OVERVIEW: We can't rely on state to 'act in interests of landless people' - submission at land hearings

2018-09-05 16:30

Parliamentary land hearings have continued and the Constitutional Review Committee heard further presentations, including those from BLF, the Orania Movement and the Afrikanerbond.

WATCH LIVE: Parliament hearings on changing Section 25 of the Constitution | Day 2

(via SABC)

Parliament. (Duncan Alfreds, News24)
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Last Updated at 15:38
05 Sep 17:18

Wegerif answers all the questions posed to him and proceedings for the day come to an end.


05 Sep 17:14

Wegerif now fielding questions from MPs, who all agreed that his submission was very informative and comprehensive. Some have even asked him to email them the information, stats and case studies from Brazil that he referenced in his presentation.


05 Sep 17:07

Dr Marc Wegerif, presenting on behalf of the Human Economy Programme at the University of Pretoria, tells the CRC that a formula must be created to calculate when compensation should be paid and when not, and what fair compensation should be.


05 Sep 17:01

"We really cannot rely on the state to use its powers they have to act in the interests of landless people," the representative says, drawing heavily from examples from Brazil.


05 Sep 16:56

The Human Economy Programme at the University of Pretoria now making their presentation.


05 Sep 16:54

Afrikanerbond invites the EFF to discuss any matter regarding land expropriation with them, even outside of the hearings.


05 Sep 16:53

Afrikanerbond: "Don't just water property rights down by putting in a clause where the probability exists that it can be expropriated without compensation. That will immediately have a ripple effect throughout the economy."


05 Sep 16:52

An EFF MP gets vocal and argues with the Afrikanerbond representatives about their definition of "who works the land". 

"In his mind, that person that drives the tractor, is not wise enough to think. It's only him, because he's white, who can think. That one, is just an inhuman person who can't think, and he's the one that works that land, and that person, he tends to be a black person. He is the person, chief, let me tell you, those people on your farm are the ones who work the land," the EFF MP says, referencing farm workers, saying they keep the economy going and still have no land of their own. 


05 Sep 16:39

Afrikanerbond once again makes reference to what happened in Bela Bela and how excited and pleased they are with what transpired there.


05 Sep 16:36

Afrikanerbond says the greatest need for land is in urban areas.


05 Sep 16:35

Afrikanerbond: "Our take on the Constitution differs slightly to that of the Honourable Shivambu... The Constitution does not enshrines any inequality. It is not the message that we want to convey, therefore we stand with the Constitution, we support the Constitution, and we support the principles that land reform must be addressed in the manner that the Constitution is prescribing. 

"Section 25 is comprehensive, and there is nothing in Section 25 that prohibits this process to be concluded."

"I am not of the conviction or the opinion that Section 25 is the problem."


05 Sep 16:31

MPs in attendance now posing questions to the Afrikanerbond delegation.


05 Sep 16:28

05 Sep 16:20

Afrikanerbond: "Yes, we were all part of the old South Africa, and yes, apartheid did give more privilege to white South Africans. I benefitted from it, because I'm white. But for the last 50 years, we've been trying to return some of my skills to fellow South Africans."



05 Sep 16:17

Afrikanerbond representative: "Please, do not keep calling us 'umlungu', because umlungu, we are not aliens in this country, we part of the country. And umlungu is the dirty foam that's washed out from the sea, and we have not been washed out from the sea."


05 Sep 16:15

05 Sep 16:15

The EFF's Shivambu poses a question to Boshoff: "White people in South Africa is approximately 5% of the population" that owns about 80% of "arable land...Black people is 80% of the population, what do you think should be a proper balance, over what period of time?" 

Boshoff responds: "I would refrain from the kind of simple mathematics into which this leads, because land is not just land, if you move from the east of South Africa to the west of South Africa, you see very, very different climate areas, etc, etc." 

Boshoff: "South Africa is ideallly a community of communties, in which recognition is a key part." 


05 Sep 16:08

05 Sep 16:06

MPs respond to Boshoff's comment regarding "cultural spaces", and say it's "virtually unpalatable". 

"Now, that is on the part of the Afrikaners, and we're talking about a tiny community here, if we're focusing exclusively on Orania."

"There are millions of people who cannot even practise their culture because of the limited spaces in which they live, because of the denial of their being unable to access any economic opportunities in this country."


05 Sep 16:00

Boshoff: "When Afrikaners hear about land confiscation, it reminds us of what we have been experiencing in terms of the expropriation of cultural spaces, of schools, of our language in education and in the public sector."


05 Sep 15:54

Carel Boshoff now making his presentation on behalf of the Orania Movement.


05 Sep 15:52

05 Sep 15:52

05 Sep 15:52

Mngxitama, after answering questions related to his presentation, stood up from his seat and disrupted proceedings just as the Orania Movement was about to make their presentation. 

The EFF's Shivambu to the committee: "The foolishness must be dealt with."

"So Shivambu, you are defending Orania now?" Mngxitama shouts as he and the rest of his party members walk out of chambers. 


