Zuma wants gang situation assessment - Zille

2012-07-18 07:56

Johannesburg - President Jacob Zuma wants an assessment on the gang situation in Lavender Hill and Hanover Park on the Cape Flats, Western Cape Premier Helen Zille said on Tuesday.

He had asked the ministers of defence and military veterans, and police to give him a report on the situation there before making a decision on her request to call in the troops, she said in a statement.

"While I acknowledge that it would be prudent for the president to consult with the ministers, the situation in the affected areas has reached crisis levels and we cannot afford undue delays if we are to prevent the further loss of innocent lives," Zille said.

In a letter to the presidency last week, Zille asked Zuma to deploy soldiers to gang-ridden areas.

She asked for troops to be sent at once to Lavender Hill and Hanover Park, where there had been a "serious spike" in gang-related deaths.

At least 23 people, including seven children, had died in recent months.

In her letter, Zille said the deployment of the SA National Defence Force in gang hotspots over December had markedly improved safety levels.

Police Minister Nathi Mthethwa and Defence Minister Nosiviwe Mapisa-Nqakula were sent copies of the letter.

Mthethwa reportedly said the army did not have the equipment to fight gangsterism in Cape Town.

"The army doesn't have the equipment the police have: it doesn't have rubber bullets, it doesn't have water cannons," he said.

  • bones.mine - 2012-07-18 08:10

    Is Mthetwa about to get a slap? lol

      Zip - 2012-07-18 09:07

      zuma is the biggest gangsta

  • - 2012-07-18 08:10

    Mthethwa you p.ick. It's a gang war, not a demonstration. They're not killing the kids with rubber bullets and watercannons

      alf.pop - 2012-07-18 08:34

      Mthethwa does not have the mental equipment to be minister of police. He shouldbe forced to be present during a gang shootout in the front line! Who said people need a brain to live? Mthethwa is doing quite well without gray matter!

      arthur.hugh - 2012-07-18 08:54

      Live fire. Yup, exactly what's needed.

      maokeng.mankge - 2012-07-18 09:28

      Mthethwa nid 2 get new spectacles..Oooooh no w8 a minute ws h sober whn h said water cannons n rubber bullets 4 gangsters.sounds lyk h dsnt knw d different between protesters n gangs.Catch ur w8 up wena uMqu

      Alonso - 2012-07-18 11:51

      @maokeng; This is an website, no need for this bbm language. Please type & spell properly.

      richard.hipkin - 2012-07-18 12:44

      @Alonso, stick to the article and stop playing the man..

  • carolyn.myburgh - 2012-07-18 08:12

    Here's the assessement it's all out gang warfare and innocent kids are being shot!!!! FIX IT

  • nigel.vanysendyk - 2012-07-18 08:16

    It doest have the will either, strange how when the ANC controlled the Western Cape, they had no problem deploying the army in these area, I am so sick of their lies & deceit, Western Cape, take note, The ANC doesn't give a rats ass about you, we know who not to vote for next election, don't we.

      Barefoot - 2012-07-18 08:41

      Oh lets look at this last year December the Western Cape was run by the DA and the army was deployed, your comment still relevant?- not an ANC supporter just hate foolish uninformed comments.

  • Emily-Jane Elson - 2012-07-18 08:17

    Real bullets etc are fine.. Eye for an eye hey?!

      nosiphom.mazibuko - 2012-07-18 09:12

      Water cannons and rubber bullets are definately not the answer - the army has the right equipment.

  • harryhobbit - 2012-07-18 08:21

    Zuma the African knows how to deal with violence. Its probably one of the few things he does know how to fix.

      harryhobbit - 2012-07-18 08:37

      Sorry I forgot to mention his other talents. Vote buying, bribery, coercion, hanging out with dodgy buddies, clinging on to power and drowning out any one else. Very African indeed.

      tsheko.sereme - 2012-07-18 08:42

      African knows how to deal with violence??? Please eloborate!!!!!!!!!

      themba.thwala.98 - 2012-07-18 08:48

      You must be a european social anthropologist. Please explain why people like still have tp spend a fortune barricading myself in my house and also paying a private security company to keep my family and property safe if Zuma is as good in fixing violence as you claim

