ANCYL silent on hate speech ruling

2011-09-12 13:25

Johannesburg - ANC Youth League president Julius Malema lost his second hate speech case on Monday as South Gauteng High Court Judge Collin Lamont declared the words "shoot the boer" to be hate speech.

Malema was not present for the judgment, and his spokesperson Floyd Shivambu would not comment on the judgment or say where Malema was.

"No we are not speaking," he said as he and other league members set off for a small court consultation room.

From the public gallery someone muttered: "Oh well they might as well ban everything."

Lamont found that the words "dubhula ibhunu", and "baya raypha" (they rape) were hate speech and should not be sung in public or private.


AfriForum CEO Kallie Kriel said: "We are elated about the judgment as we knew all along that this was hate speech."

He said the ruling a victory for the concept of mutual respect and dignity in communities over what he described as the culture of disrespect Malema was sowing.

"Should he try to take this on appeal, we will take this matter on. We have beaten him twice in court already," Kriel said.

- Were you there? Send us your eyewitness accounts and photos

  • Jynxd - 2011-09-12 13:33

    Thank you Judge Lamont for upholding the constitution.

      claudevn - 2011-09-12 13:37

      Indeed... Give the man a BELLS?!?! lol

      karlkat - 2011-09-12 13:40

      We still have people with insight, vision and know what's best for this country at the helm

      O-Kay - 2011-09-12 13:55

      Really JohnnyBB, a 'black' racist, how is he different from a, say, 'white' racist???

      Zelios - 2011-09-12 14:13

      @O-Kay. Are you seriously trying to go down that road? It's the same thing as saying that he is a German racist, American racist, female racist, Indian racist, white racist, Chinese racist. What is the difference between all of these? Well they either stem from different geographical locations, they have a different skin tone, they are physically different or they of a different sex. I'm pretty sure you can understand that. It doesn't really matter. People get so uptight when people say a black, white or coloured and then follow it with a noun such as racist. People who perpetuate that sort of nonsense prolong the existence of racism.

      O-Kay - 2011-09-12 14:32

      @Zelios, you are missing the point completely. If he has to call Malema a 'black' racist, that automatically makes JohnnyBB a racist as well. There is no need to point out his skin colour. We are all very aware of Malema's skin colour, therefore JohnnyBB could have said, you stupid racist, which would have been sufficient. I don't know why I'm bothering, you obviously didn't even notice that JohnnyBB immediately puts himself into the same category as Malema by mentioning skin colour!

      John Right - 2011-09-12 15:52

      Bobejaan klim die berg. So hastig en so lastig, bobejaan klim die berg om die boere te vererg ...

      Jaydee64 - 2011-09-12 21:02

      Well said..

  • DW - 2011-09-12 13:33

    So where is all the bluster now? The promises that they would win? The loud mouths and racial slurs? Think maybe Floyd is running scared? Too scared to say anything ahead of his disciplinary outcome tomorrow? I think he is hoping for a slap on the wrist for himself (a suspended sentence like Malema had last year). That way, when Malema is booted out, he can step into his shoes and become the leader of the ANCYL. Mark my words, this is what is behind his silence.

  • vtowntekkie - 2011-09-12 13:33

    Good!Lets see if they keep to it!!!

      BigD - 2011-09-12 13:53

      let us hope he does not. Then he will be in court again.

  • Pixie1984 - 2011-09-12 13:35

    KWA KWA KWA Malema! All together now HA HA HA HA!

      Vullis - 2011-09-12 14:06

      uh, no.

  • frans.visserdsb - 2011-09-12 13:35

    this song belongs in the same rubbish bin as the K word and apartheid... it is part of the past, and we should be striving to move forward as a nation...this song does not contribute to nation building or reconciliation, just like the K-word. The difference is - nobody is going to court to try to justify using the K-word...

      Nkalakatha - 2011-09-12 13:55

      So very true Frans !!

      The ABG - 2011-09-12 14:34

      Well said.

