Pretoria will become Tshwane - mayor

2011-11-22 11:33

Pretoria - By the end of 2012 Pretoria will be renamed Tshwane, irrespective of the cost or opposition to the move, mayor Kgosientso Ramokgopa has said.

Ramokgopa said Pretoria's name change, as well as changing the names of 21 streets to those of struggle heroes, would happen before the end of 2012, the Pretoria News reported on Tuesday.

"We are going to be resolute and stubborn in ensuring that our history is recorded correctly because our brave heroes paid the ultimate price," he was quoted as saying.

He spoke on Monday at the unveiling of the names of 13 victims - who were shot dead during a 1985 protest against high rents – on the city's Wall of Names at Freedom Park.

Ramokgopa said he did not care about what the media reported about the costs related to the name changes as no amount of money was too much for "recording history correctly".

  • chene.jansen - 2011-11-22 11:38

    Pretoria should stay Pretoria!!!!

      Foc - 2011-11-22 11:43

      The rule should be: You should be allowed change ANY name provided your service levels and financial performance is up to standard... then you can do what the hell you want!! These people simply do not understand what they are there for!!! So sad ....

      Tshifhiwa - 2011-11-22 12:18

      That’s ANC for you, that money can be used to repair the roads, build houses for the poor, and other important things, why can’t ANC pigs think outside the box for a change mara hey? Mxa.

      Daniel - 2011-11-22 12:23

      Has nobody told this man that he is not the owner of Pretoria, YOU SIR ARE A PUBLIC SERVANT !! Pretoria will always remain Pretoria to me, call it whatever you want to !!

      Ronald - 2011-11-22 12:23

      If they change the name of Pretoria I will still send my VAT cheques to an address in PTA and so it shall stay. If they don't get my money, not my fault! The name change will not erase the founding, growth and existence of Pretoria. Honour the struggle heroes and BUILD SOMETHING NEW THAT THEY CAN BE PROUD OF.Or, mayor Kgosientso Ramokgopa, are you incapable of building something by yourselves without screwing it up. It's like buying Jonny Walker Whiskey in bulk and selling it as Malema's Hooch. At least the Japanese has the decency to copy a good idea, then build and name it as their own.

      Spyker - 2011-11-22 12:26

      The draconian fascist regime pigheadedly persists, so - LET THE WAR BEGIN..! Pretoria was in fact named after one Struggle Hero - ie Andries Pretorius. These heroes were men and women of the highest moral integrity and not the terrorists that will replace their names, under the force of fascist, black nationalist regime. But the ANC's hate for the said heroes is tangible. They foam rabidly at the mouth when they speak about bona fide heroes. They hate them due to deep-rooted insecurities. They hate them as they can- and will never be like them. Andries Pretorius was a strong, tall, distinctly attractive individual. A sharp wit and a natural leader. His ability to think on his feet, combined with a level of creativity that was thousands of years ahead of his adversaries, meant he could command a handful and triumph with odds of 10:1 and greater. This is what the ANC hates with a psychotic mania. In their rage of inhibited cognitive capacity, they are convinced their glaring inferiority will somehow disappear if- and when they cover up history (much akin to their current attempts to muzzle the media). The reality is rather, they simply underscore their glaring inadequacies and the reason they have never defeated their most hated enemy on the battlefield.., not even remotely... While a name may seem trivial to some, the call for “WAR” the ramblings of a twisted mind, shall I remind you how the systematic ethnic cleansing of eg the Jews under the Nazi’s started.

      jruppersberg - 2011-11-22 12:41

      They are not correcting history... they are removing history! In other countries street names are not changed. New streets get new names. Name new streets after your so called heroes and leave the old historical names as it is Kgosientso. You are not only pissing off a lot of people but also wasting a huge amount of taxpayers money.

      chris.debeer1 - 2011-11-22 12:57

      Appogies for Apartheid, the invention of the Wheel, Commercial Farming, Mining,the creation of infrastruture and for being White. It is Great if a Black man fights for his people Eg Jesse Jackson but show me one white that defends his group and he is a RACIST NO BRAIN PIG!! We whites are so sorry to be alive it is scary!! I am not a racist but I am tired to be blamed for al the Ills of Africa.You build it you name it OK!! Pretoria is at the Hart of Afrikaner History ZAR but we weak whites to pathic and apologetic for creating the ONLY Sub Sahara economy that worked and grew Dispite Aunti winnie match box and bleeding hart liberals santions. Now you bleeding hart liberals must enjoy your press freedom and new names You got what you wanted Just like Dumm Ass Piet Retief!!!

