AS IT HAPPENED: Motsoaledi insists he knew nothing about #LifeEsidimeni project

2018-01-31 09:35

The Life Esidimeni arbitration hearing continues in Parktown, Johannesburg where Gauteng Health MEC Dr Gwen Ramokgopa has taken the witness stand.

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Last Updated at 22:21
31 Jan 20:47
Moseneke officially closes the Life Esidimeni arbitration hearing.

31 Jan 20:23
Motsoaledi says he is unable to shed some light as to what happened. He says this shouldn't have happened - not even to your worst enemy.

31 Jan 20:22

31 Jan 20:20
Motsoaledi says the marathon project goes beyond embarrassment. 'I feel people have been betrayed and I also felt betrayed as the Minister of health. This has tarnished the health system of the country.'

31 Jan 20:11

31 Jan 19:28

31 Jan 19:27

31 Jan 19:26
Motsoaledi says he sent instructions that the affected NGOs must be closed down to prevent more people from dying. He says he told the MEC and HOD that he appointed a task team to check all the NGOs. 

31 Jan 19:19
The former MEC says she initiated the investigation with the ombudman, Moseneke asks. Motsoaledi: Well, if she did, she did it before me, I don't know about it.

31 Jan 19:16
Motsoaledi: I was getting tired of people who, actually receive bad treatment from health care facilities.

31 Jan 19:15
Motsoaledi says he wanted to understand from Mahlangu how people died in NGOs in large numbers.

31 Jan 19:11
MoreAsked when he became aware of the number of deaths. Motsoaledi says when #QedaniMahlangu told the Legislature that 36 people had died.

31 Jan 19:10

31 Jan 19:07
Motsoaledi says if it was him he wouldn't have discharged anyone unduly unless there was a court order.

31 Jan 19:04

31 Jan 19:02
He insists that only doctors have power to discharge patients. He also says the doctors have more power than him as a Minister of Health.

31 Jan 18:57
He says it is wholly the duty of the doctor to discharge a patient ... 

31 Jan 18:56
Motsoaledi says he wasn't aware patients were being moved to NGOs. 

31 Jan 18:45
He says moving mental patients to NGOs did not constitute de-institutionalisation because NGOs are still institutions.   

31 Jan 18:43
Motsoaledi says he does not know where the word "de-institutionalisation" of the healthcare systems comes from ... 

31 Jan 18:30
Motsoaledi says he has been asked 'why I don't fire MECs. I cannot do that'. The premier hires and fires MECs, he says.

31 Jan 18:29
Hutamo asks Motsoaledi to take the hearing through his relationship with the provincial health dept. Motsoaledi says his relationship is one that is guided by the constitution. 'Meaning that powers are exercised nationally and provincially.'

31 Jan 18:29
Motsoaledi asked which period he was appointed to the positon of Minister of health. He says he was appointed after the 2009 elections.

31 Jan 18:29

31 Jan 17:51
Moseneke announces a 15 minutes adjournment. 

31 Jan 17:47
"There must be deep shame from us," says Ramokgopa, adding that "we let down the most vulnerable". 

31 Jan 17:45
Moseneke says Ramokgopa "has been part of the healing" in the hearing. 

31 Jan 17:43
Crouse is done with cross-examination. Adv Dirk Groenewald is up next. 

31 Jan 17:36

Crouse: What systems do you have in place to ensure that you are aware of court cases, especially cases dealing with human rights?

Ramokgopa says there was no process in place. 'We now do have a protocol of managing legal cases.'


31 Jan 17:31

Ramokgopa is asked to give families assurance that the tragedy won't happen again.

Ramokgopa agrees. She says the Gauteng mental health marathon project cannot happen again.


31 Jan 17:08
Stein asks Ramokgopa about the total cost of the project. Ramokgopa says she cannot tell the full amount just yet. She says the additional costs were around the staff and relocation.

31 Jan 16:59
Stein resumes with cross -examination.

31 Jan 16:57
Moseneke says he would like to close the hearing - it can't go on forever.

31 Jan 16:56
Hutamo says they are not in a position to give a date on when the verification will be done. He says they can only rely on the office of the ombudsman to assist.

31 Jan 16:53
Moseneke wants to know why they can't get a cut of date for the verification of the names. He says there must be a date and if they seek extension they should approach him in chambers. 

31 Jan 16:51
Moseneke says he is not going to have another sitting of oral evidence. 

31 Jan 16:48
Hassim says they haven't agreed on when the exercise will be completed. 

31 Jan 16:47
Adv Adila Hassim says it is correct that they have accepted the proposal that the verification exercise be undertaken by the Ombudsman.

31 Jan 16:45
Hutamo says they have agreed that there is a need for the names to be verified - he says they agree the ombudsman should verify the 12 additional names. 

31 Jan 16:44
Stein: Justice we have agreed that the representative for the State would address you with regards to the list.

31 Jan 16:44

31 Jan 16:12
Proceedings have adjourned so that lawyers can verify the list of 12 bodies that have not been accounted for Life Esidimeni. 

31 Jan 15:43

31 Jan 15:24

Stein: Are you aware there have been 13 deaths in Tshepong in 2016? 

Ramokgopa says she is aware. 


31 Jan 15:20

31 Jan 15:18
Adv Nikki Stein for Section 27 resumes with cross-examination.

31 Jan 14:10

Proceedings adjourn for lunch.

Back at 15:00


31 Jan 14:03

31 Jan 14:02

31 Jan 13:53

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