      Michael - 2012-07-18 08:59

      @Harryhobit,he only knows how to spark it off and not the other way around

      harryhobbit - 2012-07-18 09:05

      @Themba - My condolences to you for the double blow of being African and a woman. You must take a lot of abuse from the non-coconuts. How do you feel about the non-coconut culture?

      themba.thwala.98 - 2012-07-18 09:37

      Harryhobbit, here's the deal. I'll enter into discussions with you as soon as you can take your brain out of your backside and start using it. So meet me halfway here buddy

      harryhobbit - 2012-07-18 09:58

      @Themba - If you want to enter a discussion, then please refrain from manipulative, abusive tactics like derogating my intelligence. I simply want to understand how African women feel about non-coconut Africans. My perception is that they are overtly sexually aggressive, chauvinistic, manipulative, dishonest and they get abusive towards any women willing to stand up and resist this treatment. What are your thoughts?

      themba.thwala.98 - 2012-07-18 10:05

      My thoughts are ... Let me think ... FU!

      silindile.mabaso.9 - 2012-07-18 10:14

      Do you enjoy being racist, harry? Living in a country with so many black people you must utterly miserable. Shame.

      harryhobbit - 2012-07-18 10:20

      @sindile It might surprise you that I am actually not a racist. What I am is a culturalist. I have nothing against coco-nuts. They are educated, useful, will help you make money, will add to your life. Thats in contrast to the non-coconuts. They are just dead weight. I am not a racist. It would be more accurate to call me a culturalist if such a thing existed.

      harryhobbit - 2012-07-18 10:26

      @themba - It's ok because that's a typical reply I've come to expect whenever there is no defence. Want to break the pattern? P.S. FU is verbal abuse by the way. Are you capable of non-abusive discourse when you are defending an indefensible position?

      silindile.mabaso.9 - 2012-07-18 11:28

      Then u know very little about black people and you are exposing your ignorance. The term 'coconut' is incredibly insulting to quite a few people, implying somehow that we are less african. I can speak english, study at university and yet still believe in my culture (ancestors and all)... I contirbute to society but remain true to my African roots. Educate yourself buddy, before you risk sounding more foolish than u already do.

      silindile.mabaso.9 - 2012-07-18 11:32

      And as for violence and war being African attributes in your mind... You might wanna take a look at the countries in the Northern Hemisphere... Constantly at war, and always trying to find new ways to kill each other, with better weapons. Guns are not an african creation. Again... Educate yourself.

      harryhobbit - 2012-07-18 11:36

      @Silindile - what is the term for Africans who "I can speak english, study at university and yet still believe in my culture (ancestors and all)... I contirbute to society but remain true to my African roots" in your words? I have no problem with that. What do you call it? Or is it just one step ahead of being labelled coco-nut as well?

      harryhobbit - 2012-07-18 11:43

      @silindile - I didn't mean to suggest that Europeans don't do war or violence. In fact they are very good at it. What I meant to suggest, is that the non-coconut (whatever the new term is) are only capable of violence, and manipulative actions, unlike Europeans. They almost completely have no ability to make non physical, non-violent, non manipulative contributions. In Zuma's case, he demonstrates the ability to recruit thieves, convicts, murderers and gangsters. He doesn't have anything else in his repertoire. If he had made a positive contribution besides manipulative talk I think people would have been blown over with surprise. Sadly, any non-coconut will behave the same or worse. No ability to contribute anything but stone age human behaviour. Can you think of any counter examples?

      harryhobbit - 2012-07-18 11:45

      @silindile P.S. your characterization of speaking english, studying and contributing sounds a lot like a description of Madiba. What do you call that? Why is he not called a coconut?

      mark.ross.779 - 2012-07-18 11:48

      Silindile, don't waste your time with this oke.. He's trying to sound smart and is making general sweeping terms and backtracking the whole time.. Shame, let him believe what he wants

      harryhobbit - 2012-07-18 12:08

      @Joe - not a heated argument. Just an honest one, where no abuse and avoiding the argument occurs. Its about time I think.

      harryhobbit - 2012-07-18 12:11

      @Mark - Looks like you're also only capable of abusive tactics like derogating my views and calling me "shame" worthy. If you have a problem with what I said, I suggest you point it out so we can address it. Really, just because you're white doesn't make you any less a Neanderthal if you have to use abuse over reason.

