OVERVIEW: 'I am still fearful of Gavin Watson' - Van Tonder testifies at #StateCaptureInquiry

2019-01-29 12:30

Former Bosasa chief operations officer Angelo Agrizzi has concluded his marathon testimony before the judicial commission of inquiry into state capture in Johannesburg, followed by former Bosasa CFO Andries van Tonder on the witness stand.

WATCH LIVE: State Capture Inquiry 

(Courtesy of SABC) 

Angelo Agrizzi has testified before the State Capt

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Last Updated at 14:02
29 Jan 16:25

We adjourn, Van Tonder to continue his testimony before the commission tomorrow at 10:00.

Zondo's request to start earlier will be attended to in due time, as soon as they have finalised concerns regarding statements, Pretorius adds.

29 Jan 16:21

29 Jan 16:18

PP: What do you mean Watson used people?

AVT: He used them to to corrupt things on his behalf and then he would dispose of them. 

29 Jan 16:16
"I am still fearful of Gavin Watson" - Van Tonder says.

29 Jan 16:15

29 Jan 16:11
AVT: I was never told that I was no longer the CFO. There was also no board decision to that effect. 

29 Jan 16:11
AVT: It was not clear what he wanted me to do. He stated in an open meeting that he wanted me on the road. He was setting me up for failure.

29 Jan 16:11
AVT: He instructed that I be involved in the construction of a copper rod manufacturing plant just across the road. He asked me to move there permanently and vacate my office. I did not. 

29 Jan 16:08
AVT: In or about early 2017 despite my position as CFO, my relationship with Gavin Watson deteriorated to the point where he prevented me from conducting my duties. No access to financial information, not allowed to communicate with the banks. 

29 Jan 16:07

PP: Were you involved in presenting evidence to SARS?

AVT: Yes. No, it was not always correct and true. 

29 Jan 16:07

PP: Was there ever an investigation into financial affairs of Bosasa by SARS?

AVT: Yes, approximately in 2015. 

PP: How was the SARS investigation concluded?

Was it successful for Bosasa?

AVT: Yes, SARS ruled in favour of Bosasa in the investigation. 

29 Jan 16:06

AVT: Watson insisted that everyone pray aloud so he could see "where you were at".

PP: Did you at some stage stop attending?

AVT: Yes. It affected my relationship with Gavin Watson. The relationship started to deteriorate when I stopped. 

29 Jan 16:05

PP: You said before you were well paid, and lived a comfortable life.

AVT: That is correct.

PP: There has been evidence of regular prayer meetings? Did you ever attend?

AVT: Initially I did attend the prayer meetings. I viewed these prayer meetings as Gavin Watson, as a tool he used, to determine ones loyalty to him. 

29 Jan 16:04

PP: Your relationship with Gavin Watson, at least initially?

AVVT: Initially I had a very good relationship with Mr Gavin Watson. For most of my working career at Bosasa, we had a good relationship. He would make me feel important. 

29 Jan 16:04

AVT: In August 2000 Hilda Ndude entered into an agreement with Gavin Watson whereby the 10% shareholding Dyambu Holdings had in Dyambu Ops would be sold to Gavin Watson. 

The sale of shares agreement between Ndude and Watson is attached. 

29 Jan 16:03

AVT: At the time Danny Mansell acted as the managing director. 

A consultant by the name of Tony Perry was employed to assist in the running of the business. 

There were three parties that had shares in Dyambu Operations: Danny Mansell, Gavin Watson and a company called Dyambu Holdings. 

29 Jan 16:02
AVT: I was told they (Watson and Mansell) were the new shareholders and would be responsible for running the business. Meritim's name was changed to Dyambu Operations. 

29 Jan 16:01

AVT: Mr Fanie van Zyl called us into a boardroom, there were more people he was going to involve in the company to bring more business. 

This was Dyambu Holdings - and along comes Gavin Watson and Danny Mansell. 

29 Jan 16:00
Andries Van Tonder: I first became involved with Bosasa in 1995. I was at the time employed as a financial clark at Meritim Hostels. I was interviewed by Dr Jurgen Smith. 

29 Jan 16:00

PP: You will be given a transcript of the evidence by Mr Agrizzi surrounding the video, and if you will please study it and tell us whether you agree or don't agree with the aspects of the testimony?

AVT: Yes. 

29 Jan 15:59

PP: There has been substantial evidence relating to the content of the video. But from your own memory, can you recall who was in the vault at the time?

