News24

Probe gay cure arts centre: Ministry

2013-01-18 22:39

Johannesburg - The justice ministry has asked the Human Rights Commission to investigate claims of unfair discrimination at the Creare Training Centre in Bloemfontein.

"We trust the SA Human Rights Commission will be able to use its extensive powers to investigate this matter and to take the necessary and appropriate action," the ministry said in a statement on Friday.

"The notion that a person's sexual orientation can be changed at will, or by compulsion, feeds the very same homophobic attitudes that encourage the criminal and abhorrent practice of so-called corrective rape."

The Sunday Times reported earlier that the Christian arts academy had come under fire for advertising that it could "cure" homosexual students.

According to the centre's prospectus they can "convert" gay students into heterosexuals through "rehabilitation", it reported.

Creare founder Cornelius can Heyningen denied the institution was discriminatory.

"We are catering for those who say 'I want to change as a homosexual' and that's not saying no homosexuals are allowed," he was quoted as saying.

He compared the academy's stance on homosexuality to a drug rehabilitation programme.




Comments
  • shalomkatekani - 2013-01-18 23:00

    dnt get how its discremination, probe mre serious stuff

      phoenix.px.5 - 2013-01-18 23:46

      During apartheid black people were not forced to join white churches - in fact they were not allowed. White churches used the Bible to support their racist views. Do you also think there was nothing wrong cause black peopled were not forced to join the white church?

      wendy.webb.980 - 2013-01-19 07:39

      Phoenix, during apartheid there were many multi-racial churches. I grew up in one.

      christoffvstaden - 2013-01-19 17:14

      @wendy - you missed the point.

      JoMelGroup - 2013-01-22 14:29

      Hi Phoenixx, I urge you to re-consider your above statement: “White churches used the Bible to support their racist views.” No... Some white churches. God and the Bible both appose apartheid and discrimination, proof of this could clearly be seen when the previous South African government tried to use various church organisations to control both non-whites and whites in the country, especially the Dutch Reformed Church. But hundreds of churches and christian organizations could not support the governments’ policies because they were anti-bible, and anti-God. Even in the Dutch Reformed Church, one of the main messengers for the government, people opposed apartheid.

  • sally.lewitt - 2013-01-18 23:05

    This place must be SHUT DOWN! Its going to, if not already cause a lot of damage to people and their human rights..

      christoffvstaden - 2013-01-19 09:37

      Yes, I agree with you Sally. There is no room for places like these in our country. Christians need to understand that their value system has nothing to do with others and they should stop poking their noses into others' business - otherwise they should not be complaining when gay people are becoming aggressive/militant towards them in an attempt to protect themselves. I truly hope they will shut down as a result of this investigation.

      motlalepula.sompane - 2013-01-19 14:31

      do not utter such words about places of God. It's their mission as communicated by God to them, to cure the gay. Who are you to question the works of God and the great scriptures in the Holy Bible. Everything in the Bible is true, because it says so in the Bible. You Will BURN IN HELL! You best start praying now for forgiveness, and sell all your valuables and give the proceeds to the poor! Amen!

      christoffvstaden - 2013-01-19 17:13

      @motla - Excuse me, but why I am not allowed to "utter such words about places of god" - don't think for one moment that you uttering the word god means, by default, that I am not allowed to criticize christianity and should respect your superstition. I will not burn in hell, as there is no hell you superstitious fart! Lastly, who the f do you think you are to tell me to sell my possessions and give it to the poor. Believe me, if I were to help people financially it will certainly be a gay person - NOT a christian!

      SarcasticAgnostic - 2013-01-19 20:25

      You cannot use passages from a piece of fiction to prove the events in the work of fiction actually happened.

