AS IT HAPPENED: Cops grilled by defence in Panayiotou murder trial

2017-04-19 10:00

The trial of Christopher Panayiotou and his co-accused resumed in the High Court in Port Elizabeth, where on the first day back police officers who were present when Luthando Siyoni was arrested were tenaciously cross-questioned by Panayiotou's defence.

The accused in the Panayiotou case

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Last Updated at 19:19
19 Apr 13:35

19 Apr 13:35

DC: Can we sit tomorrow? 

TP: Unfortunately Mr Daubermann is not available tomorrow, my lord 

DC: Court is then adjourned till Friday 

19 Apr 13:34

TP: You're saying that Chris and his father were talking to each other at the time 

AT: That is correct 

TP: And you can't say if they were talking in Greek or not, because they speak to each other in Greek 

AT: I can't recall 

TP: No further questions 

[Witness is excused]

19 Apr 13:31

TP: We have got the register of the pocket books, we are grateful of that 

TP: We have also got the diary and I read here "Assist with investigations Jayde Panayiotou" 

TP: And on the 29th, "Accompanied to the arrest" 

TP: You agree there is nothing here about Swanepoel warning Panayiotou? 

AT: That is correct 

19 Apr 13:29


19 Apr 13:07


19 Apr 13:06

TP: Well, his father will say he was never warned... 

TP: Are you aware of the regulations around the rules relating to pocket books? 

AT: Yes 

TP: Did you make an entry into your diary? 

AT: I did 

TP: Did you note he was warned? 

AT: I did not make the arrest 

TP: Are you saying that Swanepoel told Panayiotou to sign in his pocket book to accept that he was warned and he refused? 

AT: That is correct 

TP: But Swanepoel does not say that in either of his affidavits 

[TP asks about procedure around pocket books] 

TP: Do you agree that if a pocket book goes missing it needs to be recorded? 

AT: That is correct 

TP: I am happy that I have reached the end of my cross examination, but I would like to get a copy of the diary. 

TP: Perhaps we can take a short adjournment 

DC: Court is adjourned 

19 Apr 13:03

TP: Who warned him? 

AT: Swanepoel 

TP: What did he say? 

AT: He warned him from memory 

TP: What exactly did he say? 

AT: I can't say 

TP: Did he waive his right to an attorney? 

AT: He didn't say anything 

TP: Did he specifically say 'I dont want an attorney'? 

AT: He did not say anything 

19 Apr 13:01

TP: You say, in your words, he was sober and sound of mind 

AT: Because that is how he appeared to me 

TP: So your observations were that he was of sound and sober mind 

AT: Yes 

TP: And then you say he appeared "very sober" 

TP: What do you mean by that? 

AT: Just a form of speech 

TP: You say you were impressed with his appearance, what did you mean by that? 

AT: He was well-presented, well-built and looked healthy 

TP: You say you were there when Panayiotou was arrested

AT: Yes 

TP: On the stoep 

AT: No, outside the house 

TP: You say he was warned? 

AT: Yes 

19 Apr 12:58

TP: Do you mention the interview in your statement? 

AT: No 

TP: Why not? 

AT: It was not relevant 

TP: Why mention it now if it is not relevant? 

AT: I was asked 

TP: Were you aware that there was a recording of what took place? 

AT: I was not 

TP: Are you aware of it now? 

AT: I am now 

TP: So no one told you they were recording him? 

TP: You who are head of the unit, were not aware of it? 

TP: Are you saying that you only found out right now that there is an audio and transcript before this court? 

AT: I was aware of it 

TP: Did you hear one of the detectives say "Naai daai poes"? 

AT: I did not hear that, but I would have objected to that 

TP: And "Get the fucker"? 

TP: Would you have allowed that? 

AT: No 

19 Apr 12:54

TP: And what was the reason of the statement being made? 

AT: To make a statement around the conditions of the office at the time 

TP: Were you asked questions? 

