ANC adopts final info bill draft

2012-11-27 10:55

Cape Town - The ANC adopted the final draft of the protection of state information bill on Tuesday in the absence of opposition parties, who walked out in protest.

The eight ruling party MPs on the ad hoc committee handling the draft official secrets law voted unanimously to adopt a report to the National Council of Provinces outlining changes made to it in the past year.

"It is done. We are very happy that we have come so far," said ANC lawmaker Sam Mazosiwe.

The report also contains the objecting views of other political parties, but the Democratic Alliance and the Congress of the People refused to vote on the document because it was handed out only after the meeting began.

"We were told we would have the report at the weekend, not half-an-hour after the meeting began," said the DA's Alf Lees.

He said it was impossible to study the report in a short time to see whether it accurately reflected both amendments agreed to and dissenting minority reviews.

Committee chairperson Raseriti Tau accused the opposition of reneging on an agreement to adopt the report on Tuesday, but Lees said the undertaking could not stand given the delay in producing the document.

Eleventh hour changes

Last week, the ANC made eleventh hour changes to the bill after coming under renewed pressure from its ally, the Congress of SA Trade Unions, relenting on some of its most contested clauses.

The ANC notably went against the wishes of State Security Minister Siyabonga Cwele by proposing to reinsert a clause offering protection for those who reveal classified information to expose a crime.

It also agreed to scrap a clause that expressly stated that the new legislation would trump the progressive Promotion of Access to Information Act, which was passed in 2000 to give citizens the right to access the information necessary to exercise their constitutional rights. Thirdly, it moved to give explicit permission to the public protector, the auditor general and all other chapter nine institutions to be in possession of classified information.

The ruling party made plain that it would not consider further changes to the bill, which has met with sustained protest since it was introduced two-and-a-half years ago and has been slated as a throwback to apartheid-era state secrecy.

Opposition parties have welcomed the changes, but like civil society groups they say these do not go far enough to promote transparency and protect whistle-blowers.

The report was expected to be put to the NCOP on Thursday, but the committee was considering delaying the debate in the council until next week.

After its likely adoption by the council, given the ANC's majority in the chamber, it has to be referred back to the National Assembly for approval of the amendments.

  • frank.kistler.31 - 2012-11-27 10:59

    Just what the ANC wanted........."ANC adopts final info bill draft"absence of opposition parties, who walked out in protest"

      greg.quinn.353 - 2012-11-27 11:12

      Yep, another nail in the coffin...

      gary.guy.507 - 2012-11-27 11:15

      Exaclty! Goodbye South Africa .... was nice knowing you!

      gerhard.muller.988 - 2012-11-27 11:15

      Why don't they just instruct all employers to pay all employees net salaries directly into the ANC bank account? It will be a lot easier than spending the whole day trying to pass laws to cover up what their ultimate goal is.

      christopher.shining - 2012-11-27 11:16

      Well if anyone has information on corrupt officials and their wheeling and dealings, the internet is a great source of information. No one needs to know who leaked the information...the day is coming very soon that the young of this country will have enough of these old gits running this country to the ground. And we will take what you took away from the true South Africans. Don't think you can pillage now and not be held responsible for your actions when the time comes...cannot wait.

      Slowrider - 2012-11-27 11:22

      South Africa was a democracy. You cannot make a choice, or vote, without all relevant information.

      grant.hide - 2012-11-27 11:24

      They thinks they can get away with it. Haha. We the people can be blown up with mortars, bombs, shot at, we will still outnumber them, ther problem (us) wont go away. Bunker might protect u, but water flows down, diesel generators need fuel and u needs air. 1+1=2 its no secret.

      charlesdumbwin.dumbwin - 2012-11-27 11:25

      This is why we have SO MANY failed Banana Republic states across Africa...

      harald.voney - 2012-11-27 11:57

      @ Christopher, yes you right, the internet is a great place to find out information... Except, no one will want to publish this info becasue they can go to jail I(so no-one will know about it), AND none of this information will be able to be used because it was obtained "illegally", so a blunt sword! Thats the reality of the bill mate....

      narike.lintvelt.9 - 2012-11-27 12:01

      I've started a petition supporting SA's opposition parties' motion of no confidence in Pres Zuma. Please take the time to sign and share this. Thank you.