      Sandy - 2011-09-12 14:40


      TheSpear - 2011-09-12 14:42

      The song is in the past, and should have been understood in that context. There was no need for this court, but I guess, the law is busy re-writing our history, criminalising an ordinory struggle song,take us nowhere, tand the poor judge should have known better, but I huess he knows what will happen to him if the media, and the opposition parties were to be against him, Ask judge Nicholson. while chances are we might see the old flag during this rugby celebration, and people will start to talk about their legacy, why can't there be tolarant of different political views as a base, if indeed we did reconcile, or didn't we?

      ~daisy_d~ - 2011-09-12 15:02

      @ TheSpear: how would you feel if whites started singing songs to kill the blacks, they are rapists? I would imagine that you'd be in the front lines shouting that whites being racist...Malema's followers tend to adhere to what he says, regardless of whether it's right or wrong. Some of his uneducated followers might actually action what they sing, thus the uproar. Having an old SA flag at the rugby won't incite genocide - singing a song to kill will...

  • BRONZE - 2011-09-12 13:36

    You mean to tell me that for once the Youth League or its spokesperson has NOTHING to say?! (gasps with shock) Someone has actually succeedded in shutting them up! Even if it lasts for a minute, but this minute I will cherish for a long time.

      mokgosi - 2011-09-12 14:38

      it would seem they have been silenced

      Jacqueline - 2011-09-12 16:36

      That's a first.

  • Willie_G - 2011-09-12 13:37

    Silent for now but DEFINATELY not done.. Round two awaits and racial polarisation will only be aggravated

      Philip Beukes - 2011-09-12 13:46

      "We have beaten him twice in court already," Kriel said. This was round two!

      Willie_G - 2011-09-12 14:13

      Thank you for noticing something completely irrelevant and useless. The fact remains that the ANCYL will prove their defiance in the name of struggle history. Regardless what round it may be, we as citizens of this country would be fools for thinking that a judgement on a case will ensure compliance by those advocating racial polarisation and demagogues relying on populist rhetoric to maintain a support base..

  • Hunky_Dory - 2011-09-12 13:38

    Cowering away Jelly tot?

      KarenC - 2011-09-12 14:35

      Hey be nice to jelly tots.. they are my favourite sweet.. while JujU is not!

  • Rover_ZA - 2011-09-12 13:41

    As good as this ruling is, it'll only stop the "top dogs" singing it. I can't see any way to enforce this amongst the general population. - 2011-09-12 13:46

      So what now? Is there any punishment for uttering Racial Slurs? More to the point will anyone be "brave enough" to hang this one around Mr. Malemas neck and stick to it? NO SPECIAL TREATMENT PLEASE. One law and rule for us all.

      Daemos1 - 2011-09-12 14:15

      The point is to ensure opinion leaders don't encourage the singing of the song, that's all we can expect of the court

  • tut - 2011-09-12 13:41

    The law has just given Malema a huge middle finger. Common decency prevails over uncommon indecency i.e the ANCYL

  • Slapper - 2011-09-12 13:42

    Where to now with Juju? I doubt that he will remain silent. The Clown does not know when to stop.

  • Mark Singh - 2011-09-12 13:43

    Please let his punishment involve jail time...not a suspended sentence, no fines, plain and simple jail time! Finding him just guilty with a rap on the knuckles is not good enough

      happycamper - 2011-09-12 13:49

      jail time will only make him more eligible for president

      happycamper - 2011-09-12 13:58

      he should be banned from the ANC and Politics...period

      Nkalakatha - 2011-09-12 13:59

      Hare Mark, there will be civil war if they send him to jail !!

      DW - 2011-09-12 14:00

      No jail time in civil cases, as this one was. The Afriforum was just trying to get a legal ruling to stop the singing. Once a ruling like this is made it becomes applicable going forward and anyone defying it can THEN be arrested. I think Malema will have to pay some of the costs, though

  • Vela Stardust - 2011-09-12 13:47

    The net is closing in on Malema ! :-))))

  • MSGRule - 2011-09-12 13:48

    Town trashing is going to be immense at the trial.