AT: Yes 

TP: Do you see questions in this statement? 

AT: It was a discussion 

TP: Were you aware of the allegations that Siyoni had been assaulted? 

AT: Yes 

TP: Do you mention that he was assaulted? 

AT: No 

TP: Do you say you did not see any injuries? 

AT: No 

TP: When did you interview him? 

AT: It was on the 28th and 29th 

TP: When? 

AT: I can't say the exact time as I was in and out of the office as I am acting commander. 

TP: Do you mention that in your statement? 

AT: No 

19 Apr 12:50

AT: There was a search of a vehicle, in which the cellphone was found in the front panel of the car 

TP: Can we stick to the trial within a trial? Mr Panayiotou has already said he gave his full co-operation. 

MS: No further questions 

TP: Col. Till, did you know you were going to testify last year November? 

AT: There was talk about it 

TP: Why did you not make a statement then? 

AT: I had not been called 

TP: You only made your statement in April this year? 

AT: That is correct 

TP: Is there a hand written version of this? 

AT: No, we have typists who type for us 

TP: You dictated it and it was typed? 

AT: No that is not correct. Capt. Swanepoel took it down and then it was typed. 

TP: And you read it and you are happy with the content? 

AT: That is correct 

19 Apr 12:47

MS: And from there, what happened? 

AT: He was taken to his house, where a search took place with his consent 

MS: Were you present during the search? 

AT: Yes 

MS: Were any items seized? 

AT: Yes 

MS: And from there? 

AT: We proceeded to Shirley Street 

MS: Why? 

AT: There was an attorney waiting for us 

MS: And do you know who it was? 

AT: Mr Griebenouw 

MS: Do you know what house he was arrested at? 

AT: It was a house in Uitenhage 

MS: And the search? 

AT: At a house in Kabega Park 

MS: Do you know of a cellphone that was seized at the house? 

19 Apr 12:43

MS: Can you tell the court how you were involved in the arrest of Panayiotou? 

AT: I was in the company of the officers that arrested him 

MS: Can you tell how the arrest came about? 

AT: I was with Eksteen, we called the father, who came out and Eksteen said he wanted to speak to Christopher. 

AT: Chris came out and he was arrested. 

MS: Who arrested him? 

AT: Captain Swanepoel 

MS: Were his rights read to him? 

AT: They were, but he refused to sign anything or say anything. 

19 Apr 12:41

MS: We have heard of interviews of Siyoni taking place, were you aware of these? 

AT: Yes 

MS: Did you observe him? 

MS: Did you observe any injuries? 

AT: No 

MS: Was he at any time threatened or intimidated? 

AT: No 

MS: What was his state? 

MS: Was he handcuffed at that time? 

AT: No 

MS: Were you at any time involved in the investigation? 

AT: No 

MS: Did you speak to Siyoni? 

AT: I did 

MS: What was your conversation with him? 

AT: I asked him if he understood what was happening and if he was happy with what was taking place 

MS: In what language? 

AT: In English 

MS: It has been put to this court that Siyoni did not want to co-operate, is that your impression? 

AT: No 

19 Apr 12:37

MS: It is common knowledge that Mr Siyoni was taken to the offices at Organised Crime on the 28th and 29th of April 

MS: Are you aware of that? 

AT: Yes 

MS: Do you know which building he was in? 

MS: Was he in your building or Swanepoel's? 

AT: Mine 

MS: Do you know what venue? 

AT: In the commander's office 

MS: Is that your office? 

AT: I am acting commander, it was someone else's office 

MS: Was that office occupied at the time, or was it an empty office? 

AT: It was empty 

19 Apr 12:34

[MS calls next witness - Audrey Till (AT)] 

[TP raises point that Audrey Till's statement was only obtained in April this year] 

MS: The investigating officers in this case, Captain Swanepoel and Koen, you know them? 

