News24

Probe into wedding venue's alleged gay ban

2014-03-28 12:39

Johannesburg - A preliminary investigation is being conducted into alleged discrimination against a gay couple by the Kilcairn Farm wedding venue, the SA Human Rights Commission said on Friday.

Spokesperson Isaac Mangena said the SAHRC was looking into the matter on its own initiative, after Leanne Brown-Waterson and her partner Christelle were told they could not hold their wedding at Kilcairn, as the owner did not approve of same-sex marriage.

Mangena said: "It is very worrying that despite the progressive laws prohibiting violence or any form of discrimination against persons based on their sexual orientation, we still have incidents where gays and lesbians are discriminated against."

As part of its investigation, which was in its initial stages, the SAHRC would interview the couple and the owner of the wedding venue.

"While we have several other similar cases related to discrimination against gays and lesbians, for now this investigation will be dealt with separately."

Website shut down

Kilcairn, in the Riebeek Valley of the Western Cape, could not immediately be reached for comment and the venue's website appears to have been shut down.

Website Mambaonline reported that a number of people began campaigning against Kilcairn, and those associated with it.

Brown-Waterson was quoted as saying that the woman who rents and manages the wedding venue, as well as the caterers, Two Food Fundies, had received hate mail, despite the fact that it was the venue owner who would not allow the couple to marry there.

"Both parties are receiving hate mail, threats via correspondence and telephone, and are being asked to explain themselves to the public," Brown-Waterson told Mambaonline.

This condemnation was misplaced, however.

"Both are innocent parties, and being lambasted by the public in itself is a criminal act," she said.

She appealed to anyone who had done so to apologise.

Comments
  • Henk Venter - 2014-03-28 12:42

    so what!!? just as it is their "right" to marry who ever they want, its MY right to accommodate who ever I want and if I dont want them at MY venue, I DONT want them there!!

      DamnTheMan - 2014-03-28 12:46

      So if you don't like coloured people you don't have to accommodate for them? Being homophobic is not a phobia, you're not scared of anything, you're just an @rsehole...

      moegmalseun - 2014-03-28 12:49

      if you have a public venue you fall under ,the law of discrimination if you say right of admission reserved. there are rules that apply for that as well, i mean would you not serve a black person , or may by a cripple were do you draw the line

      Jack Tig - 2014-03-28 12:54

      Well said Henk,they cant force us to accommodate their disgusting behavior in our premises. What a nerve.

      Nick Andrews - 2014-03-28 12:54

      DamnTheMan, i must disagree with you. The issue here probably stems from a religious basis. Its not quite the same as a race issue in that everyone has a right to their own beliefs and if i have a wedding venue and i don't condone gay marriage it is infringing on MY right to my beliefs. Let me just say before i get a thousand thumbs down, i am all for gay marriage, i am simply stating what i believe to be right.

      JamesBlacksmith - 2014-03-28 12:55

      @Damn There is nothing that states one's gender rights should trump another's religious rights. If this couple loses it will be a terrible blow for religious rights in our country and a vindication of all those against homosexual unions. The argument has always been 'what you do in the privacy of your bedroom', and yet here we find homosexuals enforcing their views and lifestyle upon a religious couple. So yes, fear of losing one's business is a valid reason for homophobia.

      Truth24 - 2014-03-28 12:55

      DamnTheMan YOU made it about racism when you asked about brown people. Moron.

      Luzuko Mtoyi - 2014-03-28 12:55

      @Henk, haters and racists ,always use that line: "I can choose who I want in my farm, house, bar, school etc". It is still discrimination. As long as your farm, school etc is in the public sphere, then you can't stop people who are genuinely trying to utilise that which you call yours, for the purpose that you established it for....( unless these people want to burn your farm, school etc, you cannot deny access)

      JamesBlacksmith - 2014-03-28 12:58

      @Luzuko The legal term is 'unfair discrimination'. AA is not considered unfair.

      Stephan Francois Bouwer - 2014-03-28 12:59

      We live in a world where my religious and culture views mean less then the desires of the gay-happy world. Why are gay people always seen as right? The owner probably belongs to one of those churches that is strongly against gay-weddings. Why is her views just seen as wrong. The world is to afraid to stand against their strong believes, because of cases like this. We can talk for hours about how wrong it is to say no to gays, human rights and all that stuff, but why do everyone suddenly needs to change their believes to keep a very small minority group happy?

      Truth24 - 2014-03-28 13:00

      @Damn Example? Funny how thats the first thing that came to your mind. Play the race card much?

      DamnTheMan - 2014-03-28 13:01

      So according to you guys here, its ok to hate because of your religion? @Nick , religion is racist? When where blacks allowed to be in churches? Look at apartheid and interracial relationships? It never ok to discriminate because you feel morally superior becasue of your religion or race. Hate is hate and I see alot of it here!

      Truth24 - 2014-03-28 13:03

      @Damn, You obviously have a chip on the shoulder. We're talking about gay marriage and the first thing you want talk about is 'brown people'. Just admit you're a bloody racist.