  • SPIDY69 - 2011-09-12 13:49

    hahahahahahahaha you idiot but now what malema did not even come to the court thats the first sign he knew he would loss and who is paying all these court cases THE TAX PAYER get malema to pay this out of his family trust fund or sell the mansion is sandton or it

  • CalamitySA - 2011-09-12 13:51

    Why not rather love one another. I do try do make it possible for other people to love me. I know it must be tough. I could love Julius - if he makes it a bit easier for me.

      JosephMkhize - 2011-09-12 14:20


  • JH - 2011-09-12 13:52

    I do not know why do people actually get so excited about it? Does anybody think this ruling will stop the masses from singing this song? NO!! These people are very deliberate, tell them not to do it and now they will go out of their way to proof a point. They will ignite hatred even more now because off this.

      THE.SRG - 2011-09-12 14:02

      i agree

  • Dean - 2011-09-12 13:52

    just look at all those supporters who pitched up for him - and he wasnt even there. Bunch of idiot LOSERS!!! hahahah... and also i want to say, those people are so dedicated to him, but have no jobs. Thats why they can go there to support him because they dont need to be at work. Moral of the story, "it is more important to support my "brutha" julius, than to work and get food for money for my 16 children and 4 wives at home" ...e-yes...i am so clever and wise. ;)

      Allrightythen - 2011-09-12 14:39

      In a similar vein, the SABC decided to screen content for the masses, but the masses were not paying TV licenses so they end up begging the government for money. The followers of Julius are unemployed and uneducated so the ANC funds are being depleted moving them in busses, at some point the ANC too will realise they need to take from Peter to pay Paul. That is why I do belive that those that pay get to decide, get to vote and get the free stuff, those that do not contribute should not benefit.

  • Nkalakatha - 2011-09-12 13:52

    I have just seen Juju walking to a tree with a rope.....

      O-Kay - 2011-09-12 13:58

      Would we be so fortunate?

      mokgosi - 2011-09-12 14:41

      As if he would do something so noble and selfless

      Martin du Plessis - 2011-09-12 22:38

      And curse the tree for all eternity by having Juju's soul pass through the soil it's in on his way to hell? What did that tree do to ever hurt you so?

  • aviljoen1 - 2011-09-12 13:52

    at least someone is trying to save south africa from burying itself, there is justice after all and hope for south africa yet

  • Stacey000 - 2011-09-12 13:53

    I take my hat off to AfriForum - WELL DONE! and thank you

  • Who Knew - 2011-09-12 13:53

    ANCYL with nothing to say. That's a first.

      SPIDY69 - 2011-09-12 14:04

      no they cant believe there ears they are now going to call the judge racist

  • happycamper - 2011-09-12 13:53

    what you reap, that you'll sow. do to others what you would have them do to you throw enough mud at the wall, some of it will stick

      DW - 2011-09-12 14:38

      Actually that is "what you sow, that you'll reap". Just saying.

      Soapbox - 2011-09-12 16:24

      He who throws mud - looses ground

  • code - 2011-09-12 13:54

    A pity so much time and energy was spent on that which is blatently obvious to most sane members of society.

  • Cowgoesmoo - 2011-09-12 13:54

    Does anyone have any idea what sentence could be passed for this?

  • jeremy - 2011-09-12 13:55

    I support Judge Lamont's ruling, but I don't think it's a good idea to get too carried away by it. For many, the song is hugely significant as it symbolises the "revolution." I fully agree with Lamont's ruling that this country's so-called leaders shouldn't sing it in public. But to ban it entirely is stupid. It means too much to too many. Far more stupid, for instance, than banning the Beatles because Lennon said they were "more popular than Jesus!"

  • Rialine Steyn - 2011-09-12 13:55

    Big surprise on the silence. We all know Floyd cant operate if JuJu isn't yanking his chain... Besides, a court ruling wont stop him from singing whatever he wants. Asshole.

      Taurus 11 - 2011-09-12 14:25

      I have never heard it called a chain before

      Kenno - 2011-09-12 15:18

      Well it is a tiny chain!!

