ANCYL must follow orders, Mantashe says

2012-02-16 22:47

Johannesburg - The ANC Youth League cannot disobey the decision to suspend its leader Julius Malema, ANC secretary general Gwede Mantashe said on Thursday.

"Once a decision is taken by a higher organ, it is binding on all lower organs, whether you think it is stupid or uninformed, it is a decision and it cannot be refused," he said.

Mantashe, who is also the chairman of the SA Communist Party, was speaking at a Young Communist League meeting at the University of Witwatersrand in Johannesburg.

He said the African National Congress Youth League that formed in 1944 represented a "body of opinion" in the ANC.

"You can't claim to be a body of opinion, you earn it. The youth league of 1944 had the intellectual capacity and analytical ability to influence the ANC to a particular direction."

He said the generational mix in the party was not the function of "birthdays", but rather one's contribution to the party.

"It is not a youth league that says move out, we have arrived," he said.

"You graduate into the structure of the mother body through your contribution, not because you say, 'it is our turn'."

He said the ANC suspended several members in the 60s and 70s after they disagreed with allowing non-Africans to join the party.

"They were expelled after six years. People ask, 'why so long to expell disruptive members?'. The ANC is an elephant that goes slow... we do not just expell."

Foreign tradition

Earlier in the day ANCYL deputy president Ronald Lamola said Malema would not be removed from his position by anyone but the structures of the league.

"It is only the internal process of the ANCYL that can decide to elect or un-elect leadership of the ANCYL," Lamola told reporters at Luthuli House in Johannesburg.

"The ANCYL will never agree that its leadership be subjected to unfair and unjust treatment or banished for narrow political purposes."

He said the "foreign tradition" of trying to remove leaders of elected league structures without consent had to be "nipped in the bud".

Malema, his spokesperson Floyd Shivambu, league secretary general Sandiso Magaqa, treasurer general Pule Mabe and deputy secretary general Kenetswe Mosenogi were found guilty, in November, of bringing the ANC into disrepute and of sowing division in the party, partly for making comments about regime change in Botswana.

Malema, who was found to have compared President Jacob Zuma unfavourably to his predecessor, Thabo Mbeki, was suspended for five years. Shivambu, who insulted a journalist, was suspended for three years.

Magaqa, who was found to have made derogatory and potentially defamatory statements about Public Enterprises Minister Malusi Gigaba, received an 18-month suspension, suspended for three years, on condition he apologise within five days of receiving the penalty or appealing against it.

On February 4, the ANC's appeals committee announced it had dismissed attempts by Malema, Shivambu, Magaqa and the others to have the guilty verdicts against them overturned.

Asked whether the ANCYL was distancing itself from the ANC by not complying with its sanctions, Lamola said it was not.

"There will never be a time when the ANCYL will operate outside of the ANC. We will always be an organisation within the ANC."

"There is no consistency of discipline in the ANC... there has been disrepute brought to the ANC by many amongst its leadership and there was no action that was taken," he said.

"We believe that the ANC carries an obligation to educate and guide the ANCYL on all critical policy issues and not persecute the leadership for articulating the policy of the ANCYL."

  • AyGeewils - 2012-02-16 22:52

    A band of hooligans and thieves - Orders - not likely ...

      Sean - 2012-02-16 23:19

      The ANC is already useless , but the ANCYL is the ``scum`` of the earth !!

      Ian - 2012-02-17 00:01

      They are too stupid to realise the tail has been wagging the dog for years!

      Pushka - 2012-02-17 01:00

      So,the ANC is probably now going to take six years to expell Julius?? "the ANC is like an elephant that goes slow"?? tell us something that we don't know Gwede, we all know just how slowly the ANC moves, hence the state of SA at the moment.

      Max - 2012-02-17 05:20

      @Pushka, I think you have hit the nail on the head, there is no going place for going slow in the modern world, things are changing to rapidly and some people cannot adjust hence the state of Africa and now South Africa.

      Jonathon - 2012-02-17 07:17

      I'd love to hear that slow elephant statement when it comes to service delivery lol!!

