AT IT HAPPENED: McBride concludes testimony for now, Zondo commission to resume with new witness on the stand

2019-04-16 09:34

Deputy chief justice Raymond Zondo has dismissed former SARS boss Tom Moyane’s application for leave to cross-examine Public Enterprises Minister Pravin Gordhan. The testimony of former IPID head Robert McBride continues at state capture inquiry.


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Last Updated at 06:08
16 Apr 15:25

McBride is excused. 

The commission adjourns until 10:00 tomorrow morning, where former KwaZulu-Natal Hawks Head General Johan Booysen, is expected to testify. 

We adjourn.


16 Apr 15:23

Pretorius asks if McBride has any further comments before conclusion. He asks if he can deal with an affidavit of December 10 at a later stage.

Zondo thanks McBride. "We will be seeing you again," Zondo says. 


16 Apr 15:16

16 Apr 15:15

16 Apr 15:13
In October 2014 the minister of police established a reference group. At the time, the ministry would use the reference group, the group included public officials. 

16 Apr 15:09
Rogue elements in the police service were protected by the NPA, says McBride.

16 Apr 14:58

Icymi...

 Police ministry's chief of staff a convicted fraudster

The man tasked with running Nathi Nhleko's police ministry is a convicted fraudster who was sentenced to four years’ imprisonment in 2002.

Leon Abednigo Mbangwa was found guilty of fraud and jailed for four years on December 13, 2002, police spokesperson Sergeant Ann Poortman has confirmed to News24.

Despite this, he managed to secure a senior position as chief of staff in the police ministry.

Mbangwa admitted to having spent some time in Pretoria Central Prison for fraud. He was released in August 2003.


16 Apr 14:50

16 Apr 14:44

16 Apr 14:44
The key question is why the minister of police would hire a criminal? There is no reasonable explanation. This is what was taking place when IPID was under attack. 

16 Apr 14:43

Leon Mbangwa, real name Lionel Moyo, was employed by Nathi Nhleko as a chief of staff. He is a Zimbabwean. He had not been naturalized. Was arrested for false ID. Was convicted and served custodial sentence, he also recently appeared in court for false documentation. No security clearance. 

At the time of applying for security clearance, McBride was on suspension. 


16 Apr 14:38

Pretorius: Any knowledge about PCLU and the crimes against the state unit?

Direct links between CATS and PCLU. Cases are passed on to PCLU, there has to be a process of involving NDP in these matters. Not sure if they comply with this provision, but they work hand in glove.


16 Apr 14:35

16 Apr 14:28

16 Apr 14:24

McBride speaks about meeting with Shaun Abrahams:

He proceeded to tell deputies that no one was allowed to make any comments. Afterwards, I said to him I’m glad I didn’t leave your meeting. We departed in a professional manner, but it really was an eye-opener to see the attitude of the NDPP. 


16 Apr 14:15
McBride: They are quick to charge anti-corruption people, but dragged their feet when dealing with a number of cases like Mabula and Panday. 

16 Apr 14:10

16 Apr 14:07

16 Apr 13:02

The heads - Moyane is gone, Abrahams is gone - the point I’m saying is in any event those meetings should have been taking place for national interest. Overall all these agencies are there to root out malice activities. 

We adjourn for lunch hour.


16 Apr 12:59

16 Apr 12:59

Threats, intimidation and harassment of IPID officers continued.

McBride: After my return I realised that the criminal justice system is eroding, I became concerned about national security and approached crime intelligence.


16 Apr 12:50

There was a fear amongst investigators because of what they had seen being done. So others were a bit hesitant and would request to see me as to how we should approach it. They were not sleeping at home, they were moving around to different places.

We became aware of the illegal use of tracking equipment to arrest O’Sullivan for a second time. The only other time I had to live like this was as an activist during apartheid, says McBride.


16 Apr 12:41
Matter be struck off the role, was not adhered to by Mabula team. Judge Prinsloo application taken to the High Court was an interdict against Mabula team to stop the harassment and interference in the IPID, McBride explains.