      Lydon Daniel McGrane - 2014-03-28 13:05

      The irony when Jack Tig is using a bisexual as his profile photo... xD

      Pierre Pretorius - 2014-03-28 13:06

      I'm pretty sure it is "right of admission reserved". Which means they can deny anyone, including myself. Get over yourself. If gay people want the same rights, which I believe they are entitled to, they must obey by the rules, and not cry foul when they don't get what they want.

      DamnTheMan - 2014-03-28 13:07

      What a pecker you are... An example of how discrimination is wrong, simple. I could have used sexism, racism, religious intolerance or literally anything. But racism hits close to home, if you hate gays, you are just as bad as a racist. Some people are just idjits...

      JamesBlacksmith - 2014-03-28 13:11

      @DamnTheMan "So according to you guys here, its ok to hate because of your religion?" So according to you, it is okay to force your lifestyle upon others even if it offends their moral views - in their own place of business/home?

      DamnTheMan - 2014-03-28 13:13

      "they must obey by the rules, and not cry foul when they don't get what they want." Even if the rules are wrong? Why do xian choose gay as being bad but ignore eating shellfish, pork and premarital sex? Maybe, because they are guilty of not following their own buy bull... Hypocrites...

      Truth24 - 2014-03-28 13:14

      @Damn, If I didn't think you had limited mental capacity, I would have continue reasoning with you. But I believe you are nothing more than a fool. Have a nice day.

      DamnTheMan - 2014-03-28 13:15

      "it is okay to force your lifestyle upon others even if it offends their moral views" Who is forcing who's view here? The gay couple want to marry, but the people offering the service are refusing? The gay couple are not forcing anything, but the religious creep on the other hand...

      Nick Andrews - 2014-03-28 13:16

      @Damn, what are you talking about? How does the apartheid government not letting black people into churches have ANYTHING to do with religion? That is racism pure and simple. And these are not my views, they are law. Try reading with an open mind and not with your blinkers on. You obviously cant rationalize proper thought so i will leave you to your views.

      DamnTheMan - 2014-03-28 13:18

      "But I believe you are nothing more than a fool" There's the religious intolerance that we love so much? What does the buy bull say about calling brothers fools?

      DamnTheMan - 2014-03-28 13:20

      "@Damn, what are you talking about? How does the apartheid government not letting black people into churches have ANYTHING to do with religion?" Really, The NK Kerk was the official religious leaders of the apartheid regime. Get your head out of your arse, the buy bull has been used for racial and sexist intolerance since it was created by man.

      Titus Madiba - 2014-03-28 13:21

      Discrimination happens everywhere its like trying to find accommodation in Cape Town when you're a black person. They will tell you sorry the place has been taken and 5 minutes later you get your white friend to call and suddenly its available. Feel sorry for the gay couple but this is Mzantsi!!

      Gideon Van Der Walt - 2014-03-28 13:22

      This is why racism is such a difficult thing to address, because at your own house you have racial preferences, like Henk said, but then you get to the real world and you have to interact with other races and orientations. Racist at home, racist at work.

      Pierre Pretorius - 2014-03-28 13:23

      @DamnTheMan - seems like you have some religious chip on your shoulder, and sommer assumed that I'm a Christian. I say again - if you have the same rights, you must abide by the same rules. Now please calm down.

      Nick Andrews - 2014-03-28 13:26

      Damn, one churches view does not mean that it has any bearing on the religion itself. According to you, all terrorists that are blowing themselves up are doing so according to their religion. Fanatics who make up their own rules and hide behind a church are doing so according to their own messed up beliefs, not those of the religion itself. Do not associate all Christians with the apartheid government please. And you still have those blinkers on btw...

      JamesBlacksmith - 2014-03-28 13:31

      @DamnTheMan "Who is forcing who's view here?" The homosexual couple wish to use the facilities and service of the couple. The couple is not preventing the homosexual couple from getting married, nor from having a wedding reception anywhere OTHER than their own venue. And this is unacceptable to the homosexual couple? So much so that they drag the poor couple to the high court? This is called intolerance. You would not find a Hindu or Muslim couple taking a Christian couple to court over such an issue. Only a self centred intolerant person would do so.

      Tilo Von Brandis - 2014-03-28 13:37

      @nick Andrews . Just as the racist government used religion to justify their racism (the NG kerk did not allow black members using chapters in the bible that suited their objective) , in the same way religious people use chapters in the bible that suit their objective to justify their homophobia.

      Pierre Pretorius - 2014-03-28 13:39

      @JamesBlacksmith - I have to agree with you. Seems pretty extreme to drag these people to court, because they exercised their right of admission.

      JamesBlacksmith - 2014-03-28 13:41

      @Tilo You're talking rubbish. There are no chapters or texts that support what we today call 'racism'. A study of the scriptures will show there were black leaders of the early churches. In stark contrast there are both OT and NT chapters that directly and strongly condemn homosexuality and none that support it. 'religion' might be used as a tool by governments, but so is nationalism, humanism or any other 'ism' a manipulative government can get its hands on.