      Felix - 2012-02-17 07:41

      Putin the 'AlphaLemming'! :)

      iGeorge_S - 2012-02-17 08:04

      @Putin the "Alphadog" that is the problem, everyone just wants and demands and are not willing to do the work to get what they "want".

      procold2 - 2012-02-17 08:12

      @Putin, do really think we are woried about meeting the full force of the masses,cant wait buddy

      Felix - 2012-02-17 08:34

      @Putin, here you go. Street Address 2 Park Road Willows City Bloemfontein State / Province Free State Zip / Postal Code 9300

      NrGx - 2012-02-17 08:43

      "Once a decision is taken by a higher organ, it is binding on all lower organs"... yeah but it seems the majority think with the lower organ masquerading as the higher organ.

      karen.glautier - 2012-02-17 09:25

      Yeah, when the mouth swallows, the lower organs become full of s*@t. Lol

      Kent - 2012-02-17 09:35

      @ Pushka. More like a Chameleon.

  • kznshark - 2012-02-16 23:09

    ...can see Malema sitting pretty in his position for a long time to come...order and discipline has disappeared.

      miyo27 - 2012-02-17 09:36

      Malema gets chauffered around in a C63 AMG - R900,000. What's wrong with a horse and cart? He seems to think he is the saviour of the poor, so why not live like them instead of rubbing it in their face. dumba$$

  • Marcell - 2012-02-16 23:14

    And what is Gwede following, the gravy train?

      miyo27 - 2012-02-17 07:58

      Gwede's time is coming too! Just wait

      Gerhard - 2012-02-17 08:19

      How can Gwede be ANC secretary general and chairman of the SACP? Talk about a draadsitter.

  • Mboneni - 2012-02-16 23:22

    The ANC is disintegrating,because it is lead by people like Gwede Mantatshe who is a chairman of the South African Communist Party in contrast he is not expelling members of his party,but that of the ANC.Dual membership means dual life chances,because if the ANC dies Gwede Mantatshe will simply revive a lifeless SACP

      Sharon - 2012-02-17 06:44

      I don't think there is a lot of love lost between Gwede and Julius. If memory serves, Julius tried to have Gwede replaced, but seriously underestimated him, so his cunning plan failed. I suspect Gwede and many others would be really happy to see the back of him.

      Archie - 2012-02-17 07:30

      mboneni Its what i have been saying for years,the communist party controls the ANC and they push the communist ideology.I dont think 1%of the country has ever voted Communist

      Steve - 2012-02-17 08:02

      Well what other type of country nationalises it's industry only communism does this!...most of the western democtratic world moved away from this as a policy in the 70s/80s...

  • Scouter - 2012-02-16 23:22

    When I was an Officer I never felt the need to explain my order. It was just accepted.

      Scouter - 2012-02-16 23:38

      The British Empire started falling apart when the well educted officer class were robbed of their authority - a very politically incorrect statement, I know. Same thing happened to Shaka - argue that one if you will. Same dynamic though. SA would be better for the like of him still around.

      John - 2012-02-17 05:32

      As a boyscout chief you might need to answer to the parents enquiries from time to time. In which army you been as an officer? Clown!

  • Muzy - 2012-02-16 23:42

    the peoples party is now shapping itself torwards the next hundred years of existance with people who are and wil lbe selfless.

      Scouter - 2012-02-17 00:02

      Are you existing in the same world? Socialism died a cruel death, some years ago. Prepare to bow to your new Chinese master - not too far away for you. I think you might miss me in years to come. And you thought the white man was difficult to understand.

      John - 2012-02-17 05:53

      Your Majesty Scouter, How can you describe Chinese government? A socialist-oriented market economy or state-owned enterprises with an open-market economy? You don't even know what socialism stands for. ANC is too far from these terms. Maybe Suppa Duppa Scouter refers to his local experience....(as far he can see from his horse) Mr.Scouter definetly is not from our world.

      Gerhard - 2012-02-17 08:25

      John, definition of socialism: - 1.A political and economic theory of that advocates that the means of production, distribution, and exchange should be owned or regulated... 2.(in Marxist theory) A transitional social state between the overthrow of capitalism and the realization of communism. In summary, if you have a little bit more than your neighbor, you need to give it to him so that we are all equal. If you work hard and get paid, you need to give your lazy neighbor, who sits at home the whole day, half of your salary. Voila, socialism!!!, Enjoy it!! Or are you one of them that sits at home the whole day waiting for economic freedom?