      JoMelGroup - 2013-01-22 15:12

      Hi Sally. During my 30yrs in Bloemfontein Christian circles, I've never heard any church talk about a "cure for homosexuality", as stated by Media and gay groups. I've never heard of anyone being discriminated against in a church or ministry, based on sexual orientation, that's not God's heart. However, what I have witnessed in many churches I've been part of is: people recovering after being raped or sexually molested, I've seen people growing in confidence after being bullied back in their schools-days, I've seen people finding identity after being abandoned or living a life of rejection, I've seen people coming free from drug, alcohol and other addictions, I've seen people nurtured after divorce or death has destroyed their family, I've seen a HIV baby being adopted and given a home, I've seen people clothed and fed, and the down and out rise to start again, this is what God is doing in His churches. His heart is that each of us has a caring support group around us, because many of us have been hurt, discriminated against, mocked, rejected, bullied, betrayed or abandoned. God is in the business of mending hearts, if you've never experienced that in a church, then look and look until you find one that reflects God's heart, then run into His house, you'll find Him in the hearts and faces of His people.

      george.frangs - 2013-01-23 07:49

      JoMel, then why must this "arts centre" make claims/statements like this in the first place?

      JoMelGroup - 2013-01-23 11:57

      Hi george.frangs, like I posted, I've been involved in various churches in Bloem for many years, and have never heard anyone claim a cure for homosexuality, not even the arts centre has ever claimed this, I studied and worked there for many years. The media and gay groups are saying that Creare Training Centre is claiming "homosexual cure"... But where's their proof? Creare has no documentation claiming or advertising this. This does not mean though, that peoples' lives have not been changed. There are several posts here on news24 and other websites, and YouTube (Sy Rogers) and others, from people who say they have changed their sexual orientation after attending Creare, a church, or after a God-encounter, but that has been entirely their experience and choice to change, it is their human right to choose the life they want. If they say that God changed them, then that's between them and God, and they should be supported in their choice.

  • Crracker - 2013-01-18 23:09

    OK. Once more back to basics AND common sense. First of all: What has others sexuality and their preferences got to do with me or anyone else? Buggerall! Secondly: And this is not intended as a demeaning reminder: Go to the many pictures of mixed sexual bodily expression. Double sexual organs and mixed sexual organs for example. All there. Just google. The photos too. Try Wikipedia for example. So much for alleged Intelligent Design. But there the examples are. Expressed in plain bodily manifestation. A matter of choice? Rubbish! Sexuality is simply the outflow of many billions of generations of adjustments in the evolutionary chain. Next point: Why exactly is the sexuality of others such a problem and item of curiosity to some? Especially the religious types? They seem obsessed with it. What exactly is their so-called god's problem with it all? Now bear in mind the ambiguous physical expression of sexuality I referred to above. God then creates the ambivalent physical expression of sexuality. Why should one not accept the plain fact that the same ambivalence is also inherent in the brain or psychological (be careful here, a minefield opens up, but nevertheless no other way of expressing it)set up of people? Just not quite so glaringly observable as the actual physical manifestations one google for if you wish. Keep it basic.

  • ndyeboreginaldmazawule - 2013-01-18 23:11

    We are catering for those who say 'I want tochange as a homosexual' and that's not saying no homosexuals are allowed,. This is somehow funny to me because these people are actually trying to change the way we see things, think of it this way: what if some gay people really want to change or fight their being homosexuality sex orientation or whatever ey? There is no discrimination here at all

      madmountainza - 2013-01-19 00:57

      What a load of bull, no discrimination my r's. Your founder compares homosexuality to a drug addiction which can be rehabilited. Do you also cure people who are addicted to other religions, like Muslims and Hindus - you're a bunch of racist nutters. Is this like Alcoholics Anonymous, "Hi my name is Dave and I am a homosexual". "Welcome Dave, please report to shock therapy room No.1 tomorrow morning for your first lesson, after that we will give you a tour of our facility starting with the Eunuch center for terminal patients" You say, "what if some gay people really want to change or fight their being homosexuality sex orientation or whatever ey?" I can only think of one reason people would want to fight their sexual orientation, because bigots like you keep telling them it's wrong to think that way. Why not move onto bigger things, maybe you also can start trying to cure people who think that they're the wrong colour.

      SarcasticAgnostic - 2013-01-19 10:03

      ndyeboreginaldmazawule: Why does that homosexual want to change? Have you asked yourself that? He is treated as scum by his neighbors/church/parents.

      valkerie.koekemoer - 2013-01-19 11:13

      @ndyeboreginaldmazawule : Please cite your sources that proves homosexuality is an addiction? Please don't regurgitate the propaganda drivel you've been fed by these and their ilk - they're lying to you! Check out the facts for yourself, or you'll be ripped a new one (no pun intended) by rational folk everywhere.

  • Flippncool - 2013-01-18 23:12

    What a bunch of retards.