AT: That is correct 

MS: And they fall under you? 

AT: Yes 

19 Apr 12:32

PD: And you wrote it yourself? 

MG: Yes 

PD: And it's your handwriting? 

MG: Yes 

PD: And you say that Siyoni scratched himself with the handcuffs? 

MG: Because of what I wrote here, could be the English 

PD: So you did not mean to say he scratched himself with the handcuffs? 

MG: No 

PD: So you are saying you don't know what it means when you say scratched with the handcuffs? 

MG: I know what it means, but what I wanted to say is he scratched himself while being handcuffed 

PD: Why did you not say while being handcuffed, instead of with 

MG: That's why I am apologising 

PD: You have contradicted yourself and are simply not telling the truth 

MG: That is not so, everything I have said is the truth. It was just a mistake. 

PD: That is not the truth, you wanted to convey how Siyoni had injured himself and that you made no mistake in your affidavit. 

MG: No, that is not the case 

PD: No further questions 

MS: No cross examination 

[MG is excused] 

19 Apr 12:28

PD: Whose handcuffs were used? 

MG: I don't recall 

PD: His hands were handcuffed behind his back? 

MG: Yes 

PD: Did you see the scratch above his eye? 

MG: I did not see it then 

PD: Did you see it later? 

MG: In the car when we were leaving 

PD: What did it look like? 

MG: An abrasion 

PD: Was it a cut? 

MG: No 

PD: Was it bleeding? 

MG: No 

PD: Do you know how he sustained it? 

MG: I did not see how he sustained it, but it could have been during the scuffle by bumping against something. 

PD: Is it you saying it could be from bumping against something? 

MG: That is correct 

PD: So you can't say how he sustained the scratch? 

MG: No 

PD: Let me refer you to your affidavit, paragraph 7 

PD: Can you read it out to us? 

MG: "After a while, Mayi came and informed Thando that he was being arrested in connection with a murder case in Kabega Park..." 

MG: "He scratched himself on the face with a handcuff." 

PD: You confirm that this is what you wrote in your affidavit? 

MG: Yes 

19 Apr 12:22

TP: When you got to the house, were you with Babalwa? 

MG: Babalwa went to fetch the money 

TP: But that is not what Mayi says. He says Siyoni went to get the money and then came out and came to the car where Babalwa was and she said no she had taken the money to a relative 

MG: What I know is that when we left KwaNobuhle, Mayi found out there was money that needed to be recovered 

TP: I am not dealing with that, I am dealing with while at the house 

TP: Do you know anything about Siyoni coming out of the house and talking to Babalwa? 

MG: No  

TP: No further questions 

PD: Were you present when Siyoni was handcuffed? 

MG: Yes 

PD: Who all took part in this handcuffing? 

[MG lists names] 

PD: If I count quickly, that's six of you 

MG: That is correct 

PD: What role did you play? 

MG: I was seated, Thando was seated deeper in the office. Mayi entered and stood next to him 

MG: I was seated near the door MG: When there was scuffling over the handcuffs 

MG: The other members were already there with him 

MG: I came to assist from behind, holding his arms so he could be handcuffed 

19 Apr 12:17

TP: Your evidence, before you start jumping around again, from the beginning when you were at the office without Mayi till the time you left with Mayi, you said the accused, Siyoni, did not say anything 

MG: That is correct 

TP: And you were present all the time? 

MG: Yes 

TP: But then you going to have to say Mayi is lying 

TP: Mayi says that, when he entered after the interview with Breakfast, he confronted Siyoni, and Siyoni agreed to his role he played 

MG: I did not hear it 

TP: You were all in one office 

MG: That is correct, I did not hear that 

TP: Mayi said he also told about the money 

MG: I did not hear him say that 

TP: What Mayi said Siyoni admitted to, did not happen in the office when you were there? 

MG: I did not hear 

19 Apr 12:14

TP: Your evidence in chief is that you did not play a role in handcuffing him, how do you explain that? 