      mark.ross.779 - 2012-07-18 12:22

      Harry, we've conceded bro.. You won. Well done

      harryhobbit - 2012-07-18 12:43

      @Mark conceded what? No-one has answered my questions? I certainly wasn't asking for your white opinion. @Sindile and Themba P.S. This is not a contest. I just never ever get straight answers about this topic. Will someone please humour me? Pretty please. I really want to know how the Africans feel about this issue.

      sharon.a.marks.9 - 2012-07-18 13:43

      @tsheko - it looks like polly has changed his name to harryhobbit and he is giving you guys a bit of stick for a change

      harryhobbit - 2012-07-18 14:00

      @Sharon - Nope not Poloy. My only reason for asking these questions is because they are always met with denial instead of counterargument's. I think these questions have to be sincerely addressed in order for any reconciliation to occur from conservative whites. African denialism is not helping at all. At least if we can talk about what the problems are, then we can understand what the problems are, then we can see if there's any point in working together, or just carry on excluding each other.

  • ganon.nhubunga - 2012-07-18 08:23

    The best run province!!

      Poloyatonki - 2012-07-18 08:31

      Clearly you dont live here in the western cape.

      peter.ndamase - 2012-07-18 08:39

      Tell that to Gugulethu, cape flats residence... and yeah to all parents who lost their children on recent gang shootings. Cape is good for the minority! Not you!

      clinton.badenhorst - 2012-07-18 08:39

      Neither do you Troloyatonki!

  • thapelophankge.mathabatha - 2012-07-18 08:27

    Real bullets a for real since they are not killing children with rubber bullets, deploy those soldiers as soon as possible.

  • Poloyatonki - 2012-07-18 08:38

    Your Metro Police are useless, they are only good in arresting easy targets like yesterday in Claremont, making a big scene just to take away a phone from a motorist.

      ricky.hammer.92 - 2012-07-18 09:10

      Aggg polony, that's all the metro cops in the country. Back in the good old days they were just called speed cops / traffic police. Then your beloved terrorist tripartite organisation decided to increase the forces size and give it a fancy new name and hire a lot of corrupt incompetent bunch of their illiterate empty headed votors and vuwallah. When they stop your wife or gal in Sandton,you hope she doesn't get raped by your anc appointed pals/idiots.

      jaun.lombard.9 - 2012-07-18 10:51 is not the Metro Police's duty to combat is the National Police...SAPS!!! Metro Police are handling crime because the SAPS cant handle it on their own!!! Be glad there is a Metro!!Durban doesn't have a Metro is was run by the ANC and became bankrupt!

  • Kagiso Spat Truthtell - 2012-07-18 08:44

    Where does Zille get off asking for help from our Anc President. She's always bitting the hands that feed her en now she needs help bcoz she's incapable of governing the Cape, its a mess there. Thats wat happens when u feed ppl drugs and working with Cape druglords. I think Zille should resign en let capable ppl run the WC

      themba.thwala.98 - 2012-07-18 08:56

      Zuma is the President of the ANC, and of SA too. I believe Zille is asking her in his capacity as the President of SA.

      steve.ritchie.739 - 2012-07-18 08:57

      You, Kagiso, are like a troll with blinkers on. The Western Cape is by far the best run province. Take some time out to see for yourself just how much degradation the cANCer government has caused in the rest of SA. Or maybe you just don't want to see it. Get your head out of the sand and wake up to reality.

      maokeng.mankge - 2012-07-18 09:03

      Stop being ignorant Zille dsnt hv troops 2 deal wth d situation in CT.dis situation ws lyk even whn d ANC ws in control of d province..It is d responsibility of both ANC n DA 2 ensure safety in d province..Those ppl hu r being killed r ppl lyk u..

      templar.known - 2012-07-18 10:23

      Kagiso, just do me a favour and dont spawn any offspring bud. Stupid begets stupid and trust me, we are all stocked up around here.

      jacqui.daanevanrensburg - 2012-07-18 10:30

      Kagiso, I hope you don't mean capable people like you for instance.

