Race will matter for years - Friedman

2012-12-12 22:50

Johannesburg - People need to realise that race will matter for a long time to come, political analyst Steven Friedman said on Wednesday.

"The racial hierachy that existed before is still part of society," he said at a debate in Constitution Hill.

"Not much has changed in the past 18 years."

He referred to a recent survey conducted by the University of Johannesburg which found that 18 years into democracy it took black students about three months after graduation to find a job, while white people with the same degree got it straight away.

Friedman said those in the economic elite needed to be aware of certain realities.

One reality was that some people lived in extreme poverty.

"Another reality is that It isn't so easy for black people to slot in properly into the economy," he said.

"We are in a process of change but that change hasn't gone as far as it could."

  • nhlakaniphog1 - 2012-12-12 22:58

    Friedman statement dispel the notion that Affirmative Action denies white graduates employment, that has been peddled in this site

      ntuthuko.matthews - 2012-12-13 00:37

      @jakalas. For a second there I would’ve sworn that I’m having serious relapses of the dark days of unscrupulous research findings perpetuated by narrow minded imperialists. You, jakalas a shockingly misinformed! As such, I can’t really engage with you at an intellectual level about your assertions. Instead, I’ll draw your attention to these practical exercises that you can apply your mind too. Fact, the most educated race group in the USA, is African – not African-Americans, but Africans. Let that percolate in that one brain cell of yours for a moment. Fact, the black middle class in the country is on the incline. This, despite the mediocre education and the failed AA and BEE policies. Lastly, go to any tertiary institution in the country and observe the demographics at face value. I would encourage you to expand your black social club from garden boys, domestic works and all those that call your baaasss and also travel outside Oranje for a change! You’ll find that most us are genetically modified black people - I’m being for sarcastic - who have competed at tertiary level and continue to compete in the private sector with anyone who believes they are superior because of the colour of their skin.

      salee.sithwell - 2012-12-13 03:42

      The saddest thing about apartheid is that it produced black and white people who do not see further than Ventersdorp. They think that having been told that they are superior or inferior by the apartheid government, the whole world should listen to their garbage. They come up with arguments that fall apart as soon as you look outside the country or better yet, inside a book. But then, perhaps, yes - South African blacks or whites are genetically wired to be in a certain place in society. That must be right. But in the US, where I visit every second month, as my husband was born here, the model minority is no longer Asian immigrants, but is in fact, African immigrants. But then again, you don't have to believe me. The apartheid government told you guys otherwise and it must be right. SOME whites are genetically superior, yessur! See, they have the BS chromosome.The BS chromosome makes people really smart. You know the cellphone, which we would not have but for the black nuclear physicist Henry Thomas Sampson's Gamma-electrical cell technology? It is actually something we have South African BS chromosomed whites to thank for. How could he come up with this without the BS chromosome? Impossible! And yes, the fact that white males are classified as "a minority group" in UK universities must be a mistake- see link .Perhaps they lack the S African BS chromosome, and need the assistance of "discriminating legislation". That's right, Jakalas. I agree fully. Fully!

      zapadela.tistarocha - 2012-12-13 06:35

      This Matre,Friedman is in touch with the Realities in RSA. The Truth shall set you free.......

      MagdaKus - 2012-12-13 06:43

      I agree with Salee. Through my church group I have a number of black friends including Congolese & Zimbabwean, who grew up believing they should be engineers, accountants etc (as opposed to domestic help not that I am looking down at anybody's occupation)- and in some discussions I swear they have more brain cells to rub together than some of our white friends (bottom line being that in SA too many see blacks as maid and gardener material only). It is so sad that our tea lady at work who has matric, never had a chance at a more challenging occupation...

      themba.maseko.568 - 2012-12-13 06:53

      If white people are superior then why did they have to oppress black people. To me if you can't make it, there is no need to make a legislation to exclude and oppress you as you will be excluded by your failures. Come one let's put history behind us and move on and be united as a nation. Affirmation action today is trying to reverse the effects of many years of oppressing and not to make up for lack of intelligence of black people. What we need is to coach the nation. Think about it, white kids are born knowing nothing, everything they know is taught to them, this is what black kids need as well. Kids who get the same education are not separable intellectually by race.

      gert.swart.393 - 2012-12-13 06:54

      The amount of money lost to corruption in SA over the past 18 years, some say, is about R650Bn. Does anyone have any comprehension about how much money this actually is? This money could have uplifted all South Africans 10 times over. Now, after 18 years of democracy and legislation to close the gap between the races, nothing much has happened. Now, whose fault is that? The whites I know and associate with love this country and all it's people and are working their asses off to make this country a better place. But every day they must hear that they are somehow in the wrong and that the skin colour, which they have not chosen but was born into, will count against them and their children forever? This rubbish must end!

      thulani.b.kiviet - 2012-12-13 06:59

      @ jakalas, it's actually alarming that u typed that crap and believed it. And then u wanna talk genetic potential. How ironic. @ntuthuko, my man don't even waste ur time getting worked up by such idiots. As the saying goes, empty vessels make the loudest noise.

      george.frangs - 2012-12-13 07:30

      Dammit jakalas, you're to white people what JuJu is to blacks, you make us all look bad! What utter nonsense!! Please guys, disregard what this idiot said, he is absolutely clueless, and like most of the idiots in government, still lives in the past. Lol genetics... By that logic because I'm Greek, I am far more intelligent than any of you clowns.

      itumeleng.mogaki - 2012-12-13 07:39

      That is really sad. Can't we all just get along.

      irene.laskowskadebeer - 2012-12-13 07:59

      @ jakalas, i dont know what biology lesons you attended but hells bells you ae one sick individual. So you think blacks are genetically inferior to whites? Please enlighten us all, where do the mongols, native americans, pakistanis, srilankans and non SA blacks compare according to you? No wonder this country is a mess with idiots like you on both sides. I actually cant believe anyone is so backward that they think genetics define intelligence alone. I believe nutrition and education give some an advantage. You are a racist twat and om embarrased to share my pigmentation with you

      johan.mostert.967 - 2012-12-13 08:03

      This is what IQ vs Race research has shown:

      thulani.b.kiviet - 2012-12-13 08:06

      @george. What amuses me is that this jakalas dude is trying so hard to sound smart. He is actually trying to drill his stupid point in. It hurts my feelings really

      Killbot79 - 2012-12-13 08:19

      But it does deny them employment, thats why it's called AA idiot.

      jj.jeno.1 - 2012-12-13 08:45

      Lionel, you're just as much of an idiot as Jakalas. Gauteng is Hollywood? You do know that not all black people come from Limpopo or the Eastern Cape or KZN right? I was born and raised in JHB and as you put it "made it" to the middle class here (I'm 25 still working on moving up), where is my back up plan if I fail? We're not jealous of the white middle class jack*ss, we're all working hard to improve ourselves and quality of life. You have a very skewed perspective.