  • MakaNyawuzenkukhu - 2012-02-17 00:10

    ANC must enforce discipline where necessary. In principle within an organised family it is clearly understood that there are no reasonable grounds where children can be seen vioalting the rights of their parents by trying to be ignorant and rebelious when told or advised for wrong doing.

      Scouter - 2012-02-17 00:21

      Pity you can't get your view exposed on a greater forum. If all would only see the light. Well put and well said. There are still some thinking people around who hang on to old values, after all MN.

      Chris - 2012-02-17 01:49

      Very true. I must admit, sometimes this "youngsters" in the YL seems like idiots the way the don't accept discipline and rant like spoiled brats if things don't go their way.

      MakaNyawuzenkukhu - 2012-02-17 18:06

      @Scouter........ thank you. just wonder how can we engage on empowering those who lack basic understanding of human values. @ Chris......agree with your views.

  • Whitty - 2012-02-17 00:28

    The message of the story is...If you fail to smack a child for love and for teaching them discipline you will be faced with the ANCYL in your house. They failed to discipline them from the beginning, what makes them think that they will listen to their non-sense? AND if they think that they are planning to mess-up our country,they must be prepared to face us not the ANC,BLOODY YOUTH LEAGUE.

      PB - 2012-02-17 08:08

      "There is no consistency of discipline in the ANC... and there was no action that was taken" EXACTLY THE REASON THERE ARE SO MANY F'D UP KIDS THESE DAYS. If you promised a kid punishment for repeated wrongdoing and you do not follow through the next time he does it again, you are breaking a promise to him, not so? The smooth working of the whole world is dependent on levels of discipline - each one of us is answerable to a higher level - and that includes the President who is supposed to answer to the people of South Africa. It is about time we followed through.

  • Scouter - 2012-02-17 00:30

    Bugger this .... get back to the Rabbit thread. Infinitely more entertaining than dwelling on the ANC's dithering. Malema is still hopping mad that a bunny and a loaf of bread has robbed him of the limelight.

  • thozi - 2012-02-17 00:37

    Just concerned that it may well be Mantashe who follows the ANCYL orders. I understand that they can hardly stand him and that they want to give him marching orders by the next elections. I won't mind though; a bubble mouth getting rid of an arrogant psycho! What's there to lose?

      Scouter - 2012-02-17 00:54

      Not much - he has done all of us a great diservice, Thozi. Despite what many black folk might think there are whole bunch of white people who love you and this country to bits. We just never found a way to say it.

      Mark - 2012-02-17 05:51

      Agree - Problem is that even Julius has more credibility than Mantashe.

      MakaNyawuzenkukhu - 2012-02-17 18:32

      Thozi...... what do you benefit from undermining the ability (wisdom) of grown ups? Under no normal circumstances that a human being like Mr Mantashe can be liked/loved by those who fail to understand that in life there are boundaries linked to the legislation which everyone is obliged to obey irrespectively. The only thing in this planet liked by everybody is money only.

  • Scouter - 2012-02-17 00:49

    In my day at school - this meant a caning and being sent down. We can only hope in this instance.

      miyo27 - 2012-02-17 09:43

      they'd much rather be drinking the cane at their never ending celebration parties.

  • Dan - 2012-02-17 01:23

    Juju cn be very glad that the ANC closed Quatro camp

  • Neil - 2012-02-17 01:27

    "Once a decision is taken by a higher organ, it is binding on all lower organs, whether you think it is stupid or uninformed, it is a decision and it cannot be refused," he said... Mantashe who as chairman of the SA Communist Party should follow his own advise. Mother Russia has given up on Communism as a bad idea so as a lower organ you must follow suit and cannot refuse.

      Mzamo - 2012-02-29 10:18

      @ Neil, You just painted that picture with a super bright colour even the blind can see it

  • Scouter - 2012-02-17 01:29

    SA ranks as the country one should most avoid doing business with. Reasons being corruption, relationship with other corrupt states and a lack of sustainable leadership. I didn't say this - the Business Intelligence web site did.