      dee.980 - 2012-07-18 11:16

      Kagiso - staggering ignorance on display in your post. 1. Police and Security are NATIONALLY controlled. Not provincially. 2. When ANC 'ran' W.Cape, they dismantled the highly effective specialised unit that dealt with W.Cape gangs 3. When ANC 'ran' W.Cape - they were very quick to bring in army troops to quell gang violence. So a news flash for you : This is another demonstration that Zuma is incapable of decision making, and ANC govt only willing to help their friends and family - and DO NOT WORK ON BEHALF OF ORDINARY CITIZENS OF THIS COUNTRY. And rather than resign, far more effective would be that W.Cape be given autonomy to reorganise the police and re-establish the specialised units that ANC destroyed.

  • UNITY - 2012-07-18 08:52

    Gee whizz! Has Mtethwa lost his marbles or the entire plot! Are u in the land of living, or a fairytale?

  • maokeng.mankge - 2012-07-18 08:53

    What assesement JZ dd u d 1 b4 u slept wth HIV positive women..Dis gangs r killing innocent kids in Capeflts wht more d u want send those troops now..U wasting time D*mt

      maokeng.mankge - 2012-07-18 09:15

      Dis “president” dsnt sound lyk a human being or father of kids myb dis gangs shuld kill 1 of his kids its whn h cn deal wth situation..

  • Michael - 2012-07-18 08:58

    Wheres Pagat these days.

  • Nyiks11 - 2012-07-18 09:10

    I used to do network support for libraries in the western cape in the 90s and one day at the Bishop Lavis public library the gangsters stopped me and ransacked my laptop bag and made off with a router in full view of the security guard. I just hope over the years the situation hasn't escalated to the extent of selling drugs on the stoep of the library

  • themba.thwala.98 - 2012-07-18 09:14

    JZ wants a report while innocent lives are being lost. He sees a snake where people's lives are in danger, he will appoint a Commission of Inquiry that`ll take 3 months and then another month preparing a report. He will then take another 8 months before his speech writer writes down what his response should be. Eish, ANC please, get rid of this liability at Mangaung

      maokeng.mankge - 2012-07-18 09:18

      80%of tenders r granted out of procedure,y does it hv 2 b a process 2 deal wth Gangsters in dis country does h enjoy d killings.I wix d gang cn kill 1 of his kids so h culd feel d pain d Cape women r gng thru..

  • duma.nkabinde - 2012-07-18 09:40

    What has been requested by Zille is that the president deploy the army to deal with the effects of gang violence (the killing of innocent people) but she is not worried about getting to the root of gang related atrocities in the WC. Gangsterism is fuelled by drug peddling, crime and most of all structural poverty accompanied by an inferior public education system.

  • vivian.harris.73 - 2012-07-18 10:12

    Assessment?! M*****f*****! People are being killed! What more do u want to assess?

      vivian.harris.73 - 2012-07-18 10:17

      Bet my ass if those gangsters were killing black people there would be action!

  • trotseafrikaner.rsa - 2012-07-18 10:18

    You dont need rubber bullets or water. It's not an riot idoit. Just go and do some work for a change lazy army.

  • jacqui.daanevanrensburg - 2012-07-18 10:25

    Let's hope Zuma is more fortcoming that his minister of defence.

      jacqui.daanevanrensburg - 2012-07-18 10:33

      Dear me, my brain is dead this morning. Minister of Police ofcourse

  • sbongezulu - 2012-07-18 10:48

    What's there to assess?

      dee.980 - 2012-07-18 11:21

      How best to turn it into a political points scoring exercise, how to protect any cadres involved with the drug trade, and how to get a kick back?

  • warwick.railton.7 - 2012-07-18 10:56

    Martial law and curfews is what the Army will enforce. They are not policemen, never will be. Declare a state of emergency and declare martial law DA. And when this bites you in the rear with the people stoning the Army out, don’t be at all surprised. The tighter you hold your grip, the more slips through your fingers. The Army (or what’s left of it) cannot be used to police its citizens, but used to crush its subjects. The DA has no solution this this real problem, but the Army is not the answer. The Army will not listen to the Police and vice versa…… where will the co-operation come in. I have no real solutions, but free people do know that the Army is not the answer – leads to further oppression. I was in the townships in 1990 with an R4 rifle………..I know.