  • Braddle - 2011-09-12 13:56

    Owned!!! X 2

  • sahiphopmixtapes - 2011-09-12 13:56

    Great ruling now what about Gregg Scott's utterance

      O-Kay - 2011-09-12 14:01

      Who is Greg Scott??? Umm, maybe you mean Darren Scott... the man who apologised profusely and repeatedly. No-one had to drag him to court to try convince him he was wrong. Even now Julius will never apologise or admit he erred. It's simple really one has character! (and it's not Julius)

      Bobby Rosewood - 2011-09-12 14:08

      You want to sue him then? Someone first has too,see? Difference is that Mr Scott has apologized to his victim, to his employer and to the public, while Mr Malema thinks its fine to offend and verbally abuse everyone he can think of, continually, without any remorse.

      Taurus 11 - 2011-09-12 14:29

      Why? Africa accepted Darren Scott's apologyIt takes real men First to apologise and also to accept the apology. Much more than Jellyass and his moronic underpants(supporters)

  • Face - 2011-09-12 13:56

    Great - New Hollywood release- Soon!!! Silence of the goats!

  • (YNPL) Youth in need of a proper leader - 2011-09-12 13:57

    And the punishment is that the song?

  • Anton - 2011-09-12 13:57

    vat so vuilgoed

  • Sammy - 2011-09-12 13:58

    LOL like naughty children who just got a good hiding! Now they gonna turn around with tears in their eyes and scream some obscene things like "I hate you"... BLA BLA BLA @ ANCYL!

  • Turd - 2011-09-12 13:58

    I can understand why they say it is part of their struggle and that they want to sing the song. I also struggle with the stupidity and arrogance and I also want to utter a few nice words. The difference is that my words does not encourage others to murder and rob and rape. Malema, I have an opening for some work in my sewage plant.......

  • ColinJo - 2011-09-12 13:58

    "No we are not speaking," They are learning. Children should be seen and not heard!.

  • Lebohang - 2011-09-12 13:59

    It’s within human nature to look out for our interests, when it suits us we discriminate, and when we are under threat we hide behind the words transformation and democracy, this minority will always discriminate us, they’ve master-minded and properly orchestrated it and now that their fingers are burning they preach a different gospel.

      KarenC - 2011-09-12 14:41

      Just like the so called discriminated hide behind words such as 'apartheid' and 'struggle'?

  • Bernard Visagie. - 2011-09-12 14:02

    An ANCYL supporter would rather let the constitution be "amended" / destroyed than accept that Malema is sowing a culture of disrespect and should be fired.

  • Focus_St_2.5 - 2011-09-12 14:04

    Finally they have got nothing to say

  • Ross - 2011-09-12 14:04

    These characters don't distinguish between White English and White Afrikaans people we are all the same to them.

  • troybee - 2011-09-12 14:05

    this isn't over Malema dont give up easly. the guy has no fear, by the end of the day another Malema drama will arise...WATCH OUT!!!!

  • Face - 2011-09-12 14:06

    Baddy, vra asb om verskoning . Sies man!

  • Jaco - 2011-09-12 14:09

    Thanks Afriforum, a hand full of people with limited funds made this possible while most of us just complain on forums

  • JosephMkhize - 2011-09-12 14:10

    Sadly, our society has produced and ignorant and disrespectful youth. The ANCYL needs a leader that can give them back their dignity. Dignity can only come if you respect your neighbour.

      Pierre - 2011-09-12 22:35

      Thank you well said.

  • Brainvillage - 2011-09-12 14:12

    its funny how all the white individual of this country are very much incited about the decision ,we still have white racist people in our work places that believe that being racist its god given talent to them ,but when another person from a different race does that all hell break loss.u guys are the big fish and u will always be just like a leopard it never changes its spot.

      McFreak - 2011-09-12 14:16

      Read JosephMkize's posts please. That's the way we should all be thinking, unless you want a bloodbath and then the unstoppable destruction of this country.

