OVERVIEW: Zondo adjourns heated cross-questioning, Manyi back tomorrow at #StateCaptureInquiry

2018-11-26 16:30

Former GCIS CEO Mzwanele Manyi is expected back at the judicial commission of inquiry into state capture in the morning after proceedings adjourned while he was still being cross-questioned.

WATCH LIVE: #StateCaptureInquiry

Former CEO of GCIS Mzwanele Manyi
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Last Updated at 07:27
26 Nov 16:36

Maleka reminds Zondo that they have reached (the earlier proposed cut-off of) 16:30, and Zondo asks Maleka how much more time he thinks he would need to question Manyi. 

Maleka says in light of the responses he is getting from Manyi, he would not want to hazard a guess... 

Zondo adjourns proceedings for the day, and the commission resumes with Maleka questioning Manyi tomorrow morning.


26 Nov 16:34

Manyi now saying Telmar is "not binding".


26 Nov 16:31

26 Nov 16:29

Manyi makes use of an analogy which compares selling cars - says if one person sells 100 Toyota Tazz cars, it won't be the same as someone who sells Rolls Royce vehicles, even though they are both selling cars.


26 Nov 16:25

Maleka says TNA did not have accredited readership and circulation figures. 

Manyi says it was not using ABC (circulation) figures, but auditors.

Maleka asks Manyi if TNA chose to use its own method of auditing, and Manyi says yes... 

Maleka questions him further and Manyi says Maleka is again putting on a "mechanical hat". 


26 Nov 16:16

26 Nov 16:15

"You can't deny that the difference is vast," Zondo tells Manyi, referencing GCIS spend on TNA in its first year (R8.7-million) compared to a publication like The Star (R97 000). 

Manyi concedes that the difference is vast, but it might be because government departments were disillusioned with the established, mainstream media and therefore chose TNA.

Manyi once again cites the system that GCIS uses (Telmar) in the selection process. Manyi earlier said the GCIS is just a "conduit" for other government departments who determine where they use their ad spend. Manyi also cites the government's transformation agenda.



26 Nov 16:07

Manyi is asked why it is that GCIS would spend so much money on a new publication, like TNA, when there are many other established publications. Manyi says it must be because people like "new things" and "embraced" the newness of TNA. 


26 Nov 16:06

Manyi again accuses Maleka of taking a "mechanical approach" when dealing with the figures from GCIS spend on various publications, and it's not as "mechanical" as that. Manyi says there are various other factors that would have been taken into account. 

Maleka reminds Manyi that he himself provided these figures, and Maleka is allowed to examine the figures. 


26 Nov 16:02

Maleka now points to the Daily Sun, which is also a daily paper - the biggest daily newspaper in terms of circulation. Zondo and Maleka ask Manyi to read the figures onto the record. 

Manyi starts reading "R8 788..." before trailing off.

Manyi says Maleka is totally out of context and is "now coming up with a sound bite". Manyi says Maleka is being like the "mainstream media" that he has been criticising. 



26 Nov 15:55

Maleka pointed to the figures produced by Manyi which show that City Press got R199 000 in 2011/2012, whereas The New Age got R8.7-million. 

Maleka says TNA earned over 20 times more than City Press from government advertisement. 


26 Nov 15:52

Maleka's line of questioning to Manyi now uses the Naspers group as an example, and Maleka asks Manyi if he would count GCIS spend on one publication (City Press) or the total revenue from GCIS for the whole group. Maleka compares government advertisement revenue between City Press and TNA.

Manyi says Maleka is comparing "apples to pears". Manyi argues that City Press is a weekly newspaper, whereas TNA was a daily.

Maleka says he will demonstrate that that explanation is mistaken.


26 Nov 15:45

Manyi challenges Tiso Blackstar to not do any business with the government, and says if they stopped advertising with government for three months, they would also shut down.


26 Nov 15:42

Zondo and Manyi continue to debate the merits of the media in South Africa, and the accuracy of reporting. 

Zondo cites an article that appeared in a Sunday newspaper which alleged that the person responsible for the commission's leaked statements was the commission's head of investigations.


26 Nov 15:33

Zondo now relating a personal account of his dealings with TNA, when he was once interviewed by them before they closed down. He tells Manyi that TNA published things that were not part of the interview with him, and when he complained to them, nothing much came of it.



26 Nov 15:26

Maleka continues questioning Manyi about what he meant when he said that the "mainstream media" was critical of government, as opposed to TNA. Maleka reminds Manyi that TNA was critical of National Treasury.