      mondli.khumalo.16 - 2012-12-13 09:33

      @jakalas.Kruger mybe your right BS chromosome means BULL SH#$T chromosome and by the look of things you have a lot of it in your DNA. People like you must be castrated and be deprived a chance to produce babies.

      lnd.leroux - 2012-12-13 11:08

      It may have something to do with a victim mentality. Nobody owes you anything – get the work because you are good enough not black enough. Then the most important part is doing the work consistently on a high performance level. Your ability to get work and keep on doing it has nothing to do with skin colour but a lot with attitude!!!

      customdesign - 2012-12-13 11:42

      Race will matter until people are judged by skin colour and laws are put in place to divide us. Current legislation is more divisive than constructive- so inline with Zuma's statement about democracy - the majority is more equal than the rest.

      marc.hugo.75 - 2012-12-13 13:18

      Johan M., these are excellent scholarly works that present irrefutable data and inescapable conclusions. Arthur Jensen had done some of the most remarkable and exhaustive work in the academe. What I find is that the general public is quickly exhausted by the level of detail presented in such research as well as the complexity of the findings, preferring to receive their rationales in short, comprehensible soundbytes. The other hassle is that the vast majority of the population have made up their minds (or have had their minds made up) already. To have facts exposed to them that are, or might be, at odds with those beliefs is very unsettling for them. However, you will find many who are scholars of Jensen, Baker, Herrnstein, Shockley etc and thus are better informed.

      edward.patterson.923 - 2012-12-13 16:15

      @gert.swart; If you are right (according to my calculations which have been known to be flawed in the past) that R650Billion would have built 13,000,000 RDP homes. If you assume (and yes assumptions can be flawed as well) that there are 5 people (on average) to a household that would be housing for 52,000,000 (that's million) people. What is the population of SA? That doesn't take into consideration those who already have houses and those who received RDP houses in the last 18 years. What a startling revelation, every SAican would have a house with money left over for electricity and education, just from the money that was lost to corruption. Maybe it's time that the government is held accountable.

      edward.patterson.923 - 2012-12-13 19:15

      Realized that I didn't add much background in my previous comment (see below). The background would be Maslov's hierarchy of need. Race will be a much greater issue when a large majority of people are spending all of their time looking for food and shelter, when a great majority are living below the poverty line and living in shacks in informal settlements. And when those who only point out the problem and are able to identify someone to blame are the only ones who are heard, then race is the major issue. But when people have a roof over their heads and clean water and electricity and jobs many of the issues of race will dissipate. When it is corruption that is stealing literally millions of those homes, and when corruption isn't addressed and those same people who now live in poverty see no hope of moving out of that poverty. Then those who only identify race as the cause of the problems but offer no viable solutions then race will be the major issue. And while it is an issue in SA because her past, solving housing, education, basic service delivery will go a long way to solving the race issues in SA. It seems to me, I don't have all the facts and figures, if the issues of corruption and wasteful spending that could have built millions of those homes, brought quality education to millions and service delivery to millions, then all that is being looked for is to FIX THE BLAME AND NOT THE PROBLEM. Any one can fix blame, it takes a great person to fix the problem.

      salee.sithwell - 2012-12-13 22:52

      Johan.mostert - do not forget to read the comments at the bottom of your links, and to then read the authorities cited there. The genetic argument is garbage; and is meant to back up an old, albeit, less refined argument, which was required to justify the scramble for Africa. The argument is no longer required, but some inferior thinkers still hold on to it, for nothing more than egotistical reasons. The genetics argument is not unlike insisting that the sun revolves around the planet earth, because "we can observe it moving around us everyday". Producing stats and the like is not unlike producing meticulous calculations of the sun's changing position in support of the argument that it revolves around the earth. In response, superior thinkers will laugh, cry or sigh and ask themselves, how can such a clever species (man) produce such idiotic thinking? How is it possible?

  • Mbuso Siera - 2012-12-12 22:58

    he is speaking sense nd reality...

      jakalas.kruger - 2012-12-12 23:42

      No. he is talking nonsense. Stupidity causes poverty it is not poverty that causes stupidity....something that people overlook when they want to redesign society.

      lacrimose.wolf - 2012-12-13 00:24

      @jakalas.kruger - if the only thing you own is your racial identity, it's a tragedy. To continue to live in a society where it seems that is all you will ever own, that is a travesty.

      jakalas.kruger - 2012-12-13 02:01

      Lacrimosewolf, the only time white people gets concerned with their racial identity is when they get discriminated against based on their racial know like with the current reversed apartheid laws.

      brionyl.french - 2012-12-13 05:29

      Look whilst we still have culture and customary laws we will be holding ourselves back from the 21st 22nd century! We are not in Medi-evil times as many of you have commented... Yet we are. Look at the homelands... Look at Traditional leaders, Look at the whitch doctors and the belief systems... Once you grow your beliefs and your mind you exit the cultural customary medi evil times... You cant have a cell phone, BMW, Nice mansion and then slaughter animals and dance around in lion clothes and so on.... If you want to be seen as serious then maybe you should all grow up, shut up and work hard!!! Nothing in life is free and the sooner everyone realises this the sooner our country can work... oh and Jackals is right... the universities will let in black kids who are barely making the grade over A+ white kids because they the wrong colour and the quota system is in place... Blacks get donations left right and centre because of BEEE basically saying because of your black skin you get this but the poor whites in Krugersdorp arent allowed to be donated to because they not black enough.... Never mind its because of the BEEE that they homeless, jobless, food less and so on... This is a double edged sword and no matter what you do your gonne cut your hands off so put it down and play nice

      boere.troos.5 - 2012-12-13 14:48

      The problem with the black man is that he lives in denial of his own short comings. He has been given the chance to excel and be illuminated by the rays of education, and prosper radiating from previously white establishments, yes he has even been given the advantage of affirmative action although he is in the majority and not a minority, he is further advantaged by BEE and numerous State empowered preferable hiring practices and promotion advantages, the list could go on and on and on...Yet he still blames the Whte man for his short comings, He still percieves the White man as his slave owner and seeks to blame Apartheid on the White man for everything and anything in not only this land...but the world over ??? African american preacher Manning states that there s "something wrong with the black man" - yes he even goes as far as to illustrate that a thousand years ago the black man lived in huts, never errected a monument, and built nothing higher than 1 level. I strongly sugest to the black man en woman of this world to take a new look at themselves and to accept that they should stop blaming other people for their own problems. Stop living in denial. My people the Boers have come a long way and one day again we shall govern ourselves. We will help the black man to become what he can but you must stop blaming everything on Apartheid and the White man. I agree with Jakalas Kruger - stupidity is the brother of self inflicted poverty - Hatred is the father of destruction.