  • Crracker - 2013-01-18 23:18

    Although one must question what it has to do with the ministry if state funds are not being used. Is it state funds?

      Medocxes - 2013-01-19 07:58

      protection of human right.

      clairesally - 2013-01-20 13:59

      The Creare Academy is not state funded. Human rights are not being infringed. Creare offers a specified service, which incidentally extends far beyond assisting those who desire to convert from homosexuality to heterosexuality, and nobody is forced to make use of those services. The reason why people who resist change are asked to leave is because they can negatively impact those who do want to change and make it more difficult for them to achieve their goals, which is their human right. Would you allow a drug lord to live in a drug rehabilitation centre, knowing that he resists treatment and uses drugs and even offers drugs for sale to people in rehabilitation? I think not! Human rights is a two-way street!

  • tommo.too - 2013-01-19 02:51

    But I want to stay gay. I love being gay. Its me. Why on earth would anyone want to change that?

      Russophillia - 2013-01-19 17:07

      Because gay rights are a western import. They're an affront to indigenous african cultural beliefs.

      christoffvstaden - 2013-01-19 18:39

      @russophillia "Because gay rights are a western import. They're an affront to indigenous african cultural beliefs." "Christians and christian organisations have housed, clothed and fed millions of homeless and destitute. They are the most charitable people in the world and Africa would be that much poorer if it weren't for their generosity. Its atheists who have nothing better to do except surf the net and post obscenities about people of faith." These 2 remarks of yours sums up just how distorted your thinking is. You fail to see many inconsistencies: Christianity is a Western import and should be an affront to your African culture, if you want to start splitting hair over cultures. Secondly, your culture breeds like rabbits, to such a point that there is no food and jobs for people to live a decent life. BUT yet you expect from Western civilization/christians to take responsibility for the consequences of your sexual behaviour, i.e children. You have no qualm claiming god says we should procreate, yet you are dependent on whites/christians to take care of those kids. Thirdly, I know quite a few white gay couples who have adopted several black kids to provide them with a better life, a life way above the standard that a charity/church could ever provide. Christianity, as any other religion, has to keep there numbers up in order to stay in control politically - feeding the poor is just one way of ensuring votes.

      SarcasticAgnostic - 2013-01-19 20:27

      Cars, computers, cellphones, T-shirts and CD's are western imports. Do those things offend indigenous african cultural beliefs?

      Russophillia - 2013-01-19 22:24

      @Christoffvstaden Firstly. Unlike gay rights, christianity wasn't forced on africans, they accepted it of their own free will. Gay rights are being forced onto ordinary africans by people like you who look down on local customs as savage and backward and think you know what is best for everybody. Secondly. You know nothing of my culture. I'm not even going to bother responding to that racist vitriol. All you did was prove my point by being condescending to blacks and their culture. Thirdly. There you go again with the whole white people are the saviours of black people thing again. Seems to me like all supporters of gay rights are condescending racist christophobes. Chidren should be raised in a heterosexual atmosphere. No one should have two dads or two mums. Its sickening, unnatural and is bad for the child. There's a reason a gay couple can't have biological children together and that's because its not what nature intended.

      christoffvstaden - 2013-01-20 07:51

      @russo - Keep on embarrassing yourself, mate. You were the one who started the Western/African argument. Secondly, you are right, I know very little about your culture, despite having a black boyfriend who can't speak one word of Zulu & lives with me in Sandton. In fact, I should reprimand him for being so racist to his own, as he was the one who brought up the argument about breeding like rats. Thirdly, I am not bothered in being anyone's saviour - I really couldn't care less what white people do, what christians are doing - what you are doing... Saving people is a christian invention - I am not a christian.

  • tommo.too - 2013-01-19 02:53

    But I love being gay!!!

      george.frangs - 2013-01-23 07:57

      Who down votes this?