      Willie - 2011-11-22 14:26

      Leningrad back to St Petersburg Lourenço Marques back to Maputo Popular Burma now known as Myanmar Rhodesia to Zim Mesopotamia morden day Iraq So whats wrong with Tshwane that's the original name

      Peter - 2011-11-22 14:42

      Why not change all the names to "Banana Republic" to reflect the actual history going on....

      Spyker - 2011-11-22 15:36

      Willie, The inconvenient truth is.., What is today known as Pretoria (originally Pretoria Philadelphia) was a town/city build as the consequence of a conscious decision by the Voortrekkers. There was nothing but a feral wilderness and they created it, nobody else.., they did it. For a hundred thousand years before them nobody did anything with the land, they came and created something out of nothing – destroying its history, is simple theft. By explanation: This is then exactly what a thief does. Eg he/she steals you car, it destroys the car (your property/’s) history (by eg erasing the engine no, etc) and then calls it his/her own by giving it a new identity and deriving benefit from it – get it..? Julius Malema said it – “the ANC had not created a single city”. It steals and destroys – nothing else. Just look at Pretoria’s bus service for instance. “Tshwane” is the name of a very small/short river, it starts about 7km from its mouth in the Pienaars River, at Makapanstad. It has nothing to do with Pretoria - as said, Pta was built from NOTHING.

      Willie - 2011-11-22 15:49

      @ Spyker_May No my friend i think you got it wrong,you see normaly history is been written by the victors.Whe i was at primary school in the sixties during geography lessons we used to be told that the name of Pretoria in sesotho is Tshwane now bear in mind that those books were written by some afrikaans professor.i have to agree with the professor because long bfore andries there were a group africans who were under the rule of King Tshwane.So we need to come to some sort of agrement of how i we going to deal with this challenge.

      Spyker - 2011-11-22 16:07

      Hey WILLIEluisternie.., If there was ever a time you should have slept in class, it was evidently during the "geography lessons", you mention. The fact of the matter is, there was NEVER a "...King Tshwane..." - it is all nationalistic propaganda and emphatic, utter far fetched rubbish. I challenge you here today, to deliver bona fide archaeological proof that such a person existed. Note: propaganda written under the auspices of a government is definitely NOT it. If my children are ever taught the rubbish you mentioned then I will sue whoever is responsible. So WILLIEhoornie , I am sorry, no "...some sort of agrement(sic)..." in this case, just hard, clinical FACTS. HISTORY IS AN ABSOLUTE. Viz NOBODY can change it. Not the falsifications of the supposed victors (whom in this case are as far from being the 'victors' as Robert Mugabe is from walking on the surface of Mars with his Zimmer-Frame) or the fake propaganda of a fascist black nationalist regime, can change history... Get it..?

      Willie - 2011-11-22 16:50

      @ Spyker_May -No boet you cannot say i was sleeping in class,why do you want me to believe your side of history,Give me evidence of King Tshwane never existed.You and i we have to debate rationally i'm not interested in people who stoop.Kom boet

      Schalk - 2011-11-22 17:00

      @Peter, Why not change all the names to "Banana Republic" to reflect the actual history going on.... Even babanas have pride...