      salee.sithwell - 2012-12-13 17:37

      Er, boere.troos - The VERY few people in the US who know about "Pastor Manning" dismiss him as a fool, who has a congregation of two, hence his having resorted to YouTube. People in the US laugh at how ignorant he is; and how he assumes everyone is at the same level of ignorance, pretty much like how white supremacists assume everyone is like them. Manning is a black inferiorist. People laugh when he says things like "in the whole of Africa, black people never built anything higher than the ground floor back in the past or even read...", - when googling something as simple as "Timbuktu" (never mind anything else you've heard) would convince him otherwise. Be careful not to feed your ignorance by listening to ignorant so-called preachers. There's a lot of ignorance on YouTube. You'll end up being laughed at, just like they are. Rather do yourself a favour, and read a book about how genetics work. Your post is the result of your own ignorance, not your genes. Luckily, ignorance can be fixed. I doubt you are stupid. You just don't know any better, because you also happen to be an intellectual victim of apartheid. There are more ignorant people in the world than there are stupid people. Most people are of average intelligence. You can give yourself a fighting chance by waking up to the fact that the world is bigger than "the Boer"; and does not really care much about all of "this stuff". Travel, read, talk to people of any race. You'll be surprised at what you will LEARN.

      boere.troos.5 - 2012-12-13 20:41

      Sorry but being so ignorant as the 2,5 million hits some of Pastor Mannings mission has recieved - I am inclined to believe him. Now for you to say he is inferior says to me you think you are superior ? This pastor has a huge following in the USA and other church denominations and members go along with what he says. Genetics as you say are important - I suppose that is why most black people dont like or respect whites, it comes from a long way back. If anyone can bring me proof to disprove what pastor manning has said - let him step forward and give the proof to dispute what he has said. Untill then - I rest my case and one more thing..Being ignorant and of normal intelligence I realize that my people - the Boers are a unique people and we dont think ourselves better than others we are kind of humble, we just dont blame everything on everyone else if we screw up - like some people do. We Boers also know the world out there we are not as ignorant as you claim us to be, yes, we have been oppressed and boycotted by most of the western world - due to the squeeling, jibbering, begging terrorists whom we have given a chance to prove to the world that they can be a civilized society. Sadly to this day it seems..there has been no change. Thus..If you remove affirmative action, discontinue BEE and your african versions of retro apartheid - perhaps you will be able to change our minds ? However - I am sure you will not and cannot change the route you have taken. Prove me wrong !

      tasmee.hylkema - 2012-12-13 20:45

      Salee! well said! I don't accept that the "Boers" are a superior race, and the sooner they see it, the better for healing the nation!

      salee.sithwell - 2012-12-13 22:44

      2.5 million hits ( i.e. viewers from all over the world) against 360 million US citizens, against just under 7 billion people. Sure, dude. If that's what it takes for you to believe things, knock yourself out. Justin Bieber has more impressionable, teeny-bopper twitter followers than Manning has repeat hits. I do not care as much about proving you wrong as I do about making sure that people reading this realise that you are one of only a few loud, ignorant ones.You and your preacher Manning. To prove you wrong, all I have to do is point you to your own comments.But that's after you have read a book or two. Anyway, I did not say he is inferior. I said he is an inferiorist - In the same way that your being a supremacist does not make you superior. On the contrary, it exposes your inability to exist outside your racial identity and/or Afrikanerdom. I did not say boers are ignorant. I said you are ignorant, but then I forget you are Mr Afrikanerdom and you are attached to your whole race. Afrikaners are clever enough. They are of average intelligence like everyone else is. They have some outliers like averyone else does. You know what, this is not worth my time. Dude, how old are you? By the way, do not stupidly assume I am of a certain race just because I am calling you out on your pseudo-stuck-in-south-africa-science.

  • Poetry Pencil - 2012-12-12 23:13

    I always mention this on forums bt ppl say im being negative and causing speration between races. its reality we gta admit it n make an effort to change it. ~Indian~

      john.fourie.18 - 2012-12-13 06:48

      IMHO, find out why this is and address it at that level. Rather try and change perceptions than to force your way of thinking onto other people, because that is always met by resistance. (speaking to people in general and not you specifically). To be honest, I think that you will find in firms where there is Black ownership (that is, the firm is for all intents and purposes owned wholly by Black people), those firms will tend to hire only Black people. The converse is also true. White owned firms will employ mostly white people. The reason for that is simply social, not racial. Again, just my opinion. For instance, I get along better with Black people that identify more with "Western" culture than with Black people who identify more with African culture. It is not racist, it is just that African culture is not within my frame of reference, so naturally, I choose to socialize with people who think and reason similar to me. This is not saying that my culture is better than your culture. It is simply what I know and choose to engage with. For instance, if I was in France, among a bunch of white South Africans and white French people, I would tend to talk more to the South Africans, because we got more in common. I think that if you could mentally get people to cross that cultural gap, things will change in that Department.

      john.fourie.18 - 2012-12-13 06:50

      My hypothesis then is that a white person will rather hire another white person, not because they think a black person inferior, but because they believe that a black person will not fit in, in a predominantly white office. Is this racist? I don't know. Is it discriminatory? I believe so. Is it true only for whites? No way.

  • Kagy Mogoere - 2012-12-12 23:20

    its de horrible true n we have to accept hw this is the reality we r living in

      grant.chancellormaddison - 2012-12-12 23:33

      Well go talk to the government about it, oh wait they don't care about the people of this land no matter what colour your skin is mate.

      be.els.33 - 2012-12-13 00:02

      Given your badly written post it's not surprising you are unemployable ... Except in a menial job. Learn to write decent English if you want a decent job.

      sekalf.nroc - 2012-12-13 08:51

      what are you mumbling? Take an English course and try again to contribute to society .

      tasmee.hylkema - 2012-12-13 20:54

      Its sad Kagy, that you are on a forum where you have the platform to prove to others here that are clearly demeaning the african people as fellow human beings through the level of their intellect. Why don't you take on the challenge, write clearly and eloquently get your message across in a manner that will show those people that they have no right to speak the way they do? Your comment is so badly written and does not convey any message except that your spelling and grammar is atrocious. Educate yourself, work hard and join the rest of us!