  • Sibonelo Sbo Nyathikazi - 2012-02-17 01:37

    The ANC should stop all this nonsense of 50 appeals nd mitigations with regards to malemas case... The guy is rebelious nd power drunk, thus he should b made as an egxample. U can't just walk in a meeting held with the president. That's like walking in ure parents bedroom whilst they having sex dn ask for something. Utter disrespect!

  • Pawel - 2012-02-17 03:01

    " a higher organ " classic...

      Nigel - 2012-02-17 13:07

      speaking of organs ...if the ANC is the heart , Jm would be the bowl

  • Azwihangwisi Mphaphuli - 2012-02-17 05:15

    It was Malema (ANCYL) who pushed for the removal of the former president Thabo Mbeki. Malema should have known that what goes around comes around. He must shut his big mouth and go back to school

      miyo27 - 2012-02-17 09:44

      he should first build a wooden cart and be towed by a donkey. The only way he will learn is to be lead by something that has more intelligence than he does.

      Newsreader - 2012-02-17 09:50

      dont be silly, he failed woodwork!

  • Roy - 2012-02-17 05:16

    What a bunch of uneducated morons these ANCYL people are and this includes Matashe who acts to impress them. The ANC should disband the "youth" league if it is possible because like the ANC they are there to enrich themselves.

      Newsreader - 2012-02-17 09:52

      thats like trying to disband flies around a turd.

  • enyembe1 - 2012-02-17 05:23

    we alredy loosing hope on ANCbecause you keep on fighting among yourselves insted of delivering services to poor people trusted you and put you on power but you doing nothing for them come election time you need their vote.

      Nigel - 2012-02-17 13:09

      agree 100%, its a pity the voting masses don't think like you.

  • raymond.kok3 - 2012-02-17 05:25

    once again a case of the tail wagging the dog please accept it there is no, never was there or ever shall be any order in the so called youth league it just a kindergarden for adults that refuse to grow up. what does a normal day in the life of members of the youth league consists of.are they not suppose to educate the youth and give them structure or is not within their portfolio it seems that for them its a big chess game between the them and the other useless bunch and yet they get paid for it ,what a waste of space

  • sefeddt - 2012-02-17 05:25

    Surely additional charges must now be brought against the ANCYL leaders, they are defying the main body ANC at every turn. However i fear by the time the charges are lodged, heard, appealed, etc it will be the next century.

  • jannie.beirowski - 2012-02-17 05:25

    If Malema is so unhappy with the thinking and actions, or non-actions of his higher organ, why does he not step out and form his own party? May it be because he knows his backing is very little and just a few noise-makers who will not survive in an election? Is he hoping to get the silent vote of the established voters of the ANC by them supporting the ANC and thereby supporting him? It makes you think, does it not?

  • brionyl.french - 2012-02-17 05:36

    Starting to look like they need to literally go back to the drawing board... this whole party like a company needs to be re-structured and maybe look at how it can control its Youth... We never hear of any other Youth league why is this one so loud?

      Schmee - 2012-02-17 08:50

      This one is so loud because the idiot is so entertaining. We are the ones that are allowing him the airtime because humans are funny that way, they like a little melodrama and lots of entertainment. If the other youth leagues were this entertaining they would also have airtime. Thankfully they are more civilised.

      Newsreader - 2012-02-17 09:58

      Actually Schmee, he is the best they have!

  • Walter - 2012-02-17 06:10

    I'm afraid Mantashe's statement that the ANC "moves slowly like an elephant" typifies their performances as leaders of our Government in failing to act and react with their decision making........ rhino poaching for example! Let's change this government as soon as possible or our beloved SA will become another laughing stock of the world - like Zimbabwe.

  • Lavida Koekemoer - 2012-02-17 06:22

    U must remember dat ur slowness paralyses d country n people r loosing confidence day by day to d ruling party...

  • Orapeleng Molosiwa - 2012-02-17 06:35

    Mr Mantashe you are on your way out ,I see you getting scared ,it is normal...