      Spyker - 2011-11-22 19:05

      Eish WILLIEdinkie.., How can you provide evidence that something does NOT exist..? Evidence lies in corporeus de facto of a matter - iow the onus is prove material existence, else boet, it does not exist. In return, you do not prove something does not exist, you prove that the evidence that something supposedly exist, is invalid, incorrect, etc.

      clayton.blaauw - 2011-11-22 19:08

      So to catch a thief you need to think like a thief. Since the majority of the middle east is "uprising" why don't we. For yours all we have done in SA is talk and complain and individualy acted on our beliefs, but never really making progress. Why have the black majority always been successful with their marches and strikes? BECOZ THEY ALL STICK TOGETHER. If they can march, strike and toytoy for every little thing why don't us EDUCATED BUNCH start doing the same thing? Whats good for the goose is good for the gander. At a point the blacks were the underdogs and being harrassed and our predessors where controlling the strings. NOW instead of bright black spark Zuma and crew completely wiping out that streak, they have reversed the roles and are controlling the strings while whites and many "impoverished" and uneducated poor black people are being harrassed and denied. EPHONY......LETS change the roles again, lets act like the majority, chant and strike and OVER THROW THE GOVERNMENT. Becoz the advantage we have is that if all goes sour, at least we are still highly educated and can be useful internationally while still leaving the toxic waste behind, but we can say we didn't leave without a fight. And about the info bill? Let the silence the media - they will soon see that the ANC will not grace the front pages anymore as the clever journalists won't bother to write and the ANC won't get the free propoganda distributed - see how forward thinking the ANC are - losers

      rowen.loretz - 2011-11-22 19:11

      Call Pretoria whatever the %(*# you like...dumb idiot in government... they have nothing better to do with their time... they can all go to hell. Their comrades, their brothers and sisters will still be starving and begging in the new named streets. IDIOTS

  • kenneth.corsar - 2011-11-22 11:40

    well well, so who is getting the tenders to implement these changes....relations or friends. Spend the money on social development you pompous, fat headed, dim wit...........people need housing not shrines to people.......

      Pieter - 2011-11-22 12:06

      MORE corruption to come!!!

      Gloria - 2011-11-22 17:47

      Yes, more corruption to come and we wont know a thing!

  • bernardhill412 - 2011-11-22 11:41

    Dumb, Dumber, Ramokgopa

      Pieter - 2011-11-22 12:07

      Did you thing for one moment he have brains??

  • Debbi - 2011-11-22 11:41

    Typical - "we will do as we like and you (mere citizens) cannot stop us". Imagine if the Info Bill is actually signed into law! They will have more power than any government ever should have and we will have more of this type of arrogant attitude from all in the ruling party.

      StarStruck - 2011-11-22 12:36

      This guy must think that we will just sit by and watch this happen. I feel like camping out in his office for the rest of the year.

      Grant - 2011-11-22 18:22

      Change laws to give themselves ultimate Hitler. But wouldn't it be funny to watch these buffoons try to take over an EDUCATED country. Movies depicting the war would only be found in the comedy sections!

  • Pjeerlr - 2011-11-22 11:41

    Rather they spend the money on providing home for the homeless in PRETORIA than changing a name that has nothing to do with apartheid!!!! STUPID BLOODY MORONS!!!!

  • Danmil - 2011-11-22 11:41

    Why not call it Tshwane / Pretoria and make a final decision at a later stage. this is a win win solution - Danie

  • Omnivore - 2011-11-22 11:41

    Democracy in SA: Three wolves and sheep arguing over what's for dinner.

  • Cuthbert - 2011-11-22 11:43

    Another tender.This time ..... PRINTING NEW STREET NAMES. Another costly burden to taxpayers.

      Pieter - 2011-11-22 12:10

      Lets witheld those tax!

      frans.visserdsb - 2011-11-22 12:11

      Not just that - updating the maps, etc. will also cost a fortune - i get lost looking for streets that no longer exist, because the street names change more often than I change my underpants. It apparently cost Millions to change Jan Smuts to Johannesburg International to OR Tambo on the flight plan programmes... It seems this is a great plan - rather change the name of the street than fix it - if people complain about a pothole on Hans Strydom and you change the name of the street, there is no longer a pothole on Hans Strydom... QED... and next year our rates and taxes will go up again to pay for this stupidity...

  • jordaanjean - 2011-11-22 11:43

    OMG .. build a house for your brothers and create a "history" to be proud of you moron !! You focus on the wrong things. Build roads and streets to name what ever you want. I am amazed every day by the utter stupidity of our leaders. You want to celebrate the freedom fighters by oppressing and segregating certain parts and groups of the country. I can not see the logic in that at all. Really I do not. Explain this to me so that I can understand why you want to do this ? WHY ?!