      Mario Meyer - 2014-03-28 13:52

      OMG no wonder this country is what it is. Just reading these comments made me laugh. What if it was a Muslim wedding... and they got chased away, right of admission does not allow one to discriminate. Even if you do not like it. If the owner of the venue was gay and refused to help straight people the same would apply. And seriously any other comment made here about how you think you feel, if you are Adam or Steve or Bertie or Thabo, your personal opinions about how Gays, Blacks, Whites, Christians etc should treat people or be treated by people. Seriously it is a reflection of who you are, and that is how people will perceive you. Do you want to be seen as a hateful intolerant bigot or rather take your mothers advice of "If you can't say anything good about a person, then rather keep quiet" ...especially if you haven't walked even an inch in their shoes...SHAME ON YOU !!

      Pierre Pretorius - 2014-03-28 13:53

      Seems like it's OK to be anti-Christian/anti-Religion on this page, but not OK to exercise right of admission.

      Pierre Pretorius - 2014-03-28 13:59

      @Mario Meyer - agree - treat people the way you want to be trated, but the fact that what they are doing feels/seems/is wrong, doesn't change the fact that it is the owners right.

      Jimmy Crompton - 2014-03-28 14:02

      I could not agree more with Henk. WE ARE THE DISCRIMINATED AGAINST!!!!! The comparison with a cripple and a gay you chose that life style is ridiculous beyond words. The Gay agenda is trying to CRUSH anyone who does not agree with them. The propogaters of this life style are the most abusive INTOLERANT people in the western world. WE WILL NOT ALLOW THEN TO RUN ROUGH SHOD OVER US.

      Pieter Koekemoer - 2014-03-28 14:03

      Damn the man you are ignoring the fact that being homosexual is against the laws as laid down by the Bible while being coloured is not. BIG difference china. If you follow your religion it cannot be a crime. In the same sense do you now ridicule Jews and Muslims for not eating pork?

      DamnTheMan - 2014-03-28 14:10

      " If you follow your religion it cannot be a crime. " Even if your religion leads to slavery, hate and murder? Do you know your history? Why did they call it the dark ages, when god was most powerful? Please remember eating shellfish, touching or eating pork and wearing two kinds of thread are also an abomination unto the lord! Why do you not enforce those laws?

      DamnTheMan - 2014-03-28 14:11

      Or stoning non-virgins on their wedding night?

      DamnTheMan - 2014-03-28 14:12

      Or stoning rape survivors that did not scream load enough... The buy bull has no moral value what so ever...

      Jopie Fourie - 2014-03-28 14:13

      Here is what I don't get: Why would anybody, e.g. gays, want to force themselves upon people whom they know don't like them? Just go to another venue, ffs! But that's probably not the point, is it? No, there is clearly an agenda among militant elements to force their choices down others' throats.

      DamnTheMan - 2014-03-28 14:34

      Well said LeeSport Comments

  • Wahl Fitzgerald - 2014-03-28 12:44

    What happened to "right of admission reserved"

      theJoPot - 2014-03-28 12:54

      Right of admission reserved is all good and well until you violate a human right. What happens if the admission was denied only to women or to people with blonde hair?

      Luzuko Mtoyi - 2014-03-28 12:57

      @Wahl, that line was used a lot just after 1994 and you know what I mean. It is a way to discriminate. Unless, the people that you are stopping from coming in pose some kind of danger etc, you have no right to stop them. It is a Public establishment

      JamesBlacksmith - 2014-03-28 12:59

      @Jo What is the moral truth of 'human rights'? A few years back it had nothing to say about gender, now it does. It is subjective, it holds no moral truth.

      Pierre Pretorius - 2014-03-28 13:32

      @Jo - what human right was violated here? Right of admission is subjective, therefore you must accept it as such or leave. If you want to talk about human rights violation, let's just mention there owners, who exercised their right, yet are now being threatened with death. Who's human rights where violated here?

      Pierre Pretorius - 2014-03-28 13:33

      @Luzuko Mtoyi - Actually, right of admission is purely subjective.

  • Moeg Malseun - 2014-03-28 12:45

    Must say reading news 24 today Gay Hate is on the increase whats going on with this sick world

      Mark Harold Jones - 2014-03-28 13:26

      Get over the hate part. To take a stand for your beliefs does not mean you hate anybody. You can love someone without approving or condoning their actions. If it was a Muslim owning the venue who refused to allow alcohol and you wanted to drink you would take your business elsewhere. and not accuse him of hating anyone.Shut up and find somewhere else.

      moegmalseun - 2014-03-28 13:42

      why should you standing up for your belief, impose on other people, maybe you don't shear my opinion , how ever i don't walk in you shoes . if you discriminated against me of course i would feel that you are being hateful towards me , don't make assumptions about other people , then you wont find people doing it to you- i am just assuming you are a biggot

      Marc Ross - 2014-03-28 13:48

      Gay people also need to acknowledge that not everyone is "comfortable" with homosexuality. Religious and cultural norms may take decades to change. I have no problem myself but some peoples feelings range from discomfort to disgust. The Constitution of SA is there to protect peoples RIGHTS not their FEELINGS. It connot say "everyone must like homosexuality" it says that homosexuals have the same RIGHTS as others. If I am a nudist/naturalist can I have a nude wedding and demand that it is my constitutional right? The gay communiity is not practising the tollerance that they preach. There are many venues who would welcome gay weddings, and probably a minority who don't. What about their RIGHT to freedom of religion, freedom of assosiation. Homosexuals is SA have the right to marry, this is good. This right is denied in 70% or more of countries globally. It will take time but by enforcing gay acceptance instead of gay rights we may polarise homosexuality even more.