05 Sep 15:45

05 Sep 15:40

Mngxitama blames the ANC and EFF for the delays in the land expropriation process, says together they have a "two-thirds majority" and could have fast-tracked the process.

He earlier referred to it as a "political fraud".

"These delays are deliberate," he says.

He also makes reference to Afriforum and calls Donald Trump "the father of Afriforum".


05 Sep 15:40

Mngxitama: "Even this recession, look at the figures... white people have caused this recession. Agriculture is the biggest contributor to the recession, because they want to terrorise you through economic terrorism, into not touching the land question. 

"Make it treasonous therefore, anybody who interferes with the economy or production, are trying to undermine the land reform programme." 


05 Sep 15:34

Mngxitama: "All land, all of it, unused, used, productive, unproductive belongs to black people." 

"Orania and other white people have no right to this land. And you must return it."


05 Sep 15:34

05 Sep 15:30

Mngxitama: "BLF supports the call to amend Section 25 of the Constitution, so that all land in the hands of white people, or rather its return to the hands of black people, all that land which is currently in the hands of white people. And that includes land in Orania, land in Stellenbosch, all that land must be returned."

"Land expropriation must ensure land returns to the hands of black people."


05 Sep 15:26

BLF leader Andile Mngxitama now making the submission on behalf of his party. He starts off by saying he won't address people as "Honourable members", but rather "Landless members".


05 Sep 15:17

The AFM (Apostolic Faith Mission) has wrapped up their discussion on the role of churches in the redistribution of land. They also touched on how municipalities could assist churches throughout this process. 

BLF is up next with their presentation, but the hearings adjourn for a short "comfort break".


05 Sep 15:07

05 Sep 15:07

05 Sep 15:06

05 Sep 14:46
National Association of Democratic Lawyers tells CRC Mozambique nationalised all land in 1997. It stabilised its currency and attracted foreign investors #Section25 #SAonLand @TeamNews24 @gerbjan

05 Sep 14:42
In Australia, 44% of land is leased, and 33% in the UK, says NADEL

05 Sep 14:40
MPs ask about the mechanism for land nationalisation

05 Sep 14:36
Land redistribution programmes have not achieved the goals they were meant to achieve, says NADEL

05 Sep 14:33
Laws should strike a balance

05 Sep 14:31
Parliament must pass the laws, not the courts, says National Association of Democratic Lawyers (NADEL)

05 Sep 14:28
Property compensation should not be applied where the property has been acquired under apartheid, says land expropriation submitter

05 Sep 14:17
MPs listen to oral submissions on changing section 25 of the Constitution

05 Sep 13:47

Cosatu STATEMENT:

"This federation is not shocked by these outrageous attacks directed at Cde Mathew Parks by these organised noisemakers and professional race hustlers. They are nothing but angry, self-pitying delusionists with the moral compass of an opportunistic infection. These creatures of bombastic nonsense thrive on any applause or social media likes that they can get through flippant name calling."

"Spouting abstract radical left positions, obsolete bravado and behaving like political Neanderthals is not enough to bring about the necessary changes to transform our economy. Economies are made up of people and the price for getting economic relations wrong is calamity. The fact that politics is vibrant does not mean its any good."


05 Sep 13:43
South African Institute of Black Property Practioners tells CRC land expropriation without reciprocal rights will not achieve redress #Section25 #SAonLand @TeamNews24 @gerbjan

05 Sep 13:12
Chair announces a lunch recess to 13:30

05 Sep 13:06
IRR says to CRC expropriation without compensation will lead to "radical deterioration of economy", is in "breach of the principle of fairness" and is a "red herring" #Section25 #SAonLand @TeamNews24 @gerbjan

05 Sep 13:02

IRR STATEMENT:

The Institute of Race Relations (IRR) will today make its oral submission to the Parliamentary committee investigating the possibility of amending the Constitution to allow for the expropriation of land without compensation.  

The IRR and the 60 000 South Africans who endorsed its written submission will be represented by senior advocate, Mr Martin Brassey. He will contend that circumstances render the proposed constitutional amendment premature. For this reason, no competent amendment can be possible.  

The judiciary has not been tested on the matter of just compensation amounting to no compensation in any case. The legislature has not been tested in its capacity to pass laws that make explicit the conditions in which property may be expropriated, where just compensation might equal no compensation. The executive has also failed to implement its own policies.  

Corruption in land reform has been rife and the Parliamentary High-Level Panel, chaired by former President Kgalema Motlanthe, found "elite capture" to be a key stumbling block. Until such obstacles are removed no view can be taken on the Constitution's role as anything but a motivator for fair and justly implemented land reform, as well as protection from arbitrary power abuse, a corner stone of any democracy. Adv. Brassey looks forward to answering questions in the National Assembly, and spreading more light than heat.


05 Sep 12:59
IRR tells CRC they are in favour redistribution. Current policies not being implemented properly. #SAonLand #Section25 @TeamNews24 @gerbjan

05 Sep 12:54
Section 25 applies to all property – not only agricultural land

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