  • Setso Ratlou - 2012-02-17 06:36

    whether or not the ANCYL refuses to obey any mother body instructions, ANC, they youth league operational decisions must also be taken into account, respected and be treated as such. This is not the youth league 1944 and they will never be. Mantatshe but never forget that ANCYL has its own Constitution and policies that run the league, why cant the ANC, as mother, take that into account and respect them?

  • masenya30 - 2012-02-17 06:45

    you can not compare 1960 and 2012 now ANC is in power and it is pushing the mandate of all citizen not only its members there fore consider the point that come from the youth as well Gwede must go slow on this agenda of expelling leader of young lions

  • thabiso.motsoeneng1 - 2012-02-17 06:48

    there is high level of political misunderstanding within th ANCL leadership, they do not actually understand the tradition and cultuture of the organisation. they do mot simply undertand that ANCL operates within the womb of the ANC and can not therefore behave as if is an independent body outside the policies and principles of the organisation. they can not even comprehend that charges brought against them are not about nationalisation but about their behaviour which is contrary to the discipline within the movement, Dali Mpofu should do better in advising them accordingly but anway he has never won any major case what do i therefore expect from him

      Archie - 2012-02-17 07:53

      When the child becomes uncontrollable the parents are to blame. the answer is simple, strict disipline applied timeousely.(excuse my spelling)Boundaries are laid out and must be obeyed other wise expulsion must be swiftly metered out.

  • Mary - 2012-02-17 06:55

    Just think what a force the ANCYL could be if they had a dynamic leader with common sense and no corruption. Surely somebody like that exists?

      trix.duvenage - 2012-02-17 08:51

      Archie and Mary:This "child' happens to be 'children' and it in fact means a LOT OF CHILDREN and as it is, a lot of children that have been ill-informed by an ill leader. This combination could prove to be VERY PROBLEMATIC in a coutry like South Africa where the 'majority' believe 'mass action' is the only solution to ALL problems. All we need in this country at the moment [considering the world recession that has a BAD influence on US at the moment]is conflict between ourselves. The perfect scenario to chaos under the circumstances is to create an environment of conflict with the youths. Considering LONDON a few months ago, these conditions can cripple the country in no time. Yes... it would be perfect to have the youth under proper leadership and NO I do not think Julius will EVER achieve it without help. The ANC needs to FORCE him to get education but leave him in the chair at least until the courts have decided what should happen about his fraudulent contracts etc. To have the COURTS 'getting rid of him' will make it easier on the ANC and it should shift the 'blame for his riddance' in another direction

  • Shane - 2012-02-17 07:01

    Ha Ha Ha, which organ is the ANC and which organ is the YL.?

      Dean Hart - 2012-02-17 07:18

      Lara - 2012-02-17 07:26

      Whose organ is bigger?

      Nigel - 2012-02-17 13:11

      If ANC = the heart, the YL is the bowel

  • malcolm - 2012-02-17 07:10

    "ANC is an elephant that goes slow... we do not just expell." Well they sure got that right. Discipline, housing, bucket system, economic growth. All the things that need to go foward, are taking so slow that they are going backwards. The only thing that moves faster than a Ferrari in the ANC, is increased levels of corruption, nepotism & blatant incompetence. The ANC have caused more misery, death and mayhem for their own people than the apartheid regime was ever capable of.

  • pws69 - 2012-02-17 07:13

    The ANCYL and ANC have just adopted a new anthem. Let's sing it all together now: Well we know where we're goin' But we don't know where we've been Fnd we know what we're knowin' But we can't say what we've seen And we're not little children And we know what we want And the future is certain Give us time to work it out We're on a ride to nowhere Come on inside Takin' that ride to nowhere We'll take that ride I'm feelin' okay this mornin' And you know, We're on the road to paradise Here we go, here we go [CHORUS] Maybe you wonder where you are I don't care Here is where time is on our side Take you there...take you there We're on a road to nowhere We're on a road to nowhere We're on a road to nowhere There's a city in my mind Come along and take that ride and it's all right, baby, it's all right And it's very far away But it's growing day by day And it's all right, baby, it's all right Would you like to come along And to help me sing this song And it's all right, baby, it's all right They can tell you what to do But they'll make a fool of you And it's all right, baby, it's all right We're on a road to nowhere Talking Heads (even the band name says it all) :-)

  • J.D. - 2012-02-17 07:17

    The "yoof leek" must give the anc all the hell they possibly can so that the anc learn "nevva" to allow such a snake nest to grow again.