  • luviwe.jay - 2012-12-12 23:21

    We need to have an honest debate as south africans ans dispel this notion of us africans being lazy coz we look for opportunities and the reality is that are too far inbetween and are difficult to come by especially we who are not connected without established family businesses. This is so true. We are talking with graduates so put asside this argument of get education first.

      swessels1 - 2012-12-12 23:47

      I will agree that it is hard. I myself did not come from a rich family. my father is a policeman and mother a state nurse. So it is not easy to work your way up. But the part about the education I do not agree with. You are seriously wrong. Without my education that i got in school and after school I can say I have a good income way above the average for my age. So in other words. Education is a vital part of your future and quality of life.

      christelle.theron.3 - 2012-12-13 00:10

      Luviwe, I agree with you! And I will probably be shot down for what I am about to say. Our past has caused a certain social ethics gap. You have a young black child (now educated) coming from a informal settlement where no discussion ever took place about social and economical issues. The price of insurance was never discussed, the influence of the oil price on the petrol was never discussed (I am sure you understand what I am trying to say) That child will have, despite his education, a lag that a child who grew up under "normal" circumstances might not have. This is something which we HAVE to address when we teach our children. And Please, do not misunderstand me, I am not saying this is the 100% rule, but certainly something which needs to be considered.

      luviwe.jay - 2012-12-13 00:30

      Swessels you must understand that the argument here is about graduates who find it difficult to get absorbed in the system not school leavers nor people who dropped out. I have got a degree as well in Internal Auditing but I find it hard to secure an employment, because of various factors of which I touched on some of them on my first post. Our background as black South Africans cannot be brushed aside and the current climate of you must know someone up there to secure a job and even promotion at times and that can drive you to the edge when people with less ability and qualifications are looked at ahead of you in a work place. Re-read my first post and respond.

      lacrimose.wolf - 2012-12-13 00:34

      It's a lazy perception to decide it is all laziness. The real frustration is at the lack of aspiration and/or innovation. Good enough is the norm, when we live in world where it's about the survival of the fittest. It may seem like a race struggle but really it's a values struggle. Everyone would like to live in the land of Hakuna-Matata but it totally clashes with the expectations of the world we live in today

      sterling.ferguson.397 - 2012-12-13 01:34

      Japan was a country with no natural resources developed in a world economic power. Asians countries with no natural resource have developed economically even though, they were one time under colonial rules. In Africa with natural resources the people are worst off today then they were under colonial rule. There are those that are saying that it is African culture that keep them backward. Africans are going to start looking at themselves and ask what are they doing wrong.

      jacqui.daanevanrensburg - 2012-12-13 09:58

      Swessels1. Good on you. Most black students do not come from families that can afford to send them to university and thus have to depend on grants and we all know that those are not exactly the fat pots of Egypt. Maybe whites have it easier.

  • braam.groenewald.39 - 2012-12-12 23:22

    Jip the only reason why those "white" people got employed is because their white and not because some of their parents was smart enough to get self employed... Guess BEE never saw that coming... But let's blame that on appartheid toooooo that must be the logical explanation, or no wait let's blame on slavery, or no wait it was the germans in the. 2nd world war.

      henk63 - 2012-12-13 08:40

      Yes, maybe they thought BEE would leave whites whimpering on the sidelines. Yes, BEE is destroying the economy, and here is a recent example: A friend of mine builds RDP houses. Problem is he is a white male and can't get the contracts. The contracts are given to a black female who knows nothing about building, so she signed my friend on as a subcontractor and he does all the work. The price agreed on is on par with what he would quote per house, so he still carries on regardless. Or so he thought. The black female contractor who knows nothing about building and doesn't have to lift a finger, get twice or thrice the money my friend would get. The money just rolls in and that is the sort of contract everyone would dream of. Unfortunately the devil never sleeps. Lately, the scent of money became so overwhelming that she keep inventing excuses not to pay the real builder. She who knows nothing of building now suddenly "inspects" his flawless work and strut about like an expert, finding imaginary faults everywhere. It is clear that she has sinister plans, and my friend recently called her a skelm in her face (to which she threatened of cutting him off altogether). Problem is these things happen everywhere, all the time. AA and BEE and whatever will bleed this country dry.

  • vuyisan - 2012-12-12 23:30

    well it took me seven full years to get a job that I qualified for but as black as I am, I am not gonna blame white people for my own failures. I had an average of just over 60% on my academic record but really should I really blame whites for that? I don't think so, if there is anything to be blamed is this AA where by the time I graduated(2002) big companies like Eskom were forced by Thabo Mbekito employ only female graduates. I hate BEE and all these racist policies because they don't even help black people

      luviwe.jay - 2012-12-13 00:49

      True they don't in anyway. It is not about blaming anyone but the scarcity of opportunities especially to blasck graduates.

  • steward.debruin - 2012-12-13 00:01

    Self fulfilling prophecy anyone? How they expect anything to change, while at the same time continuously bringing it up I would like to know. We don't expect a lot. Just do your job, stop the corruption and fraud or at least take it seriously and do something about it. Then you will see how quickly the race issue fades. Prove yourself competent and the people will support you even more, contrary to what you might believe. We just want more results, fewer excuses.

      luviwe.jay - 2012-12-13 00:45

      It will always come up because of socio economic imbalances which are still embeded in our societies as we speak. To prove your competence you need to be given an opportunity of which are har to come by as per the survey that is getting us to talk. We won't get anywhere as a nation if we are not honest about this debate.

  • nick.collis.16 - 2012-12-13 00:11

    Jakalas your comments are absurdly racist! Have you ever considered that a European climate along with a scarcity of natural resources by comparison with Africa may have been a huge factor in the development of European history . I am no scientist but I am prepared to bet that any differences between the races and what you term "genetic potential" is more a socio/cultural difference than an inherant one!

      lacrimose.wolf - 2012-12-13 00:40

      Not to mention Attilla the Hun, the Roman Empire etc etc. All these rulers and events happened in Asia, Europe. Africa, especially Southern Africa, has missed out on all of that. Which is what makes Africa unique and fascinating. We're too obsessed with an European yardstick as if it is still the epitome of all things. At a certain point in history, it really didn't matter, now we're all about to become history because somewhere along the line might became right.

      jakalas.kruger - 2012-12-13 06:32

      Nick, open your live in a racist country with racist laws that discriminate against your skin color, that is the reality. Only a fool will ignore this fact.

  • renier.lubbe.7 - 2012-12-13 00:22

    Fat lie!!! Most companies advertise AA applications only. Whether it is against the law or not. If it was true why are there so many unemployed white graduates?

      luviwe.jay - 2012-12-13 00:39

      Your argument does not hold water. Here we are talking about the time a white graduate will spend before is absorbed by the system. I won't go to the numbers and the country's demographics because by doing so we will be opening another can of worms.

      renier.lubbe.7 - 2012-12-13 23:34

      @luviwe: The real can of worms is the reservation of jobs. In the past it was for whites now it is for people of colour. For the country the best would have been if the most capable got the job. The colour of your skin should not be part of the criteria.

  • willem.haarhoff - 2012-12-13 00:24

    @jakalas.kruger - either you are a trol or you are hopelessly ignorant. Dude I think you need to pipe down and travel the world a bit so as to broaden your horizon.

      jakalas.kruger - 2012-12-13 06:36

      Neither my friend, been there and done that....reality is all around you, just open your eyes and look past the propaganda.

      willem.haarhoff - 2012-12-13 09:44

      i'd have to go with trol then

  • peter.stock.988 - 2012-12-13 00:46

    If you want it and work for it race is never an issue ....

      lacrimose.wolf - 2012-12-13 01:22

      Well, in a world where there are no Unions and no Public Sector workers and every member of the planet is rational and no one group dominates over another and there are no traditional beliefs (which includes all religions) or international conglomerates trying to convince you that their 'ethical' chocolate bar is worth R35 when it costs them 35 cents to produce. Then the 'wanting it' vs 'working for it' gets a bit skewed

      salee.sithwell - 2012-12-13 04:11

      All I know is that when I drive to gym at 4:30 am, I see a lot of poor black people working their work to work - as in walking to catch the taxi to work. Winter or summer. It's the same for them. I think these people work longer hours than most of us. They want it. They are working for it. But they don't have it. They never will, notwithstanding their being the hardest workers in the land.