  • precious.yumyum - 2013-01-19 02:55

    that is the problem with christians. u would swear they have nothing better to do.

      anakin.skyvader.9 - 2013-01-19 09:51

      They don't : when one points out an issue that affects millions of lives, not just a few, they don't know what to say because their suggestions have to come from a magic source, they can't think for themselves... http://www.avaaz.org/en/india_child_labour_g1/?bKMDIdb&v=20360

      Russophillia - 2013-01-19 17:13

      Christians and christian organisations have housed, clothed and fed millions of homeless and destitute. They are the most charitable people in the world and Africa would be that much poorer if it weren't for their generosity. Its atheists who have nothing better to do except surf the net and post obscenities about people of faith.

      christoffvstaden - 2013-01-19 17:57

      @russo - Don't insult intelligent people OK. The only reason the church is feeding the poor is to keep their numbers up and to remain in control. If a church is willing to provide in your basic needs in exchange for your support what will you do? I know the poor, they will tell you anything as long as they can get something out of you. The church is dependent on the poor for their survival!

      Russophillia - 2013-01-19 21:53

      @ Christoffvstaden Have you no compassion? At least they're helping them. Better than you sitting on your big fat lazy boer behind complaining about anc, black people, poor people and christians. A relationship with God is a personal one, nobody is controlling anyone. Your such a snob.

      christoffvstaden - 2013-01-20 07:58

      @russo Stating the obvious, don't you think? Thanks for the entertainment though.

      christoffvstaden - 2013-01-20 08:15

      @russo Oh, you forgot to add "me complaining about homophobic, christian white trash too". Now you will have to excuse me, because my BLACK b/friend and I are on our way to having breakfast at a super snobbish restaurant in Melrose Arch where there are no poor people, and hopefully no christians as they will be feeding the poor in some terrible part of JHB.

      conrad.henney - 2013-01-23 12:32

      this is about a group of people who took one statement in a whole prospectus out of context and turmed it into a discrimination. We are not obsessed with this subject. We have 12 departments with hundreds of subjects. We counsel a wide variety of aspects of life. "ONE" out of those thousands of aspects is helping people "WHO WANT TO CHANGE" their sexual preference. And changing peoples lives for the better "ACCORDING TO THEIR OWN CHOICE" is worthwhile and valuable use of time.

  • gert_swart - 2013-01-19 04:07

    These religiots should be probed. All religion should be probed and banned.

      logical007 - 2013-01-19 09:10

      I'm not sure if religiots will allow themselves to be 'probed'!!!!! But just ignore these freaks of nature! Do not judge and accept people for who they are are not religious peoples motto.

      Russophillia - 2013-01-19 17:34

      gert_swart your line of thinking is one that was shared by mass murderers/persecutionists Stalin, Lenin and Chairman Mao. Friends of yours?

      christoffvstaden - 2013-01-19 18:44

      @Russo - you are confusing a political system with scientific thought.

      clairesally - 2013-01-20 13:47

      @gert_swart: Religion is defined as a set of beliefs or a belief system which a person adopts and according to which he/she aligns his/her behaviour. So that would mean Atheism qualifies as a religion. So we should probe and ban Atheism too, then, according to your theory. Do you advocate a society in which nobody believes anything? A society in which we all just react animalistically to every stimulus, internal or external? In that case: Welcome to chaos! What we believe determines how we behave. That includes you, as your comment illustrates.

  • leon.olivier.92 - 2013-01-19 06:51

    I honestly couldn't care less. Just as I have the right to be gay so does this centre have the right to their doctrine. If you are gay and stupid enough to want to change then go do it. Self delusion has work of stupid people for so long why stop now.

  • nervern - 2013-01-19 07:06

    Ag man...go probe something else! This bull I can't vriet...how is that discriminating? They not forcing anyone to come, only those who wana change. We accept gays but dnt force us to view being gay as something good.

      SarcasticAgnostic - 2013-01-19 10:05

      Why does that homosexual want to change? Have you asked yourself that? He is treated as scum by his neighbors/church/parents.

  • Jaco Grobler - 2013-01-19 07:28

    Firsltly, this is a human rights issue, it could have been the white brothers, black brothers, brothers in christ, or brothers in satan organisations who innitiated this, its not a political or religious issue in the context of this inuquiry. Thus, to those of you who makes it anything else, it simply shows your disregard for other organisations and its members, and its right to exist. To be frank, you are a good candidate to be investigated by the HR comission... Secondly, gay people have the same right to 'help' heterosexuals, if you want to be 'converted' to whichever sexual orientation, its your personal choice ! If anything, these people offers a choice where there never was any, what about the rights of people who are not sure about their sexual orientation and want to explore all avenues ?