  • Sky - 2011-11-22 11:44

    That Mr. Mayor, will be a big mistake.

  • NeoAcheron - 2011-11-22 11:45

    Another thing to protest againts! These idiots want to cause upheaval and disorder! Who the f%#$ do they think they are? Just because they're rich and they think they have power, they think they can do anything they want! If its an ungovernable country they want, maybe we should give it to them! KICK THE BASTARDS OUT, WE MAKE THE RULES NOT YOU!!!

      StarStruck - 2011-11-22 12:49

      This major just showed Pretorians that he does not give a damn about anything but making sure the name gets changed. He could have used this media opportunity to voice his concern about many other more serious problems facing the city. Many people are still without homes, water and Eskom. The ANC surely knows how to pick their representatives. I expect a huge uproar against this nonsense. Bloody idiot.

  • Vicky - 2011-11-22 11:46

    I hope they will remember to rename a street after Andries Tatane as well… After all, contrary to popular belief, the history of the struggle and the violence in South Africa did not stop in 1994

      Ronald - 2011-11-22 16:20

      Not to mention Stompie Seipei Moeketsi. When will we see a street with his name on to remind us, as Malema so eloquently put it,"the ANC does not eat its children".

  • ItsJustaRide - 2011-11-22 11:47

    Waste of cash and time that should be spend on more important things, other than that. they can call it "Proes Town" for all I care...

      Vuyo - 2011-11-22 12:14

      Haaa-ha-haaaa!! JustaRide - you're on your sharp side today!

  • Lungani - 2011-11-22 11:47

    I am black person as well but I struggled to remind my parents and grandparents not to call pretoria ipitoli as many old and young people still call it. They always say ipitoli meaning pretoria. You can't force history onto the masses. We have peace as at now with pretoria as the city and Tshwane as the Metropolitan. Why start another division and fight among us. I just can't understand.

      Pieter - 2011-11-22 12:15

      I can't agree more with you. Maybe the major doesn't have enough work to keep him busy.

      Ronald - 2011-11-22 16:21

      Pieter, have a heart. This is the first diversion he could think of to hide him lining his pockets.

  • Coral - 2011-11-22 11:48

    Yes cos changing the name of a city is more important than feeding the people of that city!!! It is changing irrespective of the cost!!!! Wake up you morons!!!!

  • Omnivore - 2011-11-22 11:48

    Why not call it Tshwane-Pretoria? In most civilised places where places have more than one name, both are used. Eg. in Spain's Basque country.

  • Andre - 2011-11-22 11:49

    The arrogance of this despot is amazing. He should rather concentrate on his shockingly poor service delivery and address the poverty of people than making these uniformed statements. How dumb can you be, and that of a person the community should be looking up to? His and likewise minds are warped.

  • Angry_Youth - 2011-11-22 11:51

    You know what... watch this guys. Start being scared.

  • Peter - 2011-11-22 11:54

    It will always be Pretoria no matter what backward name they give it!

  • Marion - 2011-11-22 11:55

    I'm wearing black. "We are going to be resolute and stubborn in ensuring that our history is recorded correctly because our brave heroes paid the ultimate price," he was quoted as saying. Your freedom fighters and heroes 'paid the ultimate price' so that their people could have better living conditions, healthcare, education etc., not so that names could be changed at major cost. You would do better to commemorate their selflessness by building houses and schools and naming those settlements / streets / schools etc., after them. As far as name changes go a rose by any other name would smell as sweet but a hungry belly will become a revolutionary belly. I'm wearing black today but I'm beginning to think I should wear black every day. Mourn beloved country, mourn.

  • mcludeke - 2011-11-22 11:55

    Accept it (Tshwane) and point and laugh at those who are protesting against horrible living conditions as it is the same people who vote the municipal governance into power! Also think about it this way the good memories of Pretoria as the Jacaranda city can no longer be tainted as the name will be recorded in the history books to reflect something to the likes of..."Pretoria, once the administrative capital of South Africa and then known as the beautiful jacaranda city."

      Ronald - 2011-11-22 16:30

      You have a point. Salisbury was known as the garden city of Africa. Now it is Harare and, when I was last there, an absolute dump.