  • silindile.mabaso.9 - 2012-07-18 11:15

    You cannot just send the army into civilian areas without first making a proper assessment of the the situation, and deciding what the role of the army will be exactly. Gosh but a lot of you are incredibly silly and short-sighted. Esp when it comes to Zuma. Grow up.

      dee.980 - 2012-07-18 11:30

      If this was the first time, I would agree with you. However - when ANC was running W.Cape: - they dismantled the specialised SAPS units trained for handling the gangs - deployed army troops quite frequently - did so again as recently as December And as much as I agree that army troops should only be used in civilian areas under the most dire situation - have you heard any practical plan from NATIONALLY CONTROLLED SAPS Minister, or Phiyega on the rampant violence that has claimed >20 people in recent months?

      silindile.mabaso.9 - 2012-07-18 11:56

      And I'm sure when they were running the WC, Thabo Mbeki assessed the situation before deploying the army... And just because the ANC hasn't got a better solution, it does not mean what Helen Zille is proposing is correct. She too agrees with Zuma wanting to consult his ministers first, I don't know what you are all up in arms about. And if the ANC deployed the army on numerous occasions, and the gang problem STILL exists, surely its OBVIOUSLY not working!

      Alonso - 2012-07-18 12:05

      @silindile, have you had military training? You are right, the military cannot just deploy. What should happen is that Zuma tasks the military to assess the situation. They will send in the military intelligence who will investigate & assess, and get back to the command with a strategy, then only will the military deploy the troops and equipment needed, based on the intelligence. It is not a minister's task, neither are they capable, to do the assesment.

      silindile.mabaso.9 - 2012-07-18 12:17

      Did you read the article, Alonso? ''He had asked the ministers of defence and military veterans, and police to give him a report on the situation there before making a decision on her request to call in the troops'' So that's exactly what he is doing. And I honestly don't see the problem with that. It appears most people commenting just want the army to go in without any sort of mandate other than to fire live ammunition as they please...

      silindile.mabaso.9 - 2012-07-18 12:22

      The Minister of Defence is Zuma's point of access to the military, or am I wrong? So the assessment will be done by the necessary parties. Ministers delegate.

      sbongezulu - 2012-07-18 12:29

      All these opinions I've heard since Zille proposed having the army in the Cape Flats. This is not about the ANC or the DA. It's also not about displaying military knowledge, civilians are victims of gang violence here.

      dee.980 - 2012-07-18 15:51

      Sili - Gang turf war violence often flares up when e.g. leader of 1 gang dies / replaced so something has changed to cause the latest killing spree they are on. But you are 100% right - OBVIOUSLY Not working is : - Police able to control the current violence - Police ability to shut down the drug houses and factories - Community member trust in the police ..... hence THEIR request for help from the army.

  • Mtshezi Yonk'insipho Iyawasha Mkhize - 2012-07-18 12:11

    The best run Province in the country is safe n nothing is going on, this is all happening in KZN....

      Billy - 2012-07-18 14:18

      strange that the KZN dudes are coming to the WC to look for a better life... gave 3 dudes from the side of a road a lift to the taxi rank the other morning, they shared some interesting perspective.

  • Freedom - 2012-07-18 13:10

    there are over 60 deaths is that not an assessment... Zuma get out china and ur fat bum off the gravy train and DO SOMETHING... all that effect went into the spear holy cow.. I WANT A PRESIDENT THAT IS FOR THE PEOPLE. U LUCK JUJU HELPED WITH UR SEAT.. WHEN IS THE NEXT ELECTIONS? HELEN FOR PRESIDENT!!!!!!!!!

  • Freedom - 2012-07-18 13:14

    The gangs are drug related, all the foreigner are settling in the cape flats coz they are too scared to go to the township.. foreigners that the government ALLOW in our land. why must this happen to us, we can barely survive with taxes, unemployment, food hikes.. now we have to fight off the damn foreigners that brain wash our children with flashy cars and drugs. Zuma win the people over and do something about the gangs!!!!!!!

  • eva.smith.9484 - 2012-07-18 13:50

    Finally, i hope we will get somewhere. Hahehee Mthethwe!!

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