  • sterling.ferguson.397 - 2012-12-13 01:16

    @Matthew, the US only give Visa to the most educated African and this is why the most educated group might be Africans. However, professor Walton that won a Nobel prize in genetic, claims that the average African IQ was seventy and they could never develop. He claims that the average African American IQ was ninety plus and this was caused by racial mixing. He also claims that the East Asians and Jews had the highest IQ in world. There are those that claimed that this theory is all hogwash because the environment plays a great role in lives of various groups.

  • darryl.cronje - 2012-12-13 02:54

      johan.mostert.967 - 2012-12-13 15:50

      Well said...

  • lskosana3 - 2012-12-13 03:24

    It is good to honestly look at the facts before getting all defensive, and those white people who said they are more intelligent because of genetics need to get themselves educated. Environment plays a critical role in the mental development of a child, if you have money and an education you can afford the best mental stimulation for your child. If I grew up in a squatter camp with unemployed, uneducated parents how can I be expected to be way smarter than a white kid born with a silver spoon in her mouth despite genetics allowing for us to have similar intelligence??

      sanet.oelofse - 2012-12-13 05:35

      The fundamental difference here is that families of other races, consider these factors before they have children, this is not about racial inequalities but of sound life choices, this however widens the gap, because it doesn't stop, kids are now having kids.

      lskosana3 - 2012-12-14 08:13

      What you are saying is true Sanet, it would be great if our people would just wake up and just stop this crazy vicious cycle, then maybe we'd, slowly but surely, correct the inequalities.

      sanet.oelofse - 2012-12-14 15:36

      Children don't ask to be there, we make those choices for them.

  • Ddatruth - 2012-12-13 04:02

    If a certain sly animal called Jakalas is so smart what kind of education has he got,it seems to me he thinks out his gat

      jakalas.kruger - 2012-12-13 06:40

      Just enough, and your thoughts on the issue is....?

  • douglas.reid.921 - 2012-12-13 04:23

    WRONG! Race will matter forever. The difference between the races relates directly to their cultural ideology. Africans and Japanese are different and that will be so for a very long time. Why? Culture, language, physical appearance, value systems, morality, etc. No amount of legislation or wishful thinking will make africans the same as japanese. These differences are deeply ingrained. To imagine that legislation will succeed in making pigmentation the only difference between blacks and whites is futile.

  • - 2012-12-13 04:39

    Blacks need to wake up nd smell da coffe,people say nationalisation of mines will bring us economic freedom!how so?cause we lack da skills and knowledge to run this mines ,i think we have to focus on da education system and stop this mentality of entitlement.

  • Ddatruth - 2012-12-13 04:56

    It's not about black and because we human

  • Muffin_man_can - 2012-12-13 05:19

    Thumbs up to you, success needs to be earned, it doesn't happen overnight

  • mark.job.338 - 2012-12-13 05:31

    How can Friedman talk about 'races' as if people differ on a biological level. Just the use if the term legitimizes an 'us and them' mentality. To suggest that this is acceptable in the SA context is even worse given our history. I interact with different people and communities - the concerns of poor are the same across the pigmentation line, and the same applies to good / bad people. The continued use of the idea of race allows the architects of apartheid to partly achieve their goal -making us believe that there is a hierarchy and is the very same ideas led to the death of 6 million Jews.

      nomfezeko.quvana - 2012-12-13 10:51

      the origin of 7 spicies...... people fill in the gaps. reading is powerful, i think.

  • mark.job.338 - 2012-12-13 05:37

    You've mistakenly bought into the idea that there is a biological foundation for the idea of race. Have you also bought into the idea of a racial hierarchy?

  • fairness.iseverything - 2012-12-13 05:42

    I find it odd that a influential platform such as N-E-W-S-2-4 can so easily publish only part of a report and end it as if its the whole report. There is vast parts of this report missing in this article. Its almost as if they like to swoop people up in a very particular way. This report is misleading in many ways. Before you make your conclusion, consider what is not being said here. - 2012-12-13 10:00

      that's media for you

      fairness.iseverything - 2012-12-14 00:09

      @kagiso. I am not refering to the debate but rather the information referenced in the debate. It was referenced out of context and achieved what a news platform like this loves - attention, lots of it.

  • peter.fraser.92754 - 2012-12-13 05:43


  • andre.vandeventer.16 - 2012-12-13 06:16

    Race is always a factor and it is worldwide!

  • Tiaan Liebenberg - 2012-12-13 06:17

    People, stop kidding yourself. Race (ethnicity?) has always been, and will always be, an issue in any given society. This BS of a rainbow nation is only ideological thinking

  • fabian.houten - 2012-12-13 06:26

    From experience its not that a white person gets a job straight after graduation, its that they searched and secured the job long before they graduated. I don't know what other people do but, the thing is, you have to plan ahead. You can't wake up the day after you graduate and expect to walk into a job, it a competitive world out there.

      fabian.houten - 2012-12-13 06:45


  • sakhile.makhathini.7 - 2012-12-13 06:26

    Its true what Friedman said, there is one employer for Blacks the govt, most big private companies are owned/ run by whites. One can also name the educational system as a factor, it doesn't produce ready 2work graduates. Some hv computer science studies, technical drawing, motor mechanic, laboratories etc while some don't even have a textbook and we all know where all these schools are found and also hw much they cost. The only thing one can do s 2try and make every child rcv the best education bt race wl matter 4generations 2come

      Chrismuku - 2012-12-13 06:49

      you are right our education system is very poor it does equip one for job requirements,u need 2b trained again@work level

  • louis.nolte.3 - 2012-12-13 06:35

    Less than 1 out of 10 people in south africa are white, more than 8 out of 10 are black - that's what the latest sensus tells us, so I'm sure there are opportunities for them to get work. I have 4 degrees and had to start my own business because there wasn't something worthwhile available at that stage. Stop using everything under the sun as an excuse and start working.