  • Hennie - 2011-11-22 11:56

    Yes and South Africa will be run into the ground until there is nothing left like all the countries to the north of us "irrespective of the cost or opposition"

  • Virginia - 2011-11-22 11:58

    Why are these people so concerned with victems who have been shot in 1985, how many people since 1994 have died invain in this country due to our police force incompetence. Our government and its officials must stop living in a traditional past, this is not feeding our people, they do not require statues to remind them of the power you are seeking, they will vote for you anyway because we have a racial vote in this country so the government does not have to go to so many lengths to incite people to vote for them, they are harrassed enought during elections times. Use the money wisely, our people are suffering out there. Whi the hell worries about a name Pretoria Tshwane name it what you like but get this country back to what it as 20 years ago, you have failed your responsiblities completely as a govrnment.Its about time you started to be leaders of our people and not with our people.

  • JJ - 2011-11-22 11:58

    Who is the majority tax payer in Pretoria and who's money are going to be used? I'm not talking about the residence, I'm refering to those residence that actually pay their taxes. Hypocrite!!!

  • salome.bezuidenhout - 2011-11-22 12:00

    Oh well this city now looks like Tshwane not like Pretoria anymore. The ANC made sure that this beautiful clean city deteriorated into the pile of dirt it became, Thousands of squatters everywhere, doing their private business in the public, (pavement, open area, parks, river beds) oh and the ANC made a big hooohaaa about open toilets in the Cape where the DA rule, at least they made toilets available. Pretoria the city is their toilet. So yes this place deteriorated into Tshwane.

  • Peter - 2011-11-22 12:02

    Another absolute waste of both time and money whilst the municipality is in total disarray and the population being denied basic facilities. Typical ANC fat cats!

  • Con - 2011-11-22 12:02

    " No money is too much to pay for recording history correctly ". Did he ask the poorest of the poor their opinion about this I wonder. You can't eat history, correctly recorded or not.

  • Jak - 2011-11-22 12:03

    "Pretoria will become Tshwane" - We'll see about that...

  • aldridge.roman - 2011-11-22 12:04

    Ramokgopa said he did not care about what the media reported about the costs related to the name changes as no amount of money was too much for "recording history correctly". Is this ass@##hole going to use his own money, don't think so, another one that will be investigated by the Public Protector in time to come.

  • George - 2011-11-22 12:05

    The anc is like the cna, a joke book store

  • PerelFamily - 2011-11-22 12:06

    what saddens me is that the money utilised for name changes should rather be utilised to help the poor in pretoria - how many houses do you think can be built for them with "name change" funds. get a clue Mayor of the Tshwane Municipality.

  • Stanley Lutendo - 2011-11-22 12:07

    Thats madness, why dont he create jobs instead...wasting money al over while there are people in need.

  • Sharmay - 2011-11-22 12:07

    Well the bill is being forced through without consulting us, so why not this... The government just plainly doesn't give a sh*t anymore about anyone else's opinion.

  • tasjaoosthuizen - 2011-11-22 12:08

    WTF? No matter what the cost? Why not rather give the money to the struggling hospitals ...

  • ludlowdj - 2011-11-22 12:09

    The difference between Democracy and Dictatorship in South Africa is a very fine line indeed. But not a problem we are already collecting the names of our hero's of the new struggle......... against the ANC.

  • Marie - 2011-11-22 12:11

    Ja, change the names it suits the dirty city!!!!!

  • phumlanii - 2011-11-22 12:12

    Why everything has to be about politics and freedom fighters? Why can't the street be named after the nature or something else except the struggle and freedom fighting?

      Omnivore - 2011-11-22 13:03

      Simple. It is because liberation movements the world over generally lack the ability to govern and must constantly remind the voting populace that they are still struggling against enemies, real or imagined. The right thing to do would of course be to make way for those who can in fact defeat the real enemies (poverty and corruption) but the "liberatiors" would never do that because for them it's time to get paid.

  • Rob - 2011-11-22 12:13

    By all means change to politically neutral names, and if it must be people there are plenty of non-political personalities. I mean why not 'Johnny Clegg Boulevard'. This will remove what some may consider polarising and offensive history. But if you simply make a change such as Jan Smuts to O R Tambo all you are doing is preparing the way for another set of costly changes when the ANC is pushed out of domination. Is this really the best that the ANC can do for upliftment of their constituency?

