AS IT HAPPENED | 'It was my job to interfere' - Motsoeneng explains reasoning behind SABC protest coverage ban at #StateCaptureInquiry

2019-09-10 16:00

The judicial commission of inquiry into state capture has heard testimony related to the SABC from former COO Hlaudi Motsoeneng.

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(Courtesy of SABC) 


Raymond Zondo chairs the state capture inquiry
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Last Updated at 19:20
10 Sep 16:13

10 Sep 16:10

10 Sep 16:09

Advocate Norman pauses Motsoeneng's testimony for now and confers with Zondo, who decides to adjourn proceedings for the day. 

Proceedings will resume at 10:00 tomorrow.


10 Sep 16:06

10 Sep 16:02


10 Sep 15:55

Motsoeneng: "I did hear when they were testifying, to say I was interfering... it was my job to interfere!"

Motsoeneng: "I just want to demonstrate, it was my job to interfere, because their argument is they are independent. The question that we need to ask, chairperson, independent to who? If they are independent."

Motsoeneng says in the "broadcasting act" it is clear about the independence of the broadcasters, as an organisation, and not individuals.


10 Sep 15:47

10 Sep 15:40

Motsoeneng now explains his reasoning behind insisting on South African content at the SABC, during his time as COO.

"Local content is lekker, and we as South Africans must invest in local content," Motsoeneng tells Zondo.


10 Sep 15:33

10 Sep 15:33

Motsoeneng says he went to the Gupta compound more times than he can count. "I enjoy curry, chair, I cannot lie."

Zondo tries to get Motsoeneng to tell him what kind of curry he ate there.

Motsoeneng says he doesn't think they ate meat there, but it was some kind of curry. This seems to relate to older testimony from former ANC MP Vytjie Mentor.


10 Sep 15:24

Norman asks Motsoeneng about ex-SABC group CEO Lulama Mokhobo's testimony that he had taken her to the Gupta compound in Saxonwold to be "congratulated" on her appointment.

Motsoeneng: "Yes chair, we enjoy curry there. Big time, chairperson. Together, with Lulama."


10 Sep 15:21

Motsoeneng blames politics for the lack of stability at the SABC. 

"The reason there is no stability at the SABC is because of politics," says Motsoeneng. He says he served under three boards, and has seen this. "There is a problem when it comes to politics."


10 Sep 15:17

10 Sep 15:09

Wits Business School responds to Motsoeneng's earlier testimony about having lectured at the institution. While Motsoeneng had been invited as a guest speaker at a breakfast panel discussion, he never lectured, as he claimed.



10 Sep 15:06

Back from the short break, Advocate Norman continues with Motsoeneng's evidence.


10 Sep 15:00

Zondo calls for a short adjournment. Back in five minutes.


10 Sep 14:59

It is established that Motsoeneng was permanently appointed as COO around July 2014. He had been acting COO since 2011. 

Motsoeneng says when he heard he had been permanently appointed as COO, he was "very happy" and had plans to transform the country and the SABC.


10 Sep 14:55

'I never lied about matric certificate,' Hlaudi Motsoeneng tells state capture inquiry

Former SABC COO Hlaudi Motsoeneng has told the judicial commission of inquiry into state capture that he never lied to the public broadcaster about his qualifications.

Testifying before inquiry chairperson Deputy Chief Justice Raymond Zondo, Motsoeneng said it was an "insult" for people to say he had lied about his matric certificate. 

"I never lied, chairperson. God knows, I never lied. Those people who have employed me, they know," he said. 


10 Sep 14:43

Advocate Norman moves away from the matric certificate issue for now, and shifts the focus to Motsoeneng's progression through the ranks at the SABC, until he was eventually appointed as chief operations officer (COO) of the public broadcaster.

Motsoeneng says he never applied for the job, and Zondo agrees that Motsoeneng did not appoint himself, and perhaps the people responsible for his appointment should also come forward to the commission with their version.


10 Sep 14:37

10 Sep 14:35

Motsoeneng says he admitted that he should not have taken Marie Swanepoel's advice about filling in forms at the SABC, but he never admitted that he lied about not having a matric certificate. 

Marie Swanepoel appears to have been an HR officer at the SABC at the time.


10 Sep 14:24

African Content Movement (ACM) supporters at the judicial commission of inquiry into state capture, to support Hlaudi Motsoeneng. (Jeanette Chabalala/News24)


10 Sep 14:17

Motsoeneng again emphasises that he never lied about having a matric certificate. 

