OVERVIEW: #StateCaptureInquiry cut short by power outage, Hogan's testimony postponed

2018-11-13 15:30

Former public enterprises minister Barbara Hogan's testimony about political interference at SOEs was interrupted by power cuts at the judicial commission of inquiry into state capture and will continue tomorrow.

For the latest updates, follow News24 reporter Jeanette Chabalala: @J_chabalala

WATCH LIVE: #StateCaptureInquiry 

Former public enterprises minister Barbara Hogan
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Last Updated at 18:27
13 Nov 15:25

13 Nov 15:23

As a result of the ongoing power outage in the area, Zondo has adjourned today's proceedings, and the commission will resume with Hogan's testimony tomorrow morning. 


13 Nov 14:54

13 Nov 14:28

It seems a power cut has interrupted proceedings. The commission adjourns briefly while it is attended to.


13 Nov 14:25

Zondo issues the order on Jonas' application - the summons issued to Jonas to appear tomorrow is set aside, and the hearing of Jonas' evidence is postponed to November 26.

The commission now returns to Hogan's testimony.


13 Nov 14:20

13 Nov 14:20

Zondo notes that Jonas has been cooperative and helpful in the past, and he is therefore "inclined to assist him" with the postponement, but Zondo stresses that the business of the commission is also important and witnesses need to strike a balance between their lives and the commission. Zondo says he appreciates the commitments of witnesses and that they have lives to run. 

Zondo asks for a fixed date for Jonas' appearance, after his return to the country.


13 Nov 14:11

13 Nov 14:09

Proceedings resume after the lunch adjournment. 

The commission hears an application from former deputy finance minister Mcebisi Jonas to postpone his follow-up appearance. According to documents submitted by Jonas' legal team, he is unavailable on the scheduled date.

The request is for a date after November 19, when Jonas returns from a business trip to Europe.



13 Nov 13:03

As Hogan's testimony was about to move on to SAFCOL (South African Forestry Companies Limited), the lunch adjournment is called. Proceedings will resume at 14:00.


13 Nov 12:58

Hogan tells the commission that Zuma, through Mantashe (who contacted Hogan) had also prevented Godsell's return to Eskom. Hogan says Mantashe told her that if the black guy must go, then the white guy (Godsell) must also go.

Hogan says Zuma had initially told her to bring back Godsell as board chairperson, but later changed his mind.


13 Nov 12:51

Hogan says after (former deputy minister of public enterprises Enoch) Godongwana expressed his anger and took Maroga's letter to Luthuli House, Zuma then called Maroga and told him to vacate the Eskom office and only return when Hogan told him to.

Hogan says a legal expert on labour matters, Yunus Shaik, was brought in and his view was that the president had violated all the rules of corporate governance. He said he would contact the president and discuss the Eskom matter.


13 Nov 12:41

Hogan says her executive authority as a Cabinet minister had been taken away by former president Zuma. Hogan says that is when she decided to resign.


13 Nov 12:33

13 Nov 12:32

13 Nov 12:32

In the letter the "shareholder at the highest level" referred to, who paved the way for Maroga's return, was Zuma, Hogan says.

Hogan comments on the letter, saying it was almost a declaration of independence of the board and of the minister by Maroga.

Hogan: "It was a complete flouting of everything relating to corporate governance in Eskom, or any company, and a complete arrogance about his position, the board, and what he was saying..." 


13 Nov 12:25

13 Nov 12:25

13 Nov 12:25

Hogan says when Maroga returned to his office at Eskom, he was accompanied by a "small posse" of people that Hogan later found out was a NUMSA collective. Hogan had previously named Mzwanele "Jimmy" Manyi as being part of this entourage, but Hogan clarifies that was not the case - Manyi was not part of this group. 

Zondo notes Hogan's correction.


13 Nov 12:19

13 Nov 12:17

Hogan now describing the events leading up to former Eskom board chairperson (Bobby) Godsell's resignation. 

Hogan says Zuma called her and told her that Maroga did not accept the board's proposal, and it was off. The board was deeply upset by this, and it was around this time that Godsell announced his resignation. 


13 Nov 12:08

13 Nov 12:08

Hogan on the Eskom board's reaction, says the board was "dismayed" at the president's decision. The board said since it was the president's attempt at resolving the situation, they would take it on "good faith". But the board had one condition - that they could meet with Zuma themselves. This meeting took place. 