      SarcasticAgnostic - 2013-01-19 10:05

      Why does that homosexual want to change? Have you asked yourself that? He is treated as scum by his neighbors/church/parents.

  • juannepierre - 2013-01-19 08:46

    It's like claiming to have a cure for being black, or white. Maybe your not happy as a black, or white, but that's just how you were born. Deal with it.

      Russophillia - 2013-01-19 17:38

      No, its like they're claiming to have a cure for AIDS, deafness, blindness. Some people were born with these ailments too but they shouldn't have to "deal with it" if there's a cure available.

      christoffvstaden - 2013-01-19 18:45

      @Russo - certainly hope when a cure for stupidity becomes available you will be clever enough to take it...

      Russophillia - 2013-01-19 20:26

      @christoffvstaden The feeling is mutual.

      clairesally - 2013-01-20 13:30

      If your claim is true that being gay is genetic, how would you explain why are there so many people who have converted from homosexuality to heterosexuality and live happy, productive, fulfilled lives being what you say they were not born to be?

      conrad.henney - 2013-01-23 12:35

      No one claims to cure anything. Homosexuality is not a disease. But people have the ability to change if they want to.

  • john.thelps - 2013-01-19 08:54

    This centre is for people who sees the sin against God in being gay and want to change. Just because you have no boundaries in your life some people do and if they decide this is what they want then leave them. These guys are not going into the streets and force gays through their doors against their will.

      SarcasticAgnostic - 2013-01-19 10:06

      Why does that homosexual want to change? Have you asked yourself that? He is treated as scum by his neighbors/church/parents.

      clairesally - 2013-01-20 13:26

      @SarcasticHeathen: That may be your personal experience. It is not everyone's personal experience. The world is bigger than just you and what you know and have experienced. Where you find yourself now is not the end, the final destination. There are so many possibilities to explore. So much more to life. So much more good in life than you know about. You should try to find it sometime... You may be pleasantly surprised.

  • anakin.skyvader.9 - 2013-01-19 09:45

    "...Christian arts academy.." Yes..what's new? Why does sexual orientation bother these people so much?? While there is so many other very serious pressing problems in the world, a few select hypocrytical individuals go and waste their time on this nonsense. If they really want to make a difference in the world they must focus on the bigger picture, where millions of lives are affected, eg. http://www.avaaz.org/en/india_child_labour_g1/?bKMDIdb&v=20360 "India is the world’s child labour capital -- kids as young as five are sold to traffickers and forced to work as modern-day slaves, abused and beaten. The historic new bill would ban outright any child labour under 14 and provide stipends for poor families to keep their children in school"

      nicolette.hlakoane - 2013-01-20 08:46

      oh no it doesn't bother anyone but the media n people who are so grounded on human rights. The academy focuses on a whole lot of things, aspects of life, nations etc.... Which out of the many things that they do, everyone makes the least focus bigger than the most focused one: 'Living the dream in Gods heart'

      clairesally - 2013-01-20 13:20

      When I am faithful in changing lives for the better within my immediate sphere of influence with the abilities and resources God has given me, I am successful. Nicolette is right, Creare's work extends far wider than helping people convert from homosexuality to heterosexuality, but it all began at grass roots level. We change society one individual at a time. For those who are have larger spheres of influence, the task lies to impact those areas positively, such as human trafficking, child labour, etc. In my personal capacity I will never change a country's policy on anything by postin comments in newspapers, but if I can reach out to my next-door neighbour and change his or her life for the better by helping them to see and apply a better way, the Way of Life, to know the Giver of Life, Jesus Christ, then I have made a difference that will ripple out to many others. I say again, the way to change a society is one individual at a time.

  • Trevor Moller - 2013-01-19 10:41

    Why sexual orientation bothers this group so is because there is more of these sexsual misfits in religeous sectors than others

  • dave.ueckermann - 2013-01-19 11:14

    Please - What human rights have been violated? Investigate what????????????? If this center believes that they can do what they claim they can, let them be. If people wanna attend its their choice. The problem with HUMAN RIGHTS is that more harm is caused BECAUSE it infringes on the rights of persons with views that differ.

      nicolette.hlakoane - 2013-01-20 08:13

      I highly agree. Human rights, human rights is all we here now how about we heart about Gods hearts, Gods will

      SarcasticAgnostic - 2013-01-20 09:49

      If the sangomas believes they can make miners bulletproof, let them be.

