AS IT HAPPENED: Nathi Nhleko acted on wrong report to suspend, pursue prosecution against Dramat - McBride tells #StateCaptureInquiry

2019-04-11 16:00

The judicial commission of inquiry into state capture heard testimony from former IPID head Robert McBride, which could implicate up to 50 people, according to the commission's legal team.

WATCH LIVE | State Capture Inquiry 

(Courtesy of SABC) 

Former IPID boss Robert McBride
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Last Updated at 16:12
11 Apr 17:01
The commission adjourns and will resume tomorrow.

11 Apr 17:00

11 Apr 16:57
McBride says the portfolio committee on police failed to intervene in his suspension.

11 Apr 16:57

11 Apr 16:48
PP to continue with evidence of Khuba.

11 Apr 16:39

11 Apr 16:33
McBride: Some of the information I became aware of, subsequently in greater detail.

11 Apr 16:32
McBride: Evidence is a reflection of discussions that have previously taken place.

11 Apr 16:31
PP continues with evidence. McBride follows.

11 Apr 16:17
Testimony continues.

11 Apr 16:06

Zondo calls for another short adjournment, before continuing with McBride's testimony. 

Proceedings adjourned until 16:15.


11 Apr 16:05

11 Apr 15:59

McBride mentions his own suspension, says Nhleko accused him of fraudulently altering the rendition case investigation report.


11 Apr 15:55

11 Apr 15:49

Dramat was ultimately forced out of the service, and forced into early retirement, says McBride. He was then replaced by Ntlemeza.


11 Apr 15:46

11 Apr 15:36

11 Apr 15:30

McBride says the unsigned preliminary report which surfaced in the media, recommending criminal prosecution against Dramat and Sibiya, was not the report handed to Nhleko by him.


11 Apr 15:27

McBride says after sending the requested information, Nhleko then released a media statement saying that Dramat had been suspended as per an IPID recommendation. McBride says this was untrue.


11 Apr 15:24

11 Apr 15:23

McBride says after the appointment of Nathi Nhleko as police minister, Nhleko started a "reference" group, looking into many of the cases. Some members of this group visited IPID to enquire about several matters, the rendition case among those. The group was made up of public officials, including Advocate Raymond Mathenjwa, who seemed unhappy with the explanation regarding the rendition case, says McBride.


11 Apr 15:12

11 Apr 15:07

McBride talks about the finalised recommendation report being handed to him, and its conclusion. 

McBride says further investigations revealed there was no element of crime committed in the rendition case, related to Dramat. Similarly, the report found evidence related to Sibiya's involvement could not support prosecution - there was nothing justifying prosecution.


11 Apr 14:55

McBride says he tasked IPID national head of investigations, Matthew Sesoko, with overseeing all review processes and told Khuba to report to Sesoko on the matter. McBride says Khuba, who was investigating the matter in Limpopo, was previously told not to involve Sesoko.


11 Apr 14:49

11 Apr 14:48

McBride says after analysing the phone records of those accused in the rendition case, the cellphone records of Sibiya showed he was nowhere near the areas where the Zimbabweans were tracked down and arrested. 

McBride also says as far as he could determine, Dramat's link was that he had allegedly congratulated officers on the arrest of the Zimbabweans via SMS.


11 Apr 14:39

11 Apr 14:36

McBride says he was "nervous" about Crime Intelligence's involvement in the case. "I got my guard up," says McBride.


11 Apr 14:29

11 Apr 14:28

McBride mentions an interaction he had with former Limpopo head of IPID, Innocent Khuba.

McBride: "For me the issue was, and I had raised it then, why is Crime Intelligence involved in your investigation? Are we not separate from SAPS now? From my understanding, we are separate and independent." 

McBride: "And, immediately upon posing that specific question, Mr Khuba said to me 'Boss' - this is the first time in my life I was called boss - 'Boss, let me be open with you from the beginning; I was concerned and scared about this case from the day it was given to me'." 

McBride says when Khuba said that, it led him to ask further questions. McBride says Khuba elaborated, but he "clearly was still shaken up then".



11 Apr 14:18

11 Apr 14:17

11 Apr 14:16

McBride says Dramat, then-head of the Hawks, "was forced out of office" and was replaced (on an acting basis) by Berning Ntlemeza, who then dismissed Sibiya.


11 Apr 14:13

11 Apr 14:12

The focus has now shifted to the "rendition case" - dealing with the repatriation of Zimbabweans from South Africa back to Zimbabwe - which occurred prior to McBride's appointment at IPID. 

Anwa Dramat and others were accused of masterminding the "illegal" repatriation of these Zimbabweans, and McBride says it was recommended that Dramat and Shadrack Sibiya, among others, be prosecuted. McBride was briefed on the case when he was appointed in March 2014. 


11 Apr 14:04

Back from the lunch break, McBride continues where he left off, with Pretorius still leading his evidence.


11 Apr 13:51

11 Apr 13:51

11 Apr 12:59

Pretorius now shifts the focus to the next topic, but says it is quite lengthy and given the time, it might be prudent to continue with it after the lunch break. 

Zondo adjourns proceedings until 14:00. 


11 Apr 12:58

11 Apr 12:55

11 Apr 12:45

11 Apr 12:40

McBride says there was a joint statement between himself and the Hawks, Anwa Dramat and Ivan Pillay related to attempts to weaken anti-corruption institutions.


11 Apr 12:39

McBride suggests there was an attempt to weaken law enforcement agencies "to cover up crimes that have occurred and crimes that are to come".

McBride says before the term "state capture" was coined, he and others had used terms like "silent coup" and "political gangsterism".


11 Apr 12:33

11 Apr 12:32

Back from the impromptu break, Pretorius continues leading McBride's evidence.


11 Apr 12:25

Pretorius interrupts McBride's testimony to request a brief adjournment, as one of the commission's staff members had just become "ill". 

Zondo adjourns proceedings until 12:30. 


11 Apr 12:24

11 Apr 12:15

McBride says collaboration with the Inspector General of Intelligence (IGI) brought forward a litany of corruption cases.


11 Apr 12:10

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