      heathway.master - 2012-11-27 12:06

      Another matter for the Constitutional Court to decide on. The arrogance and dictatorial attitude of the ANC is becoming intolerable. The only power left to the people is to all stop paying taxes. Put it in a trust account set up by a large number of lawyers to keep the whole process honest. Let’s all see how the ANC copes with that one, and whether they are still resolute with rule by dictatorial decree.

      lsfreak - 2012-11-27 13:38

      And here we thought we're going to have a vote in Zipper in Feb... Like thats gonna happen. The cANCer is a sneaky, lying bunch of criminals and no real Government of the country :/

      CapeIndependence - 2012-11-27 14:46

      Time to declare the Cape Independent..

      christopher.shining - 2012-11-27 14:49

      @Harold. It is not illegal to get information from the net. And I don't know if you know how are they going to track the person that leaked the information. Its impossible. you can leak information a million ways without it coming back to you.And whats on the public domain is not illegal, its already made public. And if its public they can investigate the claims.

      mike.bundy.73 - 2012-11-28 06:58

      christopher you have missed the point - the information can be out there on the 'net but it cannot be used in a court as it was originally obtained illegally according to this dreadful secrecy bill. - 2012-11-28 09:52

      Must read -

  • werner.nel.712 - 2012-11-27 11:02

    Zimbabwe the second...

      jeremy.thewasp - 2012-11-27 11:27

      Welcome to the Communist South Africa people!! There is a saying - If you want to kill a frog, you don't just throw him in a pot of boiling water, you throw him in cold water and gently turn up the heat (18 years of ANC rule) Since 1994 the ANC have always had a plan and they have been implementing it slowly over the years, this is the start to silence their new laws and policies which are going to be 100% apartheid in reverse Violent & savage crime / farm murders has been part of their policy, their are camps scattered all over the country training black youths to slowly eliminate whites Their are already chinese Military bases in SA and Zim, the Chinese are coming!!!!!!!!!!!!They have been part of this joint venture for many years, Zuma is just a puppet for them and their plans. Manguang is going to be the tipping point... We are in big trouble people, BIG trouble! Well - this is my opinion anyway......

      dinesh.chetty.77 - 2012-11-27 13:31

      Jeremy, why are you so afraid to share things. Didn't your Church and family tech you to share. Jesus would be disappointed with someone like you who basis his life on greed and hates poeple who like to share. Communism =sharing. Democracy = Greed

      edward.patterson.923 - 2012-11-27 14:42

      @Diinesh I thought you would be younger to have such a naive view of the world. Communism=sharing. If by sharing you mean sharing the pain, poverty, and powerlessness then you are right. Let's all share in Stalin's purges that eliminated 10's of millions of the opposition. Or maybe share in the "cultural revolution" that wiped out untold millions in China. Or maybe we could share the hunger and the cold of the communist state of North Korea. Dinesh, show me one successful communist state. Democracy should equal a level playing field. In other words you can go as far as your abilities will take you. What you fail to understand is that greed is one of the things that motivates people. In communist states the same greed exists and those who are unwaveringly loyal to the state get to have their greed satiated. What till the Chinese take over and then you will know reality. But unfortunately once that happens there will be no turning back. Check their history the Chinese communists are brutal MASTERS. And make no mistake they aren't coming to share they are coming to rule.

      CapeIndependence - 2012-11-27 15:32

      We MUST save the Cape..

  • braamc - 2012-11-27 11:06

    Now we we can rob the tax payer even more and now one will know. Filthy thieving criminals

      SarelJBotha - 2012-11-27 11:59

      They are farting against the wind. No legislation will ever stop all the people from doing what is right.

  • stefan.kruger.1297 - 2012-11-27 11:10

    We still have freedom of speech idiots!! So we Will say the truth about you regardless of your laws!!! Music an songs will fill these lands with truth.. hahaha!!

      narike.lintvelt.9 - 2012-11-27 12:02

      I've started a petition supporting SA's opposition parties' motion of no confidence in Pres Zuma. Please take the time to sign and share this. Thank you.

  • charl.malan.12 - 2012-11-27 11:10

    A disgrace to the constitution of South Africa!

