ANC fires back at Kasrils on info bill

2011-11-18 22:36

Cape Town - The ANC has accused former intelligence minister Ronnie Kasrils of wanting to rule the state security department "from the grave".

ANC spokesperson Jackson Mthembu said the party found his criticism on the Protection of State Security Bill strange.

"The African National Congress finds it strange and shocking that comrade Ronnie Kasrils... wants to rule the department... from the grave through his negative commentary on the Information Bill," he said in a statement.

"Comradede Kasrils failed to deal with the mess in the then department of intelligence, where he was a minister, which left us vulnerable to machinations of foreign spies, information peddlers, and espionage activities."

The ANC would have expected Kasrils, as a former minister and a member of the ANC, to have engaged the current minister Siyabonga Cwele, instead of "posing as a champion of civil society".

"We have done everything in our power not to respond to the ravings of comrade Ronnie Kasrils ever since he started on this route," Mthembu said.

"We always believed that he would find it appropriate to stop such unwarranted attacks on his government and contribute constructively to any matter in the public domain."

Mthembu said the ANC wrongly believed that Kasrils would desist from using the media to keep a public profile.

"It is quite clear that we were wrong in all these respects."

Mthembu urged Kasrils to come forward and make a constructive contribution to the department that he had led and to the country's security.

"It is our belief that if he prefers to engage with his ANC on this matter of importance, the security of state information, he will find the ANC and its government ready for such engagement," he said.

Earlier on Friday, Kasrils condemned as "disgraceful" Cwele's claim that opponents protesting against the bill were agents of foreign spies.

Cwele made the assertion during the debate on the bill in the National Assembly on Wednesday.

"This is precisely the mindset that I fear as a former minister of intelligence," Kasrils said.

"Consider the impact of such inflammatory statements on members of the intelligence services.

"They will be encouraged to adopt a mindset already noted for excessive secrecy, exaggerated fears, and paranoia. And they are the very officials who the bill entrusts with all the tasks under the bill once it becomes law."

Kasrils said he had proposed a public interest defence for a 2008 draft of the same bill, after consultations with journalists.

It was never tabled in Parliament, but was "scrapped by ruling party representatives at the committee stage after I resigned from government in September 2008", he said.

  • Cracker - 2011-11-18 22:56

    Something tells one that certain individuals in the ANC think we are all fools and/or juveniles.

      Jimmy - 2011-11-18 23:18

      Reminds one of the 'Rooi Gevaar' and all similar tactics adopted by police states around the world.

      John - 2011-11-18 23:39

      For a change Kasrils sides with South Africa against the ANC. It was Kasrils which arrived in SA as a KGB agent and told the ANC that they could show how to do a revolution, having done others elsewhere. Mandela and his clowns fall for Kasrils armed struggle, push Albert Sisulu aside, and learn and bable communist propaganda. Kasrils owes South Africa the truth: communist central control economies have failed in USSR, China, India, Cuba, and everywhere else. Just because it is called in SA the National Democratic Revolution it does not mean that it is any different, and it will fail again. South Africa does not have any ace in the sleeve that will enable SA to triumph where all the others have failed, from Stalin to Mugabe. Having introduced the evil communist fables to SA, Kasrils owes to the PEOPLE to repent, apologise, and expose their worldwide failure.

      Herman - 2011-11-19 00:02

      @John, whoa, just to get my mind into the right gear, are you saying the anc fell for a white guy selling them the biggest bs the world has ever seen, meening communism???

      Dave - 2011-11-19 09:27

      What are they frightened of ?.

      Kala - 2011-11-19 12:34

      "rule the state security department "from the grave"" I had no idea Ronnie was dead!

      Peter - 2011-11-19 17:01

      Well, most of their supporters are fools or juveniles - through deliberate entrenchment of ignorance by way of appaling education, and by witholding truth - which they also want to entrench via the Protection of Information Bill.

  • Neil - 2011-11-18 23:00

    The protection of State security Bill is strange in itself... hell, in the hands of a corrupt government, like our current one I really cant see any advantage to it at all. The fact alone that it even EXISTS is proof of the fact that ALL South-Africans need to be very concerned about their "freedom" in this country... Cross the self-serving ANC fat-cats now and you get a holiday in jail... :S

      Dave - 2011-11-19 09:30

      It is not a matter of for and against the ANC he like so many millions of people is against the Information Bill. But the ANC are taking it personally--WHY ?.

  • Kenjaymay - 2011-11-18 23:08

    Spies..What Spies?... this is South Africa and the only Spies here is Pierre Spies, the captain of the Blue Bulls!!!

      Herman - 2011-11-19 00:03

      hahahaha and hopefully a good one!