  • celine.t.joyce - 2012-12-13 06:42

    I just want to say to all the white people who do not live in Europe - you were never invited to come to Africa, America, Australia, New Zealand or any other non-European country. All you did was bring greed and discord to countries that were going about the business of living. Do you really think that anything you brought has improved the way natives all of the world live - NO, you shoved the natives to the fringes, taught them envy, greed, to want wealth, hate their brothers and step on their mothers to have more than the next man. These are not natural characteristics of natives anywhere in the world. Instead of priding yourself on the advancement of the world, you should purge yourself for turning it into the place it is where all instincts are driven by greed. There, white people is your superior gene. You have a proven track record of turning natural law into man-made discord. Anywhere that there is racial discrimination is a place where a white man has "explored". Anywhere there is poverty and social discord, a white man has "discovered". So, when you say you brought mines, roads, dams, farms, etc., please remember YOU WERE NOT INVITED. No one asked for your help or your diseases. The land your forefathers "took" when they landed in these countries actually belonged to someone before they got there, so how can you now lament the natives taking back what was righfully theirs to start with? You own nothing anywhere else in the world but Europe. Enough said!

      nico.eksteen.7 - 2012-12-13 06:52

      So, go trade in that nice car of yours, leave your nice job and sell your big house..and go sit by the fire in the bush. IIs that what you really want?.. because that is the way it would have been if the white man did not come to uplift the lot here in Africa. BTW, if you are not a Bushman you don't belong in South Africa either.

      celine.t.joyce - 2012-12-13 07:12

      Believe it or not @nico.eksteen.7 most natives were happier doing exactly that - sitting by the fire in the bush. Are you happy to assume that there would have been absolutely no advancement without European occupation? Do you not find it just a bit conceited to assume that natives cared about the kind of "advancement" the invaders aspired to? Had there been any kind of uplifting, you and I would not have been having this conversation. I am not a bushman and I don't live in South Africa, but that does not exempt me from expressing my belief.

      rodney.chenge - 2012-12-13 07:19 sound like an individual who is full of prejudice and superiority complex. They have a word for that. If you do not argue with what was said above, now is not the time for you to piss of people with your lack of sensitivity. Many white people will not be proud of you. The dutch didnt invent any cars anyway. They invented a system of hate and they must shut up. The white community got of easy. Now they whine. What Mugabe did seems to be the only way to deal with unrepentent people. Otherwise, You start taking natives for granted.

      rodney.chenge - 2012-12-13 07:19 sound like an individual who is full of prejudice and superiority complex. They have a word for that. If you do not argue with what was said above, now is not the time for you to piss of people with your lack of sensitivity. Many white people will not be proud of you. The dutch didnt invent any cars anyway. They invented a system of hate and they must shut up. The white community got of easy. Now they whine. What Mugabe did seems to be the only way to deal with unrepentent people. Otherwise, You start taking natives for granted.

      Kelly Macnamara Oosthuizen - 2012-12-13 07:27 are clearly warped. you are not south african so please stop commenting on a south african site you have no stake here. i was born here as where my parents and their parents and their parents. we are rebuilding a nation that was broken by a handful, my family fought oppression even though they are white! I ask you if you do not live here refrain from commenting. your found wanting. enough said

      longile.bongani - 2012-12-13 07:28

      Maybe the europeans should have learnt their lessons from Dingane or Chaka Zulu. They should simply have conquered and destroyed when they arrived in Africa. Then any descenting voices like yours would have unceremoniously been shut once and for all. And there would now be peace.(The african way)

      Richard Tichauer - 2012-12-13 07:28

      and for reasons like this our country will never move past these issues.

      khethu.ndlovu.3 - 2012-12-13 07:49

      Nico, you are just an ignorant, idiotic white settler, when your forefathers came here they didnt have cars or bridges with them, what they had was deases and lice. They left their countries becouse they were ravaged by desease (cecil john rhodes) some just wanted a place to refresh and get fresh produce (jan van rebieck) they infested us with their desease, forced the bible on us, given us their education, which in fact did not help our couse but tamed us to conform to white man's ways of life. If you feel that you brought diamond and gold in africa please take it along with your deseases and leave us sitting arround bush fires, gues we were better off sitting on those fires, eating what we liked when we wanted, than this suffering and poverty the white man has brought in africa and everywhere they set their condemned foot at, no nico, we were absolutely better off without the pill and your planes...

      allan.rosenberg.752 - 2012-12-13 07:52

      @Celine I totally agree with you. From now on I would expect you to redirect all your people to hospitals that are cared for by which doctors and ill ask General Motors to start producing donkey carts as the new form of transport. All throw away your cell phones and introduce drum signals to your people as your ancestors did. Never a truer word said

      celine.t.joyce - 2012-12-13 07:54

      @kelly that I do not currently live in South Africa does not mean I am not a South African. I am born and bred in KwaZulu Natal and my ancestry goes all the way back to the very ground you walk on - I am a Zulu!! I own the right to express my opinion on the place that is my home. Oppression you say??? Do not assume I am ignorant to oppression or it's evils.. Whilst most of my rights were stomped on during the aparthate era, the one right that could never be suppressed is MY right to express my opinion about what matters to me and my brethren.

      Bob - 2012-12-13 07:54

      So we're all settlers - is that what you're saying? I didn't realise that us whiteys are all over 400 years old! We must have all personally arrived in SA with Van Riebeck and therefore all of this is our doing! Nonsense aside, we played no role in colonization so if you've got a problem with it you'll have to go take it up with a guilty individual's grave. Also, you've got to ask why it happened at all. Our ancestors built ships, cities, etc.. it was in their nature to be curious about what was out there and also to manipulate the environment to their advantage. The white man dominated the world, and if your ancestors actually progressed beyond mud huts and spears they could have defended themselves and prevent being dominated. If anything, colonization was just a form of natural selection. Also: blacks are also settlers in southern Africa. Nobody asked your ancestors to come here from northern Africa.

      ckiddo - 2012-12-13 08:12

      Celine - Educate yourself before commenting! Since 1818, the Zulus had been welding themselves into a formidable fighting machine, mopping up minor clans and building an empire. Fainthearted opponents had simply fled to the mountains, abandoning their farms and leaving the land deserted. It was not long however, before the Voortrekkers crossed into Zulu territory in what has now become known as the KwaZulu-Natal Battlefields. Conflict was inevitable. The Massacre Retief, at the head of the Boer wagon train, did try negotiation. King Dingane promised him land if he would recover 7,000 head of cattle stolen from the king by a rival Tlokwa nation. Retief did this, returning to Dingane's camp with his son, 70 Boers, around 30 mixed race servants, and the cattle. Although dated 4 February, 1838, the cession treaty was signed by Dingane two days later on 6 Feb. Then all went horribly wrong. Dingane took a fancy to the party's horses and guns and demanded to be given those as well. When refused, he seemed at first to take it in good grace but as the party was getting ready to leave two days later, he called them together for a final drink. As they were gathered around, unarmed, he accused them of witchcraft and massacred the lot. It was an act of betrayal that destroyed what little faith there was between the races for decades to come. When their bodies were left out for the wild animals according to the Zulu custom, it only enflamed Boer anger and hatred further.