  • George - 2011-11-22 12:17

    Creating Jobs will def put them in the history books

  • Jerhone - 2011-11-22 12:18

    it will only last untill the 2014 elections then business as usual

  • TheSlip - 2011-11-22 12:19

    Hang on . . I don't think you have the authority to do that, Mr Mayor. Oh . . and I guess Gwen just coincidentally share your surname ;-) Go on, rename it . . we'll affectionately refer to it as "Swannie".

  • wesley.bischoff - 2011-11-22 12:21

    Yes because the Khoi-San people referred to the "city" as Thswane. As usual, the ANC has no regard for money. "Let's spend millions on changing a name, and for our centenary party... who cares if the money could have a better use." Morons

  • Ig - 2011-11-22 12:25

    Ja skaap, change it to a "black" name if you want to, since it has turned black and dirty, and grimy snce your take-over. Sure as hell we do not want it to be called Pretoria anymore!!!!~

  • Janniel - 2011-11-22 12:27

    The ANC sees they are in a bit of trouble because of the secrecy act. So waht do they do? Change a few names again. Why else do you thing there's any "old" names left? Remember ANC: There will come a time where all names have been changed, and then you will be left beaten and dead on the side walk..Where you belong..

  • kgalalelo.malesele - 2011-11-22 12:27

    long live tshwane its high time we change this european meaning of our country

      Wally - 2011-11-22 13:39

      Start saying something constructive and uplifting. Start being critical of ur leaders. U need not get rid of them or the party, but @ least start being rational and enlightened, and bring ur leaders 2 the light. This idea of changing from the European way, getting rid of the "Boers", "Afrikaners", "Whites" or who ever else only stir up further hatred instead of creating stability, peace and reconciliation. U will not forfeit the luxuries that came with the Europeans! U will not flatten the cities and towns founded and built by the Europeans! U will not want to be found without the resources emanating from a substantial European influenced agriculture and starve to death, or be reliant upon ur small garden and live from day to day as is the case within the traditional communities in the rural areas, lest u hv forgotten that part of ur history, which is still the way of living at present. Without all of the ingredients put together, this wld not hv been the SA u c today. We r all here to live our lives, make a living. So, stop acting stupid. Rational rather than emotional thinking shld dictate our future.

      chris.debeer1 - 2011-11-22 17:54

      Well as it seems the Euro sentric infrastruture is about to collapse I geuss you can call it Dingaan Stad if you want!!

  • fishycraig - 2011-11-22 12:32

    How about this. Rename those parts of Pretoria that are corrupt, without service and run down Tshwane. Keep the nice areas as Pretoria. And then let's see how many people move from Tshwane to Pretoria.

  • Jessica - 2011-11-22 12:34

    i think it will be the end of the ANC by 2012

  • Abel - 2011-11-22 12:42

    oh cum on white ppl u have WELKOM,BLOEMFONTEIN,PITERMARITZBURG,ROODEPOORT,BETLEHEM,KAAPSTAD,KROONSTAD, RUSTENBURG and many many more u cant cry over and over.

      Abel - 2011-11-22 12:44

      but on the other side its a waste of money

      Jj - 2011-11-22 13:02

      Abel, all those names changed also jou AAP

      chris.debeer1 - 2011-11-22 17:59

      Why not change SOWETO name That was an Apartheid name for a township designed by whites to force blacks into its Full meaning is South Western Township- For black during apartheid sure just like pretoria build by whites but for blacks that should grief you more!! hehehe

  • - 2011-11-22 12:43

    Why don't you take that money that would be ill spent and use it for streets that have no names in informal settlements? Now thats a plan that would make good use of the money, but no all you are after is to change everything the 'white' man created, spending unnecesaary funds and still complain that you don't have any streets with names and blame us again ...

  • Kerzner - 2011-11-22 12:44

    Certainly this guy has no vision of what he's supposed to be doing in office as a mayor. This is not service delivery. He's suppose to know that his Metro is running low on finances and he should be squandering money, but lo nad behold!!!