      JamesBlacksmith - 2014-03-28 15:10

      @Moegoe I won't go into a gay club preaching my Christian values. It may be my right, but it would be an intolerant thing to do. Demanding that other's accept your beliefs is the definition of intolerance.

  • sbo.kubeka - 2014-03-28 12:49

    There goes their profits, some people are just too stupid to own businesses.

      Luzuko Mtoyi - 2014-03-28 12:58

      @George, says who?

      Johan Rosenberg De Wit - 2014-03-28 13:46

      Agreed.

      Francois De Lange - 2014-03-28 14:00

      Profits vs choice/principles. I guess everything should have a price, as long as there is money involved. Right?

  • Tshephangsithole - 2014-03-28 12:51

    My place my rules. If i don't want you at my place i don't want you. Finish

      moegmalseun - 2014-03-28 12:55

      then don't open up for the Public

      moegmalseun - 2014-03-28 13:20

      gays are part of the public like you are unfortunately

      Grant Logan - 2014-03-28 13:45

      @Bheki remember when black people were a problem too, they were also referred to as animals?

      Bheki Dladla - 2014-03-28 14:30

      @Grant, it is quite easy to change black people who seem to be a "problem" in society, you simply educate them and trust me their behaviour will change and very fast. So blacks being a "problem" is something we can debate on another day and there are many things you must take into account so you can understand how easy it is to change your perception regarding blacks. Let us be relevant to the article which is about gays and that is something both straight blacks and straight whites get affected with.

  • Clara Fabbro De Rossi - 2014-03-28 12:51

    Just get another venue. Why would the couple want to support this business anyway?

      moegmalseun - 2014-03-28 12:57

      its not about getting another venue, it about a business that is open to the pubic discriminating against patrons ,if it was because the girls were black or Jewish there would be outrage

  • Kirsty Prinsloo - 2014-03-28 12:53

    I doubt a person would choose a specific sexual orientation due to its "coolness"

      Lydon Daniel McGrane - 2014-03-28 13:07

      Stop using photos of bisexuals as your profile photo "Jack." It's too ironic.

      Leigh-Rose Jenkins - 2014-03-28 13:13

      Guys, Jack is just a misguided moron who would better serve humanity if just took a long walk off a short plank.

  • Helen Sanya - 2014-03-28 12:56

    Why are people imposing their gayness on otgers? Let them find another venue that will accommodate them and stop the noise.

      moegmalseun - 2014-03-28 13:01

      "Why are people imposing their STRAITness on others? Let them find another venue that will accommodate them and stop the noise." you do realize you do sound a bit stupid

      Lydon Daniel McGrane - 2014-03-28 13:07

      Why are people imposing their straightness on others? Let them have their wedding there and stop the noise.

      moegmalseun - 2014-03-28 14:37

      hay right is right never give up never surrender your soul to a lifetime of bigotry and oppression, one day they will wake up to the fact that they are the minority until that day stick up for what is right i will

  • marelize.pinto - 2014-03-28 12:59

    I have nothing against gays. I believe the owner has a right to allow whomever he wants though! Why force someone to allow something on his property he does not believe in. As a gay you should accept peoples views. Why not look for another venue if this one is not gay friendly??? No one should be forced to do something. Just because the laws of the country allows something, it can never force the people. Maybe one day the owners son or daughter will turn out to be gay, maybe then he'll change his venue.

      moegmalseun - 2014-03-28 13:03

      then the owner should not open for the public simple as that

      Desiree Rowe - 2014-03-28 13:18

      because many people believe that they have more rights than others and get upset when things don't go thier way. Everyone must accept Homosexuals, Jews, Muslim rights but world over the Christian way of life and right keep getting removed. I can't understand why people simply just can't accept other peoples choices and my always try force feed their on those who don't. Personally I could careless what you do, if you want to kiss a dog and noon in the middle of Pretoria on a Sunday well then fine just don't expect everyone to like it.

  • Lebogang Machabaphala - 2014-03-28 13:02

    Give the owner a castle lager,so he could get drunk even more #drunk-master lol

  • sandimzilikazi - 2014-03-28 13:02

    "right of admission reserved"

      moegmalseun - 2014-03-28 13:05

      not if you brake the country laws

      sandimzilikazi - 2014-03-28 13:57

      everyone believes in their own thing. religion, sexual orientation, politics. we don't have to agree with each other on these but lets respect each other.

  • Tammy Maubane - 2014-03-28 13:03

    I think the owner has the right to approve or disapprove the use of the venue. Even though the law recognises such marriages, the state must understand that some people's religion disapprove same sex relationships. I totally see nothing wrong with the decision taken by the owner. People who engage is gayism should also be reasonable and expect that not everyone will approve their relationsips.

      moegmalseun - 2014-03-28 13:06

      you think wrong it is a pubic venue

      moegmalseun - 2014-03-28 13:10

      only to you

      Tammy Maubane - 2014-03-28 13:12

      This is where "right of admission" disclaimer comes in.