      Edmore Chitokomere - 2012-12-13 10:35

      well, what can i say?

      henk63 - 2012-12-15 08:46

      @Celine - Your view is the typical delusion that blacks were living in paradise until the white man showed up. There was conflict between all black groups when the white man showed up, and it was the white man that brought peace to many parts of the world. To back this up, read some of the many diaries that the settlers wrote, and use your head. In many cases the peace had to be enforced, which the blacks saw as oppression. In many cases the black conquerors actually ate their victims, and in some parts of the world it is still the done although in secrecy, but whites largely put a stop to that. It is nice to imagine a nirvana where your ancestors ate what they wanted whenever they wanted, but in fact they had a hard life, eating roots and tubers most of the time because game was too fleet footed to kill with spears. The diseased was discarded until the white man came with his medicine. Whites introduced many cultivars of food, imported from other parts of the world. Whites made life easier, whether you want to accept it or not. The biggest mistake the white man made was to introduce Christianity, from which the blacks deduced that all our sins are already forgiven so they can kill and steal whenever they want. You will always blame the white man for everything, but deep down at night before you drift off to sleep, for a small second you know the truth.

  • nico.eksteen.7 - 2012-12-13 06:43

    I'm starting to think if it would be better to have my own tuisland but not Orania? Let's face it, this rainbow nation pipe-dream is not looking as if it's going to work soon if ever. South Africans are too racially divided. The one blames the other and trust between groups seems to be very low. Not looking good.

  • fairness.iseverything - 2012-12-13 06:47

    We only see and hear what we want to at our own peril. We choose to recognise only the facts that suits us. We decide when when we are racist and when we are not. We will say and publish anything for a cheer regardless off its accuracy or impact. We like to pass the bucket, point the finger at someone else and we choose to sacrafice tomorrow because today is just too important. Is this you?

  • Patrick Khambule - 2012-12-13 06:47

    i agree with most of the guys when they that blacks fail to plan. steve Biko wrote that we only react when we are faced with the situation. whites plan in advance thus they are always prepared and ready for the results. we start applying after high school at universities, we look for jobs after university. racial issues are still not sorted out we agree. the party hasn't done much to eradicate this issue or try to resolve it. blacks are still blacks in the labour markets.

      khethu.ndlovu.3 - 2012-12-13 07:01

      Speak for yourself man, its not true that by default being white means you plan and by being black means you dont, there are many poor and unorganised whites, and very successful ones, that also is the same with blacks, be black and be proud!

      Barefoot - 2012-12-13 07:58

      ha? Hitlerish aren't you? it's all in yer genes hey? the planning and organizing gene.

      fabian.houten - 2012-12-13 08:36

      @khethu - Yes there are exceptions but in general its true.

      solo.mathe.5 - 2012-12-14 16:53

      Patrick, I don't know which backward school you went to, but mine took us to visit different universities and do career research. So by the time we finished exams we knew where and what to study. I guess your mentality its not your fault as I can assume that there are schools where this was not done... the Biko statement probably applied more during that time ... Or it was to motivate more blacks to take charge of their lives, which is not uncommon in the black society. Don't generalize though cos your experience is not always that of the majority...

  • willie.botha.9480 - 2012-12-13 06:48

    I wonder how representative this survey is. Because my experience and the experience of many of my colleagues says differently. most of my applications at big companies were rejected because of me being white. And it still happens today !

      nico.eksteen.7 - 2012-12-13 06:56

      Yes and the public sector is a no-go zone for any white male.

      solo.mathe.5 - 2012-12-14 16:45

      Most of my applications were rejected because they could not take all of us, but then I'm used to that but you are not, so you read something else into it.

  • longile.bongani - 2012-12-13 07:10

    People need to realise that race will matter for a long time to come, political analyst Steven Friedman said on Wednesday. The racial hierachy that existed before is still part of society, he said at a debate in Constitution Hill. IT HAS REVERSED, BLACK PEOPLE TREAT WHITE PEOPLE WITH CONTEMP AS SECOND CLASS CITIZENS,THIS ATTITUDE IS SUPPORTED BY THE STATE,THE POLICE ETCnot much has changed in the past 18 years. He referred to a recent survey conducted by the University of Johannesburg which found that 18 years into democracy it took black students about three months after graduation to find a job, while white people with the same degree got it straight away.YOU NEED TO LOOK BEYOND RACE TO SEE WHY THIS MAY BE TRUE. OTHER ATTRIBUTES CONTRIBUTE TO A PERSONS APTITUDE FOR A JOB APART FROM QUALIFICATION. ALSO REMEMBER BECAUSE OF THE QUOTA SYSTEMS AT UNIVERSITY, IT STANDS TO REASON THE WHITE GRADUATES WOULD PROBABLY HAVE BEEN BETTER GRADUATES in said those in the economic elite needed to be aware of certain realities. THEY WILL ALWAYS REMAIN AWARE OF THE BEST INTERESTS OF THEIR COMPANIES. THAT MEANS EMPLOYING THE BEST PERSON FOR THE JOB. IT APPEARS GENERALLY THAT FROM PAST EXPERIENCE, WHITE PEOPLE PERFORM BETTER. reality was that some people lived in extreme poverty. BIG BUSINESS ARE NOT AND NEVER WILL BE CHARITY. THEY WILL NEVER EMPLOY PEOPLE(TO THE COST OF THEIR BUSINESS, IF IT DOES NOT MAKE BUSINESS SENSEAnother reality is that It isn't so easy for black people to slot in properly into the economy, he said. We are in a process of change but that change hasn't gone as far as it could.

      Bob - 2012-12-13 07:24

      You might want to double check your caps lock key because it seems to be randomly going on and off...

      rhino - 2012-12-13 07:54

      Bob bob bob ... there is a reason why she did it.... ai!

      Bob - 2012-12-13 09:22

      Rhino: really?!? No way!

      solo.mathe.5 - 2012-12-14 16:42

      Black people do not treat whites with contempt. Don't know where you got this from. Maybe you and your friends are not used to a black person talking back (they never could before) so you get offended and feel mistreated. Get over it... We can tell you where to get off now without fear of repercussions...

  • vmeiring1 - 2012-12-13 07:17

    And your point is?

  • sakhile.makhathini.7 - 2012-12-13 07:21

    Can we once as a nation look 4solutions for every issue that we face rather than throwing insults depending on which race we are. Can't we channel the energy that we have to force govt 2provide quality education for our kids. Force all public servants 2send their kids 2public schools

      Hein Van Wyk - 2012-12-13 07:52

      agree with you there

      Louisa Fouche - 2012-12-13 08:16

      well said, sakhile!

      sandy.sutherland.58 - 2012-12-13 09:13

      Hear hear - best post on here in a long time!

  • max.rapea - 2012-12-13 07:24

    This is serious issue that'll take sometime to resolve and is of urgency.

  • allan.rosenberg.752 - 2012-12-13 07:31

    Hey Steve, are you grappling to keep your job?