  • morris.khunou - 2012-11-27 11:10

    Good! Long overdue! But I am afraid I has long lost its original value, as it was tempered with many times! We have a lot of self appointed and un-patriotic agents in SA. They are physically here but their minds and souls are in Europe! Such people cannot be trusted with crucial state info! If they cant take it, show them the map!!! Klaar!!!

      gary.guy.507 - 2012-11-27 11:14

      Jy is Klaar nou boet!

      charl.malan.12 - 2012-11-27 11:14

      Take your racist tendencies and go fly a kite, move to Uganda or Zimbabwe if you agree with this kind of behavior!

      travis.vermaak - 2012-11-27 11:14

      Care to explain what value the bill adds to South African tax payers?

      stefan.kruger.1297 - 2012-11-27 11:17

      You sound like Malema with your Agents comment... Maybe you should open your eyes to the world, and see us as Humans, One race together.. not just South Africans... We are selfish to call ourselves South Africans..We are all Africans, and here we stand while our children DIE all over our continent... Take all that money that they spend on Zuma's house, and not ONE PERSON WOULD GO HUNGRY!!

      serena.johnston.7 - 2012-11-27 11:18

      You are physically here, but minus a brain!!!!!!!!!!!!!

      charl.malan.12 - 2012-11-27 11:20

      @serena.johnston.7 hahahahaha good one!

      godesha - 2012-11-27 11:22

      Really now Morris? You will suffer the same fate as the rest of the people in this country. The government will rob you blind just like the rest of us or do you think that will say: "Oh no!!! Let's not take from Morris because he is a patriot"? Get real man.

      gary.maggz - 2012-11-27 11:24

      Agents??? Who in their right minds,back or white would ever want to be patriotic to a Govt. who fumbles around with our money as if it belongs to them and want to cover up their criminal activities with this info. bill. Its racist idiots like you wihtout much common sense or intelligence that will destroy this country.Catch a wake up racist pig!!

      teresa.villarini - 2012-11-27 11:26

      Really? And this is the sperm that won?

      GregGow1234 - 2012-11-27 11:45

      @morris.khunou: You are very unpatriotic indigenous person, how very disgusting.

      richard.zanner - 2012-11-27 11:51

      You idiot have you not understood that transparency is being taken away from you to.

      colin.langley - 2012-11-27 11:57's totally official..people like YOU should be put against a wall and shot. We have to do something to remove you from the gene pool.

      SarelJBotha - 2012-11-27 12:01

      Morris, it is people like you that we should get rid off. You clearly have no idea on what real freedom is and I feel ashamed that a country as beautiful as SA could spawn someone like you. I hope your family is ashamed of you, as they should be.

      morris.khunou - 2012-11-27 12:55

      @ Charl et al! Given anybody who doesnt agree with you is an idiot! If you truly believe that I am a fool,it really raises questions about your ability to make proper judgement! This country need to cleanse its self from people like you! This is exactly my call, you guys leave a bitter taste. Many of you are nothing but remnants of appartheid crying for spilt milk! The Bill has nothing to do with concealing corrupt activities. If you have the reason to believe the classification for concealing corruption. You can apply for diclassification through mearsures stated in the bill. Educate me of any country that does not classify info!It is people like you who put our country of espionage! Remember many of you are voyagers, backpackers etc and you lack that true sense of belonging. The many astrocities you committed during and post appartheid cannot be washed away.i.e throwing people live in lions enclosures, painting children with silver paints, random and brainless shooting of blacks etc. Will not make you my friend honestly! Howerver there are many whites who are progressive and has embraced change, that I get along with. We dicuss our country's problems honestely and sincerely not hogwash that I read here daily!

      travis.vermaak - 2012-11-27 13:04

      Care to explain what value the bill adds to South African tax payers?

      jacob.zoomer.9 - 2012-11-27 13:18

      LOL... I mentioned this the other day. Here is another die hard Zuma/ANC fan (denialist?) who just refuses to see that what the ANC (IWontC makes more sense actually) are doing will not just affect non-ANC members, but EVERYBODY. Morris, my friend, I respect you for voicing your opinion, but surely you cannot be serious. For years now, countless ANC MP's have been caught red-handed with corruption and even some more sinister, blatantly illegal activities. But still you feel that us whites, obviously your comment was meant to discriminate against me and my race since we're 'European', are the main problem in this country. Read this now and understand (if it is possible), we whites are the MINORITY. There are only about 4 million of us in this country, a number declining by the day. Everything the ANC is doing will negatively affect more Blacks than any other racial group cause you guys are the MAJORITY. Keeping on voting for them but really in the end, you are just going to kick yourself up the arse. It is just that simple.

      leonard.benjamin.129 - 2012-11-27 13:25

      Morris. Will you pay for me and my family to relocate?

      hein.huyser - 2012-11-27 14:09

      Morris, when your emperor leaves you hungry because affordable food and good jobs are out of reach for you, remember me, I will give you a bread, even though you hate me. This I will do because I don't hate you, I pity you.

      morris.khunou - 2012-11-27 16:31

      Post 1994 we extended our hand of friendship even if we were not the guilty party, but alas our supremesist's hands were tight at the back. One last advice join the ANC and change it from within! I am not a vulgor and not capable of being a racist!

      aspruyt - 2012-11-27 16:39

      "I am not a vulgor and not capable of being a racist!" Hahaha, you are quite the comedian.