MG: I had no part in that, I did not reach him, I just assisted 

TP: I wish you can hear what you are saying 

TP: I want to take you to line 34 (of Mayi's testimony) 

TP: Before we get there, the word "scuffle", what does it mean? 

TP: Do you know the English word "scuffle"? 

[MG starts explaining how Siyoni was handcuffed] 

TP: Answer my question, what part of the scuffle were you? 

MG: I was holding him 

TP: But you just said you played no role in handcuffing him 

MG: Can I explain how this happened? 

TP: No, I am not interested. 

19 Apr 12:10

TP: I want to take you to page 1494 of the record 

TP: This is Mayi's evidence 

TP: "When we got to Infinity I was in the presence of Gcukumana and Gusha" 

MG: I was not with him when he went in 

TP: So Mayi is wrong? 

MG: Yes 

[TP reads from record]: "Thando displayed resistance to being handcuffed. My colleagues had to come to my assistance to handcuff him..."

TP: Is that correct? 

MG: Yes 

TP: But in your evidence, you said you did not have any role in the handcuffing of Siyoni 

MG: In that office, we were four 

MG: Everyone in that office assisted to handcuff him 

TP: I am asking you questions, can you please stop ducking them? 

19 Apr 12:07

TP: The next sentence cannot be true based on what you said today... 

TP: You say that when you went to handcuff Siyoni, he scuffled and he scratched himself with the handcuffs 

TP: Now just to remind you, today you said you never saw any injury and you had no idea how he got the injury 

MG: I did say he had a scratch 

TP: No you didn't, you said you heard from someone else he had a scratch, it is very different to what you say there. 

MG: I heard about the scratch and saw the scratch 

TP: You never said that 

MG: During the scuffle when they wanted to handcuff him, I did not see the scratch 

19 Apr 12:04

TP: So you will not be able to explain how he knew you and Mayi were in Fort Beaufort that morning? 

MG: I do not know where he would have known that 

TP: I refer the court to your affidavit 

TP: I want you to confirm, is this your signature? 

MG: Yes 

TP: And you agree that it is commissioned on the 21st July 2016 by Mayi? 

MG: Yes 

TP: Who wrote it? 

MG: I did 

TP: You wrote it and Mayi commissioned it? 

MG: Yes 

TP: And this statement is the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth? 

MG: Yes 

TP: I want to refer you to the typed version 

[TP reads from the statement] 

19 Apr 12:00

TP: Have you even heard of people being tubed? 

MG: I have never heard of it 

TP: On the 28th, were you with Mayi when he went with Alice? 

MG: Yes, we went back to Alice 

TP: And as Mayi testified, you would have had to go through Fort Beaufort 

MG: Yes, that is correct, the bed and breakfast we were sleeping in was in Fort Beaufort 

TP: So on the 28th, you were in Fort Beaufort 

MG: Yes 

TP: Can you give me an indication what time that would have been? 

TP: Let me ask differently - was it in the morning? 

MG: Yes 

TP: Did you see Siyoni? 

MG: No 

19 Apr 11:57

TP: Did you ever see an injury on Siyoni? 

MG: No 

TP: Not a mark 

MG: I didn't see. Only one thing, was a scratch above his left eye. 

TP: I'm not interested in what was said, did you see it? 

MG: No I did not see it 

TP: It is common cause that his eye was swollen 

MG: I did not see it 

TP: It is common cause, and it has gone unchallenged, Siyoni said the police had, and it is a Afrikaans word, that police "moered" him. 

MG: I did not know that 

19 Apr 11:54

[TP reads from court record where he asked Mayi if he had the names of Siyoni and Chris prior to leaving Alice. Mayi told TP that he had both names.] 

TP: But you say you did not know the names of Chris or Siyoni when you were driving back? 

MG: No 

TP: When did you learn the names? 