  • grantandberniceclifton - 2013-01-19 11:39

    To all you gay folks commenting, why is it that many of you seem to so easily become what you so passionately hate: Discriminatory? This academy is a completely non-compulsory, non-racial, non-government funded organization who will help people who feel they would like to change. Do they not also have a right to not discriminate, but disagree with a homosexual lifestyle?

      christoffvstaden - 2013-01-19 12:13

      @grantandberniceclifton "help people who feel they would like to change" I will answer your question soon, but first tell what you think the reasons/motivations may be for wanting to change.

      Jose - 2013-01-19 16:55

      Agreed

      clairesally - 2013-01-20 13:04

      @christoffvstaden: Just because I do something doesn't mean I believe it to be right. People don't binge eat or abuse alcohol or molest little children or compulsively steal or cheat on their spouse because they believe there is nothing wrong with it. Most of them either seek help or try to hide these behaviour patterns because THEY believe their behaviour is wrong, but they don't know how to change it. A person can come to believe that what they are doing or how they are behaving is wrong and seek to change it, that's perfectly normal. Yes, there are those (including myself) who will tell those who ask them their beliefs regarding sexual orientation, that homosexuality is wrong because we believe that God did not create us that way and that personal hurt and brokenness causes people to believe they are gay, but there are also many people who are outspoken about their belief that there is nothing wrong with homosexuality and that it is something to be embraced. Every one of us can choose whom they will agree with, and which viewpoint we believe, and that is our right.

  • clifton.d.jones.9 - 2013-01-19 20:37

    I was down and out - and God used this Academy and it's leadership to encourage me, challenge me and restore me. I, have now been with the Academy for 16 years and know we are not perfect but know that we are not discriminatory - as stated, the requirements are the focus on a small group of full time students that come voluntarily with the focus on change - the other - 5000 part time students are in a completely different training programe. We do not stand for strange practices that others have used, neither do we stand for, nor advocate hate speech or violence against any person no matter race or orientation. I believe God is excited about each individual and has an awesome plan for each person.

  • The_Truth - 2013-01-19 21:40

    On the previous article I posted a short bit of my experience at Creare. However I feel about their handling this certain subject, I must also say that a probe by people who do not understand what it is all about, will not be a good thing. Creare has it positive points - it DOES help people with problems and addictions, and then for those who really believe they can be cured of being gay, let them go. I was not given a choice, maybe it was their mistake 7 years back. Every person has a choice. Let them believe what they believe - and let us all stop judging. Sure, I do not want anyone going through the same I had, but if it is their choice, then it is the burden to carry.

      The_Truth - 2013-01-19 21:45

      And to close my view on this, I wish people would realize that substance abuse and bad habits are something DIFFERENT than a deeply personal thing like being gay. It is not something you choose or learn - and let those who say it is, please get their eyes opened. It is not a sickness or something that can just be "brainwashed" away. Still, let Creare believe what they believe. It is not up to anyone to judge them. They think they are right. We think we are right. What about everyone just leaving it and moving on?

  • JoMelGroup - 2013-01-19 23:40

    I attended Creare full-time for several years till end 2008. Before I joined, my life was on a downward spiral and I was praying for answers, identity and for some way to get over a life of rejection and very bad choices. I needed a second chance. At Creare I discovered that much of who I had become, and many of my dreams were based purely on my past experiences, and not on who I truly am in God's eyes. I discovered new life by attending and have moved on to start a loving family, a business, and most of all a true sense of identity. I highly recommend Creare Training Centre, where I was changed by God's love and grace forever. In such an atmosphere many things are possible, I experienced it, you can too.