AVT: Johannes Gumede, Papa Leshabane, Gavin Watson and myself. 

29 Jan 15:59
AVT: I placed my cellphone in my top left hand pocket. I was not aware at the time that the camera was not focused on Mr Watson. I was very nervous. It was 28 March 2017. 

29 Jan 15:58

AVT: I took the video to show Gavin Watson did indeed have his hands on the cash, and was very much involved in it. 

Agrizzi asked me to take it when he became aware that Watson wanted to pin all the bribes and corruption in him. 

29 Jan 15:58

29 Jan 15:51
AVT: Venter told me about photographs of myself and my two young nieces at a restaurant. 

29 Jan 15:51

PP: Were you ever the subject of threats?

AVT: Around the time I left Bosasa, I received a call from Peet Venter who said there were dangerous people involved with Bosasa. 

29 Jan 15:47

29 Jan 15:47

PP: Why did you not deal with law enforcement agencies before now, and why cooperate with commission now?

AVT: I became complacent in the unlawful conduct I was part of. There was an SIU investigation at the time, Gavin Watson ensured me at the time he had everything under control. 

29 Jan 15:46

Pretorius asks Van Tonder if he is aware that he will implicate himself, and that none of the offenses he will testify to were reported to the authorities as the law requires. 

AVT: Yes. 

29 Jan 15:43

"So help me God" - Andries van Tonder is sworn in. 

29 Jan 15:41

29 Jan 15:39

29 Jan 15:39

'"I've commited the next 6 months of my life to making sure this gets uncovered," Agrizzi says. 

"Thank you for the way you treat me, even though I'm not worthy after what I said, " Agrizzi tells Zondo, ahead of concluding his testimony.

29 Jan 15:24
Pretorius: We will also prepare a supplementary affidavit to deal with range of issues. 

29 Jan 15:23
Pretorius: Various parties will apply to cross examination. At that stage, we will have received versions of other parties and will put such to Mr Agrizzi before he is cross examined. 

29 Jan 15:23
Preotorius: Prior to contemplating signing the agreement, you were offered R10-million, with the condition I signed quickly. Agrizzi adds they wanted him to address letters to the NPA saying he made a mistake, and withdraw press statement. 

29 Jan 15:20

29 Jan 15:18

Zondo points out a clause in the agreement that states the terms and conditions of the agreement must be confidential. Why? 

Agrizzi: Because its illegal. 

29 Jan 15:08

Agrizzi claims that he suggested to the Watsons, that they all come clean together. Agrizzi speaks of the fact that he told Andries van Tonder that he had a duty to report corruption. 

Andries van Tonder then sent a message to Gavin and the other Watsons: Sorry chaps, no chance, it seems Angelo has made a final decision to come clean. 

29 Jan 15:01
Texts from Jarrod Watson to Andries van Tonder - Jarrod indicates his appreciation that Van Tonder was "here to mediate". 

29 Jan 15:00

At 17.14 she says am I missing something regarding the emails. 

(Referring to Agrizzi's email rejecting the offer.)

29 Jan 14:59
Brian Biebuyck responds: "I have no idea what has caused this change of attitude." after Agrizzi rejected their offer of R50-million over a few years in exchange for his silence. Agrizzi submits text message exchanges from around the same time.

29 Jan 14:55
"Once again everyone contemplated their own resolve at my expense," Agrizzi wrote. 

29 Jan 14:51
"It is common knowledge that Gavin Watson is 70 years old and has moved all his assets into trusts" - Agrizzi wrote to the Watson clan. 

29 Jan 14:49

29 Jan 14:45

Agrizzi: I sent this to Daniel Witz on 7 September 2018. Attached to this document, is the actual email. 

29 Jan 14:45
Agrizzi: Annexure ii is a document sent via email from Jarrod Watson to Andries van Tonder, this was the first draft of a proposed agreement Jarrod had drafted. If you look at the second page, I actually refer to the attorneys as well. 

29 Jan 14:44
The messages are on 21 August 2018, the same day Agrizzi released his press statement that he would be revealing all. 

29 Jan 14:41
Agrizzi: Annexure KK is a series of text messages between myself and Valence Watson, this is the son of Valence Watson (Gavin's brother) - we called him Khosi. 

29 Jan 14:41
We're back. Agrizzi has produced some documents relating to the agreement he signed with Bosasa. 

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