MG: At Brighton Beach 

TP: At KwaNobuhle, were there any there people there? 

MG: No 

TP: So no one else was there aside from your group? 

MG: No 

TP: Were you part of the group that dropped Siyoni off at Kabega Park, after the search of the houses? 

MG: No 

TP: You saw him at the houses that were being searched?

MG: No 

19 Apr 11:50

TP: Did you hear anyone give permission for search? 

MG: I did not hear anyone giving permission, but Babalwa had given permission 

TP: That is what you were told... 

TP: I want to go to when you and Mayi were in Alice 

TP: The time of 4:30, when Mayi got the call, how do you know that time? 

MG: I was busy with taking a statement in the other investigation, and it was around 4pm. 

MG: I remember that, when we were on our way back, we needed to determine what time we would arrive in PE to meet the informer. 

TP: And this time you remember 15 months later in your statement? 

MG: Yes 

TP: You and Mayi are friends? 

MG: Yes 

TP: And you trust each other? 

MG: Yes 

[TP refers to testimony from Mayi] 

19 Apr 11:46

TP: Who was with him? 

MG: Mayi and Constable [name inaudible] was the driver. 

TP: Where did you go after KwaNobuhle? 

MG: We went to the mall 

TP: And what did you do there? 

TP: Were you present when Mayi spoke to the investigating officer, Constable Koen? 

MG: No 

TP: And from there? 

MG: We went to Babalwa's house 

TP: And there you searched for the money? 

MG: Yes 

TP: And was a search warrant obtained? 

MG: No 

TP: Are you aware that where a search warrant can be obtained, you should obtain one? 

MG: Yes 

19 Apr 11:43

TP: Did you hear Siyoni say he wanted to make a confession? 

MG: I do not recall 

TP: Did you hear Siyoni say he is prepared to point out the money? 

MG: I did not 

TP: When you left the office, where did you think you were going? 

MG: We were told by Mayi that he had been informed about the money from Babalwa 

TP: So the info about the money came from (Babalwa) Breakfast? 

MG: According to Mayi 

TP: When you left the offices, were you in the same car as Siyoni? 

MG: No 

19 Apr 11:40

TP: Would it be in your pocket book? 

MG: The time in the pocket book would be the time arriving at KwaNobuhle 

TP: Answer my question 

MG: The time of his arrest would not be in the pocket book 

TP: What time was it when Mayi arrested Siyoni? 

MG: Maybe sometime between 11pm and 12, I can't recall exactly 

TP: Did you see Mayi call Brigadier McLaren? 

MG: I did not 

TP: McLaren testified in this court that Mayi had called him to inform him that Siyoni and (Babalwa) Breakfast were arrested at 10pm. 

MG: I do not know of that call 

TP: Is it possible that Brigadier McLaren received that call? 

MG: I have no comment on that, I do not know  

19 Apr 11:36

TP: And he did not say he doesn't want  an attorney? 

MG: Not that I can hear 

TP: And what did he read the rights from? 

MG: He did not read it, it could be he remembers them from heart 

TP: And did Mayi write anything down? 

MG: That that I remember 

TP: What time did this happen? 

MG: I can't recall the time 

19 Apr 11:33

MG: We left there 

TP: And Siyoni did not say anything from the time he was informed he was being arrested, till the time you left? 

MG: I can't recall him saying anything 

TP: How is that possible? 

TP: Either he reacted or he said nothing. 

MG: The truth is, I can't recall him saying anything. 

TP: He didn't say he understands his rights? 

MG: I can't recall him saying that. 

19 Apr 11:31

TP: You were not with Mayi when he questioned Babalwa? 

MG: I was not with him 

TP: So you have no idea what happened there? 

MG: That is correct 

TP: Let me see if I understand your testimony... When Mayi came back into the office after talking to Babalwa, what happened? 

MG: Mayi came into the office. We were all seated. Mayi addressed Siyoni by his name. 