  • pierre.jonker.16 - 2012-12-13 07:36

    fact is that the graduates that get appointed get appointed on merrit nit becuase if skin cilour. let all the candidates for a position sit a requirments test and select the best one. This colour issue is a crock. Let the best man/woman get the job.

  • karabo.phetoane.9 - 2012-12-13 07:52

    That's what we will have to see in a long run,what I believe and know is that the ANC will prevail after any leadership squabbles because its not about individuals but the organization.

  • truthis.tway - 2012-12-13 07:59

    His statement is diplomatically saying that the ANC have done nothing more than pick their noses for 18 years.

      Peabo Siphelele Mkhize - 2012-12-13 08:25

      Actually, he's diplomatically saying that the ANC has good policies but white business people haven't came to the party with regards to implementation of affirmative action.

  • rob.bayliss.94 - 2012-12-13 08:00

    Eugenics has been discredited (rightly or wrongly) since the Nazi period. But there are plenty of research papers showing that IQ is associated with nutrition and many suggestions that it is also associated with education. Whilst these findings are sometimes objected to, it is pretty obvious to me that if a child is poorly nourished and/or poorly educated that child is going to be challenged. Focus on this and more importantly, on fixing it, and not only will it bring sanity to these discussions it will also point to appropriate actions.

  • joshua.sematla - 2012-12-13 08:14

    I've said this before, I'll say it again a black man has to fly to get to something that a white man can just walk in to.. With that being said I don't think its a south African issue, African Americans struggle with the same thing hence we have policies like AA. So yes a white person is likely to get a job straight away after graduation than their black counterparts no matter the 'merits'

      Hein Van Wyk - 2012-12-13 08:26

      hahahaha ok whatever makes you sleep @ night

      Brian Dorning - 2012-12-13 08:49

      sorry but blacks have been in power for almost 20 years now, don't mean to rain on your parade but statistically proven a white male is most 'disadvantaged' when it comes to work opportunities. How many whites do you see in government? Because they don't get hired. BEE has forced business to give shares away to a black person, who may not have earned it, to become BEE accredited. Its reverse apartheid in SA now. I hope that all of our children and us may get appointed for our skills, and not because of 'quota'. This comment isn't aimed creating racial divide, as i am a black South African myself. AA and BEE and government related tenders etc has just made connected blacks very rich while our poor still starve!

      solo.mathe.5 - 2012-12-14 16:35

      Brian, you are the other version of black. And, statistic show that whites are still getting those jobs faster than blacks and they are more in high positions than blacks. So, I don't know which stats you are talking about here...

  • Killbot79 - 2012-12-13 08:20

    This wild eyed geek is pro ANC anyway, when he speaks I normally have a good laugh.

      gucci.mei - 2012-12-13 08:26

      if u treat ur leaderz as a joke they will treat u as a joke , common sense?

  • Ze Don - 2012-12-13 08:44

    If you had a business and wanted to employ someone. Who would you hire; the person who passed with distinction, or the one that barely managed to scrape through with 30 percent? My point is that race shouldn't be a criteria anymore.

  • Brian Dorning - 2012-12-13 08:51

    Your spelling is a joke!

  • danie.smit.587 - 2012-12-13 08:53

    I attended a post graduate degree course at NMMU about 10% white students the rest black. Only once did a white student from 400km away arive late for class, He slip into the back , without disturbing any one. Not one lecture start with all the black students in attendance. They arrived talking to each other clearly audible from way down in the passage, in groups a hour or more late. The varsity was so scared of being racist that they just tolerate it . Condeming the student to be unemployed, as they have not tough them responsibility. Do employers expect black students to be irresponsibly, because the varsities did not do their work and tough them responsibility , as they scared of being called racist

      achaava - 2012-12-13 09:32

      i went to nmmu to...which campus are u on about...coz usaly the passage is always filled with ppl chating and when u open the door..the noise travels in...and wat student in their rite mind wud walk into a Hour and half lecture at a hour late..south campus they dont tolerate that...oh fyi iv seen 'students' black and white come late all the time...and some just get there...drop thier name on the register and ur black white notion is flawed my friend

      johan.mostert.967 - 2012-12-14 07:18

      No offence achaava, if you went to NMMU, how come your spelling is so terrible?

      solo.mathe.5 - 2012-12-14 14:23

      Why do you complain about being called racist when you cleared like jumping at any chance to post racist comments. Even when it has nothing to do with the article, you find a way to air your racism. And everyone makes spelling errors, regardless of the level of education... Its so juvenile to say, but you make more errors than me, so you can't be that educated...

      henk63 - 2012-12-14 17:45

      @Johan - that's why nobody want to hire them. If someone doesn't spell properly it shows his lack of attention to detail, and he will have no chance of getting a job with me.

  • enzo.sinisi - 2012-12-13 08:56

    Can someone please help me understand why so many racists bigots with delusions of grandeur are attracted to commenting on this site??? It really doesn't matter how well argued or intellectually sound an article or even comment is. If it does not say "Whites are great, Blacks are bad" a pile of soft brained individuals dive in a find some way of saying this or pointing out why the article was wrong for not saying it. This happens he other way around too, but less often. No one stop to even think about the validity of these categories. What the hell is White? Is it the vastly groups of vastly different people who have in the last 300 hundred years shown that they are from Ireland, Italy, Holland, Spain, Turkey, Greece, Germany? Are these people the same? And who is Black? Do you mean Zulu, Shangan, Khoi, Xhosa, Sotho Indian, Mauritian and now even Chinese - WoW? Are you really so slow as to think that there is some kind of essential similarity that holds these groups together under two stupid and simple headings: Black or White? The only two things holding these groups together is 1. Political Agendas and 2. Ego Agendas i.e. the wish to feel super smart and clever without having to actually achieve anything, when all you are is an ordinary fool trying his best just like the rest of us.

      beki.khumalo - 2012-12-13 09:00

      Well said!

      dvmabina - 2012-12-13 09:24

      You deserve a bells. Thats what i call a person emancipated from mental slavery.

      solo.mathe.5 - 2012-12-14 14:13

      'Clapping hands'...

      henk63 - 2012-12-14 17:51

      You are right Enzo. The thing is, we all look at each other and what we do. When we see a bucnh of people carrying on like idiots and they are all green, it is easy to assume that all green people are idiots. That is probably the wrong assumption to make as there may be some extremely clever green people elsewhere on the planet, problem is we've never seen them. To us then, clever green people doesn't exsist.

  • el.torro.509 - 2012-12-13 09:12

    Is there any sort of research into the types of companies that employ these graduates? My hunch is that an unintended side effect of bee is the proliferation of small white owned businesses who are more likely to employ their own children or friends children, whereas black students are left to fight for the few positions in big corporates or public sector. If anything to my mind it shows a failure of bee to provide opportunities for smaller black owned enterprises and a railroading of young black graduates to be mere paper pushers.