      Sean - 2011-11-19 00:41

      I reckon he doesn`t have a criminal record and he doesn`t steal , so he wouldn`t qualify to be in the ANC anyway :)

  • Thozi - 2011-11-18 23:23

    I have met a few number of ANC MPs who are absolutely opposed to the controversial Bill. Kasrils is not alone. Apart from those MPs, there are thousands of us who are just going to turn their backs on the ANC should this atrocious Bill go through. I really don't know when this government is ever going to pay any attention to the wishes of the S African majority.

      sibusiso.mpofu1 - 2011-11-21 13:30

      Thozi! The govt will pay attention when the majority stops paying attention on it! Let's not fool ourselves. This is not a government of the majority for the majority, by the majority! It was never the intention. Mandela never had that in mind when he and cronies signed the Sunset Clause. The majority was not consulted then, and now! This is just part of a decay process. And soon we shall be smelling the decay, then touching it, and having to stomach it!

  • TamaraSays - 2011-11-18 23:27

    Blah blah fishpaste. You all KNOW the info bill is as bad as what the nats got up to. I'd respect you more if you just admitted it 'we want to rob y'all blind, and not get caught out.' Right now, it's like insisting the sky is pink, when all you have to do is look out the window to see the truth. Idiots and criminals in government!

  • Sheik - 2011-11-18 23:32

    The ANC might be full of hot air, but the gene pool level is still very low. The comment of "from the grave" from Jackson Mthembu shows he is one short of a six pack. Please will someone explain "from the grave" to him.

      piet.strydom - 2011-11-18 23:52

      Somebody explain "metaphor" to Sheik....

      CALAMITYSA - 2011-11-19 09:25


  • Cracker - 2011-11-18 23:35

    If the ANC - or rather those individuals who pretend that they speak for the whole ANC and even the whole country - has a problem with Ronnie Kasrils' views as he expressed them, fine. Speak to those views and point out in what respects his opinions are wrong. No, they attack his person. What does it say? Kasrils is definitely not trying to rule from the grave. Kasrils is NOT AT ALL trying to rule. Whay should he? Why in fact should he try to defend himself prematurely? Now we suddenly hear of his inabilities. What crap! the ANC spokesperson is trying to spread. It has to be repeated here. The ANC is busy destroying itself at a remarkable rate. Few take them at their word. It will get worse. Anyway, people have long memories.

  • Ivan - 2011-11-18 23:35

    How can a serious spokesperson refer to `ravings` of another person? Jackson is clearly drunk again.

  • Cracker - 2011-11-18 23:58

    The more one considers what is being said by the ANC spokesperson about Ronnie Kasrils the more it makes less sense. Why on earth would Ronnnie Kasrils try to rule from whatever vantage point? He is OUT of politics. He doesn't need support for any reason whatsoever. He is in receipt of a guaranteed pension and has shown no desire to return to formal politics. The ANC is now embarking on a character assasination. Magtig!!! It is so obvious. Ronnie Kasrils is merely stating reservations about the Bill that most of us share. It is getting ugly. They ganged up against Julius Malema - many of us happy with that - and now they do it with Ronnie Kasrils. Are we perhaps really all that intent on having our cake and eat it? All this nonsense and the need to cover up started with plain corruption by the new elites. Now we are picking the bitter consequences. One after the other the elites have to cover their backsides. Marks my words - just a common sense observation - the day of reckoning will arrive. Long before the second coming of someone else.

      Van - 2011-11-19 00:05

      Tick tock tick tock

      Heinrich - 2011-11-19 07:48

      The ratchet. The winding up. The clock. The Spring.

  • Mantsho - 2011-11-19 00:05

    Jackson Mthembu shouldnt be where he is ,he should have gone a long time ago,he is a complete mess,For ANC,If this bill goes through they are going to loose a lots of votes.l have no doubt about that.

  • Phillie - 2011-11-19 00:32

    And how does it feel Mr Kasrils to be bitten in the ass and vilified by those whom you licked ass for almost all your life,did you really expect something different????

  • Grant - 2011-11-19 03:20

    I'll repeat the question I posted on a previous thread : As SA is not at war or fighting sanctions, why does the country need an info pretiction law? Methinks it will be used to prevent coruption being exposed.

  • Silvana - 2011-11-19 06:13

    Never liked Kasrils, but you go Ronnie!

  • Alva - 2011-11-19 06:32

    Good on Kasrils! ANC are getting their ducks in a row for cover-ups. What does Cwele know about intelligence? He did not even know his wife was a drug peddler.

  • Xavier7034 - 2011-11-19 07:10

    Ironically, it would appear that the boot is on the other foot for the ANC......they are "trying" to rule the country from the grave, but with little apparent success, except with the collection of taxes, which they go on to waste or steal it is a case of the pot calling the kettle black.....ooops...the case of the kettle calling the pot white?

  • Cheryl - 2011-11-19 07:24

    South Africa can win this battle against the ANC....there is no need for 'state secrets'.