      Tilo Von Brandis - 2014-03-28 13:53

      So you would be quite happy if I don't allow certain people into my venue because of my religious views that state that these people are lesser beings.(This is a hypothetical statement, I believe all people are equal, yet religion is very often used to discriminate against people) I find it quite disturbing that individuals, who have been discriminated against forever, turn around so easily and discriminate against others they don't like. Have we not learned anything in the last 20 years?

      Clara Fabbro De Rossi - 2014-03-28 13:56

      "moegmalseun, loop slaap, man. A "pubic" venue?!

      Francois Marx - 2014-03-28 13:57

      Thsepang, exactly!

  • Carina Welman - 2014-03-28 13:03

    Shame... another hater. I almost feel sorry for you....almost

  • SunshinyDay - 2014-03-28 13:04

    Everyone is entitled to their own beliefs, but if you are going to let your beliefs get in the way of business then you are not a good business owner (one exception, those involved in illegal activities). Is the owner going to prevent atheists or Jehovah's Witnesses from getting married too?

      Tammy Maubane - 2014-03-28 13:13

      Maybe, maybe not - it is his decision.

  • Gemasogpf - 2014-03-28 13:06

    Since when is it a crime to uphold your own values and standards? Is it because government have no values & standards that they want to enforce it on everybody else?

      moegmalseun - 2014-03-28 13:11

      since it is a public venue and not a private club

      Marc Ross - 2014-03-28 14:49

      @moegmalseun say I want to slaughter a goat and a cow at the wedding. The venue owners are vegan and the patrons not assosiated with the wedding are Hari Krisna. Can I slaughter because it is a public venue. I think your own feelings on this matter are clouding your normally rational views.

  • Jim Wallace - 2014-03-28 13:09

    I say money first , dont care if you are gay ,straight, muslim,christian, if you book the venue you do what you want as long as its not against public rules

  • Stefan Dorfling - 2014-03-28 13:10

    If I was one of the couple I wouldn't make a big deal about it, to me it's water of a duck's back when people are homophobic towards me. I would just insult their venue's interior decor and walk away...

  • Carla Smith - 2014-03-28 13:10

    What silly business owners. Money is money and times are tough at the moment. I'm sure they weren't planning a sex party at the venue, it is just a wedding, flowers, food, dancing, fun. Some people need to chill.

      Luané Swart - 2014-03-28 13:23

      Spot on!

      Leigh-Rose Jenkins - 2014-03-28 13:34

      Agree that some people need to chill, but at the end of the day, the financial lose only affects the owners. If that's what they want then so be it, who cares!?! Maybe at the end of a long, hard month, knowing that the bank is about to come knocking, they will rethink their biased attitude. And hopefully, should that time ever come, they would also know that it's too late to save themselves. Even if the estate had agreed to hire the venue out, but in doing so, made it obvious that they don't agree with same-sex marriages, would you then go ahead and pay them all your hard earned money? Nope, I would go and find a venue who is not only capable of providing a beautiful setting but will also be able to hold the function with an attitude that would promote the importance and beauty of that day.

  • Kon Tastik - 2014-03-28 13:12

    R.O.A.R is only really viable when it comes to age. EG: clubs and pubs etc.... and not at all on your gender, race, ethnicity etc..... you have no right to turn anyone away.... discrimination much

  • Desiree Rowe - 2014-03-28 13:13

    My agrument here is why is the rights of one group allowed to triamph over the rights of another. The Constitutional law say we can't discriminated against sex or religion and yet it both those rights that are being put to the test. One hand is a wedding for a lesbian couple. Ok all good and well we can't discriminate against them so they can have their wedding anywhere they so wish. On the other is a person with the same right but is being discriminated against because their belief system doesn't accept same sex marriage as natural order of things. So the minority gets points for being homosexual and the other gets lambasted for sticking up for their beliefs. Boy what a bunch of Hypocritz the world has become. You can't advocate for the one group and not for another when it suits you. Just now we will have lunatics trying to get rights for peadiophiles and serial killers. When they deserve none.....Ooops to late on that point..Human RIghts activism at its worse. What ever happened to choice and free will.

      Tilo Von Brandis - 2014-03-28 13:58

      Desiree, change your second sentence to "sex or religion or race" and then re-read your message. If your message is still relevant, you are in the wrong country!

  • Edna Errenrich - 2014-03-28 13:14

    if they dont like same sex marriage thats their right same as the govt denied the dalai lama a visa The country is also right of admission reserved

      moegmalseun - 2014-03-28 13:26

      if they don't like same sex marriage then they should not be in the marriage venue business, this is south Africa same sex marriage is legal and being granted same human rights as every one els is what this is about, If this is a public venue they should adhere to the country's laws or face the law

  • Tlotlo Phele - 2014-03-28 13:16

    The owner has a right as well yes,surely that should be respected as well

      moegmalseun - 2014-03-28 13:27

      he does not have the right to discriminate it is e legal

      Brenda Staples - 2014-03-28 14:04

      The owner as a private citizen of the country have rights, like the gay couple have rights, but the business, whether it be a cc, pty or whatever does not share in those rights. Those entities are governed by a whole different set of rules. Of course they can use their discrimination as a marketing tool (whites only, straight only, men only)or indicate it with a sign at the door and I would appreciate that kind of honesty, but know that I will not be supporting said business.