      JoMelGroup - 2013-01-20 01:13

      It is not about being homosexual or heterosexual... It's about living life without our sexuality, or fears, or rejection, or future or our past being our master. These things should not control our lives, plans or decisions, and that's where the freedom of Christ comes in. When we allow Him to lead us, He will lead us into a life of abundance, freedom and peace. Here is a link to one of many people who left their life of homosexuality. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6gbVgcKZQtg

  • nicolette.hlakoane - 2013-01-20 08:38

    I have been involved with Creare since 2007 amd it is by the grace of God that He placed the centre in my life. I really praise Him for the leadership there n the discipleship. These people here has taught me grace, love, forgiveness and most of it all grounded my identity. It is so awesome to see how they want Gods heart to be revealed to a person. There where times in my life that I, myself thought I was bio-sexual. This is before I joined. I honestly dated guys n a lesbian, because I thought a girl will love u more n not hurt u because they know how they want to be treated. When I got to Creare even before I thought of being out about it, a lot of Gods will for my life was being imparted in my life and a lot of things where starting to make sense, when I got here, the leadership showed me who Christ is not who they want me to be and everytime all they do is show me more of Christ and disciple me in Gods will. Even when my past tries to creeps up, because of what I've seen in my leaders life and because of how they took me in beyond my mistakes n past all I want to do is live in Gods will n get more n more of Hos heart for me. PRAISE GOD FOR PST CORNELIS N MANDATE THAT GOD HAS GIVEN HIM

  • nicolette.hlakoane - 2013-01-20 09:01

    I know English is definately not my mother tongue but really now, the key words here is 'willing to change', I see all these comments of people who are not willing to change, so this basically isn't for you and I don't get why you are all so angry and discriminating against the centre. Sorry if this has hurt you, I know that is definately not the centres intentions but please let the people who are willing have THE RIGHT to do that, as the centre gives THE RIGHT and doesn enforce change

      SarcasticAgnostic - 2013-01-20 09:51

      And I'll ask again, why would they want to change? There is nothing wrong with being homosexual.

      clairesally - 2013-01-20 12:31

      In reply to the comment on Nicolette's comment. You have a right to believe homosexuality is not wrong. However, not everyone shares your belief. That is called Freedom of Religion and it is also protected by our South African Constitution. Those who display homosexual tendencies but believe in their hearts that homosexuality is wrong should be allowed to seek assistance in changing their sexual orientation should they so choose. And this should be done in an environment that is conducive to change. Some people believe there is nothing wrong with being an alcoholic or being overweight. They would not join an AA group or a weight-loss programme, because there they would be required to change their ways. They would also not be allowed to stay in such an institution if they do not want to change, because they would have a negative impact on the people there that DO want to change, ie, become sober or lose weight. It's really very simple. Equality and human rights is a two-way street. We at Creare are not telling or forcing anyone to change their beliefs, we are giving those who SHARE our beliefs an opportunity to change their behaviour patterns to match what THEY believe is right or wrong, in an environment that supports that change positively. I have more than one friend who has changed their sexual orientation from gay to straight because they felt their lifestyle was wrong, and their quality of life has improved - by their OWN ADMISSION. They should have the right to do that. I applaud Creare and Pastor Cornelis van Heyningen for offering such a service. Freedom of Religion is ALSO a human right! Shalom! Claire Roos

      SarcasticAgnostic - 2013-01-20 20:13

      (Well, since my previous comment was deleted, I will clean it up a bit and repeat it:) Claire, freedom of religion? *Have you seen how the general population treats people of other faiths? *Have you seen parents terrifying their children with stories of eternal suffering? *Have you seen how a person who wheres a t-shirt stating "I am an atheist" is treated, while a guy wearing an "I heart Jesus" t-shirt, and threatening the general population with damnation, is just accepted? *Have you seen children disowned by their parents, just because those children come out of the closet, or change their faith? Don't give me that "freedom of religion"-argument. These things, and more, makes it unacceptable to be different from everyone else. Most of these people going into those programs do it out of fear; fear of hell; fear of disapproval; fear of violence. You live in your cushionny world of self delusion; where you believe people are not being discriminated against; people are not being physically and emotionally abused; where "corective-rape" doesn't happen. Wake up, and smell the sewage.