  • ian.zyl.3 - 2012-11-27 11:10

    This does nothing but prove exactly how much the ANC and the ANC Government have to hide. If the protection of whistleblowers goes out the window, it means that the ANC is criminalising the exposure of corruption in a sense. Draconic, police state tactics.

  • mabula.mtsweti - 2012-11-27 11:15

    I dont think its possible for me to despise these filthy rotten f'kers more than I already do!!! There are no fowl words to describe what they really are!

      steve.ritchie.739 - 2012-11-27 12:15

      Could not have stated it better. Well said Mabula. I really hope that there are many more South Africans that are like-minded. Hopefully the opposition parties that walked out in protest will challenge this in the Constitutional Court.

  • wynand.bothma - 2012-11-27 11:16

    Words cannot fathom the intense hatred I feel for you ANC crooks!!! You are milking the country at the expense of your own people who's suffering and then you blame the white middle class! Sickening. Drive through Limpopo, Mpumalanga and KZN - it looks worse than Zim in some places! I drove through Pongola / Josini, I thought I accidentally strayed into Mozambique!!

      wo0two0t - 2012-11-27 11:56

      They blame us then take our money to spend on their lavish lifestyles and leave the scraps for their voters - useless bunch completely useless to anyone.

  • Tshephangsithole - 2012-11-27 11:17

    Congrats, now the tax payers money can be chao'd without thier knowledge. This will be a weapon to silence any corrupt info about the ruling party.

      narike.lintvelt.9 - 2012-11-27 12:03

      I've started a petition supporting SA's opposition parties' motion of no confidence in Pres Zuma. Please take the time to sign and share this. Thank you.

      elgh.elgh - 2012-11-27 12:23

      Our tax money should not be paid over to sars anymore but rather a third party who has no interest in our country. As long as we fill their pockets, the longer they will stick arround.

  • Forgotten - 2012-11-27 11:17

    South African Government = WANKERS!!!!!

      raymond.romans.5 - 2012-11-27 11:27

      Syphyllitic Atrocius Goons

  • godesha - 2012-11-27 11:18

    Now they will be able to do whatever they want and no one will be any the wiser. This is how you fix things by writing legislation to cover up the mess. It is a very sad day for this country and the people.

  • stuart.warren.5 - 2012-11-27 11:19

    so much for living in a democracy.

  • dinesh.chetty.77 - 2012-11-27 11:20

    This is what democracy is all about. Gotta love it. Doesn;t matter who the ruling party is in a democracy, its all about how much we can borrow from the international banking mafia(Sometimes called the FED), telling the public it for building power stations and highways, and giving there cousins contracts to build these things. Democracy is a money system and it feed on corruption.

      aspruyt - 2012-11-27 11:31

      No... corruption feeds on people with no morals and values. Primitive cultures who refuse to adapt. Africa has been stuck in this cycle forever.

      dinesh.chetty.77 - 2012-11-27 13:52

      Aspruyt. You are Racist. I hope you learn from this quote: "Galatians 3:28" There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither slave nor free, there is no male and female, for you are all one in Christ Jesus. "

      aspruyt - 2012-11-27 16:11

      Quoting scripture now turns me into a racist? Wake up bigot =) PS. No mention of colour was made and bringing religion into anything will discredit you as you move from fact to fiction.

      iszi.doe - 2012-11-27 16:36

      Seems to be a common theme, some one does not agree with me, they must be racist!

  • Jaco JP Venter - 2012-11-27 11:22

    Dont warry people there are many ways to kill a cat this is not going to help the ANC what it does is to show all there voters that they do got something to hide. Just look at Zimbawe.

  • Antipoaching - 2012-11-27 11:24

    Onward to the Constitutional Court!