  • Titus Madiba - 2014-03-28 13:19

    Discrimination happens everywhere its like trying to find accommodation in Cape Town when you're a black person. They will tell you sorry the place has been taken and 5 minutes later you get your white friend to call and suddenly its available. Feel sorry for the gay but this is Mzantsi!!

      Carla Smith - 2014-03-28 13:27

      Titus name and shame then. You don't deserve to be discriminated against based on your skin colour. If people don't speak up then it just continues unnoticed.

      moegmalseun - 2014-03-28 13:28

      Ok so this is way things need to change, its against the law

      Berkold Enderstend - 2014-03-28 14:51

      @CarlaSmith: Don't obfuscate the issue with racism. People do not choose their race or their skin colour. They do choose their sexual partners and their associated lifestyles. Completely different issues. You choose your lifestyle, I'll choose mine. Leave me alone and I'll leave you alone. It is that easy. Go where you are welcomed. Stay away where you are not. As above, it is really that easy.

  • Lebogang Machabaphala - 2014-03-28 13:26

    Is a private property,is the own doesn't want certain people,who are you to dispute him/her? People are different,when some people chose to be homosexual is their democratic right and can sleep with who ever they want but when a property owner chose who use his property or not get attack from all angles.this is not fair,his property his rule.if you don't agree go and get married at Nkandla and see how cruel people can be.

      Carla Smith - 2014-03-28 13:38

      It's a business, I'm sure they are paying tax based on a business and not personal income tax. There are different laws for private homes and privately owned property operating as businesses.

      Lebogang Machabaphala - 2014-03-28 13:43

      Ja is a business property but anytime the owner can change that and use it for other reasons other than business.The Question is,can the homesexuality of that couple be revised??? Respect the christain community,then we won't have this incident again.period

      Tilo Von Brandis - 2014-03-28 14:02

      Lebogang, would you respect a racist for what he believes? I don't believe so... so why must people respect homophobia?

  • Carla Smith - 2014-03-28 13:34

    I hope they find another venue where they can enjoy their special day in happiness. I also hope these owners realize they have destroyed a lucrative revenue stream. It's a lose-lose situation for all when a business discriminates, be it based on colour or sexual orientation. A wedding venue is not a Church or place of worship so religion should have nothing to do with it.

      Francois Marx - 2014-03-28 13:40

      They dont need homo money.

      Lebogang Machabaphala - 2014-03-28 13:53

      They have gay and lesbian night-club,why don't they a wedding venue too?

      Jean-Luc Stanic - 2014-03-28 14:29

      You see Carla, the problem in South Africa is that most of these wedding venue owners are very religious and even have their own chapels on the property which have been blessed by some bishops. I am not sure if this couple wanted to have the ceremony at the venue or if it was done before ! If it was done before, then the owners were stupid not to hold a dinner, because like you said, it would have put money into their bank account. But some people are stubborn and put their spiritual beliefs first ! Sad !

      Berkold Enderstend - 2014-03-28 14:47

      The business lost nothing. In fact it gained a whole lot of free publicity, thanks to those attention seeking homosexuals that chose to create a fuss. Booking requests are jamming up the switchboard as I type. So, Boo-bloody-Hoo to your cheap attempt at scaring the owners with financial loss. #somepeople

      Carla Smith - 2014-03-28 15:05

      The business has shut down all their social media accounts and website... LOL Are you the owner?

  • Mandy Davidson Gaud - 2014-03-28 13:36

    Why are only gay peoples rights protected? What about people who believe in the Bible and Jesus Christ? It distinctly says that being a homosexual is against Christianity. Respect Christians too and not just gay people!

      Francois Marx - 2014-03-28 13:39

      Exactly.

      Laubser Brink - 2014-03-28 13:44

      Johnny for president

      Brooce Leigh - 2014-03-28 14:08

      @ Johnny B Goode - It's in the New Testament too. Look at Romans chapter 1 as the first example. Actually the New Testament is more precise than the OT when it comes to homosexuality. It not only calls homosexuality a sin but also those who act effeminate (bi's and transvestites etc) and also those who 'give approval to those who practice them'. By 'them' it shows in Romans, are all the sins listed, not only homosexuality. Romans 1:18-32 Most who use your argument know nothing about the Bible and are clearly confused by the Jewish customary laws of the time and the Mosaic law.

      Brenda Staples - 2014-03-28 14:08

      The owner as a private citizen of the country have rights, like the gay couple have rights, but the business, whether it be a cc, pty or whatever does not share in those rights. Those entities are governed by a whole different set of rules. Of course they can use their discrimination as a marketing tool (whites only, straight only, men only)or indicate it with a sign at the door and I would appreciate that kind of honesty, but know that I will not be supporting said business.

      Leigh-Rose Jenkins - 2014-03-28 14:34

      Mandy and Francios, do you guys eat shellfish (or pork for that matter)? Do you wear clothing made only of one thread? The SPCA take absolute exception to me burning a bull at the alter, should I withdraw my support from them? What do you suggest I do with my boyfriend who INSISTS on working on the Sabbath? And I have absolutely NO IDEA what do about my neighbour who continues to grow his carrots RIGHT NEXT TO his tomatoes? Why is it right, and godly, to follow the one "rule" but not the others?