Hogan was not present at this meeting between Zuma and the Eskom board, but later received feedback from the board. The board had wanted Maroga to take special leave immediately, were he to remain as CEO, until the matter was properly resolved.


13 Nov 11:58

Hogan says she had felt that Zuma was putting her in a position where she was forcing the Eskom board to take on a decision they were not happy with.


13 Nov 11:52

13 Nov 11:49

13 Nov 11:48

Hogan says she met with former president Jacob Zuma on November 8, 2009, and he told her to confirm Maroga as Eskom CEO.

This meeting happened during a 10-minute slot at the president's residence in Pretoria.


13 Nov 11:41

Zondo clarifies with Hogan that Kgalema Motlanthe was acting president of SA at the time.

Hogan says the Eskom board had already scheduled a media briefing to address the issue of Maroga's resignation, but after Zuma's telephonic instruction the briefing had to be called off.


13 Nov 11:40

Hogan resumes her testimony around the issue of Maroga's resignation at Eskom. Hogan says around this time she received a phone call from Zuma who instructed her to tell the Eskom board to "stop it now".


13 Nov 11:37

Proceedings resume after the short adjournment.


13 Nov 11:31

13 Nov 11:20

The commission adjourns for a short break.


13 Nov 11:18

13 Nov 11:16

13 Nov 11:15

Hogan says that Maroga had requested that Hogan, in her capacity as minister, affirm that he would remain as Eskom CEO. 


13 Nov 11:11

Hogan comments to Zondo that "2009 was a hard year".


13 Nov 11:10

13 Nov 11:06

Hogan says that while Maroga had been in disagreement with the board at Eskom and there was a breakdown in the relationship between Maroga and the board, she did not have any reason to believe that Maroga was corrupt.

The board had expressed that they were not happy with Maroga's performance at the time.


13 Nov 10:57

At Zondo's request, Hogan now reads from Maroga's letter to the board at Eskom.

Hogan discusses an Eskom board meeting that dealt with Maroga's apparent offer to resign. Hogan requested to meet with the board without Maroga present, and the board confirmed that Maroga offered to resign, despite Maroga later expressing "shock" that the board had accepted his resignation.


13 Nov 10:54

13 Nov 10:51

Zondo interjects during Mokoena's leading of Hogan's evidence, tries to get a clearer picture of the "differences of opinion" between Hogan and Zuma. 

Hogan now moves on to events at another SOE, Eskom.

Hogan mentions a meeting where she disagreed with former Eskom CEO Jacob Maroga during a strategy session and he walked out. Hogan says Eskom was facing huge funding and operational challenges at the time.


13 Nov 10:39

Hogan observes that while she was aware that she often had "differences of opinion" with Zuma, he had never complained about her performance. 

Hogan describes Zuma as a "genial person" and says she was "careful to be respectful at all times".

Hogan: "At times we did butt heads." 


13 Nov 10:36

According to Hogan, Gigaba had declined a "handover" meeting with her.


13 Nov 10:34

Hogan says there was a narrative spun that painted the Cabinet ministers who had been reshuffled and dismissed as "incompetent". Hogan says she was informed that Malusi Gigaba would replace her in the public enterprises ministry.

Hogan emphasises that issues around her performance were never raised by the president, prior to all of this happening.



13 Nov 10:31

13 Nov 10:29

Hogan now dealing with the events around the day she was dismissed. Hogan says she was summoned to a meeting with Zuma and Mantashe and was told the NEC had decided to "redeploy" her to Finland as an ambassador.

Hogan says that she took her partner, Ahmed Kathrada, and various other factors into account, and she declined.



13 Nov 10:21

13 Nov 10:18

Hogan now reads from and discusses a letter she wrote to former president Jacob Zuma about governance at Transnet, in which she expressed a number of concerns, including concerns over key positions being filled in "acting" capacities.


13 Nov 10:11

Zondo announces that Pravin Gordhan will give his testimony on the 19th of November.


13 Nov 10:09

Deputy Chief Justice Raymond Zondo has commenced proceedings, and after conferring with Advocate Phillip Mokoena, the focus now shifts to Barbara Hogan's testimony once again.

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