  • Phelamanga - 2012-11-27 11:25

    It will be scrapped once the DA rule. Only a few more years of protecting compromised people. Patience!

      narike.lintvelt.9 - 2012-11-27 12:03

      I've started a petition supporting SA's opposition parties' motion of no confidence in Pres Zuma. Please take the time to sign and share this. Thank you.

  • KyleVDMerwe7 - 2012-11-27 11:28

    The ANC at the moment is the worst thing that has ever happened to this country, they are going to run SA even deeper into the ground.

  • aspruyt - 2012-11-27 11:29

    FU cANCer. You are just digging your hole and the countries even faster than ever. Very soon taking my expertise somewhere else.

  • charl.malan.12 - 2012-11-27 11:29

    @morris.khunou I think you and your striped xmas jersey should make a swift exit out of this country, we seriously don't need racist fools like yourself ruining it for everyone else, Uganda, Zimbabwe, Nigeria, take your pic, there you will find everything that South africa will become if the ANC carries on steeling its citizens dry and voting people like Jacob Zuma into power! Be gone little fool

      morris.khunou - 2012-11-27 13:32

      Charl you took that mampuru for breafast again! Let me help you! Morris = indegenous Charl = Voyager,adventurer Lastly Carl I am not capable of being a racist! I am only against binnal thinkers like you, who thinks there is only one way! During Vervoerd information concealing brutal activities were acceptable. Disclossing this you will be detained without trial and sentenced to death!

      charl.malan.12 - 2012-11-27 14:13

      And you truely believe the ANC is on the right path?? It surely can't be the way can it? How can u believe in a info bill that is there to protect the already corrupt government officials to now steal even more then they are already stealing? Do you pay tax?

      charl.malan.12 - 2012-11-27 14:18

      Just for the record, Ihad nothing to do with apartheid!

  • craig.lott.589 - 2012-11-27 11:31

    We know what wiki-leaks did to the United States, so now, any whistle blowers, please use the Internet to reveal all the facts. I believe that even as the ANC legislate their cover ups, information is already being collected on some sites.

      Johannes - 2012-11-27 15:52

      I don't know. What did wiki-leaks do? I am serious when I say this, but it did not change a damn thing.

  • Prince Bird - 2012-11-27 11:31

    Morena boloka South Africa!#Let's pray for this thieves.....!

  • Noble Goliath - 2012-11-27 11:31

    Is this Morris dude really that Stupid? The only thing which ANC can do best is Corruption.

      mauritz.oberholzer1 - 2012-11-27 12:08

      Think he is one of the guys benefiting from this corruption.

  • ernest.letsoalo - 2012-11-27 11:34

    I smell trouble..I wonder what will happen with the elections,will we get the accurate results?..ANC is corrupt,full stop,and will do anything to stay in power..

  • Puseletso Phambane - 2012-11-27 11:34

    African National Dictators!!Only God can save us nw,we need to join forces in prayer for our futures in ths Land.

      charl.malan.12 - 2012-11-27 11:36

      The only thing that can save us is the power of the vote for change in 2014, we all need to stand together and protect this country!

      narike.lintvelt.9 - 2012-11-27 12:04

      I've started a petition supporting SA's opposition parties' motion of no confidence in Pres Zuma. Please take the time to sign and share this. Thank you.

  • megalos.savvas - 2012-11-27 11:42

    What's the difference , We know they are stealing our money anyway and nothing is done about it so what difference does it make ITS NO SECRET

      harald.voney - 2012-11-27 12:03

      now they want to make it a secret... don't talk about it. Becasue if you dont talk about it, it didnt happen... and if it didnt happen, then ppl will still vote for us.... and if ppl vote for us, we will stay in power until Jesus comes... as long as you don't talk about it. Talk about what???

  • GregGow1234 - 2012-11-27 11:43

    They would never be able to stop the Facebook and Twitter exposure as in most cases this is hard to track back to source if its run off a fake account. So the state info bill is actually never going to work in anyway.

      lindaawhelan - 2012-11-27 13:01

      There is a huge difference between internet chatter and national news. We can comment forever but the people who should know the extent of the corruption never will, all they will hear is how wonderful life is under the ANC and that is very scary.

  • maylani.bezuidenhout - 2012-11-27 11:43

    Well farewell everyone, its been great arguing, laughing and finding common ground with all of you. Who do you think they are going to shut down first? My bet is on News24! What a sad day for democracy in South Africa..

  • danie.malan - 2012-11-27 11:43

    So the parties have to vote on a document they haven't received? And on the same account the ANC members present adopted a document they haven't seen?