"I have never agreed with the Public Protector (Thuli Madonsela) that I lied on my matric issue," he says.


10 Sep 14:07

Proceedings resume after the lunch adjournment, with Advocate Norman continuing to lead Motsoeneng's evidence.



10 Sep 14:00

10 Sep 13:04

Advocate Norman mentions the time to Zondo, and he calls for the lunch adjournment. 

Back at 14:00.


10 Sep 12:55

10 Sep 12:55

10 Sep 12:49

Norman now takes Motsoeneng through some more of the documents in evidence, currently focusing on a "certificate" or letter handed to his employers (SABC).

Norman asks if "matric certificate outstanding" could not perhaps be interpreted as if someone had passed matric, but just their certificate was outstanding. 

Someone named "Marie Swanepoel" is mentioned a few times in relation to some of these forms.


10 Sep 12:37

Advocate Norman refers to a specific form, and says if one reads it in isolation, it would appear as if Motsoeneng had passed matric. Motsoeneng submits that it could be interpreted as such. 


10 Sep 12:33

An affidavit from Alwyn Kloppers is read out, and in it, Kloppers says that Motsoeneng never lied to the SABC about having a matric certificate.


10 Sep 12:30

10 Sep 12:26

"We must view education differently," says Motsoeneng. "Education for me, I learn every day."


10 Sep 12:23

10 Sep 12:22

Motsoeneng: "I never lied, chairperson. God knows, I never lied. Those people who have employed me, they know."

Motsoeneng tells Zondo he has won many awards within the SABC, and says he was never afraid of measuring up against people with qualifications.

Motsoeneng: "In my view, chairperson, I'm very educated. I'm very educated."

Motsoeneng says if you check all the (board meeting) minutes of the SABC, 70% of the resolutions of the board, or EXCO, "I'm the main man, influencing the decisions within the SABC. So that shows that I'm capable, I have skills."


10 Sep 12:17

10 Sep 12:14

10 Sep 12:13

10 Sep 12:11

10 Sep 12:10

10 Sep 12:09

Motsoeneng is currently going through his background at the SABC, explaining his trajectory through the ranks of the public broadcaster. Motsoeneng mentions his lack of a matric qualification repeatedly, emphasising that the information was never withheld.


10 Sep 12:03

Motsoeneng: "It doesn't go well with me when everyone, media and others, they portray me as a liar, including Public Protector, and I'm going to demonstrate to you chairperson, that, I was approached by Alwyn Kloppers..." 

Motsoeneng says that at that time, Alwyn Kloppers "was in charge of current affairs news", and he told him that he did not have a matric qualification. Motsoeneng says he was transparent from the start. 



10 Sep 11:58

Advocate Norman asks Motsoeneng what position he occupied at the SABC, and Motsoeneng responds by saying he went through it all, he has occupied all the positions at the SABC, except for board chair.


10 Sep 11:52

10 Sep 11:51

Proceedings resume. Advocate Thandi Norman will be leading Motsoeneng's evidence, and sorts out some procedural issues with Deputy Chief Justice Raymond Zondo before Motsoeneng is sworn in. 

With that out of the way, Motsoeneng is now sworn in.


10 Sep 11:41

10 Sep 11:41

Van Vuuren has completed his testimony and has been excused. Motsoeneng is expected to begin with his testimony after the morning tea adjournment.


10 Sep 11:41

First up on the witness stand with his SABC-related testimony is Post Office digital migration project manager Anton van Vuuren. Former SABC COO Hlaudi Motsoeneng is expected to follow after Van Vuuren.


10 Sep 11:41

ICYMI: 

Motsoeneng's qualifications were irrelevant in his appointment at SABC – ex-board chair 

Former SABC board chairperson Ben Ngubane has said that despite not having a matric qualification, Hlaudi Motsoeneng was appointed to executive positions at the state broadcaster because of his sterling track record.

Ngubane was on Monday testifying at the judicial commission of inquiry into state capture, which is led by Deputy Chief Justice Raymond Zondo. The inquiry is currently investigating allegations of corruption and fraud at the public broadcaster.

The former board chairperson was providing evidence on the circumstances surrounding former SABC Chief Operations Officer Hlaudi Motsoeneng. Earlier Ngubane told the commission that Motsoeneng was appointed because he was a skilled communicator and troubleshooter.

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