  • Tishan Pillay - 2014-03-28 13:36

    "right of admission reserved" means what.. u entitled to be a racists, sexists. u can turn who u want away.. we are democracy and people have rights even if you disagree with them. be a man and admit you hate certain groups or race.. don't use gods name in vain as an excuse..

      Jopie Fourie - 2014-03-28 14:33

      So can I come and eat a beef steak in your Hindu temple?

  • Olivia de Bruyn - 2014-03-28 13:39

    Human Rights Commission - It's the right of any establishment to say yay or nay. It's their human right to differ from opinion so stop with the bashing. I have gay family and it is still a company's prerogative to say no to gay couples. This is not hate but believe systems that differ. Yes it is a believe system and I carry it to though I love my gay family. So sorry for those that feel this company hates gays - that's never the case only that they don't agree with their lifestyle - their right.

      Brenda Staples - 2014-03-28 14:11

      A business is not a human.

  • Olivia de Bruyn - 2014-03-28 13:43

    @Desiree Jesus was a Jew not a Christian He never practiced anything "christian" He has and always will be a Jew and will be returning as one.

      Lebogang Machabaphala - 2014-03-28 13:50

      Jew is a tribe and christain is a religion.

  • Grieta Mitchley - 2014-03-28 13:46

    It is their right if it is against their beliefs and religion

  • Jean-Luc Stanic - 2014-03-28 13:46

    I am gay and happily involved with my partner for almost 13 years. I do not believe in religious same sex weddings as these are only meant for heterosexual couples as it is stipulated in the Bible. I do nevertheless believe in civil unions as it will secure the couple's assets and prevent family members to descend like vultures in order to claim some inheritance, should one of the two decease. As for the owners of the wedding venue, I believe that it is their right to welcome you or not. All you would have to do is to find out which venues are gay friendly and that's it ! Why is it so difficult to understand ?

      Carla Smith - 2014-03-28 13:53

      Good luck with your civil union when it doesn't convey the same legal rights as a "marriage". Marriage is not a religious idea, it is a legal idea. You've been duped by the Bible bashers. Marriage was around before Christianity.

      Clara Fabbro De Rossi - 2014-03-28 14:51

      Carla, I am in a civil union and we do, in fact, enjoy the same legal rights married couples do.

  • Peter William - 2014-03-28 13:49

    Get your "right of admission reserved" up if you want to discriminate. What I find hard to digest, so what if it's gays or lesbians, they are people and they have feelings. As long as they behave as long as they pay their bill SO BLOODY WHAT.

  • Solly Knoetze - 2014-03-28 13:50

    My hond is ook n lessie.

  • Hennie Kotze - 2014-03-28 13:50

    "We reserve the right to object to choices you make in your life, and to distance ourselves from the lifestyle you choose to follow. We furthermore reserve the right to hold our own opinions and beliefs, and to adhere to standards and morals that may differ from, or even oppose, yours, and to exercise these rights by declining your request for services and/or accommodation." Attention seekers suck. There are MANY other places in that area that would LOVE to host them. Why not just deal with it and move on? Why the drama?

  • Angela Sandells - 2014-03-28 13:51

    Same sex marriage is legal in this country. If you run a wedding venue then, in my opinion, all weddings should be welcome. It's not a church therefore beliefs should not come into it. If two people love each other and want to make this commitment, then I don't see a problem at all.

  • Charl du Preez - 2014-03-28 13:56

    As a gay male, I must say that I think the venue has the right to refuse the wedding based in their religious beliefs. J

      Charl du Preez - 2014-03-28 14:00

      Rights should be extended to all people, it should not favour one at another's expense. It's the same situation as what happened with the whole Chic-fil-A debacle.

      Carla Smith - 2014-03-28 14:03

      It's not the same as Chic-fil-A. Chic-fil-A said they didn't support gay marriage, which they are entitled to say. Gay people can still eat at Chic-fil-A, they are not banned from eating there. You don't sound very bright. Most gay people I know are much more clued up when it comes to their hard earned rights.

      Charl du Preez - 2014-03-28 14:11

      My point exactly, you only want rights for one group, but not another that might not agree with my life choices. Calling someone you don't know stupid is a poor reflection of your character. PS. Also don't assume that all gay people approve of marriage within our community. I suggest that if you are not GLBT, you stick to your own like and make comments on your own issues. That said, you are entitled to offer your opinion, YOUR rights is protected. Wish the venue had the same rights.

      Carla Smith - 2014-03-28 14:16

      You purport to be gay but you call it a "life choice"??? Marriage doesn't belong to any religion, it is a legal contract between two people. Stop drinking the religious koolaid, it's rotting your brain.

      Charl du Preez - 2014-03-28 14:21

      Feel free to ask my boyfriend. And yes, marriage is a religious tradition - between a man and a woman. You think you speak for all of us in the gay community, but you don't. Not all of us want to sit on a float wearing nothing but a feather proclaiming to the world our gayness. You think your thought is the only acceptable way of thinking....dream on sir, dream on!