  • Karabo Phetoane - 2012-11-27 11:46

    Is it the first time you hear about this act/bill? in the USA and other democratic countries they have such laws and its just that they are using different terms to define and classify them like Military classified information and White House classified information

      charl.malan.12 - 2012-11-27 12:06

      The information is not to oppress the people of the nation, get your facts straight!

      Donkervlie - 2012-11-27 12:21

      Yes but in the USA it is also different people with different agendas

      maylani.bezuidenhout - 2012-11-27 13:37

      Ja boet... Karabo ever wonder why apartheid atrocities happened and the people didn't do anything about it? Its because they didn't know about it! First time I got any idea that there was a struggle was when they declared a state of emergency. There is no justifiable reason for keeping secrets from the public unless you are at war.. at war with your own people!

  • ethanhawk385 - 2012-11-27 11:46

    This marks the end of Democracy in South Africa. Goodbye beloved country.

  • firmsly.kabelo - 2012-11-27 11:49

    Why is the ANC taking us backwards instead of taking us forward? We dont want secrecy about our money and how it is used. But ANC has seen that transparency is killing their corrupt activities.

      narike.lintvelt.9 - 2012-11-27 12:04

      I've started a petition supporting SA's opposition parties' motion of no confidence in Pres Zuma. Please take the time to sign and share this. Thank you.

      maylani.bezuidenhout - 2012-11-27 13:43

      The ANC have just silenced the most effective opposition, the free press. Now you will never know how much Zuma spends on Nkandla or how many babies die at a state hospital. We will all live in blissful ignorance just like during apartheid... our only hope is that they will be as ineffective in applying this law as they are in just about every other law. Oh except for stealing, I mean collecting taxes - somehow SARS is the only government dept that runs properly. Funny that.

  • tim.brink.1238 - 2012-11-27 11:51

    Another dark day

  • koos.vandermerwe.75 - 2012-11-27 11:56

    Please people, don’t insult bananas like this. They are useful things.

  • SarelJBotha - 2012-11-27 11:57

    No legislation that is not in perfect harmony with common law should ever be allowed to be forced upon us. If this legislation prevents people from telling the truth, then no-one should ever even consider it as binding. Hopefully the concourt will for once do what is right for us the human beings and not just toe the state line, like they did with the etoll saga so far. Unfair judges needs to look in history and see what happens to them when the people have had enough unjust actions ofrced upon them.

  • sthembiso.jali.50 - 2012-11-27 11:59

    Some comments are just amazing...!

      harald.voney - 2012-11-27 12:04

      you like?

      Wally Wal - 2012-11-27 12:13

      Its the only way to hide their sins beware anc someone from above is watching you

  • martin.gee.godfrey - 2012-11-27 12:00

    There is little or no difference now betweetn the curent ANC regime and the Nationalist party regime pre-1994. Both governments have systems in place to oppress those who disagree with government. The Nats had the Official Secrets Act and the State Of Emergency laws, the ANC has the Information Bill. The Nats had laws in place to exclude people on the colour of their skin (apartheid) the ANC have laws in place to exclude people on the colour of their skin (AA & BEE). The Nats ruled by fear by telling whites they would be wiped out if blacks got into power, the ANC rule by fear telling blacks that apartheid will return if the whites come back into power.... need I go on? One regime simply replaced another. Cry The Beloved Country!!

      harald.voney - 2012-11-27 12:05

      Wit Grevaar... has replaced Swart Gewaar!! hahaha... its so silly!!

      dinesh.chetty.77 - 2012-11-27 13:39

      It not the same. They beat us an put us in jail for making love to a white girl or swiming in an ocean. Now we can f%&k as many as we want and swim and live anyway. You donot understand apartheid my friend.

      nigel.burgess.334 - 2012-11-27 13:59

      Dinesh - you don't understand how much more we're all losing out on through not having an honest government and a true democracy. You're getting bogged down by one picture in the book instead of reading the whole book. Life doesn't start and end with who you can make love with and have a swim with. We're talking about the survival of an entire country, or what's left of it.

      dinesh.chetty.77 - 2012-11-27 14:32

      Nigel you right its not about making love. I just tried to show that apartheid was not like what we have now. It a pity you didn't see this point, which was a response to someone saying that they are the same.

      kerri.barlow.5 - 2012-11-27 18:00

      You're very right dinesh.chetty.77. No one is trying to diminish the pain that apartheid caused. But you can't deny the similarities between the two groups. The NATS didn't just all of sudden enforce apartheid. It was slow. Its starts like this. We need to learn from history. Look beyond who was hurting who. Look at the tactics used. Don't be blinded by colour. We are all human.

      martin.gee.godfrey - 2012-11-27 20:44

      Dinesh: Read what I said. All we have is one regime replacing the other. I do understand apartheid and I know it was evil but that was not the point of my comment. My point is, is that this regime is no better than the last and like the last one, they cannot take any criticism and they are oppressing everyone.