      Face - 2011-09-12 14:22

      You don't get it - It's got nothing to do with Race - this is a "serias" matter which could cause our country to be ruined. 3 Million people did not united to contribute a change in SA for nothing. We are not going to let one brainless apple spoil the whole basket!!

      zena - 2011-09-12 14:53

      So why don't you start by making a difference, if you feel people are still racist, let it be there problem, and know that you are a better person. Personally i don't think you should just mention Whites, both parties are to blame. I am sure many of us feel the same way about Black racists, but the difference will be what we do to change it.

      mike - 2011-09-12 15:01

      it's funny that you are such a hypocrite and rabid racist - you have never met me and have not got a clue what I think

      Wends - 2011-09-12 15:03

      Shame brainvillage I feel so no sorry for you. Cross the bridge and get over it. Hahahahaha

      ruan.nell - 2011-09-12 16:09

      dude, wake up.......... this decision is clearly that justice has no race, its not wether you are white or black - pink or blue!!!!! we are all equal under lady justice.

  • 2WhiteStars - 2011-09-12 14:12

    It could be worse. Someone could have used the Danny K-word.

  • JosephMkhize - 2011-09-12 14:12

    even if you are angry at Malema, be careful that your comments here don't inflame others. At the end of the day my children will grow up with yours, so let's be grown-ups and act like the God - fearing people we should be

      McFreak - 2011-09-12 14:17

      Thank you Joseph. I agree that we should all behave with as much dignity as the judgement was given

      Derek - 2011-09-12 14:41

      Joseph, you are one of the guys that make our country great! I agree, let's stop the inflammatory nonesense and reach out to each other. The ruling is a victory for sensible, positive South Africans of all races. Let's all work together to make a better place for our families.

      Ingie - 2011-09-12 14:51

      and that is????

      Ingie - 2011-09-12 14:51

      Its people like malema that brings back the hate and the racism

  • Rella - 2011-09-12 14:14

    well well well He is quick to sing a "stuggle song" but not to face the music?one of the 3 sentences in this song is "the cowards are scared" seems like this coward is scared.Just one question though,why is nothing being done to the crowds outside the court still singing it?

      ruan.nell - 2011-09-12 16:12

      I hope they put your comment in the news paper!!!! well said!

      KanaMay - 2011-09-13 09:47

      I take more issue with `baya raypha (they rape)'. I'm sorry to say that it's mainly the blacks who are raping their own women & kids (as well as their crime victims. After all during Apartheid, it was illegal for both races to consort with the opposite sex of another race.

      reader1 - 2011-09-13 09:55

      @KanaMay - Unfortunately the lyrics of the song is true. In the apartheid days a lot of farmers (not all...but a lot) - did "help themselves" to the young black women on the farms. Some of them did rape them. That is where the song comes from.

      reader1 - 2011-09-13 09:57

      They did not care that it was against the law. That is also where a lot of anger towards farmers stem from. By mother grew up on a farm in Kwa-Zulu Natal and she told me a lot of horror stories of what went on in those days. It is sad but true.

      daaivark - 2011-09-13 09:58

      What has consorting with another race have to do with anything? What are you driving at?

  • JosephMkhize - 2011-09-12 14:14

    My african brothers and sisters, hold on to the beautiful words and acts of the great reconcilor. Madiba laid the foundations of racial harmony. Who are we to dig it up and replace it with hate?

      zena - 2011-09-12 14:58

      We did it with the sport and it showed that we can live together and praise together, there will always be bad apples on both sides, but with the majority of us trying that will MAKE a difference.

  • Da.Liva.Delvira - 2011-09-12 14:14

    Any body still seen Sganja??? Hehehe...

      Sganja - 2011-09-12 14:28

      I'm back brother I was banned. I wish people can listen to what I'm trying to say rather than reporting me.....

      Face - 2011-09-12 14:39

      Sganja - People like JosephMkhize should be Youth Leaders!

      Trextoo - 2011-09-12 15:00

      @ Sganja. How did you get back? (I was about to start celebrating your absence). Did you hack your way in? Did you bribe someone? Or did you promise that you would obediently attend all your woodwork classes?

  • letsee - 2011-09-12 14:14

    Julius will say that the judge is unfit.