  • Peter William - 2014-03-28 13:56

    Olivia, did you speak to Jesus Christ, did he tell you he did nothing Christian, and did he tell you he is coming back as a Jew.

  • Séan McAdorey McCann - 2014-03-28 13:59

    Thanks for your comment Henk...best you stay on your plaas mate.

      Allan van der Merwe - 2014-03-28 14:08

      @Sean! Any form of discrimination is wrong, u are no better than Henk with your “plaas“ chirp! U tool!!!!!!

  • James Carr - 2014-03-28 14:01

    Would the constitution expect a Muslim Imam to allow a Christian wedding in his Mosque? I'm sure the owner is objecting to the actual wedding taking place on his property, not denying access to gay people. By allowing the wedding to take place on his property he could be going against his belief system. One can't expect the owner to be party to something that his beliefs don't allow for.

      Carla Smith - 2014-03-28 14:09

      But it's not a RELIGIOUS venue. It's not a Church. What don't you understand about that? They are not asking to get married in a Catholic Church or a Mosque.

  • Johan Smit - 2014-03-28 14:04

    I see a lot of people here refer to "right of admission". Keep in mind that this does not supercede the constitution and therefore you may not discriminate.

      Berkold Enderstend - 2014-03-28 14:31

      If I were having a public exhibition, and had reserved the right of admission, I have every right to refuse entry and not provide any reasons for that refusal. Maybe I don't like the way you smell - my right to choose who I let enter. Why would anybody want to be in a place they were not welcome? Because they want to cause trouble or they are looking for the free publicity. Sad indeed.

  • Jean-Luc Stanic - 2014-03-28 14:08

    @Carla Smith - There is a big difference between a Civil Union and a Religious Mariage ! I have never listened to Bible bashers and never will. A Civil Union protects your common assets like I said and prevents family feuds should one of us die. A Religious Mariage is only recognised by the Church and not the State ! Not sure about South Africa though ! I am French and in France the State and the Church are two seperate entities. I could be wrong about South Africa !

      Carla Smith - 2014-03-28 14:18

      Are you aware that the fight for "gay marriage" in the USA was about more than just the word "marriage". They had "civil unions" but those did not convey the same legal rights as a "marriage". I know people who were not allowed to see their dying partner in hospital because they were not allowed to be "married". It's just a word, and everyone deserves the same rights when they decide to be with one person for the rest of their life.

      Brenda Staples - 2014-03-28 14:19

      You can get married without involving religion. I have a marriage certificate (it says so on the document) but everything was completely secular.

  • Tshepo Edmunds - 2014-03-28 14:10

    Do people of the same sex really have to get married?

      moegmalseun - 2014-03-28 14:28

      do you want to get married? sex or same sex have nothing to do with the married part

      Clara Fabbro De Rossi - 2014-03-28 15:06

      Absolutely up to the couple whether they want to or not, Tshepo.

  • Anton Reece Nina - 2014-03-28 14:11

    How backward our country and people are going

  • Sarel W Brits - 2014-03-28 14:12

    Before we drag God into this, yes the Bible say it's wrong but so is extra marital affairs coveting another man's wife and a lot of other sins that we are all guilty of every day. So who's among us is perfect and going to throw the 1st stone? The problem I have is this venue is private property and the owner for what ever reason can do with it what ever they want. Why would you want to hold your wedding where you do not feel welcome?

  • Koonradie Steyn - 2014-03-28 14:13

    Get your facts straight Sahrc,it is a private property for heaven sake,If the owner say no to gays then why should it be an issue?

      moegmalseun - 2014-03-28 14:30

      it is also a place were the public can attend , it is not a private club

  • Jean-Luc Stanic - 2014-03-28 14:19

    Call a caterer and have your wedding at home !!! I would prefer that ! And tell all your guests to drop their car keys in a salad bowl and we all know where that will lead to !!! LOL

  • irritirritated - 2014-03-28 14:20

    Why doesn't this so-called Human Rights Commission investigate BEE - that is just as discriminatory. Why is one law good for some and not good for others.

  • Berkold Enderstend - 2014-03-28 14:21

    @damnthewhat?: I have read your comments on several issues and the common thread found through them all is your inherent racism and your inherent atheism. Both are equally idiotic and as such, you remain, a plonker of note. You have the reasoning capacity of a cabbage.

  • Bradly Howland - 2014-03-28 14:21

    As a point of clarity on 'the right of admission reserved', the law does allow you to choose your clients (within reason), as long as you don't contravene another law; for example, the law to not discriminate based on gender, race, creed or sexual orientation.

  • Nana Marang - 2014-03-28 14:21

    To all the Christians on this forum bashing the gays, repent and ask Christ to forgive you NOW!!! I'm Christian and I know what Jesus came to teach and it was NOT bashing, it was LOVE!!! Do not judge your brother lest you be judged - the words of Christ. How can you say to your brother "let me remove the splinter from you eye" when in fact you have a plank in your own eye - the words of Christ Let he who has not sinned cast the first stone - the words of Christ. I could go on and on and on... To all the non Christians on this forum bashing the gays, GO GET YOUR LIFE AND LEAVE THE GAYS ALONE YOU SCUM!!!