  • emile.fourie.509 - 2013-01-20 11:14

    I recognise this is an emotive topic. However, the Biblical worldview that I follow is about change. I fully recognise that not all people subscribe to this worldview, but this is the context from which I will answer. What we have discovered in our environment is that some people do question the fact that homosexuality is absolute and immutable. These people have displayed a desire to find out more about their sexuality and with time come to realise that it is not immutable, and as a result have gone on to form healthy relations with the others sex. Some are even married and have children. None of this was done coercively because of the Biblical principle of the freedom of choice. As people we don’t have the ability to change anyone. But we believe and have seen that God is able to institute change, not only with regards to this but in all facets of life. What is also interesting is that this aspect of change is also echoed in secular research. Dr. Robert Spitzer published empirical evidence substantiating the effectiveness of reorientation therapy (see Archives of Sexual Behavior, Vol. 32, No. 5, October 2003, pp. 403-417), and the pro-conversion therapy research of the National Association for Research and Therapy of Homosexuality in the United States (see www.narh.com) helped them to block the California ban on change therapy in December 2012.

      madmountainza - 2013-01-20 21:21

      Emile, I am a heterosexual, your treatment sounds so nice - Many of my peers are gay and I am always been criticized for being straight. I want to become gay, could you possibly advise me who to contact or where to go for change-therapy to help me become re-orientated towards homosexuality? Thank-you

      madmountainza - 2013-01-22 01:43

      Hi Emile, why aren't you answering me, I'm hoping you can help convert and re-orientate me towards homosexuality. Doesn't your environment help people to change - I want to be accepted by my homosexual friends, can you give me any advice?

  • madmountainza - 2013-01-20 20:28

    To all the people in favour of this this type of 'cure gay' treatment, please read this article (www.allout.org/en/actions/endgaycures). Did you ever consider that the real sickness here, is not the people who are gay, but the people who can't accept them for who and what what they are.

      SarcasticAgnostic - 2013-01-21 19:52

      Don't bother Mad, those bigots don't see anything wrong with what they do.

      madmountainza - 2013-01-22 02:05

      Hi SH, maybe they'll listen to someone important like Obama - what he said in his inauguration speech today was epic. 'It is now our generation’s task to carry on what our pioneers began. For our journey is not complete until our wives, our mothers, and daughters can earn a living equal to their efforts. Our journey is not complete until our gay brothers and sisters are treated like anyone else under the law – for if we are truly created equal, then surely the love we commit to one another must be equal as well.' Or maybe they'll listen to one of their Christian leaders, this is what Archbishop Desmond Tutu said when commenting on the Ugandan Anti-homosexual bill: 'God does not discriminate among members of our family. God does not say black is better than white, or tall is better than short, or football players are better than basketball players, or Christians are better than Muslims … or gay is better than straight. No. God says love one another; love your neighbour. God is for freedom, equality and love ... People have over many centuries devised all kinds of terrible instruments to oppress other people. Usually, they have rationalised their awful actions on the basis of their belief in their own superiority, in their culture, in their spiritual beliefs, in their skin colour ... The notion of equal rights in any family, in any society, is non-negotiable. No sane person or group of people can sustainably argue that their rights should be more equal than others.'

  • JoMelGroup - 2013-01-21 23:44

    During my 30yrs in Bloemfontein I've never heard of a "cure for homosexuality" that the media and gay groups are talking about. However, what I have witnessed in many churches I've been part of is: people recovering after being raped or sexually molested, I've seen people growing in confidence after being bullied back in their schools-days, I've seen people finding identity after being abandoned or living a life of rejection, I've seen people coming free from drug, alcohol and other addictions, I've seen people nurtured after divorce or death has destroyed their family, I've seen a HIV baby being adopted and given a home, I've seen people clothed and fed, and the down and out rise to start again, this is what God is doing in His churches. His heart is that each of us has a caring support group around us, because many of us have been hurt, discriminated against, mocked, rejected, bullied, betrayed or abandoned. God is in the business of mending hearts, if you've never experienced that in a church, then look and look until you find one that reflects God's heart, then run into His house, you'll find Him in the hearts and faces of His people.

      JoMelGroup - 2013-01-23 11:59

      I attended Creare full-time for several years till end 2008. Before I joined, my life was on a downward spiral and I was praying for answers, identity and for some way to get over a life of rejection and very bad choices. I needed a second chance. At Creare I discovered that much of who I had become, and many of my dreams were based purely on my past experiences, and not on who I truly am in God's eyes. I discovered new life by attending and have moved on to start a loving family, a business, and most of all a true sense of identity. I highly recommend Creare Training Centre, where I was changed by God's love and grace forever. In such an atmosphere many things are possible, I experienced it, you can too.

  • Edward Wrong - 2013-04-17 13:48

    Shut these homophobes DOWN>

  • pages:
  • 1