26 Nov 15:23

Manyi says it's unfair request to only provide yes/no answers to questions.

Says media will run with a story based on yes/no answer.


26 Nov 15:20
Manyi says The New Age was punished for exposing "white collar capture of the state"

26 Nov 15:13

Says he lost concerntration while listening to Gordhan testify.


26 Nov 15:11
Manyi says he has reason to doubt Jonas, Maseko testimonies 

26 Nov 15:11
Manyi says he did not listen to evidence provided by Nene, and says he struggled to listen to Gordhan during his testimony.

26 Nov 15:05
I have lost confidence in the newspapers - Manyi

26 Nov 15:04

26 Nov 15:04

Says he has been following the proceedings "in and out".

Says it frustrated him that "People are just talking, and talking, and talking" - referring to witnesses who have taken the stand.


26 Nov 15:02
I was very hopeful when the Estina case went before the courts because it was an "open and shut case". People that have been here (commission) have been very poetic without producing evidence. Can't implicate people purely based on poetry.

26 Nov 15:02
"I'm struggling to convict people based on poetry," says Manyi.

26 Nov 15:01
Evidence leader advocate Vincent Maleka asks whether Manyi accepts that the Guptas have been seriously implicated in corruption, during the commission. "I don't know," he says. 

26 Nov 15:00

26 Nov 14:59
Maleka now questioning Manyi on his statement.

26 Nov 14:55
On to the Gupta leaks: Manyi says he was invited to an event as the chair of the BMF, and the rest of the time he was mentioned, he was not in government. Nothing wrong with him attending the Gupta wedding.

26 Nov 14:54
Manyi says he attended the IMC as a part-time advisor to the minister.

26 Nov 14:52
Manyi says The New Age was hated because it was exposing white collar crime.

26 Nov 14:48
Manyi: If the Guptas are found to have done anything wrong, they must face the full "wrath of the law". But the law must apply equally to everyone. 

26 Nov 14:46
Manyi says these are the kinds of issues that TNA and ANN7 would report on. 

26 Nov 14:45

26 Nov 14:42

Now on to a contract from November 2006 where SARS allegedly appoints a service provider without due process. This, says Manyi, is part of his point about "white corporate capture".


26 Nov 14:37

Nothing irregular was paid to The New Age, says Manyi

Speaking about procurement:

Black business is not able to compete toe-to-toe with white established corporates. - Manyi

"As a black business, your suppliers expect you to pay cash here and now."


26 Nov 14:31
There was never a time when the state was not captured. Even the laws have been captured - Manyi

26 Nov 14:29

Commission resumes after lunch.

Manyi refers commission to slide relating to IFMS.


26 Nov 13:16

- Zondo interupts Manyi, says he didn't take note of the time. Came to the realisation that it's time for lunch adjournment.

Asked how long Manyi will take. Manyi suggests to take lunch.

Zondo says they will break for lunch and continue at 14:15


26 Nov 13:13
"Treasury must be protected, but protected from who?" - Manyi says. 

26 Nov 13:12
"Gordhan said, when we root out cancer we must root out all of it. I agree with him." -Manyi

26 Nov 13:05

Manyi says TNA collapsed because of "White collar corporate capture of the state".

He's on to Treasury's "integrated financial management system" project which Scopa criticised.


26 Nov 13:01

Manyi speaks on liquidation of The New Age:

Says it collapsed because it focused on "white collar corporate capture of the state".


26 Nov 12:54


Manyi: There was an impression out there that TNA was "gobbling up" government money. But let's not create impression that it got all govt ad spend. In proportion to their size.

"Let's not create the impression that 4.5% is 100% of the spend." -  Manyi


26 Nov 12:52
Zondo still challenging Manyi on his calculations. He asks whether it would not be better to compare newspapers with newspapers when calculating the proportion of government ad spend with TNA. Not as simple as that, says Manyi. 

26 Nov 12:52

26 Nov 12:50
"Government is interested in both quality and quantity." - Manyi.

26 Nov 12:47
This is because he is comparing total TNA spend on total SABC, eTV, ads24 (rapport, City Press etc) spend. He asks whether each individual publication/station should be compared with TNA to be fair. 

26 Nov 12:46

During the 2011/12 financial year, a total of R194m was spend by GCIS on advertising - Manyi.

Manyi trying to counter claims that TNA got disproportionate amounts of gvt advertising. In 2011/12, TNA only got 4.5% of total government spend on media -Manyi.

Zondo wants to know if the comparison is correct.

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