  • narike.lintvelt.9 - 2012-11-27 12:01

    I've started a petition supporting SA's opposition parties' motion of no confidence in Pres Zuma. Please take the time to sign and share this. Thank you.

      thulanit3 - 2012-11-27 12:06

      Fravolous motion really, the man still enjoys the support of majority in the country, i have no time for fruitless exercise!

  • andremandela.julias - 2012-11-27 12:04

    cANCer GFY

  • mbasa.makubalo.7 - 2012-11-27 12:08

    Well done ANC this is what I call governing the country.if opposition want to govern they must win at the polls 1st.Jacob Zuma must stop being nice all the time,he must fight fire with fire.$ince he is not educated he can ask for some advise from his educated friend Robert Mugabe.

      charl.malan.12 - 2012-11-27 12:11

      The only good thing out of your comment is that Jacob zuma is uneducated, the rest ill take is sarcasm!

      Watkykj - 2012-11-27 12:18

      You obviously don't know how a democracy works!

      mbasa.makubalo.7 - 2012-11-27 12:22

      @ Malan don't worry Mugabe the most educated president in the world is a fone call away.Come second term zuma can use some advise from him so he can get some respect.

      asdhasgd - 2012-11-27 12:31

      Classic example of an undying ANC sheep supporter. Doesnt give a s**t what his government does but fully supports them. Why dony you just goto Nklandla, put a leash around your neck and say "Here you go Zuma, i'm your bitch"

      steve.ritchie.739 - 2012-11-27 12:32

      Mbasa, Zipper Zooommmer deserves about as much respect as a dog turd. At best, avoid standing in the mess.

      mbasa.makubalo.7 - 2012-11-27 12:39

      We voted ANC into power on free and fair elections.The ANC must govern our president elected by majority is being insulted every day by bias media or some idiots just because he uneducated and traditionalist.Is that democracy to you may be in europe this is africa.

      charl.malan.12 - 2012-11-27 12:40

      @mbasa.makubalo.7? I'm not gonna argue with a bath plug! You are about as useful as a c@ck flavored lolly pop, useless!

      mbasa.makubalo.7 - 2012-11-27 12:45

      @ opinionator? I'm not happy that the government has not give us our stolen land back but I'm patient enough,I know 1 day the ANC is going to deliver it just a matter of time.

      mbasa.makubalo.7 - 2012-11-27 12:56

      @ malan you can call me what ever you want but we both know the truth.The real issues.Have you ever ask your self why you love Mandela so much.

      charl.malan.12 - 2012-11-27 13:00

      @mbasa.makubalo.7 tell me, why did we love mandela so much?

      morris.khunou - 2012-11-27 13:10

      You know Mbaso, when this Bill was introduced for the first time I could'nt believe we never had one! A State like a family and business must have secrets to keep! The deliberate mis-information campaigns by enemies of the state has failed once again. I am yet to hear a genuine opposition to the bill. ANOTHER FAT LOSS FOR MAZIBUKO in less than a week! What an early christmast present, I am enjoying myself by the day!

      morris.khunou - 2012-11-27 13:14

      @ Steve at al> Name calling and insults will never win you any argument! Release yourself from this habbit! It is not helpful to you at all!

      mbasa.makubalo.7 - 2012-11-27 13:30

      @ malan For abandoning freedom charter preaching this rainbow nation myth to the world that does not exist but only exists in his head and Reconciliation which means nothing but black people `forgiving’ whites for 300 years of dispossession, humiliation and suffering.

      richard.hipkin - 2012-11-27 15:12

      Excuse these two, they have no clue do they?