  • africanwolf - 2011-11-19 07:30

    After SA opened the borders with all African states you can get spies per kilogram :). the problem is that there is nothing to spy on, but government corruption, therefore they want to push the bill, so we don't know who stole what.

  • Vegi - 2011-11-19 07:37

    CHERYL Which battle against the ANC. So you people are in a battle against the ANC. I see.

      Heinrich - 2011-11-19 08:19

      Vegi : What do you mean by "you people" ? The ANC has divided S.A. into two groups : The Government on the one side and the People of South Africa on the other. Just look around you and you will see the difference between a South African and an ANC "comrade". We will only start to know freedom and democracy once the Arrogance, Nepotism and Corruption is defeated.

      CALAMITYSA - 2011-11-19 12:02

      Vege(table) - It's the battle against the "Protection of State Security Bill". If you are not aware of it - read the article.

  • Vegi - 2011-11-19 07:43

    Kasrils is old and so his powers of thought have diminished accordingly, hence his unwarranted opposition to the Information Bill. He needs to concentrate on his retirement and not stress himself unnecessarily.

      Heinrich - 2011-11-19 08:24

      Vegi : In stead of attacking the person, please tell us why you think the PIB is necessary. Facts, please.

      Cracker - 2011-11-19 12:01

      Kasrils seems very sharp and of course concerned, Vegi. You don't even know him personally to judge his powers of thought.

  • Honest - 2011-11-19 07:58

    Jackson Mthembu is out of line !!

  • Butch - 2011-11-19 08:05

    Further attempt to cover looting an corruption

  • Ari - 2011-11-19 08:17

    Baby Jebus!! Does this fool ever think before he opens his mouth? Simply because Ronnie Kasrils has expressed reservations, he is accused of "raving" which is linked to "posing as a champion of civil society". So this is what the ANC actually thinks of anyone who is concerned about the effect legislation will have on civil society? They are simply dismissed as "ravers". There are times when I seriously wonder if I am dreaming. But then, as Betrand Russell is purported to have said: "Planet Earth is the lunatic asylum of the Universe - the problem is, the inmates are in charge . . ."

  • sefeddt - 2011-11-19 08:27

    "The ANC would have expected Kasrils, as a former minister and a member of the ANC, to have engaged the current minister Siyabonga Cwele, instead of "posing as a champion of civil society" That sums it up. The ANC believe the interests of the party is greater than the interests if the country.

      rory.short1 - 2011-11-19 08:59

      Absolutely, with such statements they reveal that their commitment is to themselves and not to you and me, civil society.

  • Sean.Nefdt - 2011-11-19 08:28

    The ANC as a party should be ashamed , go have a look at the Freedom Charter again , ANC seem to be implementing stuff that they were opposed to in the ANC policy documents of the Freedom Charter.

  • Trevor - 2011-11-19 08:37

    The ANC will fall, and that at the hand of there own people. Have they not learn a lesson of what is happening in the rest of the world? All they do is bicker about the smallest thing.

  • jeansjunkie - 2011-11-19 08:46

    "Comrade" is such an archaic soviet term from the 60's. Why do they still refer to that? It's synonymous with a communist era and yet they feel comfortable using it. Shows how backward the ANC are!

  • rory.short1 - 2011-11-19 08:54

    Criticism of a proposed course of action that provokes name calling and scaremongering by its proponents are sure signs that they do not want to reveal their real reasons for pursuing this course of action. We who lived through Apartheid know all about that kind of behaviour from members of the old National Party and it is tragic in the extreme to see the same behaviour emanating from members of the ANC which would like us to think that it rescued us from Apartheid.

  • See - 2011-11-19 09:04

    So the snake that Kasrils has served for so long has turned around to bite him. Maybe in his old age he will realise that he was wrong all the time. In just about everything.

  • Chris - 2011-11-19 10:22

    He's a member of civil society and has a civic DUTY to act on proposed legislation which he believes is bad. Once again the ANC caucus thinks it is the government, ruling rather than serving the people. What are you scared of Jackson?

  • brettcch - 2011-11-19 10:48

    This response by the ANC is simply astonishing.

      Heinrich - 2011-11-20 20:07

      Astonishing Nescient and Childish

  • Niki - 2011-11-19 13:19

    Even though I've rarely agreed with Kasrils politically, I've always seen him as someone true to his principles - while too many in power simply have no principles.

  • Rob - 2011-11-19 18:43

    This guy Mthembu's rantings read like the worst pantomimes from North Korea or Gdaffi's Lybia. On the other hand it does expose and discredits what he says. Just not worth the time to read it.

  • Hugh - 2011-11-21 11:37

    Its an indictment on the ANC when people like Kasrils and Gordimer slam their corrupt policies. What a useless bunch of thieves. May they rot in hell.

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