  • Ashley - 2012-02-17 07:25

    "The ANC is an elephant that goes slow..." In everything that they do!

  • Archie - 2012-02-17 07:44

    ANCYL is the vehicle which delivers the next generation of ANC politicians.where else will the come from.Its a training ground for self enrichment/corruption/civil disobediance and zero productivity.SAY NO MORE!

  • malcolm.dale - 2012-02-17 07:48

    Talkng of organs -remember the old story of "the brain", "the stomach" and "the a..ehole" arguing who was "the boss" of the body? Well the brain said it controlled all the functions of the body and with which life would not exist, and it was therefore the boss. The stomach contended that through it's feeding the body it was the boss. The a..ehole submitted that as it passed all the excretia and kept channels clean it was the boss. The inevitable happened and the a..ehole went on strike (as is usual in South African situations). After a day or two the brain lost it's power of concentration and became dizzy and woozy and ineffective and the stomach suffered a debilating sewage back up and severe cramping. Reaching a position of no return both the brain and the stomach capitulated and said to the a..ehole " OK! OK! you win" So it goes to prove that you don't have to be a brain or have the guts to be a boss - just an a..ehole!! Go Juju! You go laddie!! You be the boss!!!

      Singatha - 2012-02-17 08:49


  • tacod - 2012-02-17 07:55

    Here the ANC speaks with fork tongue, It claims that it is an all inclusive party from the founding days in 1912, yet "He said the ANC suspended several members in the 60s and 70s after they disagreed with allowing non-Africans to join the party." The ANC has lost all credibility as they are unable to enforce the authority of the organ. It would seem that they encouraged ill discipline during the years prior to 1994, and now that the ill discipline is aimed directly at them as the ruling party. The problem with the ANC is that they move like "elephants" in their actions too, that is why the country that need to move fast to exist is falling apart and the ones that think faster that the main organ steal and plunder the tax funds.

  • Schmee - 2012-02-17 07:59

    Never underestimate the power of stupid people in large groups.

  • Garth - 2012-02-17 08:03

    "Once a decision is taken by a higher organ, it is binding on all lower organs,'. These clowns are hilarious. So the Brain tells the Penis that it must stand down, but it has seen the delights before it and having feasted on the sweetness of office, will not allow de-tumescence until sated, hoping that a bout of Priapism will maintain its tenure? Is that about the sum of it, useless, worthless anc?

  • Carl - 2012-02-17 08:42

    With an idiot like gwede around its no wonder the ancyl is so naughty, they need strong leadership...

  • Nigel - 2012-02-17 09:09

    they won't listen, they are terrorists against their own people, just goes to show, they can't even get along with their own party, thats just how intolerant they are, driven by greed for money & power.

  • Dane - 2012-02-17 09:33

    "ANC is an elephant that goes slow"................You said it Mantashe! So basically we wont be expecting any kind of real change any time soon!

  • Nigel - 2012-02-17 13:18

    Cosatu - go on strike, ANC - go slow (like an elephant), SACP -no go, the ANCYL - just won't go (away)

  • Rebaone - 2012-02-17 13:38

    We don't have a ruling party anymore as it is controlled by the youth league

  • Morama - 2012-02-17 14:38

    it took ANC long time to get where they are today,the same as the minority who claims to know better but when you differ with them on this forum your comment get reported and deleted immediately but cz they are so stupid,someone will respond to your comment and at the end of the day this forum looks stupid....anyway the majority that put ANC into power will eventually come and this site would be like the current south africa!!! Please those who delete my comments,u must just know that u must enjoy it cz it's not gonna last.just like as apartheid!!

  • Morama - 2012-02-17 14:42

    what's the point of having the people that has the same stupid mentality which would take them nowhere but just to appease themselves in this forum?Grow up and smell the cofee,u surely know that you are appeasing yourself on this site,no wonder we only seeing the spamming comments like old idiot John with his copy and pasting!!!

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