16 Apr 12:31
They demoralise the good people who come to work and do their jobs, says McBride. Good police officers assist IPID as whistleblowers when they see corrupt activities.

16 Apr 12:28

16 Apr 12:27
He says people are promoted when they do a favour for their seniors, McBride says, the idea of being investigated they don't like. 

16 Apr 12:25

16 Apr 12:24
Police system (SAPS) works on patronage. That’s how it’s been running. Promotions in forensics would be related to assistance and facilitating. Everybody has an interest to protect the seniors. Also, a process where people who have been at the same colleges together or other experiences they share give them the advantage, McBride explains.

16 Apr 12:20

16 Apr 12:20

Pretorius: On what basis were charges contemplated of racketeering for yourself?

McBride: On the top of my head, I can’t remember.

Said he was aware of a conversation to charge him, it was the Mabula team talking to a prosecutor to obtain a search warrant. Upon being asked if he could help in any way, McBride said he was investigating corruption, said he cannot come to any agreement or understanding, there are suspects of IPID so they must do what they want. 


16 Apr 12:13

16 Apr 12:08
 "General Phahlane opposed the validity of the search warrant, the litigation is still ongoing," McBride adds.

16 Apr 12:07

16 Apr 11:58
A North West police team, also known as the Mabula team, set up in Gauteng arrested O’Sullivan and colleague, they were charged with impersonation of officials. The Mabula team visited several witnesses who implicated Phahlane, their statements were altered. These witnesses initially said they saw bags of money being handed over to contractors. 

16 Apr 11:51

Icymi...

EXCLUSIVE: This is police chief's controversial house

The upmarket house owned by acting police commissioner General Khomotso Phahlane, that forms the basis of an IPID probe, is in one of Gauteng's most exclusive lifestyle estates.

The house, of which News24 has obtained a picture, is thought to be worth about R8m.

The Independent Police Investigative Directorate (IPID) has been conducting an investigation into how Phahlane managed to afford the house, which he had built in 2011 and 2012.


16 Apr 11:50
During investigation, Phahlane laid a security breach complaint which was untrue, and in fact was  IPID conducting a search. This occurred in 2017.

16 Apr 11:44
Paul O'Sullivan was the complainant, says McBride. 

16 Apr 11:42

16 Apr 11:40
McBride says that when he returned to work on the 19th of October 2016, he got word from Paul O'Sullivan that the complaint against Phahlane had not been dealt with. 

16 Apr 11:38

16 Apr 11:38

"Cases investigated by IPID were prematurely closed without doing proper investigation. This was intended to portray an impression that performance had been better under your predecessor." - Adv. Pretorius.

"Correct" - McBride


16 Apr 11:35

16 Apr 11:35

In an alleged recording of a call, transcripts reveal crime intelligence official Tlou Kgomo and IPID investigator Mandla Mahlangu conspiring and saying that McBride is “going down”. Following the call, a counter-investigation ensued, says McBride.


16 Apr 11:22

16 Apr 11:22

Investigation into police officers and counter-investigation is a matter to be dealt with shortly. We will explain the origin of that list of names, says Pretorius.

The context is what McBride described as a questionable counter-investigation. 

“That is correct. The larger picture is important…Police are protecting themselves…”says McBride.


16 Apr 11:19
We reconvene. Pretorius jumps straight into picking up where he left off yesterday, dealing with the phonecall transcripts. 

16 Apr 11:09
Tea adjournment. We will resume with McBride on the stand at 11:15.

16 Apr 11:04

16 Apr 10:59

16 Apr 10:58

Points by Moyane includes:

a) Actual events and evidential material to lay charges against Gordhan.

b) Credibility of Gordhan as a witness in state capture can’t be taken with anything less than a pinch of salt.

Only concern, says Zondo, is the allegation that Gordhan alleged malice on applicant in laying charges against himI will issue direction what I’d like both parties to address with regards to that issue.

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