OVERVIEW: I went through the worst says Mrwebi at #Mokgoroinquiry

2019-02-22 09:36

Suspended special director of public prosecutions Lawrence Mrwebi's cross examination ends with him saying he still believed that he owes this country a sense of gratitude and that he has learnt the art of forgiveness.

mokgoro inquiry
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Last Updated at 09:40
22 Feb 15:38
Mrwebi says he feels "shuttered" when people say he is not fit and proper to lead.

22 Feb 15:38

22 Feb 15:36

Rip asks Mrwebi what is his final word to the suggestion that he is not fit and proper to occupy the position?

Mrwebi: I find that to be a bit insulting.


22 Feb 15:34

22 Feb 15:33

22 Feb 15:24

Mrwebi: ASTT was a Scorpion replacement, an institution between various stakeholders. The idea behind it is to deal with serious corruption, high profile cases. Controlled at a central level. Constituted of a combination of members.

Who has overall control?

By all these organisations. 


22 Feb 15:19

22 Feb 15:19

Second report dealing with loan of R50 000when matter was withdrawn it became known that Venter did not tell the truth, Mdluli never apporoached him.

Transactions was with someone else.The investigation team informed Viljoen of the so-called Kitty held at Nissan. The BMW was paid for from this account.

This kitty was referred to as the 'Baroet account'. 


22 Feb 15:17

22 Feb 15:16
We need to determine whether Mdluli gained or influenced loan in a corrupt manner. The prosecutor is saying that issues still need to be determined before charges can be levelled. 

22 Feb 15:16

Second count: In respect of theft and fraud based on BMW discount. If Mdludli had knowledge of this transaction

Third possible count: Posiible corruption. In respect of the loan.


22 Feb 15:15

Now dealing with first report on 27 Nov 2012:

The prosecutor analyses evidence in the report, referring to witnesses relevant in the matter, prosector summarises them up to page 6. The prosecutor also states concerns. Where he concludes with possible charges that may be alluded against Mdluli. Depending on clarification of deal. 


22 Feb 15:10

22 Feb 15:04

We resume.

Moving on to loan agreement and receiving gratification from Mdluli, evidence now led by Advocate Mervyn Rip. 

Rip: What is the test in a criminal matter for prosecution?

Mrwebi: It must prove a fact beyond reasonable doubt.

The accused does not have to do anything, he does not have to explain himself. The State needs to present evidence in order to prove the case beyond reasonable doubt. 


22 Feb 14:55

22 Feb 14:55

Mokgoro: You said you reported to Parliament at some stage about of the statistics of crime or case resolutions and the particular difficulties you experienced with regards to that? And you end up providing misleading facts? What was that about?

Mrwebi: Im trying to recall but my reference was in the context - when I was talking about the issues surrounding the DSO, except the mention of the ACDT. I had stated that when I was asked about my experience, I mentioned one of the issues that we identified, that would have led to the downfall of the Scorpions was our information that we reported to Parliament that were matters that fell within the mandate of the DSO. The problem started then because we were doing the police work. That's what led to fights between us and the police.


22 Feb 14:35

Bawa: I certainly cannot take it any further.

The judgment was given to both Mr Mrwebi and ourselves. We didn't discuss with our client because he is under cross examination. 


22 Feb 14:32

Mrwebi objects judgement in Jeffrey Ledwaba case.

Are you suggesting that something may have happened?

Mrwebi: My suspicion is during the transcription process..


22 Feb 14:30

Mokgoro: Does Mr Mrwebi agree that transcript is a true reflection of the judgment?

Mrwebi: I'm objecting to the contents of the transcript.


22 Feb 14:20
Mrwebi on context of Yacoob report: Once a report approved, it will be that report presented at CED. A country report cannot go without approval by ministers concerned.

22 Feb 14:12

22 Feb 14:12
Mrwebi: When you report, you report in each step of an investigation. We want to show results and not details.

22 Feb 14:12
Mrwebi: Detection of cases is a responsibility of investigators.

22 Feb 14:09

22 Feb 13:59
Mrwebi: I was giving that information hoping that I would not be exposed...now I find myself in this situation. 

22 Feb 13:58

22 Feb 13:58
Mokgoro: All we need is to get the truth. As soon as you've established the truth, let's move on.

22 Feb 13:57
Mrwebi: I'm very concerned about your attitude. You have become a prosecutor and not an evidence leader.

22 Feb 13:55

Bawa: You draft this affidavit, does the content of your affidavit show a criminal offence?

Mrwebi: No, it does not


22 Feb 13:54

22 Feb 13:52
Mrwebi: it was an investigation into the activities of the DSO. Adv Pikoli instructed specifically that everybody must cooperate with the investigation. 

22 Feb 13:51

22 Feb 13:51

Mrwebi: This was an investigation coducted by the national security council. It was a top secret investigation into the Browse Mole. 

Mrwebi: the Browse Mole was about the DSO acting beyond its mandate..


22 Feb 13:49

22 Feb 13:49
 Bawa: The first meeting that you explained was the meeting on the Browse Mole report where advocate Pikoli tells you 'everybody please cooperate' and you know nothing about the Browse Mole report, right? 

22 Feb 13:45

22 Feb 13:44
We are back from lunch. 

22 Feb 12:53

22 Feb 12:48

Bawa asks Mrwebi if he removed adv Ferreira from the Mdluli case without providing him any hearing

Mrwebi: I don't know if I was supposed to do that in the operational environment. He says if he asked for reasons he would have provided reasons. 


22 Feb 12:48

22 Feb 12:48

Bawa: So the implication was you have been provided with allegations that he (adv Ferreira) was leaking info? 

Mrwebi: yes, I could put it like that. I knew that there were capable prosecutors who could deal with the (Mdluli) matter as well.

Mrwebi: I was not comfortable with hearing that they met with outside parties.


22 Feb 12:45

22 Feb 12:41

Mrwebi says he had been provided with allegations that Ferreira was leaking the matter. He removed him from the case based on the allegations.

Bawa: Without any hearing?

Mrwebi: I don't know whether I was supposed to do that.


22 Feb 12:40

22 Feb 12:39

M: I had no reason at all to believe prosecutors are not doing anything about the matter. Soon after memorandum delivery, there was an application to review decision.

Only after I was adviced in August, that we adviced Dramat of position, in respect of the matter.


22 Feb 12:38
Mrwebi on Ferreira's removal: One of the reasons was that I could not understand this behaviour, Ferreira was always with Breytenbach.

22 Feb 12:35

22 Feb 12:32

22 Feb 12:32

Bawa: Effectively this whole notion of putting the secret service beyond investigation is very evident from this document, correct? 

Mrwebi: Yes I understand, but the point is, I don't know what happened to these representations...


22 Feb 12:30
Mrwebi did not bring allegations to the attention of the NDPP because he didn't feel it was necessary.

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