MG: He informed him that he was arresting him for a Kabega case and informed him of his rights. 

TP: And he was handcuffed in that office? 

MG: Yes 

TP: And after that? 

19 Apr 11:28

TP: And what would happen to this case? 

MG: The court will do what is necessary. 

TP: Well, according to the Supreme Court of Appeal, the statement given by Mr Siyoni will be thrown out. 

TP: So according to you, you treated Mr Siyoni like gold 

TP: You never assaulted him or threatened him? 

MG: I did not do anything to him. 

TP: Did anyone do anything to him in your presence? 

MG: No 

TP: And when you picked him up at Infinity, you agree there was no mark on his face? 

MG: When he came out of Infinity, my vehicle was not parked near the exit door, it was quite a way away, so I did not see him. 

TP: Let's make it easy for you - You sat with him in an office for quite some time, the lights were on, were there any marks on his face? 

MG: I did not notice any. 

19 Apr 11:24

MG: When you lose a pocket book, you have to write a statement. 

TP: And Mrs Hoff, does she have it? 

MG: She should 

TP: We will subpoena her 

MG: That's fine 

TP: When you wrote this affidavit, did you have your pocket book? 

MG: I did not write it according to the pocket book, I wrote it based on what I could remember. 

TP: If you told his lordship you assaulted Mr Siyoni, what would happen to you? 

MG: ... 

TP: Let me help you - You will be arrested and charged and a case will be opened against you. 

MG: That is correct 

19 Apr 11:21

TP: Did you report the missing pocket book? 

MG: Yes, we reported all items lost during the accident. 

TP: To whom? 

MG: It was in the accident docket. 

TP: Did you report it to the police officer in charge of pocket books? 

MG: I informed Col. Mayi. 

TP: That is not good enough. The standing orders are that you have to report it to the person in charge of pocket books, did you do that? 

MG: I did that, I reported to Mrs Hoff. 

TP: Who is that? 

MG: She works at Mount Road, she works with the pocket books. 

TP: So it should be in the register 

19 Apr 11:18

TP: But why did you not give it to them? 

MG: I do not know the reason I did not give it 

TP: I will address his lordship on this, it's because there is nothing there. 

MG: That is not so 

TP: Did you make notes on the 27th? 

MG: Yes 

TP: And like all your friends so far, pocket books are gone...

19 Apr 11:15

TP: But we were informed by Mr Stander that you did not have a pocket book. 

MG: When I said I did not have a pocket book originally, I was told the pocket books were needed. 

MG: I made an effort to go where the pocket books are kept. 

TP: And did you find it? 

MG: Yes 

TP: And did you give it to Mr Stander? 

MG: I did not have a chance 

TP: So let me get this straight, you're saying before the case started you found your missing pocket book? 

MG: Yes 

TP: But you did not give it to them? 

MG: No, I did not give it to them. 

19 Apr 11:12

MG: I was explaining how 

TP: When was this accident? 

[MG gives the date] 

TP: The trial was already on for five to six weeks by then. We had been asking for the pocket books before the trial had even started. 

MG: I am aware 

TP: Were you asked for your pocket book prior to the accident? 

MG: Yes I was 

TP: When were you asked for it? 

MG: I can't recall 

TP: Was it 2015 or 2016? 

MG: 2016 

19 Apr 11:10

TP: Between the incident and this statement, did you make any other statement, written or otherwise? 

MG: I never made another statement, this was the first time. 

TP: Did you make any notes? 

MG: I did have notes that I had made, some aspects I did remember. 

TP: You are jumping the gun. Where are your notes? 

MG: What happened, the pocket book that I had, last year we were told those pocket books were needed. Unfortunately the case was still in progress. We had to go and do an investigation in Gauteng. 

MG: In that period, all the pocket books were in my possession, and we were preparing to come here. 

MG: Coming back from Gauteng we got involved in an accident. 

