identify the suspect that pointed that gun at you. We dont have two way glass to protect your identity." 5. "We have recovered your car. If you open a case then we have to take the car to the pound to get fingerprints. They will strip it there." Now you tell me that the State is not "manipulating" stats.

  • neo.motsepe - 2012-10-19 09:26

    Sick and tired of ANC-led government, its puppet departments and institutions.

  • kimard - 2012-10-19 09:26

    yes you do - you are doing it since 1994! that goes for all stats

  • mike.burrows.37 - 2012-10-19 10:13

    The easy way to resolve this would be to setup a Web Page that would allow you to enter a case number and it would show you the area it was in and the classification of the crime. That way individuals would be able to see if thier case has been included correctly in the stats

  • luke.dekoker - 2012-10-19 10:30

    Maggie Sotyu you must be living on another plannet by saying that this CancER-led government is actually making good progress in providing safety to all South African inhabitants!!

  • osama.pascal - 2012-10-19 11:09

    They do. We know it. They even go all out to arrest ladies of the night in Roesbank for prostitution and ordinary citizens for loittering. That my friend is counted as \arrest stats\.

  • petr.valcik1 - 2012-10-19 11:19

    Why would anyone need to manipualte stats when the 10111 number doesn't record or investigate something like 57% of all the cases? I stand under correction but I believe those were the stats published a few weeks ago.

  • RyanG - 2012-10-19 12:52

    Sure they not, just as CPI is not distorted either.

  • amelia.basson - 2012-10-19 14:20

    NOW, WHO SHALL WE BELIEVE .... According to South African Police Services: Murders 60 per DAY. According to Department of Home Affairs: Murders 83 per DAY. According to Medical Research Council: Murders 89 per DAY According to Interpol claims: Murders 149 per DAY. NOT A SINGLE ONE ON SABC TV AND OOPS!... DON'T FORGET MOST CRIMES AREN'T REPORTED BECAUSE WE THE PUBLIC KNOW, WE'RE WASTING OUR TIME!!

  • erena.slabbert - 2012-10-20 11:33

    Julle kan stry tot julle blou is in die gesig, sit lekker met julle sekuriteit waarvoor ons betaal en wil ons dan kom vertel van statistiek. Geen waarheid in die SAPS statistiek nie. Ek w

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