      dl.moore.169 - 2012-11-27 20:16

      Mbasa, you and Morris are crazy if you don't see what is happening here. They first dissolve the Scorpions into an arm they can directly control and then slap this Bill on us to muddy transparency, and you think we're on the right track? Insulting the president every day in the media is exactly what freedom is about. It keeps leaders on their toes. Go take a look at American press and the endless criticism either the right or left media heaps on whoever the incumbent is to see how a healthy democracy works. That criticism stings, yes, and it either spurs the incumbent to change or he/she is out on his/her ear at the next election. Here, and everywhere else where greed is the order of the day, the incumbents are also stung by freely spoken criticism, but instead of it being a spur to change, they simply eradicate it from the constitution. No more free speech. And, Morris, this bill goes beyond state military and espionage secrets. It is, has been and always will be treasonous to reveal sensitive military data. That goes without saying. This bill, however, has a completely different agenda. One day when you get a knock on the door at 3AM because of something you posted online or told your friend who ran and told another friend who ran and told the local police, you will realize what we have all lost today.

      matimu.milwood - 2012-11-27 20:32


      phello.khiba - 2012-11-27 20:52

      iam not suprise by this, zuma,wnt 2 hide his corruption,let zuma go on,with his corrupt,leadership but they must bear,1 thing in mind,nothing last 4eva he must enjoy benefit of corruption,while it last.come 2014.

      mbasa.makubalo.7 - 2012-11-28 07:11

      @ dl.moore.169? calling some1 who doesn't share your opinion crazy is an insult,sorry I forgot you are just practicing your freedom.Moore can you differentiate between criticism and insult.I don't think so.The Scorpions had to be dissolved,it could not be trusted after it was used as the instrument to settle political scores by it former boss Leonard McCarthy and former NPA boss bulelani ngcuka.Judge Nicholson inferred in his judgment that there had been political interference by president thabo mbheki in the National Prosecuting Authority’s case against Zuma.The scopion had to go for national security sake.

  • neilpretorius83 - 2012-11-27 12:09

    Next step: Take this rubbish bill to the Constitutional Court and smash it once and for all. We don't need this ANC nonsense in our SA!

  • Brad - 2012-11-27 12:18

    The ConCourt judges are going to have a field day with this one. And the judges are not retiring fast enough for Showerhead to replace his stooges with.

  • Donkervlie - 2012-11-27 12:18

    This is fine ANC you go ahead with your steamroller tactics to protect your cadres. Our turn will come at the polls and if we cant get rid of you there then we will have to resort to use the tactics that got you into power. TIT FOR TAT we are going to remove the rat. You lied to us you guys are nothing but a commie dictatorship cementing your selves into power

  • glen.e.huysamer - 2012-11-27 12:18

    Soon we will be sitting with 'security forces' arresting people for all freaking 'reasons' as it was under the NATS.... followed by a long protracted freedom fighting war....

  • crystal.core.5 - 2012-11-27 12:20

    Disgusting: despite what they preach, the ANC have demonstrated that they do not care about the people or the constitution, only self enrichment, which comes at the expense of the nation's poorest and most vulnerable. The people of South Africa do not support the ANC in pushing thought this fascist and anti-constitutional piece of legislation. It was only designed so the most corrupt members of the ANC can cover-up their underhanded and fraudulent dealings, then jail whistle blowers, journalists and opposition who expose them at will. Today the ANC want to turn South Africa into a fascist police state. Following this bill will be secret police running amuck and good people going missing in the middle of the night for speaking out against it. This is another sad day for our 'democracy'. You get the government you deserve by voting for them South Africans!

  • george.olivier.56 - 2012-11-27 12:27

    Guess they enjoy going to court to be educated in democracy. You would think by now the message would have sunk in. STOP TRYING TO PROTECT THE THIEVES IN YOUR RANKS.

  • nigel.burgess.334 - 2012-11-27 12:29

    Another flat tyre for democracy. I wonder if their Votas realise what's happening and what the consequences are.

  • steve.ritchie.739 - 2012-11-27 12:35

    Time to start the next fight for freedom with a tax boycott.

  • Rhulani - 2012-11-27 12:41

    After the passing of this law(state of info bill) Zuma will be reacher that Billy Gates madoda, he want to do the final touches of making nkandla a city now,

      Alice - 2012-11-27 13:26

      Zuma is already a trillionaire.

  • Desilusionada - 2012-11-27 12:50

    That type of thing might have worked pre-94. Today only for those that have no access to cellphones and/or the internet will be affected. Until they get clever enough to start using the RICA info, and manipulating internet access and start, (on a much larger scale than currently), reading e-mails & SMSs and listening to calls. Which is when we are back where we started 18 years ago......