MG: I ended up in hospital, without knowing what had happened. 

MG: Some of the items, including personal items, were lost in that accident. Including the pocket books. 

TP: You took a long time to explain your pocket book was lost... 

19 Apr 11:09

TP: I have one affidavit from you, dated 21 July 2016, is that the only one you made? 

MG: That is correct 

TP: And you agree that is 15 months after the incident 

MG: I agree 

TP: Who commissioned your statement? 

MG: I can't recall 

TP: Col. Mayi 

TP: Col. Mayi was with you at the time, so what you were talking about, Mayi also was part of. 

MG: Yes 

19 Apr 11:03

MS: I want to clarify, when you travelled to recover the money, who was in the vehicle with you? 

MG: I was with Babalwa and another member 

MS: Col. Mayi and Siyoni, where were they? 

MG: They were in separate vehicle. 

MS: After meeting the investigating officer at Kenako Mall, how many properties did you go to? 

MG: Can you repeat? 

MS: From the time you met the IO, and before you returned to Kabega Park police station, how many addresses did you visit? 

MG: We went to two addresses. 

MS: Do you know whose? 

MG: The first was to Babalwa's home, and then to the relative's home. 

MS: At any stage before returning to Kabega Park, was there any assault or threats made to Babalwa? 

MG: No 

MS: And Siyoni? 

MG: No 

MS: No further questions 

19 Apr 11:00

MS: What transpired at that stage? 

MG: When Mayi came back and informed him that he was under arrest and informed him of his rights. Mayi placed the handcuff on his one arm. 

MG: At that point there was a struggle between Mayi and Siyoni. 

MG: Siyoni was then handcuffed. 

MS: Was there any injuries to Siyoni? 

MG: Not that I am aware of. 

19 Apr 10:57

MS: The allegation is that, at some stage, Siyoni was placed on the ground and "tubed". 

MG: All the time he was with us, he was seated on a chair, he was never on the floor. 

MS: It was also said that, while he was on the floor, members stood on him to the extent that he sustained injury to his legs. 

MG: In that office, nothing like that happened. 

MS: Was Siyoni handcuffed at some stage? 

MG: He was not handcuffed at this stage, he was seated with us. He was only handcuffed later by Mayi. 

19 Apr 10:54

MS: Where was he during the time Mayi was interviewing Babalwa? 

MG: He was with us in the office. 

MS: Was he handcuffed? 

MG: No, he was just sitting there. 

MS: Was he assaulted by yourself? 

MG: No, that is not true. 

MS: Was he threatened? 

MG: No 

19 Apr 10:53

MS: The court has heard that Babalwa is legally blind, do you have any comment on that? 

MG: She had no complaint to that regard 

MG: To the extent that, when we got to the office at KwaNobuhle, there are stairs that you have to go up. 

MG: The only light there is up in the building. She never said she needed any assistance to go up those stairs. 

MS: At the time when Mayi was interviewing Babalwa, where were you? 

MG: We were in a separate office. 

MS: The young man you mentioned, do you remember his name? 

TP: They can put the name to the witness. 

MS: Common cause, his name is Thando (Luthando Siyoni)

19 Apr 10:49

MS: You explained that from Infinity you went to Uitenhage 

DC: He first dropped the brother 

MS: Yes, after that, did you go to a police station? 

MG: It was detective offices 

MS: Do you know why it was decided to go to those offices? 

MG: The reason was because we did not have a key to access our offices at Mount Road 

MG: There were also members from KwaNobuhle, who had keys to the offices 

19 Apr 10:47

MS: Do I understand correctly, that the girlfriend travelled with you in your vehicle? 

MG: That is correct 

MS: Do you still remember her name? 

MG: Babalwa 

MS: Now, was Mayi with you in the vehicle with Babalwa or not? 

MG: No, he was not 

MS: Was she threatened or intimidated in any way when she was with you? 

MG: Never 

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